Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions

From	Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions
Date	2024-05-29 15:23 +0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20240529152325.000042e1@yahoo.com> (permalink)
References	(15 earlier) <v359f1$nknu$1@dont-email.me> <20240528232315.00006a58@yahoo.com> <v35qrg$qhnf$1@dont-email.me> <20240529123852.000026e4@yahoo.com> <v37386$148la$1@dont-email.me>

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On Wed, 29 May 2024 12:23:51 +0100
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 29/05/2024 10:38, Michael S wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 May 2024 00:54:23 +0100
> > bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> >   
> >>
> >> I suspect that your system just has a much faster fgetc
> >> implementation. How long does an fgetc() loop over a 100MB input
> >> take on your machine?
> >>
> >> On mine it's about 2 seconds on Windows, and 3.7 seconds on WSL.
> >> Using DMC, it's 0.65 seconds.
> >>  
> > 
> > Your suspicion proved incorrect, but it turned out to be pretty good
> > question!
> > 
> >   
> 
> > $ time ../quick_xxd/getc_test.exe uu.txt
> > 193426754 byte. xor sum 1.
> > 
> > real    0m3.604s
> > user    0m0.000s
> > sys     0m0.000s
> > 
> > 52 MB/s. Very very slow!  
> 
> I got these results for a 100MB input. All are optimised where
> possible:
> 
> mcc      1.9  seconds
> gcc      1.9
> tcc      1.95
> lccwin32 0.7
> DMC      0.7
> 
> The first three likely just use fgetc from msvcrt.dll. The other two 
> probably use their own libraries.
> 
> > So, may be, fgetc() is not at fault? May be, its OS and the crap
> > that the corporate IT adds on top of the OS?  
> 
> 
> 
> > Let's test this hipothesys.  
> 
> > $ time ../quick_xxd/fread_test.exe uu.txt
> > 193426754 byte. xor sum 1.
> > 
> > real    0m0.094s
> > user    0m0.000s
> > sys     0m0.000s  
> 
> I get these results:
> 
> mcc      0.25 seconds
> gcc      0.25
> tcc      0.35
> lccwin32 0.35
> DMC      0.3
> 
> All are repeated runs of the same file, so all timings likely used 
> cached version of the data file.
> 
> Most of my tests assume that since (1) I don't know how to to do a 
> 'cold' load without restarting my machines; (2) in real applications 
> such as compilers the same files are repeatedly processed anyway, eg. 
> you're compiling the file you've just edited, or just downloaded, or 
> just copied...
> 
> > So, let's rewrite our tiny app with fread().  
> 
> > real    0m0.577s
> > user    0m0.000s
> > sys     0m0.000s
> > 
> > 152.8 MB/s. That's much better. Some people would even say that it
> > is good enough.  
> 
> I now get:
> 
> mcc      2.3 seconds
> gcc      1.6
> tcc      2.3
> lccwin32 2.9
> DMC      2.9
>

Mine was with MSVC from VS2019. gcc on msys2 (ucrt64 variant) should be
identical.
I wonder why your results are so much slower than mine. 
Slow write speed of SSD or slow CPU?

> You might remember that the last revised version of your test,
> compiled with gcc, took 3.6 seconds, of which 2 seconds was reading
> the file a byte at a time took 2 seconds.
> 
> By using a 128KB buffer, you get most of the benefits of reading the 
> whole file at once

I hope so.

> (it just lacks the simplicity).

The simplicity in your case is due to complexity of figuring out the
size of the file and of memory allocation and of handling potential
failure of memory allocation all hidden within run-time library of your
language.
And even despite all the upfront work that went into your
infrastructure, it probably would not be able to deal with big files on
32-bit system.
Yes, I know, 32-bit compiler would not be able to compile the resulting
big include anyway. But still...

> So nearly all of that 2 seconds is saved.
> 
> 3.6 - 2.0 is 1.6, pretty much the timing here.
> 
> 
>  >Two hours later it turned out to be completely incorrect. That is,
>  >the  
> time was spent in routine related to I/O, but in the 'soft' part of it
> rather than in the I/O itself.
> 
> You don't count time spent within file-functions as I/O? To me 'I/O'
> is whatever happens the other side of those f* functions, including 
> whatever poor buffering strategies they could be using.
> 
> Because 'fgetc' could also have been implemented using a 128KB buffer 
> instead of 512 bytes or whatever it uses.
> 
> I discovered the poor qualities of fgetc many years ago and generally 
> avoid it; it seems you've only just realised its problems.
> 

Octet-by-octet processing of big files is not how I earn butter to put
on my bread.
When I write this sort of utilities for real work, the size of the
input is not arbitrary. Typically I deal with small files (small
relatively to memory capacity of target machines, so 100 MB is still
considered small). So for real work more often than not I use the same
strategy as your did in the program in your language.

> BTW I also tweaked the code in my own-language version of the
> benchmark. (I also ported it to C, but that version got accidentally
> deleted). The fastest timing of this test is now 1.65 seconds.
> 
> If I comment out the 'fwrite' call, the timing becomes 0.7 seconds,
> of which 50ms is reading in the file, leaving 0.65 seconds.
> 
> So the I/O in this case accounts for 1.0 seconds of the 1.65 seconds 
> runtime, so when I said:
> 
>  >I think runtime is still primarily spent in I/O.  
> 
> That was actually correct.
> 

That was incorrect for the previous variant of my program. 
Quite likely, it was correct for the program in your language that was
loading a full file before processing. 
Quite likely it is correct for my latest variant.
Pay attention how I remember to avoid categorical statements ;-)

> If I comment out the 'fwrite' calls in your program, the runtime
> reduces to 0.2 seconds, so it is even more correct in that case. Or
> is 'fwrite' a 'soft' I/O call too?
> 

I think not (on my test gear), but I no longer know.
However I suspect that on Linux with plenty of memory the program could
return before even a single byte of output data was sent to SSD.

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C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-22 18:55 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:42 -0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-22 22:11 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 17:26 -0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 14:17 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:38 -0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 17:08 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:06 -0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:11 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:21 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:49 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 11:03 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:17 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:45 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:06 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 13:19 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 21:27 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:46 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 08:33 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 16:51 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:34 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:05 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 08:19 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 02:09 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 15:01 -0300
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 15:53 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:21 -0300
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-23 13:11 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:43 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:19 +0200
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:25 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:06 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 15:45 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:29 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:11 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:58 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 13:09 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 12:51 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 16:18 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 16:25 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 19:35 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 19:01 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:26 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 22:27 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:19 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:06 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:49 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:54 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 11:10 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:59 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 22:52 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:20 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-27 11:05 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 10:12 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:17 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 13:42 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:33 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 13:52 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:21 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 23:37 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:02 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 00:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:59 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 15:42 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:44 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 05:36 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 15:53 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:44 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-27 01:55 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 02:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-27 14:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 02:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 11:30 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-29 04:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 06:00 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 13:58 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 17:20 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-30 02:32 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 11:09 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 13:43 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-01 01:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 14:34 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 17:08 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 15:48 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 18:03 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 13:55 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:19 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:28 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:48 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 15:04 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 17:34 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 19:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-31 18:36 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 22:15 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 01:25 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:24 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 05:17 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:22 -0700
                objcopy -I binary etc... Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-06 14:56 +0300
                Re: objcopy -I binary etc... Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-06 07:44 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-01 22:51 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:24 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 19:59 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 04:00 +0000
                Re: Correct objcopy Usage (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 04:33 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-06-01 03:37 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:09 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-06-01 13:59 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:26 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 01:11 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-02 00:39 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 03:06 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-06 14:43 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-31 21:42 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-31 21:11 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-06-06 15:38 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-06 21:38 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 00:51 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-07 09:04 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:20 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 10:22 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-07 00:53 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 16:58 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-08 03:08 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-08 00:04 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 22:17 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-01 21:11 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:47 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 15:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-31 15:34 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 20:31 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 01:53 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:53 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 16:51 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 09:24 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 13:39 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 13:31 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 17:51 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-01 01:39 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:37 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:27 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-02 10:37 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 01:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 11:16 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:10 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-04 12:28 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 01:51 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-04 19:45 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-03 11:13 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:12 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-04 12:35 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 01:50 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-05 09:10 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 09:23 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-05 15:09 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-06 02:12 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-06 19:38 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-07 00:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-07 22:23 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-08 00:39 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-08 02:14 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-08 03:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 22:36 -0700
                xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 14:41 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 15:06 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 17:42 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 18:56 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 18:14 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 19:20 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 19:57 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 23:23 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 00:45 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 01:29 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 09:21 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 12:44 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 23:08 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 01:24 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-30 02:35 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 00:40 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 10:40 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 14:04 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 22:31 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-31 15:20 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-30 19:47 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:15 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 08:57 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:59 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 11:02 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-03 14:41 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:07 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 14:41 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 00:54 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:32 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 13:08 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 14:10 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:27 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 15:19 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 14:38 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:43 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 14:57 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:54 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 17:27 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 19:27 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-29 14:07 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 22:59 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 22:46 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 01:18 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 02:31 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 12:23 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:40 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:21 -0700
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 16:41 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 08:31 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 00:06 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 13:31 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 15:15 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 16:09 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 08:29 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 16:50 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-05-30 16:00 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 18:28 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:10 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 10:01 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 11:33 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 12:13 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 14:14 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:51 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:12 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 10:57 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 12:38 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 12:23 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:23 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 15:16 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 18:32 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 18:41 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 21:31 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:49 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 13:01 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:18 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 17:34 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 22:08 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 15:05 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 14:20 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 12:27 -0700
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 09:55 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 13:45 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 13:33 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 04:19 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 13:40 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 04:16 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 18:39 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:07 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 04:46 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 03:58 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 09:52 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-04 11:01 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 10:34 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-03 22:46 -0400
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:54 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 01:03 +0100
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:23 -0300
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 02:59 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 21:08 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 04:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 04:47 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 21:30 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 07:29 +0100
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 14:32 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:37 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:31 +0200
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-23 20:23 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:25 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 20:31 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:28 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 17:10 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:43 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 02:49 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 16:40 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:36 +0300
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:24 -0700
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:35 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:05 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:17 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:50 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 11:08 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 11:21 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:22 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 23:51 +0000
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 03:13 +0000
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:42 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-23 14:35 -0400
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:40 -0700
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 17:10 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:29 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:29 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:21 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:15 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:02 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:56 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 17:15 -0500
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 17:37 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 12:05 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-24 06:54 -0700
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 18:46 +0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-25 03:01 -0700
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 17:19 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 22:10 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 00:34 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 01:06 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 07:47 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:31 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 06:38 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 05:42 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 11:42 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 18:35 -0700
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 19:42 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 20:28 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 17:57 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-24 16:16 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 16:41 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 19:22 +0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-24 19:38 +0100
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 13:06 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-24 21:20 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:32 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:28 +0200
          Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:40 +0000
            Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:47 +0200
              Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:45 -0700
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:18 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 09:48 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:12 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 02:48 +0000
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 01:31 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-29 11:27 -0400
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:18 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 13:56 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:26 -0700
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-26 18:59 -0400
            Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:23 -0500
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:38 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 00:48 +0300
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 21:25 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:49 -0300
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 07:36 +0200
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-24 09:32 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:34 +0200
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 09:13 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:23 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 18:34 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 01:27 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 11:02 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 14:03 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 16:29 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 21:44 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 12:00 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 18:34 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 16:50 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 21:05 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 19:38 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 22:58 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 21:22 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-04 11:23 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:25 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 13:30 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 12:48 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 19:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 17:32 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:22 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 04:01 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-07 00:57 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 02:52 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:15 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-05 13:32 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-06-05 13:59 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-07 00:59 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:12 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 06:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-02 19:15 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 12:46 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:21 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 14:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:23 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 13:46 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 19:21 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 20:44 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-04 23:59 -0400
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 00:44 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-05 13:29 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 13:49 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 21:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:28 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 16:33 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:28 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-25 21:24 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 08:32 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 02:48 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 13:44 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 15:39 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 15:46 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 17:20 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:29 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 18:05 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:26 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 19:50 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 05:41 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 10:46 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 17:10 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 18:23 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 19:23 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:36 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 19:11 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:30 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 10:45 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 05:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:53 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-26 21:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-27 07:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:53 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-26 21:03 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 08:44 +0200
    Don't let the door hit you... (Was: C23 thoughts and opinions) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-05-23 19:58 +0000
      Re: Don't let the door hit you... (Was: C23 thoughts and opinions) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:35 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 17:55 -0500
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:30 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:29 +0000
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 23:31 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-06-02 13:24 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-06-02 16:51 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-02 19:52 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 12:01 +0300
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:31 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:02 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-06-03 21:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:36 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 14:47 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-03 23:43 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 16:23 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:47 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:47 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:25 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:29 -0700
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 21:35 -0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:05 -0500

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