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Re: OT: totally off-topic

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On Thu, 10 Apr 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

>> True. My usenet/mailinglist debt is starting to grow. I have become
>> involved in way too detailed and deep interesting conversations, and
>> they are starting to take their toll. =(
>
> I think I saw some of your chats on rec.food.cooking.  You gotta get
> outta there.  That group is crazy and the volume, insane.

Oh yes, it takes great skill and loads of time to keep up with the flow there.
Perhaps too much time. =(

At the same time, some in that group elevate trolling to a very sublime art
form! I've had close to spiritual experiences reading some of that beautiful
trolling there. =D

But yes, I am currently on vacation, so I think once I get back into it,
probably the best course of action is just to delete everything and start from
scratch.

>>> I don't think we can.  That would mean that a point can change the
>>> uniform average.  We could do something if we go from a uniform average
>>> to a weighted one and we somehow acquire the huge weight.  Nah.  I don't
>>> think there's true change that way.  I don't think we can change the
>>> world.  I don't think we should change the world.  Let nature follow its
>>> own course.
>>
>> What if it is in my nature to change the world? Then that would be nature
>> following its own course. ;)
>>
>> The biggest change can start with the smallest idea!
>
> Today I watched the documentary series called
>
>  The Century of the Self
>
> It's a good illustration of people mean by ``change'' in the world. :)

Excellent documentary! Maybe I should re-watch it. It's been a couple of years
since I last saw it.

>>> Should a 4-leaf clover try to make every other a 4-leaf one?
>>
>> Yes!
>
> Lol.  Speechless. :)

;)


>> As we discussed above, I think a house in the country side, deep
>> inside the forest would be the ideal place for me!
>
> Sounds very interesting.

Yes! But let's see. It needs to be far away. The trick is convincing the wife
who does need culture and things to do. ;)

>> Ah, you mean modern analytical philosophy? ;) Pick up a book on
>> metaphysics and marvel at the nonsense! ;)
>
> Specially if it's contemporary writing.

Amen!

>>>> There are facts, and then there are "facts". Is it true that blue is
>>>> the best color? Good luck answering that objectively. ;)
>>>
>>> There are meaningless sentences and questions.  Chomsky constructs the
>>> famous one---colorless green ideas sleep furiously.  Good luck trying to
>>> picture that in any way.  Truth (and philosophy) is not about nonsense.
>>> It's about honestly making sense of things.
>>
>> Sometimes I think that is lost in a lot of modern philosophy.
>
> By ``modern'' do you mean contemporary philosophy?  ``Modern''
> philosophy is that of Descartes, for example.

Contemporary.

>> Well, for me, Kants biggest insight, is that we can never get to the
>> metaphysical through the physical. But then he adds a lot of stuff
>> onto that, and I don't quite agree with where he goes.
>
> I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about here.  I'm not a Kant
> reader.  Are you talking about the Critique of Pure Reason?  I did read
>
>  Prolegomena do Any Methaphysics
>  (that will be able to come forward as a science)
>
> and that's a pretty understandable book.  This book is a good
> introduction to the Critique of Pure Reason, but I think I don't really
> recommend you get into any of this stuff.  There's a lot more
> interesting things in life.

Agreed! Yes, I was talking about critique of pure reason. I also agree that
there is very little point in reading Kant unless you are interested in it for
its own sake. =)

>> Amen! A very important question that should be asked from time to
>> time. I am tomorrow leaving for a 2 month vacation. First 1 month in
>> spain, then a weekend in Lyon, and then a month in sweden. I am
>> already looking forward to a lot of good food in spain and 20+ C
>> weather!
>
> Nice.  Enjoy!

I'm doing my best! I did have a little relapse now onto the Usenet and I am
almost regretting it. ;)

>> I am not looking forward to travel. Modern travel I find
>> dehumanizing. It is all built around controlling the masses, and
>> treating them as badly as possible, while still taking their money.
>
> Oh, that's quite right.  I see the same.  The best way to travel in the
> end is by your own means such as by car, but then there's how good the

I've never been much into cars and I do not like to drive, _but_, I often
thought if driving could become more relaxing and less of a chore (and I'm
talking driving between countries, which would be 8-36 hours of driving to get
where I want to get) if I bought an older luxury car?

Small, modern cars are painfully loud and unstable on the highway. I do not
enjoy driving those.

> roads are, how far you go...  Staying in hotels used to be a great
> experience, but it's not quite anymore.  We have a complete
> deterioration of everything.

This is the truth! Hotels nowadays, is just one big surveillance center. I
prefer staying in my own house, a small B&B or airbnb if possible.

>> If I had infinite amounts of money, I would travel by private jet. If
>> I had an infinitely compassionate wife I would not travel at all. I
>> would be perfectly content to spend the rest of my life in my house,
>> deep in the forest, fishing.
>
> Yeah---gotta question a bit the need for traveling and tourism.  What's
> that all about?  I like to travel to see people, not places.  I honestly
> care very little to see culture and places.  It's different if you are
> my friend and you're interesting---then Sweden becomes interesting, too.
> So I'm usually interested where my family and friends are.

You are a philosopher king! My parents dragged me all around the glove several
times over by the time I was 16. After that, due to my job, I had to travel
several times more around the globe. I am so sick and tired of travelling, and
the fact that my wife loves travelling is one of my great pains and sorrows.

People all around the planet are the same, and I can watch all the monuments and
pyramids I like online or on TV in the privacy of my home, without sweating with
1000s of other tourists.

If I travel, it is to live in a place, preferably at least 6-12 months or more.
Travelling over the weekend is just my version of hell.

>> I feel I have done enough for the world. I feel like I can retire to
>> fishing with a perfectly clear conscience. =D
>
> Sounds like wisdom to me.

Thank you! I will tell my wife, that now it's not just me, but 2 people arguing
in favour of that! =D

>>>> True! No hocus pocus at all! =)
>>>
>>> You see, we have this preference for destroying mystery.  Other people
>>> prefer the mystic.  We are more warranted in our preference than the
>>> others are in theirs, but we should do it very carefully because
>>> otherwise we're doing the same silly thing other people do.
>>
>> It is dangerous to argue against peoples beliefs. That wakes up the
>> worst in people.
>
> So true.  My observation is that people's behavior really comes from
> deep within, not from the surface, so working on the surface is a
> complete waste of time.  (And the intellect is on the surface.)  That's
> why people behave ``irrationally'', meaning that's why we can't
> understand them at all.

True. That is why intellectual arguments very seldom persuade anyone. Only when
an argument "connects" with the ego, does it take. That is why emotional
arguments, bypassing the intellect, are so effective!

>> Well, from that point of view, we are lucky to have had a good
>> education! I just look at the students I have today, and get
>> depressed. =(
>
> Same here, but it's not clear what you mean by education.  In a sense I
> don't think it's our education, really, because I think education is on
> the surface.

I don't know. Maybe it is an attitude towards learning and developing ones self?
I mean after university, I continue to read, study, experiment for the joy of
learning.

Maybe that is the key?

>> Last friday I had a meeting with the management of the school, and
>> they forbade me to have dead lines for assignments out of fear that
>> fewer students will pass the courses.
>>
>> That's complete b.s. And I told them that they are prioritizing profit
>> over quality of education.
>>
>> They smiled and said that no, they would like both profit _and_
>> education.
>
> Lol!  _And_.  I do agree that it's obviously a lie.  Those lies that
> nearly everyone accepts and even repeats themselves.

Sigh yes...

>> I said that that is unrealistic
>
> You're so delicate. :)

I do my best. ;)

>> [...] especially if they remove all demands, and want courses to be
>> easier. Then I asked them to imagine how their children would be if
>> they said yes to their every wish. Would that be how they raise their
>> children or do they teach them to respect dead lines, boundaries and
>> work hard?
>>
>> They said, well, you do have a point. But we are your customer, and we
>> pay, so we decide the rules.
>>
>> And I had to agree with that, sadly. But at least I told them what
>> will happen, so now they cannot blame me when the credibility of their
>> students degrees drop in the market!
>
> At least they're minimally honest.  I'm okay with that.

Well, after sleeping on it, I decided I'll try a "top down" approach as well. So
I managed to reach a somewhat famous journalist at a national newspaper who was
interested in my story. So upon condition of anonymity, I told him the whole
story. He also happens to be a childhood friend of the director of the
government department that controls the schools, so he would pass my story on to
him as well.

Hooray! ;)

Do I have any illusions about things happening? Not in the least. But it was
great therapy, and I give it a 1% chance of it actually becoming a newspaper
story!

If that happens, I give it another 1% chance of the government actually doing
anything about it. ;)

So 1% of 1% not bad!! ;)

>> At least I won a small victory. Apparently they could possibly
>> consider a dead line in _one_ course, if the task is changed from lab
>> to project. But probably only in one course.
>
> I'd say don't push it hard.  Let them do what they want.  You've already
> shared your view.  Let nature follow its own course.  You don't have to
> influence them any further after sharing your view: they are also
> equally in the position to direct their lives.  Let nature follow its
> course.

Yes... probably the wisest choice. See above! =D

>> Very sad state of affairs. If this is a global trend, we are getting
>> closer to the end of civilization! =(
>
> It is a global trend.  And I think we have worse problems---fertility,
> chronic diseases, work and the general quality of life people have been
> living.  We're not at the bottom yet.  I think things are gonna down a
> lot more still.

Let's see. But I'm a long term optimist. Sure, in the short term, the next 5-20
years, things might not look good, but if we look 50 or 100 years ahead, I'm
100% certain things will be better! =)

>>> Lol---what?!  By descant?  Lol.  That's a spurious end of sentence.  I
>>> was totally offline, unable to look anything up, but I wanted to make a
>>> reference to the book
>>
>> Hmm, sorry, I must have slipped on the keyboard. I actually have no
>> idea what I meant to say! =/
>
> It was I who said it. :) I wanted to remember the author's name and I
> couldn't.  I forgot to look it up (later) and ended up posting the
> message.  That's a down side of being offline.  Sometimes you can't fill
> up the blank that you could if you were online.  I was literally offline
> that day.  I have the printed book, but it's boxed in the basement and I
> surely didn't feel like digging it up.
>
> Hey, are you getting USENET access during your vacation?  I wanna give
> you my e-mail address.  Take care!

I do get usenet access! Please let me know your email, and I'll send you mine.
Email I never miss. Usenet messages I do miss from time to time, especially now
when I'm on vacation and do not check it every day.

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              Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:39 -0300
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                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-15 23:58 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-17 00:02 -0300
                Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-18 03:00 +0000
                Re: broken schools Eva Lu <evalu@tor.soy> - 2025-03-18 21:20 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 11:17 +0100
                OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-19 13:51 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-19 23:20 +0100
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 11:52 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-23 00:31 +0100
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:50 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-01 16:43 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-04 11:20 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-06 23:17 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-10 15:19 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-12 21:05 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-13 13:10 -0300
    lifestyles Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:20 +0000

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