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Re: broken schools

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D <nospam@example.net> writes:

> On Sat, 8 Mar 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

>>> Amazing! You couldn't get further from the swedish folk psyche. In sweden two
>>> people could sit next to each other for years, and at most nod to each other.
>>> Maybe after a year or two, a small conversation might start.
>>
>> That's horrible.
>
> Well, it can be nice too, if you're an introvert or not in the mood
> for talking.  =)

I'd say it can be less scary or more comforting.  I don't really believe
that any human deep down prefers to be left alone.  My first hypothesis
is always a psychological thing that makes people uncomfortable with
interacting with other people.  You know, people can be born with a
disease.  But look at *most* people: they're born healthy.  So, my first
hypothesis is always a disfunction of some sort.

> Usually there is a talk about the swedish ketchup effect, when
> foreigners move to sweden.

Ketchup effect?  Wow.  I had never heard of that.  I get it.  The whole
thing comes down at once. :)

> They try to get to know swedish people, and they get nothing, nothing,
> nothing, and then everything at once. It can take years to get to know
> a sweden, but once they consider you a friend, it is a deep
> connection.

That's kinda cool.

> I found this difficult when I was living in the US for a year. It was
> super easy to go by myself to a bar, and talk to some people. It was
> impossible to get to know someone below the shallow facade.

I observed the same.  I also observed this in other cultures.  For
example, the Dutch culture.  I found the Americans way more honest and
close than the Dutch.  My hypothesis for explaining this was that the
United States offers a more trusting community; the Dutch deal with lots
of in and outflows of people from all over Europe.  Europe has much more
loose frontiers, say, than the United States.  I think I'm trying to say
that the United States is more homogeneous.  The Dutch are more smiles
on a first encounter and the Americans less so.  But beneath that the
Americans are really more friendly.

Other things I've noticed.  The Americans easily trust what you say.
(Some will be mildly outraged if you don't trust what they're saying.)
The Dutch are so not like that and you can observe that in commerce.

Now, having said that, it's one thing to talk of Americans in the
Midwest, say.  It's another thing to talk of Americans on the East
coast, say.  The parallel I make here is between small city and big
city.  It's not unusual for us to find people more friendly in small
cities.

Try to ask what is it to a local on 5th Avenue, New York City.  They are
not even going to look at you---you'll likely feel like a ghost.

>>> In the subway, no one talks to each other. People mainstain silence
>>> and look at their phones. Only people who know each other talk on
>>> the subway. Definitely not strangers.
>>
>> Reminds me of New York City.
>
> Maybe... I haven't been there for probably 25 year or more. I imagine that
> smartphones have infected them as they have infected almost everyone. =/

My observations are pre-smartphones.  Before smartphones, people's faces
were buried in books on the subway.  They've just replaced the book with
the phone.

>> I don't think it's too different here in Rio.  But I often greet people
>> as a gesture of recognition of their existence.  It turns out people do
>> like that.  At first you greet people alone; it's too unexpected for
>> them to react.  (This makes the greeter feel odd and so people usually
>> stop on the first attempt.)  Little by little, though, things change.
>> You need to be okay to do this properly.  (If you don't feel like
>> talking to people, you will likely not work.)  People like respect.
>> Recognizing their existence is an important gesture.  There are
>> psychoanalytical explanations to all of this, but, since it's not
>> obvious, it would take a while to build the result from first
>> principles.
>
> It is interesting. Your life situation can also determine how open you
> are. 

Totally.  The inner is the outer.

> My father is a widower, and I live in a different country. So he has
> been quite alone but he has started to get involved in 2 retired
> peoples associations, and also has a weekly game of boule/petanque as
> well. That has become his social world, and he has met many new people
> that way.
>
> I think, when people reach retirement age, a lot of the facade drops
> naturally and they become more open perhaps.

I wouldn't say ``naturally'', but I agree that as you age, you drop the
bullshit.  Not everyone---surely.  Not everyone learns over the years.

>> And I agree about the women---we really don't have any shortage of
>> beautiful, caring women.  But the fact is that that's true anywhere else
>> in the world.  It is true that women and men are losing their health
>> early in life, which doesn't favor their looks; still, everywhere I go I
>> am often hypnotized by feminine natural enchants.
>
> This is the truth. A very interesting phenomenon at the moment is the
> global fertility crisis.

Are we talking about male fertility?  I'm gonna follow that one very
closely.

> My bet is that it is a complex phenomenon consisting of chemicals,
> unhealthy lifestyles, shifting norms, feminism and demographics.

I agree.  It seems that way.  Although I'd remove feminism if we're
talking about male fertility.  But surely women is also involved in
men's everything (and /vice versa/).  There's really no separation.
There never was.

There has ``always'' been a war between men and women.  It's a pretty
sad one, in fact.  It is---to me---much more serious than military wars.

>>> Interesting experiment! I've tried it due to chance a couple of
>>> times, but then I get so tired in the evening, so I won't get as
>>> much quality computer time in when the wife sleeps. ;)
>>
>> I had a girlfriend once who lived with me.  Our relationship lasted for
>> about 3 years and we lived together for 2.  I did this, too---she'd go
>> to bed earlier and I'd work until a few hours later.  I regret all of
>> that.  If I were really serious about my work, I'd wake up a few hours
>> earlier (than her).  It's not like I was more productive.  What was
>> really happening was that work was also working like a drug---and I was
>> definitely under the influence of coffee and other nutritional life
>> killers.
>>
>> Not going to sleep with your wife is definitely a missed opportunity.
>> If you don't love your wife, you can split; but if you do, you should go
>> to bed with her.  (Wny wouldn't you?  For work?  Nonsense.)  In fact,
>> you probably should even be the first to go to bed (and then call her).
>
> Well, what I do, to be more precise, is that when she goes to bed, we
> usually talk for half an hour or so. Then she goes to sleep, and then
> I get 2-3 hours to myself.
>
> I need time for myself and my interests, since she is not into
> technology and science fiction so the evenings I spend pursuing my
> hobbies and interests she has no interest in, so that we can do things
> we both enjoy during the days.

Of course, it all makes perfect sense.  The burden of the proof is
totally mine because I am the one speaking out unreasonable things.  But
I'm not trying to prove anything---it's too hard.  So stay alert. :) You
don't need time for yourself and your interests.  That's actually false.
Time for yourself and your interests is likely a way for you to feel
like that day was worth it.  But most likely the reason you feel that
way is because there's something wrong already, before that.  You're
living with the assumption that you need to /have fun/ or something like
that.  

Human life does not really require having fun.  Fun is not really
something we need.  There's nothing wrong with having fun.  One thing I
observe in very young kids is that they need no toys.  A little ant,
say, is quite a toy.  But then they're given a bunch of toys.  You know
those those eye-candies that are hung above a craddle?  Babies likely
feel enchanted by them, as they move and shine.  I claim they need none
of that.  In fact, that's too much stimuli.

You don't need your science and your interests.  And I also claim that
you would in fact have a lot more with science and your interests if you
stop pursuing them.  Do your work.  That's healthy.  You do need to
study it.  But guide yourself only by a very rational thing.  If there
is no time for your science, then there is no time for it.  It's not a
bad life.  A bad life is an unnatural life.  We've distanced ourselves
quite a bit from nature; it's all very seductive.  Now we need to really
walk in a different direction in order to get out of this.

>> Without coffee, I'm sure you get to bed very early (though it's not
>> gonna happen overnight).  And I wouldn't be surprised if you
>> (eventually) find enough energy to be up first, too.
>
> Waking up early is physically and mentally painful for me. It is
> torture. Coffee or no coffee, I have always been a night owl.

I was a night person as a teenager and carried that on for many years.
I never thought I'd say otherwise.  But I can easily say it now.  If I
were to go back in time, I wouldn't lose a single night for any
reason---except to stay with someone in the hospital, say.  It's just
not worth it.  Hppainess is physical disposition, which requires
impeccable health.

> I have been know to pay 200 USD more for plane tickets in order to not
> have to wake up before 10 in the morning.

That's worth it. :)

> Now I am in the blessed situation to live +1 hour time difference from
> my main customers, so that allows me to wake up at 10:00 every day,
> and start working at around 10:05. =D

Enjoy. :)  That's also good.

> I don't know if I would ever be able to wake up at 07:30 to be at an
> office at 09:00, then space out for at least an hour before fully
> awake, and zombie walk through the day.

Of course you would. :)

> I remember when I was young,

You're still young. :)

> I used to sleep 5-6 hours per night,

That's little sleep.

> to still keep my night time hobby time, while having to wake up at
> 7:30 and go to work. I shudder at the memory and hope I will make it
> to retirement age, with my current lifestyle! =)

I'm sure you want to keep all the health you have and even recover
anything you've temporarily lost.  And it's worth it!  That's your best
retirement plan.  Happiness is health in every sense of the word.  Do
not believe the happy people who've lost their health or youth, which is
the same thing.

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Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000
  Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-16 21:23 +0100
    Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 23:55 -0300
      Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 11:40 +0100
        Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 09:26 -0800
          Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:42 +0100
            Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:23 +0000
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:20 +0100
            Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-19 07:32 +1000
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-02-18 23:47 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:42 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:10 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:44 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:44 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:23 +1000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:22 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:55 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 17:59 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:01 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:51 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:01 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:29 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:55 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 05:19 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:28 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:55 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:34 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:15 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:06 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:10 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 10:08 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 23:12 +0100
                OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:31 -0300
                Re: OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:52 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-27 21:40 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:48 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 06:40 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 13:39 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 22:12 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 17:54 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:41 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:19 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:16 +0100
                education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:55 +0000
                Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 22:00 -0300
                Re: education Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-08 03:47 +0000
                Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 18:27 -0300
                Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-09 02:08 +0000
                Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 02:58 -0300
                Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-10 18:38 +0000
                Re: education cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:13 +0000
                Re: education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:30 +0000
                Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:17 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-25 19:12 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 02:08 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-26 09:06 -0600
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-26 18:09 -0400
                the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:46 -0300
                Re: the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-27 03:31 -0400
                Re: the command line is language Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:10 -0300
                Re: the command line is language D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:41 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:47 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:38 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 22:34 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 18:50 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:11 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:18 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:04 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 18:53 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-28 21:41 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:03 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:29 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:16 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 12:36 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:55 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:43 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:07 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:05 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 15:06 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:47 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:31 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:52 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:15 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:51 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-01 17:15 -0400
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-02 12:34 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-02-26 12:29 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:04 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
                more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:38 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 19:47 -0500
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:55 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:00 -0500
                OT: a personal note to Stefan Ram (Was: Re: more on broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 09:31 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:03 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:30 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:43 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:33 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:00 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:50 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:46 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:31 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-14 23:46 +0100
                Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:43 -0300
                Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-17 23:44 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:50 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:21 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 17:06 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:28 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:12 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:08 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:32 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:22 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:34 +0100
                fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 13:18 -0300
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:53 +0100
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:23 -0300
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0100
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:10 -0300
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:09 +0100
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:41 -0300
                Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:32 +0100
                UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:10 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:54 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:08 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:09 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:17 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-16 00:03 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:41 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 10:50 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 16:26 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems Matto Fransen <mattof@sdf.org> - 2025-03-21 19:53 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:11 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-21 23:37 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:34 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 21:49 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-26 23:24 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-29 22:31 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:40 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-22 10:11 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-25 17:40 -0400
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 23:04 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems Charles Dagny <1800@DEV.NULL> - 2025-03-28 21:41 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-10 15:06 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-11 11:58 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-11 15:49 +0042
                Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 15:25 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-11 16:24 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:30 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-12 23:23 +0042
                Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-13 20:40 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:04 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 21:26 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:23 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 01:24 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-12 01:38 -0300
                Re: UNIX systems snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-12 14:03 +0000
                Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-12 22:19 +0100
                Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-11 19:09 -0400
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-04 02:44 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-03-04 17:50 +0000
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:40 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:29 +1000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:56 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:45 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:01 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:22 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:02 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:44 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:43 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:04 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:01 +0100
                broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:46 -0300
                Re: broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:18 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:34 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:38 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:45 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 14:05 +0100
                Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0000
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:10 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:49 -0300
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 07:41 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 19:52 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:41 -0300
                Re: broken schools yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 02:59 +0042
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:14 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 22:26 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 22:52 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:39 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:59 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-15 23:58 +0100
                Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-17 00:02 -0300
                Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-18 03:00 +0000
                Re: broken schools Eva Lu <evalu@tor.soy> - 2025-03-18 21:20 -0300
                Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 11:17 +0100
                OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-19 13:51 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-19 23:20 +0100
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 11:52 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-23 00:31 +0100
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:50 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-01 16:43 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-04 11:20 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-06 23:17 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-10 15:19 -0300
                Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-12 21:05 +0200
                Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-13 13:10 -0300
                lifestyles Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:20 +0000
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:40 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:57 +0100
        Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-17 18:30 +0000
          Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:44 +0100
            Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 00:08 +0000
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-18 00:30 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:23 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:52 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 01:09 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:27 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:51 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:22 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:23 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:07 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:35 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:31 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:06 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:01 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 13:48 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:56 -0300
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:22 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 14:05 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:03 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:14 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:47 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 22:12 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:15 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:04 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:21 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:46 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:43 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-02-25 14:20 +0300
                small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:20 -0300
                Re: small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:57 +0100
                Re: small communities, nntp server Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:20 -0300
                Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:49 +0100
                Re: small communities, nntp server yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-02-26 13:50 +0042
                Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
                Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:59 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:13 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:41 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:33 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:12 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:03 +0100
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:51 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:49 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:21 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:22 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-22 17:09 +0000
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-23 00:23 +0100
            Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:49 -0300
              Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:05 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:24 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:05 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:56 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:51 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:21 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:10 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:04 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:28 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 21:58 -0300
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:26 +0100
                OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 11:58 -0300
                Re: OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:21 +0100
                Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:04 -0300
                Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:21 +0100
                Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:49 -0300
                Re: OT: personal stories yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 00:43 +0042
                Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:46 +0100
                Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:45 +0100
                Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:37 -0300
                Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-25 13:17 -0600
                Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300

csiph-web