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Groups > sci.physics > #892785 > unrolled thread

"The Day The Earth Stood Still"

Started byThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
First post2025-05-18 17:23 -0700
Last post2025-06-21 15:45 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 231 — 22 participants

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Contents

  "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-18 17:23 -0700
    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-18 21:27 -0700
      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-19 08:58 -0700
        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-19 22:46 -0700
          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-20 16:57 -0700
        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-20 08:21 +0200
          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-20 17:07 -0700
            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-20 22:27 -0700
            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-24 23:56 -0600
              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-26 08:03 +0200
                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-05-26 10:47 -0700
                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-27 09:07 +0200
                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 21:37 -0400
                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-28 08:02 +0200
                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-05-28 12:00 -0500
                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-05-28 17:11 -0400
                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-31 08:41 +0200
                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 17:28 -0400
                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-01 09:39 +0200
                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 17:57 -0400
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-02 18:49 +0200
                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 18:49 -0400
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-03 09:11 +0200
                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 14:41 -0400
                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-04 08:55 +0200
                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 06:17 -0400
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 14:45 -0400
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-04 08:05 +0200
                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 01:02 -0400
                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 00:55 -0400
                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-01 00:26 -0700
                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-02 17:43 +0200
                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-06 00:03 -0600
                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 01:28 -0400
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 12:35 -0500
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-07 23:44 -0600
                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-09 07:04 +0200
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-08 23:49 -0700
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 06:56 -0400
                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-10 18:23 -0700
                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-11 08:01 +0200
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-13 10:14 -0700
                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-14 09:03 +0200
                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-14 01:23 -0700
                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-15 10:08 +0200
                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-15 09:03 -0400
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-15 12:58 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 03:38 -0400
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 09:56 +0200
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-18 09:30 -0700
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 12:55 -0400
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-19 10:02 +0200
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-19 01:13 -0700
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-19 08:54 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-18 22:41 -0600
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-19 01:07 -0700
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-20 09:17 +0200
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-20 12:00 -0700
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 12:07 -0700
                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-20 12:40 -0700
                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-21 09:22 +0200
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-21 00:50 -0700
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-24 12:09 +0200
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-24 03:25 -0700
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-25 09:41 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-25 10:20 -0700
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-06-25 11:27 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-27 08:04 +0200
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" J Carlson <notgenx32@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-27 09:19 -0700
                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-28 18:28 +0200
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-21 09:19 -0700
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-24 12:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-24 03:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-24 10:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-27 07:39 +0200
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-06-27 06:04 -0700
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-27 09:18 -0700
                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-27 10:16 -0700
                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" J Carlson <notgenx32@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-27 11:38 -0700
                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-27 13:13 -0700
                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-28 18:32 +0200
                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-28 10:12 -0700
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-13 22:25 -0600
                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-14 08:38 +0200
                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-27 23:35 -0600
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-25 09:40 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-25 09:47 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 16:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-13 22:23 -0600
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-14 08:35 +0200
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-07-14 16:58 -0400
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-15 20:23 +0200
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-07-15 16:45 -0400
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2025-07-15 01:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-19 18:15 -0700
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-07-21 01:27 -0400
                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-21 09:02 -0700
                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-21 19:12 -0700
                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-21 23:06 -0700
                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 11:21 -0700
                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" x <x@x.net> - 2025-07-23 11:24 -0700
                                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-23 13:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" x <x@x.net> - 2025-07-23 14:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-23 16:31 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 21:41 -0400
                                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-27 23:38 -0600
                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 11:25 -0700
                                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-23 22:03 +0200
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 14:04 -0700
                                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-23 15:37 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" x <x@x.net> - 2025-07-23 15:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-24 13:00 +0200
                                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-24 13:51 -0700
                                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-25 22:12 +0200
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-25 14:11 -0700
                                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 19:35 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 00:44 -0700
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 19:42 -0700
                                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 19:46 -0700
                                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 19:49 -0700
                                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 21:17 -0700
                                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 15:26 -0700
                                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-27 13:39 -0700
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-27 13:57 -0700
                                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-27 14:33 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-07-27 17:04 -0700
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" squalk <sq@net.inv> - 2025-07-28 00:05 +0100
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-07-27 17:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-25 19:33 -0700
                                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 00:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-26 12:01 -0700
                                                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 15:29 -0700
                                                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-07-27 13:00 -0400
                                                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2025-07-27 17:33 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-27 11:06 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-07-27 11:40 -0700
                                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-28 20:38 +0200
                                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 21:43 -0400
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 19:51 -0700
                                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 19:51 -0700
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-27 23:34 -0600
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-28 01:47 -0700
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:47 -0600
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-28 20:43 +0200
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-07-14 04:01 -0700
                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 13:09 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 13:11 -0700
                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-20 15:13 -0700
                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-23 22:41 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-07-24 11:11 -0400
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-24 13:15 -0700
                                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-25 22:12 +0200
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-26 00:42 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-26 12:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" x <x@x.net> - 2025-07-26 14:43 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-27 10:22 +0200
                                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-27 13:37 -0700
                                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" x <x@x.net> - 2025-07-26 13:53 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-06-30 22:56 -0500
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 09:49 +0200
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-18 09:30 -0700
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 12:58 -0400
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-15 18:09 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 14:09 -0400
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-16 15:08 -0400
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 12:39 -0700
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-16 17:37 -0400
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-17 07:36 +0200
                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-15 10:08 -0700
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2025-06-15 17:52 +0000
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 03:44 -0400
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-18 22:17 -0600
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-15 11:25 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2025-06-15 16:32 -0400
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-15 17:59 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 03:46 -0400
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 10:04 +0200
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-18 09:30 -0700
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 13:00 -0400
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-06-18 06:56 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-17 07:44 +0200
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-17 23:02 -0400
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-06-17 20:05 -0700
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 03:40 -0400
                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-15 18:44 -0700
                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-16 09:46 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-16 16:58 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-17 00:58 -0700
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 10:23 +0200
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 13:06 -0400
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-18 15:41 -0400
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-18 13:58 -0700
                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 06:12 -0400
                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-19 07:12 -0400
                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 12:28 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-19 16:40 -0700
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-18 14:47 -0700
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 14:53 -0700
                                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 10:07 +0200
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-18 09:18 -0700
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-19 09:36 +0200
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-19 08:54 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-18 09:30 -0700
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-19 09:58 +0200
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-19 01:23 -0700
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-20 09:26 +0200
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-20 12:01 -0700
                                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-21 09:13 +0200
                                                                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-21 00:49 -0700
                                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-19 08:54 -0700
                                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-20 09:38 +0200
                                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" OrigInfoJunkie <bondrock@att.net> - 2025-06-20 12:01 -0700
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 13:02 -0400
                                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-18 13:09 -0400
                                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-18 15:15 -0700
                                              Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Craig <x@y.com> - 2025-06-18 18:25 +0000
                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-14 20:54 -0400
                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-14 19:57 -0700
                                            Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-15 18:13 -0700
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-06-13 18:49 -0400
                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-15 09:53 +0200
                                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Oleg Smirnov" <os333@netc.eu> - 2025-06-15 14:45 +0300
                                    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-17 07:27 +0200
                                      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Oleg Smirnov" <os333@netc.eu> - 2025-06-17 16:25 +0300
                                        Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-18 10:28 +0200
                                          Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Oleg Smirnov" <os333@netc.eu> - 2025-06-19 12:55 +0300
                  Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-01 23:10 -0600
                Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-31 23:13 -0600
    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 23:47 -0500
    Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 15:40 -0700
      Re: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 15:45 -0700

Page 2 of 12 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 12  Next page →


#892994

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-02 18:49 +0200
Message-ID<ma62skFt1qeU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#892969
Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 23:57 schrieb William Hyde:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 23:28 schrieb William Hyde:
> 
>>
>> Dutch is actually relatively close to German 
> 
> Indeed.  When in the Netherlands I found that my knowledge of English, 
> combined with the decayed remnants of my German, allowed me to read most 
> signage.   After a week or two I was able to read more complex 
> inscriptions.
> 
> I got through a page of "The Lord of the Rings" in Norwegian by similar 
> means, though it probably helped that I'd already read it in English.
> 
> and could also be regarded
>> as proper English name for 'German'.
> 
> It's an odd situation.
> 
> 
> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the French 
> after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at least make a 
> stab at the right name.
> 
> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow the 
> French model, as do the Spanish.
> 
> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
> 
>  >
>  > But the British
> 
> Not all the British, see above.
> 
>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
> 
> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
> 
> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" was a 
> word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people lived. 
> Perhaps they just called it "the old country".

There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.

German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of Europe 
and possibly beyond.

Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together 
about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.

Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the 
times of the Anglo-Saxons.

So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.

French took the 'Alemanes', which were a people or tribe, which possibly 
stem from the south-west of Europe and settled in the south-west of Germany.

Romans used a general term (like in many other cases), and called all 
the people from the North of the limes 'Germanes'.

This word was, of course, not used by the 'Germanes', who also didn't 
call their country 'Germany' (which, btw, hadn't existed at that time).


> So by the time the English felt the need for a word describing the area, 
> they probably just went with the Latin, the more so as most literate 
> people at the time were in the church.

English is (in my opinion) actually closer related to Latin than current 
Italian.

(possibly all the Romans went to England)



TH

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#893000

FromWilliam Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-02 18:49 -0400
Message-ID<101l9qh$3ihf9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#892994
Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 23:57 schrieb William Hyde:
>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 23:28 schrieb William Hyde:
>>
>>>
>>> Dutch is actually relatively close to German 
>>
>> Indeed.  When in the Netherlands I found that my knowledge of English, 
>> combined with the decayed remnants of my German, allowed me to read 
>> most signage.   After a week or two I was able to read more complex 
>> inscriptions.
>>
>> I got through a page of "The Lord of the Rings" in Norwegian by 
>> similar means, though it probably helped that I'd already read it in 
>> English.
>>
>> and could also be regarded
>>> as proper English name for 'German'.
>>
>> It's an odd situation.
>>
>>
>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the 
>> French after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at 
>> least make a stab at the right name.
>>
>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow the 
>> French model, as do the Spanish.
>>
>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>>
>>  >
>>  > But the British
>>
>> Not all the British, see above.
>>
>>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>>
>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>>
>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" was 
>> a word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people lived. 
>> Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
> 
> There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
> 
> German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of Europe 
> and possibly beyond.
> 
> Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together 
> about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
> 
> Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the 
> times of the Anglo-Saxons.

 >
 > So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.
 >


Actually the "Kingdom of Germany" dates from the breakup of 
Charlemagne's empire, formed in the Treaty of Verdun in 843.  It was 
later absorbed into the Holy Roman Empire, which was later renamed 
(circa 1500) "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". Which I 
presume is why the 1871 state was the second empire.

Naturally, the word used for "German" in the above varies from place to 
place - wikipedia is helpful here, giving:

"The Kingdom of Germany or German Kingdom (Latin: regnum Teutonicorum 
'kingdom of the Germans', regnum Teutonicum 'German kingdom',[1] regnum 
Alamanie "kingdom of Germany",[2] German: Deutsches Königreich)"

so the Anglo-Saxons really did need a name, and they went with Caesar's 
version.

> French took the 'Alemanes', which were a people or tribe, which possibly 
> stem from the south-west of Europe and settled in the south-west of 
> Germany.
> 
> Romans used a general term (like in many other cases), and called all 
> the people from the North of the limes 'Germanes'.
> 
> This word was, of course, not used by the 'Germanes', who also didn't 
> call their country 'Germany' (which, btw, hadn't existed at that time).
> 
> 
>> So by the time the English felt the need for a word describing the 
>> area, they probably just went with the Latin, the more so as most 
>> literate people at the time were in the church.
> 
> English is (in my opinion) actually closer related to Latin than current 
> Italian.

"This is not true".

"I do not believe this"

"This is not the case".

Only the  third of these remarks has a word arising from Latin.

And in that last one, only "Latin" is from Latin.  You can speak English 
all day without using a latinate word, though I don't see the point 
(search for "Uncleftish Beholding" for an example).

> 
> (possibly all the Romans went to England)

Britain experienced a bit of an economic resurgence in the mid 300s, 
when wealthy refugees from Gaul moved there.  That would possibly have 
increased the fraction of the population that spoke Latin.

William Hyde

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#893007

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-03 09:11 +0200
Message-ID<ma7lcfF5rumU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#893000
Am Dienstag000003, 03.06.2025 um 00:49 schrieb William Hyde:
...
>>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the 
>>> French after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at 
>>> least make a stab at the right name.
>>>
>>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow the 
>>> French model, as do the Spanish.
>>>
>>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
>>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > But the British
>>>
>>> Not all the British, see above.
>>>
>>>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>>>
>>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>>>
>>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
>>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" was 
>>> a word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people lived. 
>>> Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
>>
>> There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
>>
>> German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of 
>> Europe and possibly beyond.
>>
>> Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together 
>> about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
>>
>> Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the 
>> times of the Anglo-Saxons.
> 
>  >
>  > So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.
>  >
> 
> 
> Actually the "Kingdom of Germany" dates from the breakup of 
> Charlemagne's empire, formed in the Treaty of Verdun in 843.  It was 
> later absorbed into the Holy Roman Empire, which was later renamed 
> (circa 1500) "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". Which I 
> presume is why the 1871 state was the second empire.


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnum_Teutonicum

The 'Regnum Teutonicum' was obviously named after the Teutons.

This was a people who lived in the norther region of Denmark and do not 
belong to the set of people, which build the population of present day 
Germany.

Actually all the tribes, which were called 'Germanes' by the Romans, 
stem from the regions, which belonged to Denmark.


> Naturally, the word used for "German" in the above varies from place to 
> place - wikipedia is helpful here, giving:
> 
> "The Kingdom of Germany or German Kingdom (Latin: regnum Teutonicorum 
> 'kingdom of the Germans', regnum Teutonicum 'German kingdom',[1] regnum 
> Alamanie "kingdom of Germany",[2] German: Deutsches Königreich)"
> 
> so the Anglo-Saxons really did need a name, and they went with Caesar's 
> version.

'Angeln' is the name of a region in the north of Schleswig Holstein, 
which was a part of Denmark, too. That was the region, were the 
Anglo-Saxons came from.

The German state 'Sachsen' is in no way related to Saxons, because 'Sax' 
was the name of an ancient weapon (kind of ax).

These Anglo-Saxons  settled also in 'Niedersachsen', but most likely 
didn't speak German or called themselves 'Germanes'.

So, why should they call their kingdom 'Germany'?

>> French took the 'Alemanes', which were a people or tribe, which 
>> possibly stem from the south-west of Europe and settled in the south- 
>> west of Germany.
>>
>> Romans used a general term (like in many other cases), and called all 
>> the people from the North of the limes 'Germanes'.
>>
>> This word was, of course, not used by the 'Germanes', who also didn't 
>> call their country 'Germany' (which, btw, hadn't existed at that time).
>>
>>
>>> So by the time the English felt the need for a word describing the 
>>> area, they probably just went with the Latin, the more so as most 
>>> literate people at the time were in the church.
>>
>> English is (in my opinion) actually closer related to Latin than 
>> current Italian.
> 
> "This is not true".
> 
> "I do not believe this"
> 
> "This is not the case".
> 
> Only the  third of these remarks has a word arising from Latin.


I have learned two languages in school (English and Latin), but tried to 
learn a few more.

Among this was actually Italian.

To my great surprise, the knowledge of Latin didn't make it easier to 
learn Italian.

Instead I could see more similarities in the English language to Latin 
(for whatever reason).

Possibly the Romans went to England and lived there for some time (after 
the destruction of Rome).

...

TH

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#893022

FromWilliam Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-03 14:41 -0400
Message-ID<101nfl0$70fa$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#893007
Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Dienstag000003, 03.06.2025 um 00:49 schrieb William Hyde:
> ...
>>>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the 
>>>> French after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at 
>>>> least make a stab at the right name.
>>>>
>>>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow 
>>>> the French model, as do the Spanish.
>>>>
>>>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
>>>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>>>>
>>>>  >
>>>>  > But the British
>>>>
>>>> Not all the British, see above.
>>>>
>>>>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>>>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>>>>
>>>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>>>>
>>>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
>>>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" 
>>>> was a word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people 
>>>> lived. Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
>>>
>>> There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
>>>
>>> German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of 
>>> Europe and possibly beyond.
>>>
>>> Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together 
>>> about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
>>>
>>> Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the 
>>> times of the Anglo-Saxons.
>>
>>  >
>>  > So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't 
>> exist.
>>  >
>>
>>
>> Actually the "Kingdom of Germany" dates from the breakup of 
>> Charlemagne's empire, formed in the Treaty of Verdun in 843.  It was 
>> later absorbed into the Holy Roman Empire, which was later renamed 
>> (circa 1500) "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". Which I 
>> presume is why the 1871 state was the second empire.
> 
> 
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnum_Teutonicum
> 
> The 'Regnum Teutonicum' was obviously named after the Teutons.
> 
> This was a people who lived in the norther region of Denmark and do not 
> belong to the set of people, which build the population of present day 
> Germany.
> 
> Actually all the tribes, which were called 'Germanes' by the Romans, 
> stem from the regions, which belonged to Denmark.
> 
> 
>> Naturally, the word used for "German" in the above varies from place 
>> to place - wikipedia is helpful here, giving:
>>
>> "The Kingdom of Germany or German Kingdom (Latin: regnum Teutonicorum 
>> 'kingdom of the Germans', regnum Teutonicum 'German kingdom',[1] 
>> regnum Alamanie "kingdom of Germany",[2] German: Deutsches Königreich)"
>>
>> so the Anglo-Saxons really did need a name, and they went with 
>> Caesar's version.
> 
> 'Angeln' is the name of a region in the north of Schleswig Holstein, 
> which was a part of Denmark, too. That was the region, were the 
> Anglo-Saxons came from.
> 
> The German state 'Sachsen' is in no way related to Saxons, because 'Sax' 
> was the name of an ancient weapon (kind of ax).
> 
> These Anglo-Saxons  settled also in 'Niedersachsen', but most likely 
> didn't speak German or called themselves 'Germanes'.
> 
> So, why should they call their kingdom 'Germany'?


My point is that circa 850 the Anglo-Saxons in England needed a name for 
this new kingdom.  Ango-Saxon missionaries, active in Germany at the 
time, would have been well aware that the word "German" was not in use 
there.  But as Latin speakers they probably went with the Latin example, 
and used "Germania".  Which was easy to remember because every Latin 
speaker had read Caesar's memoirs.

Irish missionaries were also prominent in Germany (in fact Rome 
commanded Anglo-Saxon missionaries to go to Germany specifically to 
counter the Irish, who were regarded as heretical - how times change), 
and it seems that they, too, went with the Latin example.

It is notable that the Welsh, an independent people, disagreed.

> 
> I have learned two languages in school (English and Latin), but tried to 
> learn a few more.

How parallel.  My optional languages were German and Latin, though later 
there were small amounts of Russian and Greek.

French was not optional, but I would have taken it anyway.
> 
> Among this was actually Italian.
> 
> To my great surprise, the knowledge of Latin didn't make it easier to 
> learn Italian.

I chose to study German in school, and to my surprise, those who took 
German were required to take Latin.  It was felt that understanding the 
mysteries of Latin grammar would help with German.  I was glad to take 
Latin anyway, but didn't really see the point.

> 
> Instead I could see more similarities in the English language to Latin 
> (for whatever reason).
> 
> Possibly the Romans went to England and lived there for some time (after 
> the destruction of Rome).

Roman forces left Britain in 407.   Britain had never been as Latinized 
as Gaul, and it is not clear what fraction of the remaining population 
spoke Latin fluently, as opposed to Celtic.

Latin in England did not survive the Anglo-Saxon conquest except for 
occasional loan words.  A few hundred Latin words were added with the 
return of Christianity,

The Latin-derived vocabulary of English comes mainly from French, though 
some words were added later, particularly in the renaissance, as all 
educated people spoke Latin.

Current Italian comes from the dialect spoken in Tuscany in the time of 
Dante, with French and Provencal influences. Perhaps the various German 
tribes, Ostrogoths, Lombards, left some linguistic influence behind, but 
I am only speculating here.

William Hyde

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#893038

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-04 08:55 +0200
Message-ID<maa8r4Fi1o0U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#893022
Am Dienstag000003, 03.06.2025 um 20:41 schrieb William Hyde:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Dienstag000003, 03.06.2025 um 00:49 schrieb William Hyde:
>> ...
>>>>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the 
>>>>> French after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at 
>>>>> least make a stab at the right name.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow 
>>>>> the French model, as do the Spanish.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
>>>>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>>>>>
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > But the British
>>>>>
>>>>> Not all the British, see above.
>>>>>
>>>>>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>>>>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
>>>>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" 
>>>>> was a word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people 
>>>>> lived. Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
>>>>
>>>> There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
>>>>
>>>> German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of 
>>>> Europe and possibly beyond.
>>>>
>>>> Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing 
>>>> together about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
>>>>
>>>> Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at 
>>>> the times of the Anglo-Saxons.
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't 
>>> exist.
>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually the "Kingdom of Germany" dates from the breakup of 
>>> Charlemagne's empire, formed in the Treaty of Verdun in 843.  It was 
>>> later absorbed into the Holy Roman Empire, which was later renamed 
>>> (circa 1500) "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". Which I 
>>> presume is why the 1871 state was the second empire.
>>
>>
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnum_Teutonicum
>>
>> The 'Regnum Teutonicum' was obviously named after the Teutons.
>>
>> This was a people who lived in the norther region of Denmark and do 
>> not belong to the set of people, which build the population of present 
>> day Germany.
>>
>> Actually all the tribes, which were called 'Germanes' by the Romans, 
>> stem from the regions, which belonged to Denmark.
>>
>>
>>> Naturally, the word used for "German" in the above varies from place 
>>> to place - wikipedia is helpful here, giving:
>>>
>>> "The Kingdom of Germany or German Kingdom (Latin: regnum Teutonicorum 
>>> 'kingdom of the Germans', regnum Teutonicum 'German kingdom',[1] 
>>> regnum Alamanie "kingdom of Germany",[2] German: Deutsches Königreich)"
>>>
>>> so the Anglo-Saxons really did need a name, and they went with 
>>> Caesar's version.
>>
>> 'Angeln' is the name of a region in the north of Schleswig Holstein, 
>> which was a part of Denmark, too. That was the region, were the Anglo- 
>> Saxons came from.
>>
>> The German state 'Sachsen' is in no way related to Saxons, because 
>> 'Sax' was the name of an ancient weapon (kind of ax).
>>
>> These Anglo-Saxons  settled also in 'Niedersachsen', but most likely 
>> didn't speak German or called themselves 'Germanes'.
>>
>> So, why should they call their kingdom 'Germany'?
> 
> 
> My point is that circa 850 the Anglo-Saxons in England needed a name for 
> this new kingdom.  Ango-Saxon missionaries, active in Germany at the 
> time, would have been well aware that the word "German" was not in use 
> there.  But as Latin speakers they probably went with the Latin example, 
> and used "Germania".  Which was easy to remember because every Latin 
> speaker had read Caesar's memoirs.
> 
> Irish missionaries were also prominent in Germany (in fact Rome 
> commanded Anglo-Saxon missionaries to go to Germany specifically to 
> counter the Irish, who were regarded as heretical - how times change), 
> and it seems that they, too, went with the Latin example.


Which was actually correct, because tribes named 'Germanes' were 
actually Scandinavians.

Modern Germany is not part of scandinavia, but south and occupies a part 
of Central Europe.

So, 'Germanic' is an atribute belonging to certain tribes, who settled 
in southern Scandinavia and northern Germany.

Those scandinavians were predominately blond, while Germans were not.

The confusion stems from the use of the Roman term 'Germanes', which was 
used indicriminately for all northern people by the Romans.

Better would be to concentrate on ethnicity, culture and languages.

The language in Germany is called 'Deutsch' and the language is quite 
different to what Danes speak.

So: 'Mare Germanicum' (for 'North Sea') means actually 'Danish Sea' and 
not 'German Sea'.

Also Wikings and (Anglo-) Saxons were not really German tribes, because 
this country is named after the language 'Deutsch' and the Wikinigs 
spoke most likely Danish.

> It is notable that the Welsh, an independent people, disagreed.

There are certainly many issues like this. But it would be certainly 
misleading to discuss thoses issues here, too.
...


TH

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#893008

FromGovernor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-03 06:17 -0400
Message-ID<trit3k1dlvgggqmivnq0blh5mfosk0qnpp@4ax.com>
In reply to#892994
On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 18:49:14 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:

>Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 23:57 schrieb William Hyde:
>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 23:28 schrieb William Hyde:
>> 
>>>
>>> Dutch is actually relatively close to German 
>> 
>> Indeed.  When in the Netherlands I found that my knowledge of English, 
>> combined with the decayed remnants of my German, allowed me to read most 
>> signage.   After a week or two I was able to read more complex 
>> inscriptions.
>> 
>> I got through a page of "The Lord of the Rings" in Norwegian by similar 
>> means, though it probably helped that I'd already read it in English.
>> 
>> and could also be regarded
>>> as proper English name for 'German'.
>> 
>> It's an odd situation.
>> 
>> 
>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the French 
>> after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at least make a 
>> stab at the right name.
>> 
>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow the 
>> French model, as do the Spanish.
>> 
>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been 
>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>> 
>>  >
>>  > But the British
>> 
>> Not all the British, see above.
>> 
>>   used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>  > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>> 
>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>> 
>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for 
>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" was a 
>> word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people lived. 
>> Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
>
>There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
>
>German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of Europe 
>and possibly beyond.
>
>Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together 
>about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
>
>Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the 
>times of the Anglo-Saxons.
>
>So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.

Angles - Angle land - England.

>French took the 'Alemanes', which were a people or tribe, which possibly 
>stem from the south-west of Europe and settled in the south-west of Germany.
>
>Romans used a general term (like in many other cases), and called all 
>the people from the North of the limes 'Germanes'.
>
>This word was, of course, not used by the 'Germanes', who also didn't 
>call their country 'Germany' (which, btw, hadn't existed at that time).
>
>
>> So by the time the English felt the need for a word describing the area, 
>> they probably just went with the Latin, the more so as most literate 
>> people at the time were in the church.
>
>English is (in my opinion) actually closer related to Latin than current 
>Italian.
>
>(possibly all the Romans went to England)
>
>
>
>TH
-- 
When Trump was asked by NBC's Kristen Welker if he, as President, 
needed to uphold the Constitution, he replied, "I don't know."

"Preserve, protect and defend. It’s not optional." - Jon Stewart

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#893023

FromWilliam Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-03 14:45 -0400
Message-ID<101nftb$72mj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#893008
Governor Swill wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 18:49:14 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
> wrote:
> 
>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 23:57 schrieb William Hyde:

>>
>> So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.
> 
> Angles - Angle land - England.

One story I have heard (and it is only story, I believe) is that the 
naming came about when England was dominated by Saxons and Danes - 
Angles abounded but didn't rule much of the country as a separate people.

The Danes wouldn't tolerate the place being called anything related to 
the Saxons, and the Saxons had similar feelings about the Danes.  But 
both sides had reasonably good relations with the Angles, who were 
present everywhere.

As I say, just a story.

William Hyde

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#893037

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-04 08:05 +0200
Message-ID<maa5u0Fi1o0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#893008
Am Dienstag000003, 03.06.2025 um 12:17 schrieb Governor Swill:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 18:49:14 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
> wrote:
> 
>> Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 23:57 schrieb William Hyde:
>>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 23:28 schrieb William Hyde:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dutch is actually relatively close to German
>>>
>>> Indeed.  When in the Netherlands I found that my knowledge of English,
>>> combined with the decayed remnants of my German, allowed me to read most
>>> signage.   After a week or two I was able to read more complex
>>> inscriptions.
>>>
>>> I got through a page of "The Lord of the Rings" in Norwegian by similar
>>> means, though it probably helped that I'd already read it in English.
>>>
>>> and could also be regarded
>>>> as proper English name for 'German'.
>>>
>>> It's an odd situation.
>>>
>>>
>>> The English name you after one group mentioned by the Romans, the French
>>> after another, but the actual descendants of the Romans at least make a
>>> stab at the right name.
>>>
>>> The Irish use the same group as the English, but the Welsh follow the
>>> French model, as do the Spanish.
>>>
>>> You have the same situation as Greece, which foreigners have been
>>> misnaming since 500 BC.  And of course there are more such examples.
>>>
>>>   >
>>>   > But the British
>>>
>>> Not all the British, see above.
>>>
>>>    used 'German' instead of 'Dutch' because 'Dutch' was
>>>   > already in use for the language of the Netherlands.
>>>
>>> I wish I could believe they were  that rational, but I doubt it.
>>>
>>> I can find no Anglo-Saxon word for "Germany".  They had words for
>>> various tribes, for the Franks and the Burgundians, and "Denmark" was a
>>> word, but no word for the lands where German speaking people lived.
>>> Perhaps they just called it "the old country".
>>
>> There was no country at that time, where all German speakers lived.
>>
>> German was actually a language, which was spoken in many areas of Europe
>> and possibly beyond.
>>
>> Modern Germany was founded in 1871 and was created by fusing together
>> about 1000 different mainly tiny entities.
>>
>> Prior to that year there was no Germany and certainly also not at the
>> times of the Anglo-Saxons.
>>
>> So, the Anglo-Saxons had no need to name a country, which didn't exist.
> 
> Angles - Angle land - England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln

This is a peninsula in (now) northern Germany, which formerly belonged 
to Denmark.

In ancient time this was Denmark, since  Schleswig Holstein was part of 
Denmark until the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Schleswig_War

So, the people of Schleswig Holstein are more blond and blue-eyed then 
usual Germans and belong to the Scandinavian type and speak to some 
parts also Danish.

This is, because that region was for the most parts of modern history a 
part of Denmark.

So 'angles' were actually Wikings and Danish people.

This was also the case for Cimbern and Teutones.


Germany ended in the North in Hamburg at that time (even if Germany was 
founded a little later).

Today this is all different and that had to do with an earlier and 
devastating war, called 'Great Northern War':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_War

This war is actually important today, because in a way Vladimir Putin is 
influenced by that war and apparently tries to continue that war today.

That is quite an idiotic concept, but nevertheless seems to be the 
motivation of the Russians.


...


TH

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#892985

FromGovernor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-02 01:02 -0400
Message-ID<itbq3ktfq4jqn4go712ctamc581go1fj5r@4ax.com>
In reply to#892947
On Sat, 31 May 2025 17:28:16 -0400, William Hyde wrote: 
>Thomas Heger wrote:
<snip>
>In this case the language died out long ago.  The Prussians were a thorn 
>in the side of the Poles and many attempts were made to conquer them, 
>ending up with a crusade by the Teutonic Order, which succeeded. There 
>was no concerted program to exterminate the language, as far as I can 
>tell, but as in similar circumstances, the language of the conquerors 
>became the language of business, law, and the military, so came to dominate.
>
>
>> Well, the former capital of East Prussia was 'Königsberg'.
>> But as far as I know, they spoke German there, too.
>
>Konigsberg was built on the ruins of an Old Prussian town, 

Twangste.

>so technically only German was spoken there.  But for  centuries before 
>that foundation, the language spoken in that town was Prussian.
>
>For that matter the workers who built the town probably spoke Prussian, 
>Knights not being known for their skill as stonemasons.
>
>> 
>> E.g. Emanuel Kant lived there and I know, that he spoke German.
>
>Kant may have had some Baltic ancestors on his father's side, but the 
>last known Prussian speakers date from more than a decade before his 
>birth.  And I have no reason to believe that his father spoke it.
>
>Cornish died out (mostly) a bit later, in the late 1700s, but it has 
>been successfully revived, with many speakers today.
>
>The difference being that the Cornish know  that they are Cornish, while 
>most people with Old Prussian ancestry think of themselves as Germans, 
>Poles, or Lithuanians.
>
>There is a line in "The Tin Drum" where in 1944 an East Prussian 
>resident says "We were here before the Germans or Russians".  Whether 
>that's a fabrication on Grass' part or such people existed I do not 
>know.  There is no indication that the character speaks Prussian, as far 
>as I can recall.
>
>> 
>> They had a kind of accent an spoke a German dialect in East Prussia, but 
>> that was still German.
>> 
>> Possibly much earlier, there was an ethnic group, which spoke 'Prussian'.
>> 
>> That is actually possible, even if I have never heard about this.
>
>Not possibly, certainly.
>
>Have you heard of the Wends?  Founders of Berlin (well, sort of)? 
>There are still about 80,000 people, known nown as Sorbs, who speak the 
>language in Germany, mostly in Saxony and Brandenburg.
>
>The name "Berlin" itself may come from an old Slavic word for "Swamp".
>
>It seems that all European nations have these fascinating minorities 
>somewhere, largely forgotten, sometimes even by their descendants.
>
>There is a village in southern Poland where the inhabitants speak an 
>unusual version of German.  Their ancestors arrived from the extreme 
>west of Germany hundreds of years ago and their original tongue was 
>strongly influenced by Dutch or perhaps Frisian.  Regrettably, I've lost 
>the  reference I have for this.
>
>
>> It is an extremely obscure idea, to revitalise an old and vanished 
>> language, to honor an ethnicity, which had also vanished.
>
>It may seem obscure to you,but it's actually not that rare.  On the one 
>hand there's the desire to save languages that are nearly extinct, on 
>the other to revive languages that have only recently vanished. 
>Comparatively recently, that is.
>
>Though - and I cannot stress this enough - nobody has to learn these 
>languages.  There is, however, a rock group in Lithuania which has taken 
>to singing some of its works in Prussian.
>
>> 
>> See: there have be tons of wars in what today is Germany.
>> 
>> In the so called 30-yeas-war most of Prussia was depopulated.
>
>Actually East Prussia was relatively undamaged in the 30 years war 
>itself.  It was occupied by Sweden for most of it and saw little 
>fighting, compared to most of the rest of Germany.  The ruler of 
>Brandenburg-Prussia tried his best to remain neutral in the war.
>
>But the Great Northern War which followed a couple of generations later, 
>together with the plague and famine that came with it, killed about 30% 
>of the population.  It was about this time that the last Old Prussian 
>speakers vanished.
>
>
>> 
>> Then there were WW1 and WW2 which depopulated East Prussia totally.
>> 
>> Later came polish and Russian people to East Prussia and the 
>> Germans/Prussians went to Western Germany.
>> 
>> I know some decendents from these refugees and they all speak German and 
>> have certainly no incentive to learn Prussian.
>
>Oh, I bet some do.  It's a large population.
>
>http://www.prusaspira.org/prussian/
>
>> 
>>> Germans who inhabited the region centuries later came to be called 
>>> "Prussians", which was geographically but not ethnically correct, 
>>> except in as much as some of  them had ancestors who were aboriginal 
>>> Prussians.
>>> This sense of the word "Prussian" dominates today to the extent that 
>>> most people do not know anything of the original Prussians.
>> 
>> This is a really weired idea and difficult to understand, because it 
>> contains the word 'Prussian' with too many meanings.
>
>I have tried to compensate in this post by describing the pre-German 
>Prussians as "Old Prussians", which is done in some works about the area.
>
>
>William Hyde
-- 
When Trump was asked by NBC's Kristen Welker if he, as President, 
needed to uphold the Constitution, he replied, "I don't know."

"Preserve, protect and defend. It’s not optional." - Jon Stewart

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#892949

FromGovernor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-01 00:55 -0400
Message-ID<0nln3kh9610shpgp51smfqv3n8oap81k49@4ax.com>
In reply to#892946
On Sat, 31 May 2025 08:41:43 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:

>Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 23:11 schrieb William Hyde:
>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 03:37 schrieb William Hyde:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> KLAATU means I'm the victory of the people in the German 
>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not German!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have read, that this sentence means:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> God will not destroy the Earth (possibly: this time?).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are not thinking like an einstein...Klaatu in German
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not German. Estonian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=klaatu&op=translate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Klaatu barada nikto"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to be composed from three different Eastern European languages:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Klaatu is Estionian and means 'cloak'
>>>>>>> barada is Russian and means 'nobody'
>>>>>>> nikto is Slovak and means 'nobody'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm surprised you didin't add it is also a name of a cat food brand in
>>>>>> Afganastian!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have simply used 'google translator' and used the 'detect 
>>>>> language' function.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is usually quite ok and certainly better than my own knowledge 
>>>>> of Eastern European languages.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have actually some knowledge, but very little, since foreign 
>>>>> languages are not really 'my thing'.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried Russian, Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, Lithuanian at some 
>>>>> times in the past, but with not very much success.
>>>>>
>>>>> E.g. I can still decipher Cyrillic letters and know a few words in 
>>>>> Russian. But that's it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have been in Lithuania and wanted to learn that language. But 
>>>>> the Baltic languages are REALLY hard to learn. (same with Hungarian).
>>>>
>>>> They are reconstructing Prussian, so you will soon have four Baltic 
>>>> languages to learn!
>>>
>>> I'm actually living in the former capital of prussia and can assure 
>>> you, that Prussians speak German.
>> 
>> I am talking, as I said above, about reconstructing Prussian, which 
>> would be unnecessary if anyone spoke it today.
>
>Ok, there was a language called 'Prussian' some time ago, which now has 
>apparently vanished.
>
>Well, that seems to be the fate of a large number of small languages 
>around the globe.
>
>This has mainly to do with things like 'globalisation' or the internet.

Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
and lately Chinese. 

>Also mobility is much greater today than in ancient times. That's why 
>small languages are slowly fading away.

Yep.

>Sorry for that, but that's how this goes.
>> 
>> I think you are talking about Berlin, capital of Brandenburg-Prussia, 
>> later shortened to "Prussia".  I am talking about the original Prussia, 
>> later known as "East Prussia".
>
>Well, the former capital of East Prussia was 'Königsberg'.
>But as far as I know, they spoke German there, too.

Königsberg: German: it. 'King's mountain'; Polish: Królewiec;
Lithuanian: Karaliaucius; Baltic Prussian: Kunnegsgarbs; Russian:
romanized: Kyónigsberg, IPA: ['k??n??gzb??rk]) is the historic German
and Prussian name of the city now called Kaliningrad, Russia. The city
was founded in 1255 on the site of the small Old Prussian settlement
Twangste by the Teutonic Knights during the Baltic Crusades. It was
named in honour of King Ottokar II of Bohemia, who led a campaign
against the pagan Old Prussians, a Baltic tribe.[4]

Ah . . . Conquest!  So, German is spoken in the Capitol while Prussian
fades in the countryside.

>E.g. Emanuel Kant lived there and I know, that he spoke German.
>
>They had a kind of accent an spoke a German dialect in East Prussia, but 
>that was still German.
>
>Possibly much earlier, there was an ethnic group, which spoke 'Prussian'.
>
>That is actually possible, even if I have never heard about this.
>> And I can assure you that the aboriginal Prussians did not speak German, 
>> but Prussian, a language related to Lithuanian.

Old Prussians, East Prussia.

Prussia as any kind of nation state is long gone.
 
>> The descendants of those people now speak German, Polish, or in some 
>> cases other languages, but there is a movement to revive the original 
>> tongue, using old manuscripts as a start (the bible, I believe, was 
>> translated into Prussian).  Which was the basis of my quip, above.  I 
>> don't actually expect that you will have to learn Prussian. Or that 
>> anyone will.
>
>It is an extremely obscure idea, to revitalise an old and vanished 
>language, to honor an ethnicity, which had also vanished.
>
>See: there have be tons of wars in what today is Germany.
>
>In the so called 30-yeas-war most of Prussia was depopulated.
>
>Then there were WW1 and WW2 which depopulated East Prussia totally.

Relatively speaking, the Thirty Years War was more deadly than either
of the two "world" wars.  

>Later came polish and Russian people to East Prussia and the 
>Germans/Prussians went to Western Germany.

Lots of depopulation in Germany also as various factions swept back
and forth across the center of Europe for decades.

It was hell on farmers.  Armies lived on what they could find as they
marched so they looked for farms to strip bare.  Hunger was everywhere
as crops were taken or simply trampled and burned by warring armies.

>I know some decendents from these refugees and they all speak German and 
>have certainly no incentive to learn Prussian.
>
>> Germans who inhabited the region centuries later came to be called 
>> "Prussians", which was geographically but not ethnically correct, except 
>> in as much as some of  them had ancestors who were aboriginal Prussians.
>> This sense of the word "Prussian" dominates today to the extent that 
>> most people do not know anything of the original Prussians.
>
>This is a really weired idea and difficult to understand, because it 
>contains the word 'Prussian' with too many meanings.
>
>TH
-- 
When Trump was asked by NBC's Kristen Welker if he, as President, 
needed to uphold the Constitution, he replied, "I don't know."

"Preserve, protect and defend. It’s not optional." - Jon Stewart

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#892951

FromSiri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
Date2025-06-01 00:26 -0700
Message-ID<101gval$1tdan$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#892949
On 31/5/25 21:55, Governor Swill wrote:
>> >This has mainly to do with things like 'globalisation' or the internet.
> Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
> Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
> Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
> Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
> second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
> and lately Chinese.
>
>> >Also mobility is much greater today than in ancient times. That's why
>> >small languages are slowly fading away.
> Yep.
>

The story is from the boot if Italy to Nice, each village could 
communicate with adjacent villages. There was no one spot it 
switched between Italian and French. Once they drew a border with 
Italy on one side and France on the other, language and other 
customs diverge. It is modern nationalism where governments want 
people to belong to them based on where they drew lines.

It is why Balkans have such a problem. Walk along a road and one 
family is Bosnian, the next is Serbian, then Bosnian. People of 
different 'nations' are so thoroughly mixed, you cannot draw 
lines without separating families or merging enemies.

Young kids get frisky and do not always pay attention to what 
nation they are expected to fall in live with.

-- 
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied.  @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                    /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0        / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

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#892993

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-02 17:43 +0200
Message-ID<ma5v24Fs71pU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#892951
Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 09:26 schrieb Siri Cruz:
> On 31/5/25 21:55, Governor Swill wrote:
>>> >This has mainly to do with things like 'globalisation' or the internet.
>> Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
>> Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
>> Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
>> Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
>> second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
>> and lately Chinese.
>>
>>> >Also mobility is much greater today than in ancient times. That's why
>>> >small languages are slowly fading away.
>> Yep.
>>
> 
> The story is from the boot if Italy to Nice, each village could 
> communicate with adjacent villages. There was no one spot it switched 
> between Italian and French. Once they drew a border with Italy on one 
> side and France on the other, language and other customs diverge. It is 
> modern nationalism where governments want people to belong to them based 
> on where they drew lines.
> 
This was very similar in central Europe.

East of the river 'Elbe' there was a region, where people spoke slavic 
languages.

This is actually a huge family of relatively closely related languages.

It started with Prussians, Sorbs and Wends in the West and went on to 
Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

They all spoke languages, which had gradually changed from West to East, 
but belonged to the same family of languages.

It was much later, that nations were created and languages 'nationalized'.

So, in a way, the people of central Europe were a mixture of all sorts 
of people from all over the place and not an ethnic or political nation.

> It is why Balkans have such a problem. Walk along a road and one family 
> is Bosnian, the next is Serbian, then Bosnian. People of different 
> 'nations' are so thoroughly mixed, you cannot draw lines without 
> separating families or merging enemies.

These families were once all Yugoslavians, and it would have been much 
better, if they stayed Yugoslavians.

TH

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#893072

FromGronk <invalide@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-06-06 00:03 -0600
Message-ID<101u0bn$23b6j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#892949
Governor Swill wrote:> On Sat, 31 May 2025 08:41:43 +0200, Thomas Heger 
<ttt_heg@web.de>
 >> Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 23:11 schrieb William Hyde:
 >>> Thomas Heger wrote:
 >>>> Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 03:37 schrieb William Hyde:

 >>>>>
 >>>>> They are reconstructing Prussian, so you will soon have four Baltic
 >>>>> languages to learn!
 >>>>
 >>>> I'm actually living in the former capital of prussia and can assure
 >>>> you, that Prussians speak German.
 >>>
 >>> I am talking, as I said above, about reconstructing Prussian, which
 >>> would be unnecessary if anyone spoke it today.
 >>
 >> Ok, there was a language called 'Prussian' some time ago, which now has
 >> apparently vanished.
 >>
 >> Well, that seems to be the fate of a large number of small languages
 >> around the globe.
 >>
 >> This has mainly to do with things like 'globalisation' or the internet.
 >
 > Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
 > Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
 > Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
 > Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
 > second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
 > and lately Chinese.

Globalisation has a more economic oriented definition.
But it works here to have as a handle. You kinda have
to go back to the days of colonization to really see
this and its long term effects. Peoples were subjugated
and since the speakers of a language were often small in
number it didn't take much to put a language on the
skids. (Prussian speakers probably weren't small in
number, though.)

The internet doesn't have much to do with the
disappearance of a language. Forms of mass
communication, specifically something like radio
and then movies and tv, can have and did have
a tremendous impact. They brought a dominant
(and uniform) language into (remote) places with
little effort. This can't be undersestimated. Even
regional accents are  disappearing.

 >> Also mobility is much greater today than in ancient times. That's why
 >> small languages are slowly fading away.
 >
 > Yep.
Mobility also has little to do with this process
unless you count the mobility of an incoming
people/culture. Historically if a language is
dying out its because it pool of speakers is
smaller and that's where the absorbation effects
show. Conquered, IOW...

Reconstructing Prussian? Hmmm, youtube has some stuff
purporting to be Prussian. Odd sound.

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#893088

FromGovernor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-07 01:28 -0400
Message-ID<dej74kdqnelitcl9vdj9bb687qbm5mp0uk@4ax.com>
In reply to#893072
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 00:03:26 -0600, Gronk wrote:

>The internet doesn't have much to do with the
>disappearance of a language. Forms of mass
>communication, specifically something like radio
>and then movies and tv, can have and did have
>a tremendous impact. They brought a dominant
>(and uniform) language into (remote) places with
>little effort. This can't be undersestimated. Even
>regional accents are  disappearing.

That bit is thanks to movies, radio and TV.  A version of any given
language, a standard, that is understandable to all speakers must be
used.

News readers usually speak American standard.
-- 
When Trump was asked by NBC's Kristen Welker if he, as President, 
needed to uphold the Constitution, he replied, "I don't know."

"Preserve, protect and defend. It’s not optional." - Jon Stewart

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#893089

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-07 12:35 -0500
Message-ID<1021t8s$h1k3$1@solani.org>
In reply to#893088
On 6/7/25 12:28 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 00:03:26 -0600, Gronk wrote:
> 
>> The internet doesn't have much to do with the
>> disappearance of a language. Forms of mass
>> communication, specifically something like radio
>> and then movies and tv, can have and did have
>> a tremendous impact. They brought a dominant
>> (and uniform) language into (remote) places with
>> little effort. This can't be undersestimated. Even
>> regional accents are  disappearing.
> 
> That bit is thanks to movies, radio and TV.  A version of any given
> language, a standard, that is understandable to all speakers must be
> used.
> 
> News readers usually speak American standard.




It is not just your language, accent, and manner of speaking that have 
become the same. You Americans became literally chickens who are hatched 
inside the same fucking incubator.

You, now, think the same, hate the same, love the same, laugh the same, 
eat the same, are Sheep the same, suck Israel's dicks the same, kill the 
same, mass murder the same, and die the same.

Don't flatter your funny fucking selves.

Sheep motherfuckers..


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#893097

FromGronk <invalide@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-06-07 23:44 -0600
Message-ID<1023801$3lvj4$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#893088
Governor Swill wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 00:03:26 -0600, Gronk wrote:
> 
>> The internet doesn't have much to do with the
>> disappearance of a language. Forms of mass
>> communication, specifically something like radio
>> and then movies and tv, can have and did have
>> a tremendous impact. They brought a dominant
>> (and uniform) language into (remote) places with
>> little effort. This can't be undersestimated. Even
>> regional accents are  disappearing.
> 
> That bit is thanks to movies, radio and TV.  A version of any given
> language, a standard, that is understandable to all speakers must be
> used.

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2025/05/16/southern-accent-decline-virginia-research


> News readers usually speak American standard.

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#893103

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-06-09 07:04 +0200
Message-ID<man86vF2uddU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#893072
Am Freitag000006, 06.06.2025 um 08:03 schrieb Gronk:
> Governor Swill wrote:> On Sat, 31 May 2025 08:41:43 +0200, Thomas Heger 
> <ttt_heg@web.de>
>  >> Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 23:11 schrieb William Hyde:
>  >>> Thomas Heger wrote:
>  >>>> Am Mittwoch000028, 28.05.2025 um 03:37 schrieb William Hyde:
> 
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> They are reconstructing Prussian, so you will soon have four Baltic
>  >>>>> languages to learn!
>  >>>>
>  >>>> I'm actually living in the former capital of prussia and can assure
>  >>>> you, that Prussians speak German.
>  >>>
>  >>> I am talking, as I said above, about reconstructing Prussian, which
>  >>> would be unnecessary if anyone spoke it today.
>  >>
>  >> Ok, there was a language called 'Prussian' some time ago, which now has
>  >> apparently vanished.
>  >>
>  >> Well, that seems to be the fate of a large number of small languages
>  >> around the globe.
>  >>
>  >> This has mainly to do with things like 'globalisation' or the internet.
>  >
>  > Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
>  > Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
>  > Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
>  > Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
>  > second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
>  > and lately Chinese.

German was actually a 'lingua franca', too.


Chinese on the other hand is no language you like to learn for fun.

Especially writing in Chinese is REALLY difficult.

The language itself has also disadvantages.

This can be seen in many translations from Chinese in what they like to 
call 'manuals'.

These little papers reveal a lack of something called 'grammar', hence 
the language has a lack of possibility to express certain subtle ideas.


English has disadvantages, too, but which are quite irrelevant for most 
speakers of English as a second language:

English has an insane amout of diffent words (~one million)

English has also a number of totally illogic rules and special cases.


German has also disadvantages, as it doesn't sound good and has a 
complicated grammar.


Japanese is way too difficult to learn and also based on writing in symbols.


Italian and French sound nice, but that's almost all they are better 
for. Especially writing is difficult in French.


Spanish is actually ok in most aspects and relatively easy to learn.

But the best alternative is 'simplified standard English', which has few 
special rules and much less words (compared to what the British 
upperclass speaks).
...


TH

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#893106

FromSiri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
Date2025-06-08 23:49 -0700
Message-ID<102605q$dam5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#893103
On 8/6/25 22:04, Thomas Heger wrote:
> English has disadvantages, too, but which are quite irrelevant
> for most speakers of English as a second language:
>
> English has an insane amout of diffent words (~one million)
>
> English has also a number of totally illogic rules and special
> cases.

It appears all languages are equally complex among thew 
phonology, lexicon, syntax, and morphology. Possibly excepting 
the first few generation of a creole.

-- 
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied.  @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                    /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0        / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

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#893130

FromGovernor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Date2025-06-10 06:56 -0400
Message-ID<qt2g4khooft1n9cbmh214r0j9eojlo6j0i@4ax.com>
In reply to#893103
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 07:04:30 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:
>Am Freitag000006, 06.06.2025 um 08:03 schrieb Gronk:
>> Governor Swill wrote:> On Sat, 31 May 2025 08:41:43 +0200, Thomas Heger 
<snip>
>>  > Prussian disappeared in the 17th century - before globalization.
>>  > Conquest, military and non military can wipe out small languages.
>>  > Cultures can be absorbed by larger ones leading to loss of a language.
>>  > Russian is as common as Ukrainian in Ukraine. There are a few common
>>  > second languages today.  English, French, Japanese, Spanish, Italian
>>  > and lately Chinese.
>
>German was actually a 'lingua franca', too.
>
>
>Chinese on the other hand is no language you like to learn for fun.
>
>Especially writing in Chinese is REALLY difficult.
>
>The language itself has also disadvantages.
>
>This can be seen in many translations from Chinese in what they like to 
>call 'manuals'.
>
>These little papers reveal a lack of something called 'grammar', hence 
>the language has a lack of possibility to express certain subtle ideas.

English is quite common in Asia.  In photos of cities English signs
can often be seen and not all are 'brand names'.

>English has disadvantages, too, but which are quite irrelevant for most 
>speakers of English as a second language:
>
>English has an insane amout of diffent words (~one million)
>
>English has also a number of totally illogic rules and special cases.

This is largely because English comes from the same Indo European
branch as German but is heavily modified by the Romance languagues,
especially French.   Owing to the Conquest, a huge number of Old
French words entered common usage in England, often delineating class.
For example, Britons ate pigs, but the French conquerors served it
with fine wine and called it pork.

The "i before e except after c" rule (which doesn't work anyway) is
due to this mixing of Teutonic and Latin based words.

Btw, it was nearly half a millenium before English became the language
of royals, nobles and government in England.

>German has also disadvantages, as it doesn't sound good and has a 
>complicated grammar.

Otoh, it's very flexible.  Compound words are common in German and
make it easier to express certain concepts.

>Japanese is way too difficult to learn and also based on writing in symbols.
>
>
>Italian and French sound nice, but that's almost all they are better 
>for. Especially writing is difficult in French.
>
>
>Spanish is actually ok in most aspects and relatively easy to learn.
>
>But the best alternative is 'simplified standard English', which has few 
>special rules and much less words (compared to what the British 
>upperclass speaks).

The importance of language cannot be understated.  From the British
Empire moving forward to the US, English became the accepted language
of virtually all international activity.  Air traffic control is
conducted in English, for example.

The French were rather put out by this brazen displacement of French
as THE international language and make a concerted effort to prevent
English words from entering ther language is it has entered so many
others.
-- 
Wildlife officials in Tennessee found a 500 pound black bear living on
a university campus, a black beard that, let's face it, took the spot
of more deserving white and Asian bears.

8647!

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#893144

FromSiri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
Date2025-06-10 18:23 -0700
Message-ID<102alq7$1jj1h$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#893130
On 10/6/25 3:56, Governor Swill wrote:
> This is largely because English comes from the same Indo European
> branch as German but is heavily modified by the Romance languagues,
> especially French.   Owing to the Conquest, a huge number of Old
> French words entered common usage in England, often delineating class.
> For example, Britons ate pigs, but the French conquerors served it
> with fine wine and called it pork.
>

Modern English spelling is mostly Old English words with Old 
French spelling which ignores a Middle English vowel shift.

Latin and Greek borrowings retain their original spelling 
contrary to English spelling.

-- 
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied.  @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                    /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0        / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

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