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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #665208 > unrolled thread

About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error"

Started byMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
First post2025-07-22 12:33 +0200
Last post2025-08-01 19:52 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 211 — 25 participants

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Contents

  About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-22 12:33 +0200
    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-07-22 15:08 +0000
      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-22 18:17 +0200
        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-07-22 17:56 +0000
          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-22 21:11 +0200
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-07-22 19:53 +0000
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-23 09:01 +0200
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-07-23 11:28 +0000
      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-07-22 16:41 +0000
    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Victo Balahovsky <ihio@tiv.ru> - 2025-07-22 18:50 +0000
    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-29 09:48 +0200
      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-07-29 22:02 +0200
        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-30 07:08 +0200
          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-02 12:31 +0200
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-02 13:52 +0200
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-02 12:01 +0000
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-02 14:17 +0200
                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-02 12:36 +0000
                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-02 17:26 +0200
                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-02 17:14 +0000
                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-02 19:29 +0200
                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-02 18:28 +0000
                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-02 21:22 +0200
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Herman Katsushika <shek@unrkaas.jp> - 2025-08-02 22:13 +0000
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-06 22:39 +0200
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-07 08:54 +0200
                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-07 22:52 +0200
                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-08 07:22 +0200
                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-08 13:51 +0200
                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-08 15:09 +0200
                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Hyram Dubanowski <akaao@dhswua.pl> - 2025-08-08 17:03 +0000
                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-08 20:58 +0200
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-09 00:58 +0200
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-09 13:46 +0200
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-09 20:18 +0200
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-10 20:54 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-10 23:14 +0200
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Leron Warszawski <nkan@rwsirr.pl> - 2025-08-03 14:08 +0000
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-08 22:52 +0200
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-09 00:55 +0200
        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-07-30 10:54 +0000
          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-02 12:35 +0200
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-03 08:13 +0200
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-03 07:39 +0000
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-04 14:04 +0200
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-05 08:48 +0200
                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-05 15:14 +0200
                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-05 16:53 +0200
                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-06 08:34 +0200
                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-06 22:17 +0200
                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-07 08:41 +0200
                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-07 22:13 +0200
                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Abner Habibulaev <baee@lvl.ru> - 2025-08-07 22:07 +0000
                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-08 16:04 +0000
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-08 20:31 +0200
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-08 18:41 +0000
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-09 12:44 +0200
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-09 18:13 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-09 19:40 +0200
                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-09 20:18 +0200
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-09 11:22 +0000
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-09 15:33 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-09 13:40 +0000
                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-09 14:49 +0000
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-09 14:58 +0000
                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-09 15:19 +0000
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-10 06:54 +0200
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-08-10 08:20 -0700
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Shane Dubenkov <bdneb@nbanb.ru> - 2025-08-10 15:33 +0000
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-08-10 09:46 -0700
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-08-10 09:55 -0700
                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 20:34 -0800
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-12-08 13:03 -0800
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-11 07:02 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Freeman Vandroogenbroeck <dronn@reaea.nl> - 2025-08-12 21:42 +0000
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-10 21:05 +0200
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-11 10:17 +0200
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-13 09:53 +0200
                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-10 06:31 +0200
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-10 21:11 +0200
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Murel Kartuzov <kv@ltel.ru> - 2025-08-10 20:35 +0000
                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-11 10:41 +0200
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-11 11:20 +0200
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Darby Myachkov <vkbcm@yaycvbbm.ru> - 2025-08-12 20:45 +0000
                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-13 10:00 +0200
                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-14 07:54 +0200
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Bladimir Natalenko <ilr@el.ru> - 2025-08-14 09:07 +0000
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:17 +0000
                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-17 22:34 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-18 07:52 +0200
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-18 09:36 +0200
                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-18 20:56 +0200
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-18 21:30 +0200
                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-18 21:39 +0000
                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-19 06:12 +0200
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:16 +0000
                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-19 08:03 +0200
                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 14:36 +0000
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:18 +0000
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:20 +0000
                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-19 07:55 +0200
                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-19 19:47 +0200
                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 20:54 +0000
                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-20 09:36 +0200
                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-20 10:20 +0200
                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-20 13:18 +0000
                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:27 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-20 15:36 +0200
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:51 +0000
                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-20 13:56 +0000
                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:58 +0000
                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-20 13:59 +0000
                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:14 +0000
                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-21 14:42 +0000
                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-20 15:56 +0200
                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-20 13:58 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-20 13:51 +0000
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:56 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-21 08:31 +0200
                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-20 10:15 +0200
                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-20 19:00 +0200
                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-21 08:39 +0200
                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:48 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-22 08:20 +0200
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-22 17:07 +0000
                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-23 09:22 +0200
                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-21 13:37 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-21 14:57 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-22 08:26 +0200
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-22 16:53 +0000
                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-23 09:02 +0200
                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-21 21:11 +0200
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Samsath Bakalov <msml@svalsa.ru> - 2025-08-21 19:32 +0000
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-21 21:40 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-21 21:37 +0000
                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-22 08:43 +0200
                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-22 19:59 +0200
                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-24 08:05 +0200
                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-24 22:49 +0200
                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-25 08:26 +0200
                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-25 11:41 +0000
                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 14:43 +0200
                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-26 09:55 +0200
                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-26 10:43 -0700
                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-27 10:33 +0200
                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Khalil Yablochkov <cvb@laoi.ru> - 2025-08-26 20:33 +0000
                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-26 22:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-27 06:33 +0200
                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-27 10:47 +0200
                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-27 12:33 +0200
                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-27 09:35 -0700
                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-28 09:47 +0200
                                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-28 21:38 -0700
                                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-29 09:40 +0200
                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-29 10:22 +0200
                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-29 07:29 -0700
                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-30 09:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-30 10:35 -0700
                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-27 20:27 +0000
                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-28 10:05 +0200
                                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-28 09:47 +0000
                                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-28 12:09 +0200
                                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-28 14:57 +0000
                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-29 09:36 +0200
                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-29 12:00 +0000
                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-29 07:42 -0700
                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-30 09:32 +0200
                                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-30 13:33 +0000
                                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-31 09:53 +0200
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-31 10:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-29 09:19 +0200
                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-29 10:00 +0000
                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-29 12:24 +0200
                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-29 10:33 +0000
                                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-29 13:50 +0200
                                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-30 09:02 +0200
                                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-30 09:53 +0000
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Slobodan Miheenkov <so@kobn.ru> - 2025-08-30 10:23 +0000
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-31 09:13 +0200
                                                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-31 11:50 +0000
                                                                                              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-01 08:27 +0200
                                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-01 08:31 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-02 08:42 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-02 09:40 +0000
                                                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-02 09:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-02 10:28 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Antone De la fontaine <tle@aandot.fr> - 2025-09-02 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-04 15:40 +0000
                                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-30 10:44 +0000
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-31 09:28 +0200
                                                                                    Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-29 11:38 +0000
                                                                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-30 09:12 +0200
                                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-30 12:46 +0000
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-31 09:35 +0200
                                                                                        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-30 13:11 +0000
                                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-30 13:19 +0000
                                                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 15:40 +0200
                                                                                            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-30 13:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-28 14:47 +0000
                                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-25 22:22 +0200
                                                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Chayne Prokurorov <nhp@ruurkrr.ru> - 2025-08-20 19:14 +0000
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:41 +0000
                                      Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-19 02:46 +0000
        Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-30 19:25 +0200
          Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-07-31 21:59 +0200
            Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-01 16:50 +0000
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-01 16:51 +0000
              Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-01 19:25 +0000
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:39 +0000
                Re: About the difference between "time dilation" and "clock error" Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:52 +0000

Page 4 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 11  Next page →


#665442

FromRichard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr>
Date2025-08-09 11:22 +0000
Message-ID<27jHz-v5kjoqlJJIhkdKTE7MUGg@jntp>
In reply to#665435
Le 08/08/2025 à 20:41, Python a écrit :
> Le 08/08/2025 à 20:30, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>> 
>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using such a 
>>> "method" to immediately rule it out:
>> 
>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define 
>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>> 
>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
> 
> In principle it could be used. Good luck expressing Newton law of motion with 
> that but it could be done. Coordinates systems can be quite arbitrary. 
> 
>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined by 
>>> an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the co- 
>>> ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the hands 
>>> with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching 
>>> him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the disadvantage 
>>> that it is not independent of the standpoint of the observer with the 
>>> watch or clock, as we know from experience. We arrive at a much more 
>>> practical determination along the following line of thought."
>>> 
>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the time 
>>> coordinate attached to such an event.
>>> 
>> You probably meant Heger.
> 
> No, Hachel actually thinks that what should be done is what Heger thinks 
> Einstein did. Cranks are funny sometimes...
> 
>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>> 
>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>> with the observation.
>> 
>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>> that it is wrong.
> 
> Same for Hachel 😂

Doctor Hachel is the best theorist of special relativity of all time.

R.H. 

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#665445

FromAthel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com>
Date2025-08-09 15:33 +0200
Message-ID<1077in6$1aobb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665442
On 2025-08-09 11:22:10 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

> Le 08/08/2025 à 20:41, Python a écrit :
>> Le 08/08/2025 à 20:30, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>> 
>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using such 
>>>> a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>> 
>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define 
>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>> 
>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>> 
>> In principle it could be used. Good luck expressing Newton law of 
>> motion with that but it could be done. Coordinates systems can be quite 
>> arbitrary.
>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined by 
>>>> an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the co- 
>>>> ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the hands 
>>>> with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching 
>>>> him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the disadvantage 
>>>> that it is not independent of the standpoint of the observer with the 
>>>> watch or clock, as we know from experience. We arrive at a much more 
>>>> practical determination along the following line of thought."
>>>> 
>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the time 
>>>> coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>> 
>>> You probably meant Heger.
>> 
>> No, Hachel actually thinks that what should be done is what Heger 
>> thinks Einstein did. Cranks are funny sometimes...
>> 
>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>> 
>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>> with the observation.
>>> 
>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>> that it is wrong.
>> 
>> Same for Hachel 😂
> 
> Doctor Hachel is the best theorist of special relativity of all time.

You forgot the quotation marks: "Doctor" Hachel (D.Nutt., Crackpot U.) is ...
> 
> R.H.


-- 
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 38 years; mainly 
in England until 1987.

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#665446

FromPython <jp@python.invalid>
Date2025-08-09 13:40 +0000
Message-ID<-ImxEOjFspCFNQcCnt63lh0Syrg@jntp>
In reply to#665445
Le 09/08/2025 à 15:33, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2025-08-09 11:22:10 +0000, Richard Hachel said:
> 
>> Le 08/08/2025 à 20:41, Python a écrit :
>>> Le 08/08/2025 à 20:30, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using such 
>>>>> a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>> 
>>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define 
>>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>> 
>>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>> 
>>> In principle it could be used. Good luck expressing Newton law of 
>>> motion with that but it could be done. Coordinates systems can be quite 
>>> arbitrary.
>>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined by 
>>>>> an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the co- 
>>>>> ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the hands 
>>>>> with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching 
>>>>> him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the disadvantage 
>>>>> that it is not independent of the standpoint of the observer with the 
>>>>> watch or clock, as we know from experience. We arrive at a much more 
>>>>> practical determination along the following line of thought."
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the time 
>>>>> coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>> 
>>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>> 
>>> No, Hachel actually thinks that what should be done is what Heger 
>>> thinks Einstein did. Cranks are funny sometimes...
>>> 
>>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>> 
>>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>>> with the observation.
>>>> 
>>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>>> that it is wrong.
>>> 
>>> Same for Hachel 😂
>> 
>> Doctor Hachel is the best theorist of special relativity of all time.
> 
> You forgot the quotation marks: "Doctor" Hachel (D.Nutt., Crackpot U.) is ...
>> 
>> R.H.

Here is a rare photograph of "Doctor" Hachel/Lengrand:

<http://nemoweb.net/jntp?-ImxEOjFspCFNQcCnt63lh0Syrg@jntp/Data.Media:1>

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Snake-oil_salesman_Professor_Thaddeus_Schmidlap_at_Enchanted_Springs_Ranch,_Boerne,_Texas,_USA_28650a.jpg

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#665448

FromRichard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr>
Date2025-08-09 14:49 +0000
Message-ID<FOH_7Qo18YM8P8RCXtUFSsMH4go@jntp>
In reply to#665446
Le 09/08/2025 à 15:40, Python a écrit :
> Le 09/08/2025 à 15:33, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :

The professor Python.

Anti-hachelian doctor.


> <http://nemoweb.net/jntp?-ImxEOjFspCFNQcCnt63lh0Syrg@jntp/Data.Media:1>

R.H. 

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#665449

FromPython <jp@python.invalid>
Date2025-08-09 14:58 +0000
Message-ID<jtQeO0j0d3Mx_Zo8Wrh1K53HXsY@jntp>
In reply to#665448
Le 09/08/2025 à 16:49, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
> Le 09/08/2025 à 15:40, Python a écrit :
>> Le 09/08/2025 à 15:33, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> 
> The professor Python.
> 
> Anti-hachelian doctor.

Not "anti-hachelian" : anti-liars, anti-idiots, anti-cranks. You fall in 
all categories, not my fault.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#665450

FromRichard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr>
Date2025-08-09 15:19 +0000
Message-ID<G-s-j8e6ctg_80z23sURgs483vs@jntp>
In reply to#665449
Le 09/08/2025 à 16:58, Python a écrit :
> Le 09/08/2025 à 16:49, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
>> Le 09/08/2025 à 15:40, Python a écrit :
>>> Le 09/08/2025 à 15:33, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
>> 
>> The professor Python.
>> 
>> Anti-hachelian doctor.
> 
> Not "anti-hachelian" : anti-liars, anti-idiots, anti-cranks. You fall in all 
> categories, not my fault.

C'est clair.

Ce ne sera jaaaaaamais de ta faute.

L'excuse du diable.

Sauf qu'un jour, il s'est fait enculer.

- Pourquoi as-tu mangé de l'arbre, dont je t'avais dit qu'il était 
mortel? 

- C'est ma femme, elle m'a dit que c'était bon quand même.

-Et toi, femme, pourquoi lui as-tu dis que c'était bon? 

-Le serpent m'a trompé, c'est lui qui m'a dit que c'était bon.

Et là un phénomène étrange apparait : le bon Dieu ne convoque pas le 
serpent. Il ne l'entend pas. 

 Il juge tout de suite : "Parce que tu as fais cette chose, tu ramperas 
sur ton ventre tous les jours de ta vie".

 Il ne l'entend même pas et ne veut rien savoir.

 R.H. 

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#665457

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-08-10 06:54 +0200
Message-ID<mfqmpiFjf55U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#665434
Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>
>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>
>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using such 
>> a "method" to immediately rule it out:
> 
> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define 
> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
> 
> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
> 
>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined by 
>> an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the co- 
>> ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the hands 
>> with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching 
>> him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the disadvantage 
>> that it is not independent of the standpoint of the observer with the 
>> watch or clock, as we know from experience. We arrive at a much more 
>> practical determination along the following line of thought."
>>
>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the 
>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>
> You probably meant Heger.
> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
> 
> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
> with the observation.

Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he 
wrote.

So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not, 
because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.

An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make 
clear, what that story is.

If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and 
only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words 
in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)

That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author 
actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would 
fit to his words.

Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to 
chew for a while.

But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to 
ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by 
'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.

That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that 
Einstein's text could be interpreted.


*('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal, 
also by some kind of radio transmission).

Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has 
not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors mind.>
> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
> that it is wrong.
> 
I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but 
wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under 
consideration.
TH

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#665458

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-08-10 08:20 -0700
Message-ID<c_ucne5Yg-1VJQX1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#665457
On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>
>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>
>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>
>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>
>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>> line of thought."
>>>
>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>
>> You probably meant Heger.
>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>
>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>> with the observation.
>
> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
> wrote.
>
> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>
> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
> clear, what that story is.
>
> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>
> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
> fit to his words.
>
> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
> chew for a while.
>
> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>
> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>
>
> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>
> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors mind.>
>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>> that it is wrong.
>>
> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
> consideration.
> TH
>

Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.

Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".

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#665459

FromShane Dubenkov <bdneb@nbanb.ru>
Date2025-08-10 15:33 +0000
Message-ID<107ae3q$1vrkc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665458
Ross Finlayson wrote:

> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>> consideration.
>> TH
>>
> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow, it's fair to
> say that in Einstein's theory that the only thing in Einstein's theory
> that goes light speed is his mind.
> 
> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".

shut the fuck up, fool; piss off. I fuck your mother in she ass when I 
shit.

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#665460

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-08-10 09:46 -0700
Message-ID<U1GdnbLVoqRzUQX1nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#665458
On 08/10/2025 08:20 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>
>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>
>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>
>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>>
>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>>> line of thought."
>>>>
>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>
>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>
>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>> with the observation.
>>
>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
>> wrote.
>>
>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
>> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>>
>> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
>> clear, what that story is.
>>
>> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
>> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
>> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>>
>> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
>> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
>> fit to his words.
>>
>> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
>> chew for a while.
>>
>> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
>> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
>> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>>
>> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
>> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>>
>>
>> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
>> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>>
>> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
>> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors mind.>
>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>> that it is wrong.
>>>
>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>> consideration.
>> TH
>>
>
> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
> it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
> thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.
>
> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".
>

Einstein, "Think of light's speed as an arbitrarily high unreachable
limit that's not infinity. This way we don't have infinity in our theory
while we kind of do."

The idea is that Einstein has a theory about theories, and sometimes
that's called the "philosophical" side, since he expects his model
physicist to necessarily be provided 100% instructions that are
mathematical and that they're relayable. Then, "relaying infinity,
and mathematically", gets quite involved that Foundations of physics
has that Foundations of mathematics _owes_ physics, and I've said
this about a thousand times, _owes_ physics more and better mathematics
of infinity, and continuity, the more "replete" after the tenuous
"complete" so axiomatized to exist in the modern standard linear
curriculum and tower of results.

So, Einstein didn't have available some of the more relevant aspects
of mathematical infinity, and continuity, while, today we can sort of
say we do.

It's sort of cool that modern physics the Big Science has very well
established the 7-sigmas called dark matter one way and dark energy
another, and very well established non-locality with regards to usual
theories our premier theories the GR and QM, because very many or mostly
all the particulars fields or sectors in physics, have otherwise
their usual more or less well-known empirically evident "effects", say,
so that we can rather readily show lots of 20'th century hand-waving,
fudge-coating, wall-papering, coattail-riding non-scientific
not-physicsts not-mathematicians the door.

"Cube wall: a door."




[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#665461

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-08-10 09:55 -0700
Message-ID<V9WcnRBt9qdtUwX1nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#665460
On 08/10/2025 09:46 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 08/10/2025 08:20 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>>
>>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>>
>>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>>>
>>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>>>> line of thought."
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>>
>>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>>
>>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>>> with the observation.
>>>
>>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
>>> wrote.
>>>
>>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
>>> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>>>
>>> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
>>> clear, what that story is.
>>>
>>> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
>>> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
>>> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>>>
>>> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
>>> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
>>> fit to his words.
>>>
>>> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
>>> chew for a while.
>>>
>>> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
>>> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
>>> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>>>
>>> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
>>> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>>>
>>>
>>> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
>>> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>>>
>>> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
>>> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors
>>> mind.>
>>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>>> that it is wrong.
>>>>
>>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>>> consideration.
>>> TH
>>>
>>
>> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
>> it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
>> thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.
>>
>> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".
>>
>
> Einstein, "Think of light's speed as an arbitrarily high unreachable
> limit that's not infinity. This way we don't have infinity in our theory
> while we kind of do."
>
> The idea is that Einstein has a theory about theories, and sometimes
> that's called the "philosophical" side, since he expects his model
> physicist to necessarily be provided 100% instructions that are
> mathematical and that they're relayable. Then, "relaying infinity,
> and mathematically", gets quite involved that Foundations of physics
> has that Foundations of mathematics _owes_ physics, and I've said
> this about a thousand times, _owes_ physics more and better mathematics
> of infinity, and continuity, the more "replete" after the tenuous
> "complete" so axiomatized to exist in the modern standard linear
> curriculum and tower of results.
>
> So, Einstein didn't have available some of the more relevant aspects
> of mathematical infinity, and continuity, while, today we can sort of
> say we do.
>
> It's sort of cool that modern physics the Big Science has very well
> established the 7-sigmas called dark matter one way and dark energy
> another, and very well established non-locality with regards to usual
> theories our premier theories the GR and QM, because very many or mostly
> all the particulars fields or sectors in physics, have otherwise
> their usual more or less well-known empirically evident "effects", say,
> so that we can rather readily show lots of 20'th century hand-waving,
> fudge-coating, wall-papering, coattail-riding non-scientific
> not-physicsts not-mathematicians the door.
>
> "Cube wall: a door."
>
>
>
>
>

Here in one of my recend podcasts "Logos 2000: Foundations briefly" you
can find an hour or so spoken description of the requirements and
desiderata of mathematical foundations of continuity, then infinity,
more and better and required and paleo-classical and post-modern,
"A Theory", a study of Foundations so briefly, that things like
"giant mechanical thorough reasoners" arrive at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjtXZ5mBVOc

One of my favorite books of Einstein is "Out of My Later Years",
he most thoroughly if delicately establishes a "the time" and
two separate "spacial" and "spatial" definitions for SR and GR,
and _does_ establish that RoS is non-local, since his requirements
of "a good theory, eventually" is a total field theory.

Since it's his last word, Einstein's, "Out of My Later Years",
then is for making both a critical and a generous reading of it,
if it's supposed to be right at all and not merely so much nothing.

Yeah I figure I've written some thousands of essays to
sci.math.relativity, many quite longer than this one.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#668286

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-01-21 20:34 -0800
Message-ID<WOadnQa_sLohNez0nZ2dnZfqnPhi4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#665461
On 08/10/2025 09:55 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 08/10/2025 09:46 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 08/10/2025 08:20 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>>>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>>>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>>>
>>>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>>>>
>>>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>>>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>>>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>>>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>>>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>>>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>>>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>>>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>>>>> line of thought."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>>>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>>>> with the observation.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
>>>> wrote.
>>>>
>>>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
>>>> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>>>>
>>>> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
>>>> clear, what that story is.
>>>>
>>>> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
>>>> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
>>>> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>>>>
>>>> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
>>>> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
>>>> fit to his words.
>>>>
>>>> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
>>>> chew for a while.
>>>>
>>>> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
>>>> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
>>>> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>>>>
>>>> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
>>>> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
>>>> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>>>>
>>>> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
>>>> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors
>>>> mind.>
>>>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>>>> that it is wrong.
>>>>>
>>>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>>>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>>>> consideration.
>>>> TH
>>>>
>>>
>>> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
>>> it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
>>> thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.
>>>
>>> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".
>>>
>>
>> Einstein, "Think of light's speed as an arbitrarily high unreachable
>> limit that's not infinity. This way we don't have infinity in our theory
>> while we kind of do."
>>
>> The idea is that Einstein has a theory about theories, and sometimes
>> that's called the "philosophical" side, since he expects his model
>> physicist to necessarily be provided 100% instructions that are
>> mathematical and that they're relayable. Then, "relaying infinity,
>> and mathematically", gets quite involved that Foundations of physics
>> has that Foundations of mathematics _owes_ physics, and I've said
>> this about a thousand times, _owes_ physics more and better mathematics
>> of infinity, and continuity, the more "replete" after the tenuous
>> "complete" so axiomatized to exist in the modern standard linear
>> curriculum and tower of results.
>>
>> So, Einstein didn't have available some of the more relevant aspects
>> of mathematical infinity, and continuity, while, today we can sort of
>> say we do.
>>
>> It's sort of cool that modern physics the Big Science has very well
>> established the 7-sigmas called dark matter one way and dark energy
>> another, and very well established non-locality with regards to usual
>> theories our premier theories the GR and QM, because very many or mostly
>> all the particulars fields or sectors in physics, have otherwise
>> their usual more or less well-known empirically evident "effects", say,
>> so that we can rather readily show lots of 20'th century hand-waving,
>> fudge-coating, wall-papering, coattail-riding non-scientific
>> not-physicsts not-mathematicians the door.
>>
>> "Cube wall: a door."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Here in one of my recend podcasts "Logos 2000: Foundations briefly" you
> can find an hour or so spoken description of the requirements and
> desiderata of mathematical foundations of continuity, then infinity,
> more and better and required and paleo-classical and post-modern,
> "A Theory", a study of Foundations so briefly, that things like
> "giant mechanical thorough reasoners" arrive at.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjtXZ5mBVOc
>
> One of my favorite books of Einstein is "Out of My Later Years",
> he most thoroughly if delicately establishes a "the time" and
> two separate "spacial" and "spatial" definitions for SR and GR,
> and _does_ establish that RoS is non-local, since his requirements
> of "a good theory, eventually" is a total field theory.
>
> Since it's his last word, Einstein's, "Out of My Later Years",
> then is for making both a critical and a generous reading of it,
> if it's supposed to be right at all and not merely so much nothing.
>
> Yeah I figure I've written some thousands of essays to
> sci.math.relativity, many quite longer than this one.
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#667738

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-12-08 13:03 -0800
Message-ID<z5-cnYlfO7e_oKr0nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#665460
On 08/10/2025 09:46 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 08/10/2025 08:20 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>>
>>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>>
>>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>>>
>>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>>>> line of thought."
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>>
>>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>>
>>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>>> with the observation.
>>>
>>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
>>> wrote.
>>>
>>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
>>> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>>>
>>> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
>>> clear, what that story is.
>>>
>>> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
>>> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
>>> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>>>
>>> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
>>> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
>>> fit to his words.
>>>
>>> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
>>> chew for a while.
>>>
>>> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
>>> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
>>> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>>>
>>> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
>>> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>>>
>>>
>>> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
>>> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>>>
>>> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
>>> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors
>>> mind.>
>>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>>> that it is wrong.
>>>>
>>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>>> consideration.
>>> TH
>>>
>>
>> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
>> it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
>> thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.
>>
>> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".
>>
>
> Einstein, "Think of light's speed as an arbitrarily high unreachable
> limit that's not infinity. This way we don't have infinity in our theory
> while we kind of do."
>
> The idea is that Einstein has a theory about theories, and sometimes
> that's called the "philosophical" side, since he expects his model
> physicist to necessarily be provided 100% instructions that are
> mathematical and that they're relayable. Then, "relaying infinity,
> and mathematically", gets quite involved that Foundations of physics
> has that Foundations of mathematics _owes_ physics, and I've said
> this about a thousand times, _owes_ physics more and better mathematics
> of infinity, and continuity, the more "replete" after the tenuous
> "complete" so axiomatized to exist in the modern standard linear
> curriculum and tower of results.
>
> So, Einstein didn't have available some of the more relevant aspects
> of mathematical infinity, and continuity, while, today we can sort of
> say we do.
>
> It's sort of cool that modern physics the Big Science has very well
> established the 7-sigmas called dark matter one way and dark energy
> another, and very well established non-locality with regards to usual
> theories our premier theories the GR and QM, because very many or mostly
> all the particulars fields or sectors in physics, have otherwise
> their usual more or less well-known empirically evident "effects", say,
> so that we can rather readily show lots of 20'th century hand-waving,
> fudge-coating, wall-papering, coattail-riding non-scientific
> not-physicsts not-mathematicians the door.
>
> "Cube wall: a door."
>
>
>
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#665469

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-08-11 07:02 +0200
Message-ID<mftbl6F2lq3U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#665458
Am Sonntag000010, 10.08.2025 um 17:20 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
> On 08/09/2025 09:54 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>> Den 08.08.2025 18:04, skrev Python:
>>>> Le 07/08/2025 à 22:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas Heger believes that tB is the time the observer at A
>>>>> has visually observed clock B to show at the time tA when
>>>>> the light pulse was sent from point A.
>>>>
>>>> It is interesting to note that Einstein actually considered using
>>>> such a "method" to immediately rule it out:
>>>
>>> Of course Einstein never considered this to be a usable way to define
>>> the time coordinate of a frame of reference. His point was to
>>> explain why this was not a usable way to define the time coordinate.
>>>
>>> (This was probably what you meant with "immediately rule it out")
>>>
>>>> "We might, of course, content ourselves with time values determined
>>>> by an observer stationed together with the watch at the origin of the
>>>> co- ordinates, and co-ordinating the corresponding positions of the
>>>> hands with light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and
>>>> reaching him through empty space. But this co-ordination has the
>>>> disadvantage that it is not independent of the standpoint of the
>>>> observer with the watch or clock, as we know from experience. We
>>>> arrive at a much more practical determination along the following
>>>> line of thought."
>>>>
>>>> This is also what Hachel considers the "right" way to consider the
>>>> time coordinate attached to such an event.
>>>>
>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>
>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>> with the observation.
>>
>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he
>> wrote.
>>
>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not,
>> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
>>
>> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make
>> clear, what that story is.
>>
>> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and
>> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words
>> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
>>
>> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author
>> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would
>> fit to his words.
>>
>> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to
>> chew for a while.
>>
>> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to
>> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by
>> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
>>
>> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that
>> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
>>
>>
>> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal,
>> also by some kind of radio transmission).
>>
>> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has
>> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors mind.>
>>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>>> that it is wrong.
>>>
>> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but
>> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under
>> consideration.
>> TH
>>
> 
> Whether a "generous" or "ingenerous" reading need follow,
> it's fair to say that in Einstein's theory that the only
> thing in Einstein's theory that goes light speed is his mind.
> 
> Or, like the koan, "it is your mind that moves".
> 

Well, possibly...

But I simply doen't care how fast his mind goes, because I'm not 
thinking about his mind, but about an articles, which he had written.

This is why I anaylsed his statements and tried to interpret them in a 
possible way.

If this interpretation isn't, what Einstein had in mind, even if my 
interpretation is possible, then it's Einstein's fault, not mine, 
because it's the authors story, which he tells and not the story of the 
reader.

This is why I would request from a scientific author to make clear, what 
he wants to say and write it down in 'finished' form.

It is not allowed to expect the reader to 'develop' the author's hints 
like a photographic film.

Therefore any statement of the author is taken as if they were cast in 
stone.

Also previous or subsequent statements in other media or on other 
occasions are irrelevant, because the article is take as if it would be 
the only thing an author had ever written.

If this sounds unfair, than I suggest other topics then theoretical physics.


TH

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#665478

FromFreeman Vandroogenbroeck <dronn@reaea.nl>
Date2025-08-12 21:42 +0000
Message-ID<107gcgc$3i7bj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665469
Thomas Heger wrote:

> If this interpretation isn't, what Einstein had in mind, even if my
> interpretation is possible, then it's Einstein's fault, not mine,
> because it's the authors story, which he tells and not the story of the
> reader.
> 
> This is why I would request from a scientific author to make clear, what
> he wants to say and write it down in 'finished' form.

good point, when you start writing a paper you already know the paper, as
the reason for, you start writing it.

 𝗥𝘂𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗸𝗲_𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗲𝗱_𝗻𝘂𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗼𝘂𝘀_𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗲𝗶𝗴𝗻_𝗳𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀_𝗶𝗻_𝗨𝗸𝗿𝗮𝗶𝗻𝗲__𝗡𝗬𝗧
US, Colombian, and Danish nationals were reportedly among those who died
in an attack on a training camp in central Ukraine
https://r%74.com/ru%73sia/622814-russian-strike-foreign-fighters-ukraine/
A Russian strike in late July dealt a major blow to foreign mercenaries in
Ukraine, when it hit a training camp set up by Ukrainian military
intelligence, the 𝗡𝗲𝘄_𝗬𝗼𝗿𝗸_𝗧𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀 reported on Tuesday.

It didn’t end for them like in that TV series, didn’t it? Iraq, Libya,
Afghanistan, Syria, Yugoslavia etc

Us military is just as much talk as their supreme leader

Of course! Shit scared of ground wars!!!. But fucking mighty on bombing
innocent people.

Soldiers of fortune, Come and die in Ukraine for 3000 devaluated US
dollars a month

I would be happy to see Russia liberate Odessa ASAP.

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#665464

From"Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2025-08-10 21:05 +0200
Message-ID<107aqho$23boc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665457
Den 10.08.2025 06:54, skrev Thomas Heger:
> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>
>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>> with the observation.
> 
> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he 
> wrote.


Einstein:
   "If at the point A of space there is a clock, an observer at A
    can determine the time values of events in the immediate proximity
    of A by finding the positions of the hands which are simultaneous
    with these events.
    If there is at the point B of space another clock in all respects
    resembling the one at A, it is possible for an observer at B to
    determine the time values of events in the immediate neighbourhood
    of B.
   " >
> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not, 
> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.


So you know that the clock at B wasn't visually observed by
the observer at A.



-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#665471

FromAthel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com>
Date2025-08-11 10:17 +0200
Message-ID<107c8u7$2dp95$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665457
On 2025-08-10 04:54:29 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> Am Freitag000008, 08.08.2025 um 20:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>> 
>> [ … ]

>> 
>> You probably meant Heger.
>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>> 
>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>> with the observation.
> 
> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he wrote.
> 
> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or not, 
> because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.

Did you forget your duty when you assembled your list of 400 or more 
errors in Einstein's paper that you thought you had found?
> 
> An author tells a story which he wants to tell. It's his duty to make 
> clear, what that story is.
> 
> If the author makes an error of whatever kind, this error is his and 
> only his. Especially it wouldn't be my error, if I interpret his words 
> in a legal way. (if not, that would be my error, of course)
> 
> That's why I have all rights to make guesses about what the author 
> actually tries to say by searching for an interpretation, which would 
> fit to his words.
> 
> Upon the interpretation of Einstein's synchronization method I had to 
> chew for a while.
> 
> But the only fitting solution was, that Einstein actually wanted to 
> ignore the delay and take the apparent reading of the remote time by 
> 'visually'* reading the remote clock as remote time.
> 
> That is, of course, nonsense, but is actually the only way that 
> Einstein's text could be interpreted.
> 
> 
> *('visually' is meant as any kind of receiving and decoding a signal, 
> also by some kind of radio transmission).
> 
> Entirely irrelevant is, what an author actually wanted to say, but has 
> not written, because the reader isn't supposed to read the authors 
> mind.>
>> When Heger has got one idea into his head, he will never admit
>> that it is wrong.
>> 
> I wrote several times already already, that this would be wrong, but 
> wouldn't be my fault, because I'm NOT the author of the text under 
> consideration.
> TH


-- 
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 38 years; mainly 
in England until 1987.

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#665479

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-08-13 09:53 +0200
Message-ID<mg2ud2FabqU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#665471
Am Montag000011, 11.08.2025 um 10:17 schrieb Athel Cornish-Bowden:
...
>>> You probably meant Heger.
>>> But Heger doesn't know what a time coordinate is.
>>>
>>> Heger's problem is that when he read Einstein's sync method
>>> for the first time, he didn't understand that clock A
>>> and clock B were read by local observers, he thought they
>>> both were visually observed by an observer at A.
>>> And then the transit time must be added to the time observed
>>> in the telescope to find what the B clock showed simultaneous
>>> with the observation.
>>
>> Well, I read a text and assume, that the author actually meant what he 
>> wrote.
>>
>> So, I take every single word verbatim, whether that makes sense or 
>> not, because it isn't my duty to correct a text which I'm reading.
> 
> Did you forget your duty when you assembled your list of 400 or more 
> errors in Einstein's paper that you thought you had found?


I don't give a shit about what Einstein actually wanted to say and 
didn't, because I'm dealing with a printed text.

This text 'is as it is', meaning, that what is printed, that is part of 
the text and what is not printed isn't.

That could eventually sound unfair, but those are the rules in science.


It is therefor not my intention to 'beautify' the text in any way.

I have to deal with the text as it is.


The author has some duties, too, mainly to tell his story in a 
comprehensive way.

(I as a reader have no duties at all, because reading is voluntarily.)

Now we are dealing with 'theoretical physics' here, which has some extra 
rules.

Especially this branch of physics requires mathematical correctness and 
doesn't allow any kind of error.

This is why you can separate any statement from it's 'environement', 
because theoretical physics requires, that all statements the text is 
composed of are also valid themselves.

...

TH

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#665456

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-08-10 06:31 +0200
Message-ID<mfqleeFjf55U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#665422
Am Donnerstag000007, 07.08.2025 um 22:13 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
> Den 07.08.2025 08:41, skrev Thomas Heger:
>> Am Mittwoch000006, 06.08.2025 um 22:17 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>> Den 06.08.2025 08:34, skrev Thomas Heger:
>>>> Am Dienstag000005, 05.08.2025 um 15:14 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
> 
>>>>> Den 05.08.2025 08:48, skrev Thomas Heger:
> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have a 'stationary' position 'A' and and a remote position 
>>>>>> 'B', which are both equipped with their own local time (named 'A- 
>>>>>> time' and 'B-time'), then an observer at 'A' knows only 'A-time'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To illustrate this problem I place 'A' at Houston Space Center in 
>>>>>> Houston, Texas and B at 'Tranquility base', Moon.
> 
>>>>> So A is Houston and B is the Moon in my example posted before.
> 
>>>>>
>>>>> I have posted the following before:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The observer at A reads the time tA when
>>>>>    the light pulse is sent.
>>>>>    The observer at A reads the clock at A!
>>>>>    =======================================
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The observer at B reads the time tB when
>>>>>    the light pulse is reflected.
>>>>>    The observer at B reads the clock at B!
>>>>>    =======================================
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. The observer at A reads the time t'A when
>>>>>    he receives the reflected light pulse.
>>>>>    The observer at A reads the clock at A!
>>>>>    =======================================
>>>>>
>>>>>  These are all the measurements that are done.
>>>>>  Only local clocks are read.
>>>>>  There is no "reading of the remote clock"!
> 
> Thomas Heger believes that clock B is visually read
> by the observer at point A.
> 
> But the observer at A reads the clock at A only!
> It is the observer at B who reads the clock at B!
> 
> This is explicitly described by Einstein:
>   "If at the point A of space there is a clock, an observer at A
>    can determine the time values of events in the immediate proximity
>    of A by finding the positions of the hands which are simultaneous
>    with these events.
>    If there is at the point B of space another clock in all respects
>    resembling the one at A, it is possible for an observer at B to
>    determine the time values of events in the immediate neighbourhood
>    of B.
> "

Sure, that's true and also what Einstein wrote.

But I took an Earth Moon communication as an example, where there wasn't 
anybody to read a clock on the Moon.

If there are actually observers at the remote station with clocks and at 
least some intelligence, we would get a lot of now problems.

For instance we need to find ways to communicate with these observers at 
the remote station to beginn with.

Then we need to negotiate the meaning of time and of time units and how 
long those units are.

It makes no sense to assume, that observers at a place near, say, Alpha 
Centaaury are very interested in Earth time.

But we could eventually convince them to set up a special 'Earth clock' 
there, which is synchronized with Earth time.

Be then we need to tell them 'Earth time', if we want them to set this 
'Earth clock' to Earth time.

This would require from the Earth station to measure the delay from here 
to there.

Then we would add this value to our current time, encode the result and 
send that to the remote station.

But, of course, that wasn't, what Einstein wanted to do.
...


TH

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#665465

From"Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2025-08-10 21:11 +0200
Message-ID<107aqs2$23boc$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#665456
Den 10.08.2025 06:31, skrev Thomas Heger:
> Am Donnerstag000007, 07.08.2025 um 22:13 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>
>> Thomas Heger believes that clock B is visually read
>> by the observer at point A.
>>
>> But the observer at A reads the clock at A only!
>> It is the observer at B who reads the clock at B!
>>
>> This is explicitly described by Einstein:
>>   "If at the point A of space there is a clock, an observer at A
>>    can determine the time values of events in the immediate proximity
>>    of A by finding the positions of the hands which are simultaneous
>>    with these events.
>>    If there is at the point B of space another clock in all respects
>>    resembling the one at A, it is possible for an observer at B to
>>    determine the time values of events in the immediate neighbourhood
>>    of B.
>> "
> 
> Sure, that's true and also what Einstein wrote.
> 
> But I took an Earth Moon communication as an example, where there wasn't 
> anybody to read a clock on the Moon.

So it has nothing to do with Einstein's synchronisation method.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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