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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #662360 > unrolled thread

Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?

Started byThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
First post2025-04-03 22:03 -0700
Last post2025-04-11 09:58 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 82 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-03 22:03 -0700
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-04 05:24 +0000
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-04 07:55 +0200
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-04 22:38 +0000
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-04 10:46 -0700
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:29 -0700
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:37 -0700
          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:02 -0500
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 20:12 -0700
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 20:39 -0700
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 20:50 -0700
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 23:39 -0500
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 23:57 -0500
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-04 14:15 -0700
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-04 15:19 -0700
          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-10 22:58 -0700
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-13 12:17 -0700
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-14 01:13 -0700
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-19 23:50 -0700
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-05 11:17 -0700
          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2025-04-09 13:00 +0000
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-09 13:10 +0000
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Dwaine Hajdú <edajay@njwnwindj.hu> - 2025-04-09 17:29 +0000
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-10 09:20 +0200
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2025-04-10 11:33 +0000
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Arius Babaskin Rui <bnk@aab.ru> - 2025-04-10 12:46 +0000
                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-11 07:19 +0200
                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-11 19:52 +0200
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Douglas Laterza <ou@oodssaa.it> - 2025-04-11 18:04 +0000
                        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-12 10:48 +0200
                          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Bobbie Bakhvalov <ab@vibh.ru> - 2025-04-12 10:39 +0000
                            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-13 09:11 +0200
                              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 01:07 -0700
                                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-14 05:58 +0200
                                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 21:54 -0700
                                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-14 09:31 +0200
                                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 22:21 +0200
                              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Edel Baburoff <obbeub@aerb.ru> - 2025-04-13 10:04 +0000
                          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Corbin Yuan Xiong <nb@rya.cn> - 2025-04-12 10:52 +0000
                            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 11:03 -0500
                          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 08:38 -0700
                            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 09:13 -0700
                          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-12 22:37 +0200
                            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-13 09:24 +0200
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 15:15 -0500
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-10 22:32 +0200
                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 14:06 -0700
                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? x <x@x.org> - 2025-04-10 15:14 -0700
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-11 07:30 +0200
                        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 01:12 +0000
                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:32 -0500
                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-11 15:44 +0200
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 08:17 -0700
                        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 08:53 -0700
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 11:56 -0500
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 14:34 -0500
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:39 -0700
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 14:45 -0500
          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 13:02 -0700
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:57 -0700
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-04-09 15:21 +0100
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 09:44 -0700
        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? "shades@cov.net.inv" <seeu@nt.net> - 2025-04-11 20:16 +0100
          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 07:35 -0700
            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 11:59 -0700
              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 01:08 +0000
                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 20:39 -0500
                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 21:40 -0500
                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 22:49 -0500
                        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 23:08 -0500
                          Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 23:27 -0500
                            Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 04:53 +0000
                              Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 00:48 -0500
                                Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 06:29 +0000
                        Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 04:24 +0000
                  Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-14 02:52 +0000
                    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 23:45 -0500
                      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-04-20 12:05 +0000
      Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-11 06:27 +0200
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-10 21:22 +0200
    Re: Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing? quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 09:58 +0000

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#662670

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-12 08:38 -0700
Message-ID<vGCdnQua1Yh7FWf6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662665
On 04/12/2025 01:48 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Freitag000011, 11.04.2025 um 20:04 schrieb Douglas Laterza:
>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>>>> But particles, atoms, rays and many other physical objects are not
>>>> called 'Körper'.
>>
>> of course not, since are particles and waves, and not koerpers.
>>
>>>> The title 'electrodynamics of moving bodies' had therefore a strange
>>>> connotation in German.
>>>
>>> So you are incompetent in scientific German as well.
>
> Well, actually I'm not a physicist and don't know, how the physicists talk.
>
> I'm an engineer from education and had no personal contacts to the
> physics department. So: possibly they speak in a different idiom than
> engineers do.
>
> To me the title 'moving bodies' (combined with 'electric forces') sounds
> like a synonym for 'sex'.
> ...
>
>
> TH

It's a usual conceit to intercourse then that moving bodies or extended
bodies are about the particle conceit, points geometrically or atoms,
as with regards to the individua of continua, about why extended bodies
are any different than points, and about why moving bodies are any
different from points and extended bodies, then in real analytical
areas, about the differential and the infinitesimal, the infinities
of the continuous.

So, it's for a study of motion itself, vis-a-vis rest itself, and also
of their moments, with regards to time, and the passage of time.

Then, with regards to things like unstoppable forces and immovable
objects, that gets into all the notions of change and state, at all.

With things like the infinitely-many non-zero higher orders of
acceleration, and that the kinematics is always nominally un-linear,
about "Zeno and the zero-eth laws of motion", then for example
there are the usual formalisms of electrostatics and electrodynamics,
yet already that's bound up in the Lagrangian severe abstraction,
when underneath there remains a necessary deconstructive account,
of the objects of mathematics the objects of physics.

So, for particles and positions, and about how they arrive _at_
as well as arrive _from_, moving bodies and extended bodies,
wave mechanics, say, about state and change, has that the usual
classical linear inductive account is sort of a half-account,
that then down from resonance theory is both "particle/wave" duality
and, "wave/particle" duality.


It works out then to be a potentialistic theory, it's the best theory.

That requires a greater, fuller, wider dialectic than the usual
subjective, one-sided, inductive half-account. Then it also
builds those, though.




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#662672

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-12 09:13 -0700
Message-ID<-w2dnaCYMe6ADGf6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662670
On 04/12/2025 08:38 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 04/12/2025 01:48 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Freitag000011, 11.04.2025 um 20:04 schrieb Douglas Laterza:
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>>>>> But particles, atoms, rays and many other physical objects are not
>>>>> called 'Körper'.
>>>
>>> of course not, since are particles and waves, and not koerpers.
>>>
>>>>> The title 'electrodynamics of moving bodies' had therefore a strange
>>>>> connotation in German.
>>>>
>>>> So you are incompetent in scientific German as well.
>>
>> Well, actually I'm not a physicist and don't know, how the physicists
>> talk.
>>
>> I'm an engineer from education and had no personal contacts to the
>> physics department. So: possibly they speak in a different idiom than
>> engineers do.
>>
>> To me the title 'moving bodies' (combined with 'electric forces') sounds
>> like a synonym for 'sex'.
>> ...
>>
>>
>> TH
>
> It's a usual conceit to intercourse then that moving bodies or extended
> bodies are about the particle conceit, points geometrically or atoms,
> as with regards to the individua of continua, about why extended bodies
> are any different than points, and about why moving bodies are any
> different from points and extended bodies, then in real analytical
> areas, about the differential and the infinitesimal, the infinities
> of the continuous.
>
> So, it's for a study of motion itself, vis-a-vis rest itself, and also
> of their moments, with regards to time, and the passage of time.
>
> Then, with regards to things like unstoppable forces and immovable
> objects, that gets into all the notions of change and state, at all.
>
> With things like the infinitely-many non-zero higher orders of
> acceleration, and that the kinematics is always nominally un-linear,
> about "Zeno and the zero-eth laws of motion", then for example
> there are the usual formalisms of electrostatics and electrodynamics,
> yet already that's bound up in the Lagrangian severe abstraction,
> when underneath there remains a necessary deconstructive account,
> of the objects of mathematics the objects of physics.
>
> So, for particles and positions, and about how they arrive _at_
> as well as arrive _from_, moving bodies and extended bodies,
> wave mechanics, say, about state and change, has that the usual
> classical linear inductive account is sort of a half-account,
> that then down from resonance theory is both "particle/wave" duality
> and, "wave/particle" duality.
>
>
> It works out then to be a potentialistic theory, it's the best theory.
>
> That requires a greater, fuller, wider dialectic than the usual
> subjective, one-sided, inductive half-account. Then it also
> builds those, though.
>
>
>
>
>

Koerpers (Koerperen, bodies, corpi) is also an archaic term for abstract
algebra's field, where field is quite overloaded in both mathematics and
physics, in mathematics simply the rational field according to "usual"
arithmetic, in physics the continuous manifold and all geometry, the
setting of forces in field theory.

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#662675

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2025-04-12 22:37 +0200
Message-ID<67facf19$0$12914$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#662665
Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am Freitag000011, 11.04.2025 um 20:04 schrieb Douglas Laterza:
> > J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > 
> >> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
> >>> But particles, atoms, rays and many other physical objects are not
> >>> called 'Körper'.
> > 
> > of course not, since are particles and waves, and not koerpers.
> > 
> >>> The title 'electrodynamics of moving bodies' had therefore a strange
> >>> connotation in German.
> >>
> >> So you are incompetent in scientific German as well.
> 
> Well, actually I'm not a physicist and don't know, how the physicists talk.

Yet you pretend to understand physics.

> I'm an engineer from education and had no personal contacts to the 
> physics department. So: possibly they speak in a different idiom than
> engineers do.
> 
> To me the title 'moving bodies' (combined with 'electric forces') sounds
> like a synonym for 'sex'.

Yes, complete incompetence,

Jan

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#662682

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2025-04-13 09:24 +0200
Message-ID<m6173uFfdkbU6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#662675
Am Samstag000012, 12.04.2025 um 22:37 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
> 
>> Am Freitag000011, 11.04.2025 um 20:04 schrieb Douglas Laterza:
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>>>>> But particles, atoms, rays and many other physical objects are not
>>>>> called 'Körper'.
>>>
>>> of course not, since are particles and waves, and not koerpers.
>>>
>>>>> The title 'electrodynamics of moving bodies' had therefore a strange
>>>>> connotation in German.
>>>>
>>>> So you are incompetent in scientific German as well.
>>
>> Well, actually I'm not a physicist and don't know, how the physicists talk.
> 
> Yet you pretend to understand physics.

Actually physics and engineering are quite related topics.

I had also experience in (organic) chemistry, mathematics and electronics.

Especially chemistry is quite related to some concept in physics, 
because chemists also deal with atoms and particles.

Therefore, I came in contact with the Schroedinger equations at a very 
young age.

Also electronics has connections to physics, especially in semi-conductors.

The rest is a hobby, which I had for a number of decades.

> 
>> I'm an engineer from education and had no personal contacts to the
>> physics department. So: possibly they speak in a different idiom than
>> engineers do.
>>
>> To me the title 'moving bodies' (combined with 'electric forces') sounds
>> like a synonym for 'sex'.
> 
> Yes, complete incompetence,

No!

I was looking for a 'bad' interpretation of the title and asked the 
question, whether or not that could be meant as an insult.

This would be possible, if those moving bodies were human.

TH

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#662616

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-10 15:15 -0500
Message-ID<vt98si$10vnp$2@solani.org>
In reply to#662593
On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
> 
> 
> 
> Jan



How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the 
means to check it?

That "title" hanging there on the wall must be the culprit. You are 
controlled by it. Take one little step outside the prison it placed you 
in, and you'll get toast.





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#662618

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2025-04-10 22:32 +0200
Message-ID<1raliki.1rq7jfm5jomqoN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#662616
Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Jan
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
> means to check it?

Ockham told me.

Jan

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#662620

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-10 14:06 -0700
Message-ID<RpudnVckvYBgr2X6nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662618
On 04/10/2025 01:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>> means to check it?
>
> Ockham told me.
>
> Jan
>
>

Neither "Gaia Hypothesis" nor "Dumb Rock" are any more
falsifiable than "Big Bang" or "Steady State", which aren't.

Ockhamites are by no means the prevalent school,
though, it's popular with shallow inconstant sorts.


Do you, uh, believe everything Ockham says?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhXbcQjTHQ0&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY&index=21

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#662622

Fromx <x@x.org>
Date2025-04-10 15:14 -0700
Message-ID<vt9fs9$3up5r$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#662620
On 4/10/25 14:06, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 04/10/2025 01:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>>> means to check it?
>>
>> Ockham told me.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
> 
> Neither "Gaia Hypothesis" nor "Dumb Rock" are any more
> falsifiable than "Big Bang" or "Steady State", which aren't.
> 
> Ockhamites are by no means the prevalent school,
> though, it's popular with shallow inconstant sorts.
> 
> 
> Do you, uh, believe everything Ockham says?

You know if words do not have meaning than the
words 'true' or 'false' do not have meaning.

Do 'true' ideas have any greater value than
'false' ideas?  Well if those words are meaningless
then maybe not.

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#662637

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2025-04-11 07:30 +0200
Message-ID<18352c8d6edfd424$295013$1498207$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com>
In reply to#662622
On 4/11/2025 12:14 AM, x wrote:
> On 4/10/25 14:06, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 04/10/2025 01:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>>>> means to check it?
>>>
>>> Ockham told me.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Neither "Gaia Hypothesis" nor "Dumb Rock" are any more
>> falsifiable than "Big Bang" or "Steady State", which aren't.
>>
>> Ockhamites are by no means the prevalent school,
>> though, it's popular with shallow inconstant sorts.
>>
>>
>> Do you, uh, believe everything Ockham says?
> 
> You know if words do not have meaning than the
> words 'true' or 'false' do not have meaning.
> 
> Do 'true' ideas have any greater value than
> 'false' ideas?  Well if those words are meaningless
> then maybe not.

As a general rule "true" is a stamp assigned by
the society to ideas of value to allow them
to cruise and "false" is a stamp assigned to
ideas of negative value to block them.
Distinguishing, however, is not easy and
mistakes often happen.

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#662702

Frombertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor)
Date2025-04-14 01:12 +0000
Message-ID<10243c3a11aad2e133e4789aa61af81f@www.novabbs.org>
In reply to#662637
Truth is of a two fold nature - subjective and objective.

Woof-woof woof woof woof-woof

Bertietaylor


"The fancy cannot cheat so well,
As she is famed to do, deceiving elf."
John Keats

--

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#662624

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-10 19:32 -0500
Message-ID<vt9nv0$11719$1@solani.org>
In reply to#662618
On 4/10/25 3:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>> means to check it?
> 
> Ockham told me.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 




Hmm.. Ockham didn't tell you Einstein wrote that letter of 
recommendation himself?

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#662646

Fromnospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date2025-04-11 15:44 +0200
Message-ID<1rameav.1lxbkuams4pn8N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
In reply to#662624
Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/10/25 3:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
> >> means to check it?
> > 
> > Ockham told me.
> > 
> > Jan
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.. Ockham didn't tell you Einstein wrote that letter of 
> recommendation himself?

That is not the simplest explanation.

Jan

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#662648

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-11 08:17 -0700
Message-ID<suqcncWrAZxcr2T6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662646
On 04/11/2025 06:44 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/25 3:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>>>> means to check it?
>>>
>>> Ockham told me.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmm.. Ockham didn't tell you Einstein wrote that letter of
>> recommendation himself?
>
> That is not the simplest explanation.
>
> Jan
>

The simplest explanation is none, yet, then that's
no explanation. How does explanation not exist?

Why does the universe go to all the bother of explaining?

There's quite a significant amount of data to explain.


"Parsimony" may simply be taking the inner product,
then as with regards to the uniqueness of the result,
is a matter of wider concerns.


So, parsimony can readily arrive at that parsimony
is merely slant on the bias, or, parsimony by definition
is merely partial.

Nature's frugality of a sort or for least-action or
for Maupertuis and other definitions what makes least-action,
for example whether it's any old gradient the partial derivative,
"simple", or the sum-of-histories sum-of-potentials with least-action
the least-gradient of the cosmic clockworks, that being,
"simple", or instead you can just explain that you can
ask your phone for delivery since an apple fell on Newton's head ("stupid").


Of course that's a contrived example that most would
say would be too simple to the point of being ignorant
and in terms of the wider milieu, incompetent.



Yeah the simplest, ..., is, none.


Then with regards to theories of evolution applying to
anything, and everything, then gets introduced, for example,
the data of all the theory about it there ever was.


So, "why are we here" can have "Ockham doesn't say".


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#662649

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-11 08:53 -0700
Message-ID<p9ycne8g2-6_pmT6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662648
On 04/11/2025 08:17 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 04/11/2025 06:44 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/25 3:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having
>>>>> the
>>>>> means to check it?
>>>>
>>>> Ockham told me.
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm.. Ockham didn't tell you Einstein wrote that letter of
>>> recommendation himself?
>>
>> That is not the simplest explanation.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>
> The simplest explanation is none, yet, then that's
> no explanation. How does explanation not exist?
>
> Why does the universe go to all the bother of explaining?
>
> There's quite a significant amount of data to explain.
>
>
> "Parsimony" may simply be taking the inner product,
> then as with regards to the uniqueness of the result,
> is a matter of wider concerns.
>
>
> So, parsimony can readily arrive at that parsimony
> is merely slant on the bias, or, parsimony by definition
> is merely partial.
>
> Nature's frugality of a sort or for least-action or
> for Maupertuis and other definitions what makes least-action,
> for example whether it's any old gradient the partial derivative,
> "simple", or the sum-of-histories sum-of-potentials with least-action
> the least-gradient of the cosmic clockworks, that being,
> "simple", or instead you can just explain that you can
> ask your phone for delivery since an apple fell on Newton's head
> ("stupid").
>
>
> Of course that's a contrived example that most would
> say would be too simple to the point of being ignorant
> and in terms of the wider milieu, incompetent.
>
>
>
> Yeah the simplest, ..., is, none.
>
>
> Then with regards to theories of evolution applying to
> anything, and everything, then gets introduced, for example,
> the data of all the theory about it there ever was.
>
>
> So, "why are we here" can have "Ockham doesn't say".
>
>
>

The "nominalism" makes it easy to pick up and put down
theories without much of an ontological commitment to
an ontological status, yet that's not much of an ontological
commitment to an ontological status.

When it's eliminated that over-simplistic theories
can explain theory like physics, then it must be
not an over-simple theory.


When anyone can arrive at scientific principles,
they sort of make sense.


These days there is a more of a resurgence of
"realism", not nominalism, besides "platonism",
not nominalism, and realist platonists can have
theories of science just fine.

That's not much promoting prevarication and equivocation,
univocation in a sense.

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#662650

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-11 11:56 -0500
Message-ID<vtbhju$1217l$1@solani.org>
In reply to#662646
On 4/11/25 8:44 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/10/25 3:32 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/10/25 2:20 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Universe is not an evolved biologcal system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know that? How can one state that as fact without having the
>>>> means to check it?
>>>
>>> Ockham told me.
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmm.. Ockham didn't tell you Einstein wrote that letter of
>> recommendation himself?
> 
> That is not the simplest explanation.
> 
> Jan
> 



For an objective person it is. For a Priest-like person, it isn't.

Priests carry their crosses on their chests, collectivistic scientists 
like you place their titles on their walls. And they both in effect kiss 
those things every now and then. It's a certain bizarre affair; a 
master-servant relationship :)

You tend to forget that the physics community even in 1921 didn't yet 
believe the GR tests were any proof of Einstein's work. They generally 
looked at GR as some sort of absurd hypothesis. That's how Nobel went 
for some much less important work of his.

Physics community found Einstein to be what that letter described only 
years after 1921. Don't try to assume credit for physicists of those 
days where they didn't have it. It won't work with Physfit's dick.

In 1911, nobody gave a serious damn about Einstein, and that letter has 
more to say than just that. Nobody _knew_ Einstein's features that well, 
until decades later. The letter is how Einstein described himself. 
Doesn't matter which friend of his signed it, which amounts to doing 
what an essentially Bozo does for a friend.

But I'm repeating myself, and when I do that, my longtime usenet 
experience tells me I'm not talking to an objective person. I cannot put 
sense into a Priest's head. I just dump him and go on.

Another much more famous example of such fraudulent claim of credit by 
physicists of those times was the matter of black body radiation, 
calling the experimental results a "Catastrophe". As if any of them 
really believed the results to be true.

These little fraudsteres, complete with their titles, of course at the 
time of those experiments were 100% confident something had gone wrong 
with the experiments giving that ridiculous bell shaped result. But 
these same suckers some years later pretended to the world that they had 
immediately grasped the significance of those experiments as soon as 
results were out. Trying to credit themselves with a credit that they 
didn't have!..

As lately as in 1980s, still texts like Eisberg referred to those 
results as "the ultraviolet catastrophe". I have not checked the physics 
books since and do not know whether this sham, this Priestly fraud, is 
still ongoing.

In short, when you confront Physfit's dick, walk carefully. Talk 
carefully. Think carefully. Individuals like you hide from Physfit's dick.







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#662385

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-04 14:34 -0500
Message-ID<vspc8n$paai$3@solani.org>
In reply to#662360
On 4/4/25 12:03 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Stephen Hawking once asked:
> 
> Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?
> 
> If Stephen Hawking would like an answer
> to that question, has he ever consider
> asking a woman that question?
> 
> I don't mean a woman scientist..
> 
> i mean, just any woman.
> 
> Where did Stephen Hawking get the idea he is
> entitled to know the answer?
> 
> 
> Is he Moses?
> 


If you're keen to get that answer, the answer is, "Physfit's dick is the 
culprit, pushing all this forward." Ask Moses.

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#662387

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-04 12:39 -0700
Message-ID<IiqdnXWB2r3IqG36nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662385
On 04/04/2025 12:34 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
> On 4/4/25 12:03 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Stephen Hawking once asked:
>>
>> Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?
>>
>> If Stephen Hawking would like an answer
>> to that question, has he ever consider
>> asking a woman that question?
>>
>> I don't mean a woman scientist..
>>
>> i mean, just any woman.
>>
>> Where did Stephen Hawking get the idea he is
>> entitled to know the answer?
>>
>>
>> Is he Moses?
>>
>
>
> If you're keen to get that answer, the answer is, "Physfit's dick is the
> culprit, pushing all this forward." Ask Moses.
>
>

Shouldn't you be referring to Kosmanson or he to you?

Being the authority in these matters.

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#662388

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-04 14:45 -0500
Message-ID<vspct5$paai$4@solani.org>
In reply to#662387
On 4/4/25 2:39 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 04/04/2025 12:34 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
>> On 4/4/25 12:03 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> Stephen Hawking once asked:
>>>
>>> Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?
>>>
>>> If Stephen Hawking would like an answer
>>> to that question, has he ever consider
>>> asking a woman that question?
>>>
>>> I don't mean a woman scientist..
>>>
>>> i mean, just any woman.
>>>
>>> Where did Stephen Hawking get the idea he is
>>> entitled to know the answer?
>>>
>>>
>>> Is he Moses?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you're keen to get that answer, the answer is, "Physfit's dick is the
>> culprit, pushing all this forward." Ask Moses.
>>
>>
> 
> Shouldn't you be referring to Kosmanson or he to you?
> 
> Being the authority in these matters.
> 
> 


I know you miss Kosmanson's journals. I'll quote his latest one later 
today :)

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#662390

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-04 13:02 -0700
Message-ID<T06dnfy_nONyp236nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#662388
On 04/04/2025 12:45 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
> On 4/4/25 2:39 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 04/04/2025 12:34 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
>>> On 4/4/25 12:03 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>> Stephen Hawking once asked:
>>>>
>>>> Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?
>>>>
>>>> If Stephen Hawking would like an answer
>>>> to that question, has he ever consider
>>>> asking a woman that question?
>>>>
>>>> I don't mean a woman scientist..
>>>>
>>>> i mean, just any woman.
>>>>
>>>> Where did Stephen Hawking get the idea he is
>>>> entitled to know the answer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is he Moses?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you're keen to get that answer, the answer is, "Physfit's dick is the
>>> culprit, pushing all this forward." Ask Moses.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Shouldn't you be referring to Kosmanson or he to you?
>>
>> Being the authority in these matters.
>>
>>
>
>
> I know you miss Kosmanson's journals. I'll quote his latest one later
> today :)
>
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMF_-HprkZs&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY&index=10

"Moment and Motion:  monism and theory, doubling-waves"

I don't ads on my youtube channel so any ads interrupting
the gentle remonstrance are unwanted freeloaders.

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#662389

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-04 12:57 -0700
Message-ID<vspdiv$9crt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#662385
On 4/4/2025 12:34 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
> On 4/4/25 12:03 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Stephen Hawking once asked:
>>
>> Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?

[...]

Perhaps it has no choice because it was simply always there and will be 
always be there, forever... ;^)

Perhaps it was never created because it was just, always there?

Yawn. ;^)

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