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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #654629 > unrolled thread

Langevin's paradox again

Started byRichard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr>
First post2024-07-04 13:30 +0000
Last post2024-07-12 11:04 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 217 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 13:30 +0000
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-04 17:27 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-04 19:04 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-04 20:23 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 21:19 +0000
    Re: Langevin's paradox again hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-07-04 18:27 +0000
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-04 21:06 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 20:54 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-07-04 21:32 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Emette Warszawski Wei <wetz@sssrmwzt.pl> - 2024-07-04 22:14 +0000
    Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-07 23:05 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-07 23:25 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-07 22:49 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:19 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:21 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:37 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 14:17 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 16:07 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-08 17:57 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 12:58 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-08 16:00 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-10 20:51 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 00:26 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Cornelio Somogyi Xing <innli@lcrr.hu> - 2024-07-11 17:20 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Nesdy Pantelas <ssts@ynsap.gr> - 2024-07-11 17:42 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-08 20:30 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 21:05 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 15:12 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:14 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 15:56 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-08 10:57 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:05 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:33 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 14:57 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-08 16:25 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 13:11 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-09 07:33 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-09 13:47 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 16:54 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 17:02 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 17:35 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 17:47 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 19:05 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 19:08 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 19:55 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-09 22:54 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 23:17 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-09 21:36 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 12:42 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 12:25 +0000
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 14:49 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 14:51 +0200
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:17 +0000
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:19 +0000
                          Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-11 13:55 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:33 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-10 18:06 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 16:25 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-10 21:01 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-10 21:24 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 20:41 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 20:47 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 00:02 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-11 14:41 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:39 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:42 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:49 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:56 +0000
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-12 14:03 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 14:11 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 13:44 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 20:36 +0200
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 20:46 +0200
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:11 +0000
                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 13:32 +0200
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 12:23 +0000
                              Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-15 14:26 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-15 14:58 +0200
                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 15:16 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 13:23 +0000
                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 22:18 +0200
                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 20:39 +0000
                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 13:02 +0200
                                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 12:35 +0000
                                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 22:30 +0200
                                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 20:43 +0000
                                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:30 +0200
                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 17:34 +0000
                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:59 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-15 15:28 +0200
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Haynh Molnár Jue <hlrrhm@omrh.hu> - 2024-07-16 17:00 +0000
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-07-12 15:27 +0000
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 17:34 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 17:46 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 20:32 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 20:27 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 22:55 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 20:39 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-11 16:31 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 18:29 +0000
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-11 20:55 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-11 21:04 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-12 12:40 +0300
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-12 11:58 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-14 13:32 +0300
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 15:34 +0200
                          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 15:05 +0000
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Finis Maryanna <mmin@isasmia.net> - 2024-07-14 18:43 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 13:02 +0000
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-14 18:31 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-12 15:29 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 13:55 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 01:34 +0200
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-14 02:02 +0000
                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 19:12 +0200
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Conard Lèmmi <manc@mrm.it> - 2024-07-14 17:27 +0000
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 17:29 +0000
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 17:40 +0000
                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 21:33 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 22:14 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:16 +0000
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-15 08:38 +0200
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 18:01 +0000
                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 18:31 +0000
                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 22:30 +0200
                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:49 +0000
                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 15:02 +0200
                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 13:10 +0000
                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 20:19 +0200
                                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 19:38 +0000
                                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 13:42 +0200
                                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 13:25 +0000
                                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 20:33 +0200
                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 18:56 +0000
                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:31 +0200
                                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 19:35 +0000
                                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:42 +0200
                                                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 18:26 +0000
                                                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 21:38 +0200
                                                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Jean-Michel Affoinez y Lopez-Francos <jmaylf@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 20:35 +0000
                                                              Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-19 21:09 +0200
                                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 19:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:32 +0200
                                                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-22 10:47 +0200
                                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Tyrone Mokrousov <ysonon@yvosvoo.ru> - 2024-07-19 19:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 21:02 +0000
                                                              Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-19 22:27 +0200
                                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 20:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-19 23:21 +0200
                                                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 21:45 +0000
                                                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-20 10:32 +0200
                                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:19 +0200
                                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:21 +0200
                                                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-16 23:07 +0200
                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-16 23:34 +0200
                                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 22:35 +0000
                                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 01:38 +0200
                                                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 22:44 +0000
                                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 01:41 +0200
                                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 00:11 +0000
                                                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 02:14 +0200
                                                          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 00:35 +0000
                                                            Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 03:04 +0200
                                                              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 03:02 +0000
                                                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 07:16 +0200
                                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 19:57 +0000
                                          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 14:06 +0200
                                            Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 13:38 +0000
                                              Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-16 17:27 +0200
                                              Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:05 +0200
                                                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 19:11 +0000
                                                  Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:43 +0200
                                                    Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-17 09:14 +0200
                                                      Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 14:34 +0200
                                                        Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 14:52 +0200
                                                          Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 15:10 +0200
                                                        Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:13 +0000
                                                          Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 15:17 +0200
                                                            Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 15:30 +0200
                                                                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 15:36 +0200
                                                        Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-18 08:40 +0200
                                                          Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 19:54 +0200
                                                            Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 22:41 +0200
                                                              Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-20 13:02 +0300
                                                                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-21 08:26 +0200
                                                            Re: Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 21:25 +0000
                                                            Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-19 12:16 +0200
                                                              Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-19 12:21 +0200
                                                                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-20 08:15 +0200
                                                                  Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-20 16:03 +0200
                                                                    Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-21 08:55 +0200
                                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 18:17 +0000
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 06:37 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:02 +0000
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:17 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 16:39 +0200
                        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:42 +0000
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:32 +0000
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:39 +0000
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 16:41 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-11 13:14 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-12 08:11 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-12 09:32 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-13 09:30 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-13 10:27 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-13 09:36 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-14 10:22 +0200
                  Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-15 09:51 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-15 11:50 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-15 12:20 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 09:10 +0200
                      Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 17:02 +0200
                    Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 09:22 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Codey Pasternak Miao <yno@epaotte.pl> - 2024-07-13 13:01 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-12 11:04 +0200

Page 10 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11  Next page →


#655041 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromPython <python@invalid.org>
Date2024-07-17 15:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<v78h1p$1pkt8$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#655040
Le 17/07/2024 à 15:28, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit :
> Le 17/07/2024 à 15:17, Python a écrit :
> 
>> it can be somewhat funny (and provides occasion to better understand the
>> theory).
> 
> I'm here for that, and more than you think.

What is sad is that the only one not making progress, even regressing,
is you. You're not alone though (Heger, Wozniak, etc.)

During the last decades I've seen only ONCE a crank to change his mind
by being confronting to rational thinking.



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#655043 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromMaciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2024-07-17 15:36 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<17e30391699d1163$12528$558427$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com>
In reply to#655041
W dniu 17.07.2024 o 15:30, Python pisze:
> Le 17/07/2024 à 15:28, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit :
>> Le 17/07/2024 à 15:17, Python a écrit :
>>
>>> it can be somewhat funny (and provides occasion to better understand the
>>> theory).
>>
>> I'm here for that, and more than you think.
> 
> What is sad is that the only one not making progress, even regressing,
> is you. You're not alone though (Heger, Wozniak, etc.)
> 
> During the last decades I've seen only ONCE a crank to change his mind
> by being confronting to rational thinking.

And the hope for the relativistic idiots is
for sure, very small.

> 
> 
> 
> 

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#655075 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2024-07-18 08:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<lfrrnfF22urU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#655032
Am Mittwoch000017, 17.07.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
...
>>
>> Also the present mainstream consensus about this subject can be called 
>> 'SRT', but is different to what Einstein wrote.
> 
> It is still the same one and only Special Theory of Relativity,
> even if the math has evolved since 1905.
> But there is nothing you can calculate from the metric,
> which you can't calculate from the Lorentz transform in
> "On the electrodynamics of moving bodies".
> 
>>
>> There are also a number of other versions, which were created by 
>> people of minor importance, like e.g. also people participating in 
>> this forum.
>>
>> What exactly 'SRT' is, that is not cast in stone, but is a subject you 
>> could debate.
>> ...
> 
> The Special Theory of Relativity is precisely defined,
> and there is no debate of what it is.
> (Among reasonable knowledgeable people.)
> 

You could regard as 'SRT' also the modern version(-s) of Einstein's 
origional theory.

This would be the relations in 'flat' space, where objects fly in 
streigth lateral motion and non-accelerated objects.

I would regard this interpretation of 'SRT' as perfectly possible, too.

This is the 'special' case of GR, which covers accelerated FoRs.

TH

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#655089 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

From"Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2024-07-18 19:54 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<v7bkir$2h9g3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#655075
Den 18.07.2024 08:40, skrev Thomas Heger:
> Am Mittwoch000017, 17.07.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>
>> The Special Theory of Relativity is precisely defined,
>> and there is no debate of what it is.
>> (Among reasonable knowledgeable people.)
>>
> 
> You could regard as 'SRT' also the modern version(-s) of Einstein's 
> origional theory.
> 
> This would be the relations in 'flat' space, where objects fly in 
> streigth lateral motion and non-accelerated objects.


The one and only Special Theory of Relativity is only
valid in "flat spacetime" where there is no gravitation.

In flat spacetime non accelerated objects will move along
straight lines in an inertial frame of reference.
But accelerated objects can move in along any curve depending
on the accelerating force. Obviously!

Examples of accelerated motion in flat spacetime:
https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf

> I would regard this interpretation of 'SRT' as perfectly possible, too.

There is no interpretation of SR where objects can't accelerate.

> 
> This is the 'special' case of GR, which covers accelerated FoRs.

GR simplifies to SR when there is no gravitation.

Both SR and GR "covers accelerated frames of reference".
But SR only in flat spacetime.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#655096 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2024-07-18 22:41 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<R0fmO.79375$ku13.42776@fx13.ams4>
In reply to#655089
Den 18.07.2024 21:02, skrev Stefan Ram:
> "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> wrote or quoted:
>> Both SR and GR "covers accelerated frames of reference".
> 
>    In special relativity, one can still talk about the proper time
>    length of a section of an accelerated dude's world line from the
>    perspective of a non-accelerated guy. 

The proper time is invariant, and doesn't depend on "perspective".

>    But one can't describe the
>    x-t coordinate system that the accelerated dude is using, because
>    for him to be at rest, he's got to assume there's a gravitational
>    field to explain why he feels like he's accelerating. 

Yes, according to the equivalence principle from GR, an acceleration
is the same as gravitation. But you don't have to use this principle
to find the accelerated dude's measurements of the inertial dude.

>    A Lorentz
>    transformation (a "boost") isn't enough to get one to that x-t
>    coordinate system of the accelerated guy starting from the x-t
>    coordinate system of some non-accelerated dude.

You can calculate everything from the Lorentz transform.
dx' =  γ(v)⋅(dx - v⋅dt)     dt' = γ(v)⋅(dt -  (v/c²)⋅dx)

You get differential equations to solve.
You can see it calculated it in the inertial twin's
frame of reference here:
https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf

To calculate it from the accelerated twin's accelerated frame
is a bit more complicated, you get a differential equation
which is hard to solve analytically. It is however much simpler
to simulate it.

See this Java simulation:
https://paulba.no/twins.html

If you won't run it on your computer, you can see screenshots of
a run here:
https://paulba.no/temp/Twins_simulation.pdf

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#655141 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2024-07-20 13:02 +0300
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<v7g1vj$3g3th$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#655096
On 2024-07-18 20:41:13 +0000, Paul B. Andersen said:

> Den 18.07.2024 21:02, skrev Stefan Ram:
>> "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> wrote or quoted:
>>> Both SR and GR "covers accelerated frames of reference".
>> 
>> In special relativity, one can still talk about the proper time
>> length of a section of an accelerated dude's world line from the
>> perspective of a non-accelerated guy.
> 
> The proper time is invariant, and doesn't depend on "perspective".

However, the effor needed to determine it may depend.

-- 
Mikko

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#655188 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2024-07-21 08:26 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<lg3nvjF8fpmU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#655141
Am Samstag000020, 20.07.2024 um 12:02 schrieb Mikko:
> On 2024-07-18 20:41:13 +0000, Paul B. Andersen said:
> 
>> Den 18.07.2024 21:02, skrev Stefan Ram:
>>> "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> wrote or quoted:
>>>> Both SR and GR "covers accelerated frames of reference".
>>>
>>> In special relativity, one can still talk about the proper time
>>> length of a section of an accelerated dude's world line from the
>>> perspective of a non-accelerated guy.
>>
>> The proper time is invariant, and doesn't depend on "perspective".
> 
> However, the effor needed to determine it may depend.
> 
The important point is:

time is a local phenomenon and there exist no such thing as 'proper time'!

It is VERY impotant to consider time as a local phenomenon and not as a 
special case of 'proper time', because otherwise relativity would not work.

So: every inertial observer his his own 'proper time' and carries that 
with him (or better: local time carries the inertial observer with it).

Poincare wrote about this subject and found certain errors in the works 
of Hendrik Lorentz. So Poincare removed unneccessesary terms from what 
he called 'Lorentz transform' and came to a better solution for relativity.

This required to make time local and remove the very idea of 'proper time'.

TH

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#655098 — Re: Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr>
Date2024-07-18 21:25 +0000
SubjectRe: Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<U5ziFwnpBvFpPJS4qYToH0xLyGw@jntp>
In reply to#655089
Le 18/07/2024 à 21:02, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) a écrit :
> 
>   In special relativity, one can still talk about the proper time
>   length of a section of an accelerated dude's world line from the
>   perspective of a non-accelerated guy. But one can't describe the
>   x-t coordinate system that the accelerated dude is using, because
>   for him to be at rest, he's got to assume there's a gravitational
>   field to explain why he feels like he's accelerating. A Lorentz
>   transformation (a "boost") isn't enough to get one to that x-t
>   coordinate system of the accelerated guy starting from the x-t
>   coordinate system of some non-accelerated dude.

Aber nein!

Atmen! Puste sanft!

Es gibt viel weniger Probleme, als Physiker sagen, wenn sie die 
Relativitätstheorie mit beschleunigten Objekten studieren.

Das sind die gleichen Physiker, die Staub in die Luft werfen und sich dann 
darüber beschweren, dass sie nicht mehr sehen können.

Wenn wir die Relativitätstheorie studieren wollen, können wir dies tun, 
indem wir der deutschen Schule (Einstein, Minkowski) zuhören, ebenso wie 
der französischen Schule (Poincaré-das-genius, Langevin).

Wir können es auch tun, indem wir Hachel zuhören.

Was sagt Doktor Hachel?

Die Gesetze der Physik bleiben bei Änderung des Bezugssystems dieselben, 
und die Wirkungen der Physik sind symmetrisch und reziprok durch 
Permutation des Beobachters.

Wenn ich im Weltraum bin, mit einer Rakete nicht weit von mir entfernt, 
sagen wir zwei Kilometer entfernt und stationär, und die Rakete ihren 
Motor startet, wird sie beschleunigen.

Von meiner Position aus werde ich sehen, wie es sich beschleunigt.

Aber die Insassen der Rakete, die mich durch ihre Teleskope beobachten 
werden, werden bestätigen, dass ich es bin, der beschleunigt und sich 
immer schneller von ihnen entfernt.

Abgesehen von der Tatsache, dass es eine Art Schwerkraft geben wird, 
werden sie behaupten, dass sie unbeweglich sind, und tausend Jahre 
später, wenn sie mit der gleichen Beschleunigung fortfahren, werden sie 
weiterhin sagen, dass sie nicht beschleunigen , dass ich es bin, der 
beschleunigt, und dass ihre Vorstellung von der Schwerkraft immer dieselbe 
bleibt.

Was verstanden werden muss, ist die Reziprozität der Wirkungen, gerade 
weil es keinen absoluten Bezug gibt und auch nie geben wird.

Für ein beschleunigtes Objekt wie für ein Objekt mit Galileischer 
Geschwindigkeit gilt:
Die Bewegung existiert nicht. Er ist immernoch.

Die Auswirkungen der Schwerkraft sollten nicht mehr der Rakete 
zugeschrieben werden,
als auf den umgebenden Raum, der im Verhältnis zu einer stationären 
Rakete beschleunigt, auch wenn es für einen Moment kontraintuitiv 
erscheinen mag zu sagen, dass der Raum genauso stark reziprok beschleunigt 
wie die Rakete, und dass sich die Rakete im RR gut verstanden nicht 
bewegt.

Daher die Gleichheit der Eigenzeiten zwischen einer Rakete in 
beschleunigter Bewegung (es sei denn, der Start befindet sich nicht in 
Ruhe, was seinen Startbezugsrahmen verändert) und einer Rakete in 
Galilei-Bewegung in einem gemeinsamen Rennen mit einer gemeinsamen 
Distanz, gemeinsamem Abflug und gemeinsamem Ankommen.

Was Python in diesem Forum verrückt macht, weil er nur Pouic versteht.

R.H. 

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#655104 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2024-07-19 12:16 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<lfusn3FfohpU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#655089
Am Donnerstag000018, 18.07.2024 um 19:54 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
> Den 18.07.2024 08:40, skrev Thomas Heger:
>> Am Mittwoch000017, 17.07.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>>
>>> The Special Theory of Relativity is precisely defined,
>>> and there is no debate of what it is.
>>> (Among reasonable knowledgeable people.)
>>>
>>
>> You could regard as 'SRT' also the modern version(-s) of Einstein's 
>> origional theory.
>>
>> This would be the relations in 'flat' space, where objects fly in 
>> streigth lateral motion and non-accelerated objects.
> 
> 
> The one and only Special Theory of Relativity is only
> valid in "flat spacetime" where there is no gravitation.
> 
> In flat spacetime non accelerated objects will move along
> straight lines in an inertial frame of reference.
> But accelerated objects can move in along any curve depending
> on the accelerating force. Obviously!
> 
> Examples of accelerated motion in flat spacetime:
> https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf
> 
>> I would regard this interpretation of 'SRT' as perfectly possible, too.
> 
> There is no interpretation of SR where objects can't accelerate.


Sure, but 'On the electrodynamics of moving bodies' did not cover 
acceleration.

('acceleration' occured only in connection with electrons)

This went as far as this:

Einstein wrote, that because something is valid for movement along a 
streight line, it must be valid for any polygonal line, too.


But that was nonsense (actually funny nonsense), because that 
'something' was streigth lateral motion with constant velocity.

Now it is not possible at all, to move with constant velocity along a 
polygonal line, because that would cause infinite acceleration in the 
corners.


...

TH

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#655106 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromPython <python@invalid.org>
Date2024-07-19 12:21 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<v7den4$2sqhj$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#655104
Le 19/07/2024 à 12:16, Thomas Heger a écrit :
> Am Donnerstag000018, 18.07.2024 um 19:54 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>> Den 18.07.2024 08:40, skrev Thomas Heger:
>>> Am Mittwoch000017, 17.07.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
>>>>
>>>> The Special Theory of Relativity is precisely defined,
>>>> and there is no debate of what it is.
>>>> (Among reasonable knowledgeable people.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> You could regard as 'SRT' also the modern version(-s) of Einstein's 
>>> origional theory.
>>>
>>> This would be the relations in 'flat' space, where objects fly in 
>>> streigth lateral motion and non-accelerated objects.
>>
>>
>> The one and only Special Theory of Relativity is only
>> valid in "flat spacetime" where there is no gravitation.
>>
>> In flat spacetime non accelerated objects will move along
>> straight lines in an inertial frame of reference.
>> But accelerated objects can move in along any curve depending
>> on the accelerating force. Obviously!
>>
>> Examples of accelerated motion in flat spacetime:
>> https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf
>>
>>> I would regard this interpretation of 'SRT' as perfectly possible, too.
>>
>> There is no interpretation of SR where objects can't accelerate.
> 
> 
> Sure, but 'On the electrodynamics of moving bodies' did not cover 
> acceleration.
> 
> ('acceleration' occured only in connection with electrons)
> 
> This went as far as this:
> 
> Einstein wrote, that because something is valid for movement along a 
> streight line, it must be valid for any polygonal line, too.
> 
> 
> But that was nonsense (actually funny nonsense), because that 
> 'something' was streigth lateral motion with constant velocity.
> 
> Now it is not possible at all, to move with constant velocity along a 
> polygonal line, because that would cause infinite acceleration in the 
> corners.

And you pretend to be an engineer... LOL !


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#655136 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2024-07-20 08:15 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<lg12vgFq3poU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#655106
Am Freitag000019, 19.07.2024 um 12:21 schrieb Python:
...
>>
>> Sure, but 'On the electrodynamics of moving bodies' did not cover 
>> acceleration.
>>
>> ('acceleration' occured only in connection with electrons)
>>
>> This went as far as this:
>>
>> Einstein wrote, that because something is valid for movement along a 
>> streight line, it must be valid for any polygonal line, too.
>>
>>
>> But that was nonsense (actually funny nonsense), because that 
>> 'something' was streigth lateral motion with constant velocity.
>>
>> Now it is not possible at all, to move with constant velocity along a 
>> polygonal line, because that would cause infinite acceleration in the 
>> corners.
> 
> And you pretend to be an engineer... LOL !
> 
Well, at least I have a diploma and am allowed to use the academic 
degree 'Dipl. Ing.'.

But anyhow:

would you really allow constant velocity along 'any polygonal line'??????

To me this is blatant nonsense, because acceleration depends on the 
radius of curvature of the path and in a sharp corner with zero radius 
the acceleration would be infinite.


TH

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#655150 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromPython <python@invalid.org>
Date2024-07-20 16:03 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<v7gg2n$3hi7e$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#655136
Le 20/07/2024 à 08:15, Thomas Heger a écrit :
> Am Freitag000019, 19.07.2024 um 12:21 schrieb Python:
> ...
>>>
>>> Sure, but 'On the electrodynamics of moving bodies' did not cover 
>>> acceleration.
>>>
>>> ('acceleration' occured only in connection with electrons)
>>>
>>> This went as far as this:
>>>
>>> Einstein wrote, that because something is valid for movement along a 
>>> streight line, it must be valid for any polygonal line, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> But that was nonsense (actually funny nonsense), because that 
>>> 'something' was streigth lateral motion with constant velocity.
>>>
>>> Now it is not possible at all, to move with constant velocity along a 
>>> polygonal line, because that would cause infinite acceleration in the 
>>> corners.
>>
>> And you pretend to be an engineer... LOL !
>>
> Well, at least I have a diploma and am allowed to use the academic 
> degree 'Dipl. Ing.'.
> 
> But anyhow:
> 
> would you really allow constant velocity along 'any polygonal line'??????
> 
> To me this is blatant nonsense, because acceleration depends on the 
> radius of curvature of the path and in a sharp corner with zero radius 
> the acceleration would be infinite.


You are a failure of the German Education System clearly. You shouldn't
in no way got a diploma in engineering.


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#655190 — Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2024-07-21 08:55 +0200
SubjectRe: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap)
Message-ID<lg3pnhF8fpmU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#655150
Am Samstag000020, 20.07.2024 um 16:03 schrieb Python:
> Le 20/07/2024 à 08:15, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>> Am Freitag000019, 19.07.2024 um 12:21 schrieb Python:
>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Sure, but 'On the electrodynamics of moving bodies' did not cover 
>>>> acceleration.
>>>>
>>>> ('acceleration' occured only in connection with electrons)
>>>>
>>>> This went as far as this:
>>>>
>>>> Einstein wrote, that because something is valid for movement along a 
>>>> streight line, it must be valid for any polygonal line, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But that was nonsense (actually funny nonsense), because that 
>>>> 'something' was streigth lateral motion with constant velocity.
>>>>
>>>> Now it is not possible at all, to move with constant velocity along 
>>>> a polygonal line, because that would cause infinite acceleration in 
>>>> the corners.
>>>
>>> And you pretend to be an engineer... LOL !
>>>
>> Well, at least I have a diploma and am allowed to use the academic 
>> degree 'Dipl. Ing.'.
>>
>> But anyhow:
>>
>> would you really allow constant velocity along 'any polygonal line'??????
>>
>> To me this is blatant nonsense, because acceleration depends on the 
>> radius of curvature of the path and in a sharp corner with zero radius 
>> the acceleration would be infinite.
> 
> 
> You are a failure of the German Education System clearly. You shouldn't
> in no way got a diploma in engineering.

???

Sideways movement causes acceleration and the rate of sideways change of 
the path is relevant for the amount of acceleration of the object 
following a cuirved path.

The easiest case is circular motion, which causes the centrifugal 
acceleration outwards in a rotating drum.

This rotating drum I take as symbolic equivalence for the sideways 
acceleration needed, to bring the object into a path sideways from 
inertial motion.

But the speed of the circumference of a rotating drum must be equal to 
the assumed contant speed of our inertial observer (or any other object 
moving with constant velocity v), because we had CONSTANT speed as an 
assumption.

Smaller drums need higher omegas (rotations per time unit), because we 
have the requirement for a constant velocity along the path of the object.

Now we have a sharp corner. That is equal to a drum with zero diameter, 
because the radius of curvature is zero at a sharp corner.

Now the equivalent drum had to ratotate with infinite omega, which would 
cause infinite acceleration upon its content.

As this is not possible, we cannot allow sharp corners to be passed with 
constant non-zero speed.

TH

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#654967

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr>
Date2024-07-15 18:17 +0000
Message-ID<pV0qtTN3r2yVQMsv7JmcdoOdDzE@jntp>
In reply to#654944
Le 15/07/2024 à 14:57, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
> Den 14.07.2024 23:49, skrev Richard Hachel:

> The scenario is:
> 
> Terrence is inertial.
> Stella passes Terrence with the speed 0.8c relative to Terrence.
> At the instant when Stella is adjacent to Terrence they both set
> their clocks to zero, and Stella starts her rocket engine so that
> she accelerates at the constant acceleration c per year (≈ 0.97g)
> towards Terrence.
> Some time later, Stella will again pass Terrence at the speed 0.8c.
> 
> The only question I want answered is:
> What do Stella's clock and Terrence's clock show
> at the instant when Stella passes Terence the second time?
> 
> It's two invariant proper times, so they are "absolute".

 Well.

 I hadn't understood the question correctly, and I thought it was the 
question: Stella goes to 0.8c, and immediately Terrence sends Bella 
(a=1al/an²) to join her.
The question was when will Bella join Stella, and where?
The answer is quite simple, since we have x=Vo.To and 
x=(c²/a)[sqrt(1+To²a²/c²)-1]

Let for x=x, two root possibilities To=0 and To=40/9 years

And x=0 (the start) and x=32/9 ly.

It remains to be seen what the clean times will be for Stella and Bella.
I'm responding hastily, and I hope without any miscalculation.
Tr(Stella)=sqrt(To²-Et²)=sqrt(To²-x²/c²)=24/9 years
Other mode Tr(Stella)=To.sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)=24/9 years

Tr(Bella)=x/Vr=x.sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)/Vo=(32/9)*0.6/0.8=24/9 years

We notice that here, the proper times are equal.

But that's not what you're asking, your question is: "As Stella passes 
Vo=0.8c, it accelerates towards the earth (a=1 ly/y²)"

I ask you for a few moments, and I will answer you.

R.H.

 

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#654891

FromMaciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2024-07-14 06:37 +0200
Message-ID<17e1fa635a807464$52$558427$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com>
In reply to#654887
W dniu 14.07.2024 o 01:34, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
> Den 12.07.2024 15:55, skrev Richard Hachel:
>> Le 12/07/2024 à 15:24, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>> Den 11.07.2024 20:29, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>>>
>>>> < snip whining and heavy breathing >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I repeat, during the U-turn, nothing happens at all on the TIME side.
>>>
>>> Except that TIME is passing?
>>
>> Yes.
>> For Stella : tau(stella)=24 hours  tau(Terrence)=40 hours
>>
>> For Terrence : tau(Terrence)=40 hours  tau(Stella)=24 hours
> 
> Why do you write French?
> But we have Google translator.
> 
>> These values ​​are insignificant and useless to calculate to 
>> understand correctly the Langevin paradox, which has no connection 
>> with the acceleration phases, none.
> 
> Langevin's example was a constant speed out, instant turnaround,
> and constant speed back. Instant turnaround means infinite acceleration, 
> which is impossible, and will be a mathematical singularity.
> ----
> 
> Your scenario is trivially simple. Measured in Terrence's inertial


Fortunately, we have GPS now, so we
can be absolutely sure your scenario
tales have nothing in common with real
clocks, real observers or real anything.

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#654857

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr>
Date2024-07-12 14:02 +0000
Message-ID<nlKZz_NUd21_RgKAZ5isKxHPKvY@jntp>
In reply to#654854
Le 12/07/2024 à 15:24, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
> Den 11.07.2024 20:29, skrev Richard Hachel:

>> We admit that the rocket can withstand these terrible accelerations,
>> and Terrence observes that the U-turn takes place in 40 hours.
>> 
>> For Stella, the clean time is shorter, only 24 hours.
> 
> Got it.
> Stella ages 24 hours while Terrence ages 40 hours during the U-turn.

 Absolutely.

 The effect is absolute in this case.

 But beware! Both protagonists, however, have an internal chronotropy of 
their watch which each beats faster than the internal chronotropy of the 
other watch.
This effect is reciprocal.
But we must not confuse internal chronotropy and external time measurement 
(which is a result, and what is INSCRIBED on watches).
I have been asking for this difference to be understood for decades.

 Vo=0.8c

 T1=40 hours 
 T2=24 hours

 

 R.H. 

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#654859

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr>
Date2024-07-12 14:17 +0000
Message-ID<5tdYLkheZgX96lrzn-o1pHvQHZI@jntp>
In reply to#654854
Le 12/07/2024 à 15:24, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
> Den 11.07.2024 20:29, skrev Richard Hachel:

> When Stella's clock shows 9 hours, Terrence's must show 15 hours.
> The distance must be 12 light hours, so the light that Stella  sees
> must have left Terrence 12 years earlier, when Terrence clock
> showed 3 hours.
> 
> OK.

 You're getting closer to the truth, but it's not there yet.
Breathe-exhale.
You do not yet fully understand the genius of well-understood SR.
When Stella reaches her aphelion, everyone agrees that her watch marks 9 
years.
With her powerful telescope, she observes that the earth's clock marks 3 
years.
The problem, between you and me, is that you THINK: "It takes time for the 
light to arrive" and I think "What is seen is seen live, the effects are 
real and reciprocal".
You start from the a priori that the speed of light (value c) is something 
real, because it is physically measured. It goes without saying that the a 
priori is fierce.

R.H. 

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#654862

FromMaciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2024-07-12 16:39 +0200
Message-ID<17e17e166672a665$70084$505029$c2365abb@news.newsdemon.com>
In reply to#654859
W dniu 12.07.2024 o 16:17, Richard Hachel pisze:
> Le 12/07/2024 à 15:24, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>> Den 11.07.2024 20:29, skrev Richard Hachel:
> 
>> When Stella's clock shows 9 hours, Terrence's must show 15 hours.
>> The distance must be 12 light hours, so the light that Stella  sees
>> must have left Terrence 12 years earlier, when Terrence clock
>> showed 3 hours.
>>
>> OK.
> 
> You're getting closer to the truth, but it's not there yet.
> Breathe-exhale.
> You do not yet fully understand the genius of well-understood SR.
> When Stella reaches her aphelion, everyone agrees that her watch marks 9 
> years.

Every relativistic idiot may agree, but,
as anyone can check at GPS - your idiocies
have nothing in common with real markings
of real clocks. Face it, poor brainwashed
fanatic.

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#654864

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr>
Date2024-07-12 14:42 +0000
Message-ID<px2VKl5SVWWNo2mQ0lew6xbSjfc@jntp>
In reply to#654862
Le 12/07/2024 à 16:39, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> W dniu 12.07.2024 o 16:17, Richard Hachel pisze:

> poor brainwashed fanatic.

Mówisz do mnie?

R.H. 

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#654860

FromRichard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr>
Date2024-07-12 14:32 +0000
Message-ID<9nNmv4RGyfYehQY5VxBueHoiiE4@jntp>
In reply to#654854
Le 12/07/2024 à 15:24, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
> 
>> 
>> When she finishes her U-turn, she has aged 24 hours, and she sees the 
>> earth clock which still marks three years (plus 40 hours).

 I said : THREE YEARS AND 40 HOURS !!!!!
 
> So when she see the earth clock it _still_ shows 43 hours? :-D

Damn, do you not understand anything at all or are you doing it on 
purpose?
Pfffff...
I repeat things of fantastic conceptual beauty and obvious physical 
reality as long as one can experience the SR to the end.

When Stella reaches the end of her outward journey. She is 9 years old
on his watch. On earth, for her, only THREE years really passed. ACTUALLY 
THREE YEARS.
It will rotate in a 24-hour day around its aphelion, and it returns on the 
other side, still at 0.8c, and rushes towards the earth.
She aged 24 hours during the U-turn.
She then sees the earth which now marks 40 more hours.
OR three years and 40 hours.

That's why I say that not much happens during the U-turn, and that 
hundreds of crazy heads contradict me because they didn't understand 
anything at all.

And on Terrence's side, what happens during the U-turn?
Nothing more either or almost.
He sees Stella, aged nine, making her U-turn in 40 hours (but with 
Stella's watch which will only age 24 hours). She emerges from the U-turn 
aged 9 years and 24 hours, while he has
(breathe-exhale) 27 years and 40 hours.

Paul, Paul, I beg you to have three cups of coffee, because this is only 
the beginning of the understanding that you will be able to achieve, if 
you UNDERSTAND what I am saying.

Afterwards, there will be the coup de grace with the notion of symmetry 
and reciprocity of the effects of relativistic physics on DISTANCES.

I assure you that it's heavy stuff, that it's far from what Einstein said, 
and if you don't make the effort to understand things that are however 
simple, we're not going to get there.

R.H. 

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