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Entropy and life order

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  Entropy and life order "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-09-08 21:17 -0700
    Re: Entropy and life order Dwain Vaccaro <aawc@anaaacwo.aa> - 2022-09-09 18:06 +0000
      Re: Entropy and life order Trolidan7 <Trolidan7@eternal-september.org> - 2022-12-10 11:27 -0800
        Re: Entropy and life order Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-12-11 17:12 +0100
        Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order) nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-12 12:45 +0100
          Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order) "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 12:17 -0800
            Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order) Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-12 21:43 +0100
              Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order) nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-12 22:50 +0100
                Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order) "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-12-13 12:09 -0800
    Re: Entropy and life order patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 12:00 -0800
      Re: Entropy and life order "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 14:52 -0800
        Re: Entropy and life order patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 15:06 -0800
      Re: Entropy and life order RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-14 14:57 -0800

#591484 — Entropy and life order

species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy
in principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes.
A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather seats....

Mitchell Raemsch

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#591507

mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:

> species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy in
> principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes.
> A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather
> seats....

it does, but having nothing to do with what you say. I suspect a need of 
temporary memories, whereas "lies", fake memories, are also included. 
Which *mechanically* will disappear at the end of the universe. However 
the memories might pop in another manifold, apart from this universe.

but you ladies in america are capitalists. This is another failure.

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#597216

On 9/9/22 11:06 AM, Dwain Vaccaro wrote:
> mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy in
>> principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes.
>> A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather
>> seats....
> 
> it does, but having nothing to do with what you say. I suspect a need of
> temporary memories, whereas "lies", fake memories, are also included.
> Which *mechanically* will disappear at the end of the universe. However
> the memories might pop in another manifold, apart from this universe.
> 
> but you ladies in america are capitalists. This is another failure.

All countries are capitalists.  This is because they pay government
officials money.  The higher the government official, the more they
get paid more money than they could ever possibly eat if converted
to reasonably priced food.

Low entropy is good.

High entropy is evil.

Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.

A statement pulled out of a hat about the universe is
a religious edict, contradicted by simple observations
about astronomy.  No one however has ever produced a
working model of a perpetual motion machine, at least
by some definitions of the term.

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#597288

Trolidan7 wrote:

> Low entropy is good.
> 
> High entropy is evil.
> 
> Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.

*facepalm*


PointedEars
-- 
“Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns
 so that each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization
 of the entire tapestry.”
   —Richard Feynman, theoretical physicist, “Messenger Lecture” 1 (1964)

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#597347 — Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order)

> Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.

File under: How informative can you be?

Jan

(explanation)
Our sister group t.o. has a regular 'Chez Watt' session.
'Chez Watt'-s are used to highlight the most silly, inane, stupid
or just plain dumb entries.

A category in which to file it under is required.
If there are enough there is a monthly Chez Watt vote
to determine the best one.

Let's try to get it sarted here too.

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#597384 — Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order)

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:45:58 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.
> File under: How informative can you be? 
> 
> Jan 
> 
> (explanation) 
> Our sister group t.o. has a regular 'Chez Watt' session. 
> 'Chez Watt'-s are used to highlight the most silly, inane, stupid 
> or just plain dumb entries. 
> 
> A category in which to file it under is required. 
> If there are enough there is a monthly Chez Watt vote 
> to determine the best one. 
> 
> Let's try to get it sarted here too.

Entropy is not negative order. That does not exist.
What does exist is the mix order instead.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#597389 — Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order)

On 2022-12-12 20:17:47 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:

> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:45:58 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.
>> File under: How informative can you be?
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
>> (explanation)
>> Our sister group t.o. has a regular 'Chez Watt' session.
>> 'Chez Watt'-s are used to highlight the most silly, inane, stupid
>> or just plain dumb entries.
>> 
>> A category in which to file it under is required.
>> If there are enough there is a monthly Chez Watt vote
>> to determine the best one.
>> 
>> Let's try to get it sarted here too.
> 
> Entropy is not negative order. That does not exist.
> What does exist is the mix order instead.

Negentropy is a term invented, I think, by Erwin Schrödinger. A 
unfortunate and misleading term, in my opinion, because it doesn't mean 
negative entropy but low entropy.

-- 
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36+ years; mainly 
in England until 1987.

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#597395 — Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order)

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2022-12-12 20:17:47 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:
> 
> > On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:45:58 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic.
> >> File under: How informative can you be?
> >> 
> >> Jan
> >> 
> >> (explanation)
> >> Our sister group t.o. has a regular 'Chez Watt' session.
> >> 'Chez Watt'-s are used to highlight the most silly, inane, stupid
> >> or just plain dumb entries.
> >> 
> >> A category in which to file it under is required.
> >> If there are enough there is a monthly Chez Watt vote
> >> to determine the best one.
> >> 
> >> Let's try to get it sarted here too.
> > 
> > Entropy is not negative order. That does not exist.
> > What does exist is the mix order instead.
> 
> Negentropy is a term invented, I think, by Erwin Schrödinger. A 
> unfortunate and misleading term, in my opinion, because it doesn't mean
> negative entropy but low entropy.

[for others]
The classical entropy is defined as a differential,
so it has no zero point.
That came much later, with Nernst and absolute zero.

But I agree that something like 'negative relative entropy'
would be better. Or in many cases 'information'
The point of having negentropy somewhere
is that there is free energy,
which can (at least in principle) be harvested,

Jan

[and also for others]
What makes 'intrinsically negentropic' so inane
is that all quantum mechanical states have zero entropy by definition,
and that the Schroedinger equation conserves that.
For positive entropy you need quantum statistical mechanics.

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#597450 — Re: Chez Watt (Re: Entropy and life order)

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 1:50:05 PM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote: 
> 
> > On 2022-12-12 20:17:47 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said: 
> > 
> > > On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:45:58 AM UTC-8, J. J. Lodder wrote: 
> > >>> Quantum mechanics is intrinsically negentropic. 
> > >> File under: How informative can you be? 
> > >> 
> > >> Jan 
> > >> 
> > >> (explanation) 
> > >> Our sister group t.o. has a regular 'Chez Watt' session. 
> > >> 'Chez Watt'-s are used to highlight the most silly, inane, stupid 
> > >> or just plain dumb entries. 
> > >> 
> > >> A category in which to file it under is required. 
> > >> If there are enough there is a monthly Chez Watt vote 
> > >> to determine the best one. 
> > >> 
> > >> Let's try to get it sarted here too. 
> > > 
> > > Entropy is not negative order. That does not exist. 
> > > What does exist is the mix order instead. 
> > 
> > Negentropy is a term invented, I think, by Erwin Schrödinger. A 
> > unfortunate and misleading term, in my opinion, because it doesn't mean 
> > negative entropy but low entropy.
> [for others] 
> The classical entropy is defined as a differential, 
> so it has no zero point. 
> That came much later, with Nernst and absolute zero. 
> 
> But I agree that something like 'negative relative entropy' 
> would be better. Or in many cases 'information' 
> The point of having negentropy somewhere 
> is that there is free energy, 
> which can (at least in principle) be harvested, 
> 
> Jan 
> 
> [and also for others] 
> What makes 'intrinsically negentropic' so inane 
> is that all quantum mechanical states have zero entropy by definition, 
> and that the Schroedinger equation conserves that. 
> For positive entropy you need quantum statistical mechanics.

Where does negative order start? How do you define negative order?
There is absolute positive order as the unified field instead.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#597220

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 9:17:59 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy 
> in principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes. 
> A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather seats.... 
> 
> Mitchell Raemsch

Fredrich Nietzsche could not have put it better than you, Mitch.

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#597244

On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-8, patdolan wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 9:17:59 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy 
> > in principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes. 
> > A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather seats.... 
> > 
> > Mitchell Raemsch
> Fredrich Nietzsche could not have put it better than you, Mitch.

Pat? If life came about by mutations and they will never end
what is going to become of man where negative mutations
dominate in a big way? Evolution does predict his die off.
There is a preference to pretend about that.

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#597246

On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 2:52:33 PM UTC-8, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 10, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-8, patdolan wrote: 
> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 9:17:59 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > species emerging to higher order is the opposite of entropy 
> > > in principle. Life consumes and its entropy is what it excretes. 
> > > A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather seats.... 
> > > 
> > > Mitchell Raemsch 
> > Fredrich Nietzsche could not have put it better than you, Mitch.
> Pat? If life came about by mutations and they will never end 
> what is going to become of man where negative mutations 
> dominate in a big way? Evolution does predict his die off. 
> There is a preference to pretend about that.
Absolutely correct Mitch.  The only kind of "-lution" is devolution.  There is no evolution.  Mike Behe taught us that. 

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#597535

On December 10, patdolan wrote:
>> A cow eats grass and you get a higher order or steaks and leather seats.... 
>
> Fredrich Nietzsche could not have put it better than you, Mitch.

Or Darwin, or Mark Twain -

And carbon is an intermediate step on the path to higher 
silicon intelligence.  How does the universe become self aware, hmmm....


https://journals.aps.org/pre/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevE.100.033311


--
Rich
 

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