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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #655860 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-08-12 17:35 +0000 |
| Last post | 2024-09-03 17:13 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 105 — 14 participants |
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Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-12 17:35 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-12 19:39 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-12 21:06 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-12 20:25 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-12 23:16 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-13 12:45 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 12:46 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-13 16:15 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-13 16:37 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 16:50 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-13 19:54 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 21:20 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 21:25 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 22:01 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-13 22:12 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-13 22:42 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-13 23:07 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-13 21:48 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-14 09:40 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-14 17:15 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-14 11:06 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-14 16:00 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-14 22:49 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-15 09:43 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 18:45 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-15 10:29 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 19:34 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 11:42 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 10:45 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 10:55 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 22:20 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-15 10:25 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-15 17:34 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 11:47 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 22:10 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-17 10:50 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-17 13:08 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-18 11:11 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-18 12:06 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-19 10:27 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-19 10:52 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-19 11:51 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-20 17:22 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-22 00:32 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-08-16 22:16 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-14 21:53 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-14 22:04 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 20:27 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-15 11:42 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-14 06:25 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mubarak Schitov <uaka@acikt.ru> - 2024-08-14 05:47 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 12:25 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-14 14:36 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 12:54 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-14 14:59 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-15 13:18 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-14 15:08 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 13:24 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-14 14:39 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 17:37 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-14 18:11 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-14 20:29 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-14 19:20 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-08-14 12:24 -0700
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-14 21:50 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-14 22:36 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 06:50 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Belgov Turpaev <eesssu@unuvpat.ru> - 2024-08-15 10:58 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-14 20:44 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-15 12:46 +0300
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-15 12:10 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 14:29 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-15 14:52 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 16:58 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 17:16 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-15 13:02 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 15:15 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-15 13:44 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 17:31 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 17:37 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 18:04 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 18:26 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 19:46 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-15 18:05 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 20:27 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-16 15:10 +0300
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-16 12:38 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-17 11:14 +0300
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-15 21:12 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-15 21:22 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 21:31 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-14 19:54 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-14 20:47 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-14 19:34 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-14 17:43 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-15 12:22 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-15 17:29 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-08-15 08:13 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-15 12:33 +0300
Re: Space-time interval (2) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> - 2024-08-15 11:24 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-15 13:49 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-17 11:18 +0300
Re: Space-time interval (2) guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2024-08-14 21:01 +0200
Re: Space-time interval (2) film.art@gmail.com (JanPB) - 2024-09-02 17:02 +0000
Re: Space-time interval (2) The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-09-03 17:13 -0700
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-12 17:35 +0000 |
| Subject | Space-time interval (2) |
| Message-ID | <YqTjbAPdSf8P-veYFHQCI8eskLU@jntp> |
The notion of space-time interval should be abandoned because it is complex and leads to nothing, except final errors. What is the space-time interval? A metric, measured in meters. It is mostly an abstract thing that is not very useful. So we set ds²=dl²-c²t². Why and for WHAT? For nothing. For fun. Hachel notation is much more practical, because it does not need the notion of complexes to establish a perfect Pythagoreanism. Hachel does not speak, because he is an immense genius, of the notion of space-time interval, ridiculous and abstract, and he does not use meters, but seconds. That is to say the units of TIME. This is much more practical because from the invariance of ds, which we always wonder what it is, and what it can represent in nature, Hachel goes to the invariance of proper times. It is much simpler and more practical. A proper time is always invariant because it is a tautology, a truism. Hachel then poses Tr²=To²-Et² and speaks in seconds, where physicists stupidly pose -ds²=-To².c²+dl² and speak in meters. Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² Let's pose Tr²=-ds².c² and everything becomes much simpler and much more practical. To²=Tr²+Et² Pythagoreanism is perfect. In plain language: In a frame of reference, the square of the observable time is equal to the square of the proper time of the mobile implemented by the square of the anisochrony taken into account. Practical example: A terrestrial observer in a rocket that will travel for 15 years at 0.8c. He will therefore age 15 years. Will the person in the rocket also age 15 years? We set To²=Tr²+Et² Hence Tr²=To²-Et²=15²-12²=81 Tr=9 years. Simplicity is disconcerting. In general, we don't like it too much. R.H.
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| From | Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-12 19:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <17eb0be94454c63d$265574$505064$c2265aab@news.newsdemon.com> |
| In reply to | #655860 |
W dniu 12.08.2024 o 19:35, Richard Hachel pisze: > The notion of space-time interval should be abandoned because it is > complex and leads to nothing, except final errors. > What is the space-time interval? > A metric, measured in meters. Measured? Get conscious. Have you ever measured interval? Do you know someone who did?
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| From | Python <python@invalid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-12 21:06 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v9dmer$3dtvr$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #655860 |
Le 12/08/2024 à 19:35, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit : > The notion of space-time interval should be abandoned because it is > complex and leads to nothing, except final errors. This is your typical mantra : you read a few popular science stuff, too quickly and nothing more, then you fail to understand the point and put up some fancy idea out of your *ss and as you are a stuffed shirt pompous imbecile you will brag about it for years. Could you consider once to actually take time to *read* papers, articles, courses, whatever and *think* instead of acting like a wanker with your very small pee-pee? > What is the space-time interval? > A metric, measured in meters. Meters, furlong, inches, it doesn't matter. It is a number associated to a pair of events with dimension of a length. > It is mostly an abstract thing that is not very useful. "abstract" means "Richard Lengrand does not understand". For the rest of us abstraction is a virtue of intelligence. > So we set ds²=dl²-c²t². > Why and for WHAT? > For nothing. > For fun. No, because an invariant scalar quantity is what allow to do geometry on top of coordinates systems. > Hachel notation is much more practical, because it does not need the > notion of complexes to establish a perfect Pythagoreanism. "pythagoreanism" is a meaningless word. There is no need for complex numbers when it comes to space-time interval. But even if it would, what the problem? You do have issues with basic math, including complex numbers, this is none of our business. > [snip nonsensical wanking] > Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. For some kind of pairs of event it could be equal to c^2 dt^2 but not for all. I tried (in vain) to explain this to you on f.s.p. > Let's pose Tr²=-ds².c² and everything becomes much simpler and much more > practical. It is not simpler, it is not practical. And it is FALSE. > Simplicity is disconcerting. > > In general, we don't like it too much. No we don't like contradictions and fallacies. You do.
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-12 20:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <3lzcd1NKCT13xkV8yvlh8oaa3Mg@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655864 |
Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : >> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² > > No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. LOL. Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² If ds²=-Tr²c² then -Tr²c²=dl²-c²t² also, -Tr²=dl²/c² -t² And t²=dl²/c²+Tr² When To²=Et²+Tr² T'euh qu'un bouffon, LOL. Un guignol. <http://news2.nemoweb.net/jntp?3lzcd1NKCT13xkV8yvlh8oaa3Mg@jntp/Data.Media:1> R.H.
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| From | Python <python@invalid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-12 23:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v9du3h$3fish$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #655869 |
Le 12/08/2024 à 22:25, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand wrote: > Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : > >>> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² >> >> No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. > > LOL. You'd better read about your own stupidity, Lengrand. > Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² It doesn't matter, it is a matter of convention (+ + + -) or (- + + +) > If ds²=-Tr²c² If by Tr you intend a proper time \tau it may or *not* be possible to find a frame of reference where ds = -\tau^2 c^2. It is impossible for space-like intervals.
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| From | "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 12:45 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v9fdeg$3rh2a$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #655869 |
Den 12.08.2024 22:25, skrev Richard Hachel: > Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : > >>> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² >> >> No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. > > LOL. > > Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf Chapter 1. -- Paul https://paulba.no/
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 12:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <jBxUcP6BzIhx3lL1WyQctHmm7jo@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655889 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 12:44, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : > Den 12.08.2024 22:25, skrev Richard Hachel: >> Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : >> >>>> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² >>> >>> No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. >> >> LOL. >> >> Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² > > https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf > Chapter 1. There are equations that are correct in your pdf, but also equations that are incorrect. Unfortunately, I don't have time to do a thorough search, and to circle in red everything that is wrong and tell you why. Anyway, it would be useless, and I no longer have the courage (I'm old, you know now) to want at all costs to give water to donkeys that are not thirsty. I post here for fun, but I don't want to exhaust myself gesticulating in the void anymore. R.H.
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| From | Python <python@invalid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 16:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v9fpqo$3t7j7$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #655893 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 14:46, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit : > Le 13/08/2024 à 12:44, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >> Den 12.08.2024 22:25, skrev Richard Hachel: >>> Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : >>> >>>>> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² >>>> >>>> No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. >>> >>> LOL. >>> >>> Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² >> >> https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf >> Chapter 1. > > There are equations that are correct in your pdf, but also equations > that are incorrect. > Unfortunately, I don't have time to do a thorough search, and to circle > in red everything that is wrong and tell you why. All equations in Paul's article are labelled, you don't have to draw red circles on them in order to reference them. > Anyway, it would be useless, and I no longer have the courage (I'm old, > you know now) to want at all costs to give water to donkeys that are not > thirsty. This is quite a pathetic excuse for not accepting being proven wrong. Which is what happened. > I post here for fun, but I don't want to exhaust myself gesticulating in > the void anymore. What about the dozens of conspirationist racist rants you post on Usenet every day? Is it for fun too?
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| From | Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 16:37 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <17eb508a738a901b$276075$546728$c2565adb@news.newsdemon.com> |
| In reply to | #655900 |
W dniu 13.08.2024 o 16:15, Python pisze: > Le 13/08/2024 à 14:46, M.D. Richard "Hachel" Lengrand a écrit : >> Le 13/08/2024 à 12:44, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >>> Den 12.08.2024 22:25, skrev Richard Hachel: >>>> Le 12/08/2024 à 21:06, Python a écrit : >>>> >>>>>> Finally, what is ds²? It is just -c².Tr² >>>>> >>>>> No! ds^2 = c^2 dt^2 - dl^2. >>>> >>>> LOL. >>>> >>>> Non : ds²=dl²-c²dt² >>> >>> https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf >>> Chapter 1. >> >> There are equations that are correct in your pdf, but also equations >> that are incorrect. >> Unfortunately, I don't have time to do a thorough search, and to >> circle in red everything that is wrong and tell you why. > > All equations in Paul's article are labelled, you don't have to > draw red circles on them in order to reference them. > >> Anyway, it would be useless, and I no longer have the courage (I'm >> old, you know now) to want at all costs to give water to donkeys that >> are not thirsty. > > This is quite a pathetic excuse for not accepting being proven wrong. > Which is what happened. Don't push him hard, when you were proven that the mumble of your idiot guru was not even consistent you could only answer with a stream of wild insults and slanders.
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 16:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <BvQTUC4elRIT5b7xlEw0XECwk9w@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655900 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 16:15, Python le bouffon a écrit : > All equations in Paul's article are labelled, Yes. But not by me. Not all his equations. R.H.
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| From | "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 19:54 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <v9g6ij$3vsfg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #655893 |
Den 13.08.2024 14:46, skrev Richard Hachel: > Le 13/08/2024 à 12:44, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >> >> https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf >> Chapter 1. > > There are equations that are correct in your pdf, but also equations > that are incorrect. I think you know that all are correct according to SR. > Unfortunately, I don't have time to do a thorough search, and to circle > in red everything that is wrong and tell you why. > Anyway, it would be useless, and I no longer have the courage (I'm old, > you know now) to want at all costs to give water to donkeys that are not > thirsty. You are right, I am not interested in why you claim SR is wrong, but you keep carrying water to the donkey anyway. > I post here for fun, but I don't want to exhaust myself gesticulating in > the void anymore. So you have given up gesticulating about universal anisochrony and why that makes it impossible to have synchronous clocks in Oslo and Paris? Try to explain it again? |> Den 22.07.2024 21:37, skrev Paul.B.Andersen: |>> |>> You know of course that all clocks in the same time zone |>> are synchronous. In France and Norway clocks are currently |>> showing UTC + 2 hour, so my clock and your clock are actually |>> synchronous. |>> |>> Please explain why our clocks are NOT synchronous. |>> (To within few seconds| | |> Den 22.07.2024 23:55, Richard Hachel responded:> |>> But I keep explaining it to you. |>> |>> This is a property of space that can be called universal anisochrony. |>> |>> This does not translate into the idea that the “plan of present time” |>> so dear to physicists does not exist, it is a thought that seems |>> logical to them, but it is an abstract thought. |>> Let's assume that both clocks show UTC + 2h within a second. I leave Oslo Airport (Gardemoen Airport) when the watch on the airport shows 12.00.00 ± 1 s I arrive at Paris Airport (Charles De Gaulle Airport) when the watch on the airport shows 13.30.32 ± 1 s. The difference is T = 1h 30m 32 ± 2 s The distance in the ground frame between the airports is L = 1358.03 ± 0.1 km v = T/L = 250.01 ± 0.11 m/s = 900.0 ± 0.4 km/h Please explain why this is not a real speed in the ground frame. Richard, will you flee yet again? :-D -- Paul https://paulba.no/
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 21:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <COJf_76H1iEiE3dhywIu9seNMug@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655906 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 19:53, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : > Den 13.08.2024 14:46, skrev Richard Hachel: >> >> There are equations that are correct in your pdf, but also equations >> that are incorrect. > > I think you know that all are correct according to SR. Absolutely. That's what I said. Your equations are very beautiful and they fit perfectly with the SR. The problem is neither you nor your equations. The problem is the German school that has taken over French thought (Einstein, Minkowski) to teach a falsely seductive doctrine. The devil never gives credit, and always, always, always, his intervention is ultra-fast. It is a universal law. We had the same thing in theology with the coming of Jesus Christ. Saint Paul did not wait to come and disgust everything and create the Christian religion, an abstract thing of redemption by stupid, blind, and abstract faith, having nothing more to do with the original doctrine. So yes, your equations are very beautiful, and they fit very well with the RR, as the gospels fit very well with the thought of Saint Paul. But in there, half of the concepts are false or manipulated. R.H.
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 21:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <Q8eX_VR3VVK_vcHjHJ779PWy-2E@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655906 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 19:53, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : > You are right, I am not interested in why you claim SR is wrong, > but you keep carrying water to the donkey anyway. So I thank you for your patience and tolerance. I remind you that this is not the case for all the speakers who have epileptic seizures as soon as I explain something or ask for some small practical exercises (the Traveler of Langevin, the traveler of Ta Ceti). Not to mention the insults, threats, professional defamation, and denunciations. R.H.
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 22:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <AVa827R_LOez7mc5Ad3CT6GyhiA@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655906 |
Le 13/08/2024 à 19:53, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : > > So you have given up gesticulating about universal anisochrony > and why that makes it impossible to have synchronous clocks > in Oslo and Paris? > > Try to explain it again? > > |> Den 22.07.2024 21:37, skrev Paul.B.Andersen: > |>> > |>> You know of course that all clocks in the same time zone > |>> are synchronous. In France and Norway clocks are currently > |>> showing UTC + 2 hour, so my clock and your clock are actually > |>> synchronous. > |>> > |>> Please explain why our clocks are NOT synchronous. > |>> (To within few seconds| > | > > |> Den 22.07.2024 23:55, Richard Hachel responded:> > |>> But I keep explaining it to you. > |>> > |>> This is a property of space that can be called universal anisochrony. > |>> > |>> This does not translate into the idea that the “plan of present time” > |>> so dear to physicists does not exist, it is a thought that seems > |>> logical to them, but it is an abstract thought. > |>> > > Let's assume that both clocks show UTC + 2h within a second. > > I leave Oslo Airport (Gardemoen Airport) when the watch on > the airport shows 12.00.00 ± 1 s > I arrive at Paris Airport (Charles De Gaulle Airport) when > the watch on the airport shows 13.30.32 ± 1 s. > The difference is T = 1h 30m 32 ± 2 s > The distance in the ground frame between the airports is > L = 1358.03 ± 0.1 km > > v = T/L = 250.01 ± 0.11 m/s = 900.0 ± 0.4 km/h > > Please explain why this is not a real speed > in the ground frame. > > Richard, will you flee yet again? :-D No, no, I am not trying to escape. I have forty years of relativistic concepts behind me, and I have a perfect grasp of how things should be taught. There are several keys to understanding RR, and either none of these keys are understood, or they are half understood, and that is not satisfactory. The first key, which is absolutely necessary to open the theory, is the notion of universal anisochrony. This made a lot of people laugh 40 years ago, because people did not understand this term, nor what I meant by it. Today, it is a little less funny, and many ask me to explain it in a simple way, because the concept, although elementary, is not obvious to everyone. What is universal anisochrony? It is a property of space, just as universal gravitation is a property of bodies. This means that the notion of absolute universal present is an abstract thought. There is no present moment at this moment that is at the level of a planet that orbits Altair, for example, and that corresponds reciprocally to my present moment. In short, the notion of a flat present does not exist. It is a thought anchored in man (like the flat earth before), but which is only a human a priori. Strangely, this simple idea, which corresponds perfectly to an intelligent physics, is abandoned by men, while they understand very well a more difficult concept which is the relativity of the internal chronotropy of watches by change of inertial reference (gamma factor). We come back to Paris, and to Oslo. There is therefore a natural anisochrony between Paris and Oslo. There is no "flat present", "horizontal plane of present time" between Paris and Oslo. I repeat, it is useless, false and abstract. So there is a natural, irreversible gap between the two. If we synchronize the watches on Paris, an event that will occur in Oslo will not exist for Paris. An event that will occur in Paris will not exist in Oslo. This event is only found in the "future of the other". And so on for the entire universe. We will always have a time interval, an anisochrony, which will be related to the distance. "My present is not your present, and your present is not my present, there is no absolute universal simultaneity" So how do we make all this agree anyway? We will create a universal time, an abstract universal present, which does not exist, and which corresponds to a synchronization made by an observer placed in a fourth spatial dimension which does not exist, but which is very useful, because mathematically, if it is placed very far, perpendicular, and at an equal distance from all the points of the three-dimensional metric universe which is ours, it observes all the points in a constant perfect simultaneity. This point is abstract, does not exist, but allows us to use a universal time and a perfect present time plan. But this perfect present time does not exist. This does not prevent that in our universe, each point considered is, in general at a different distance from me, and that it is impossible for me to synchronize with it, without desynchronizing myself from it, and without desynchronizing myself from the others and so on. R.H.
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| From | hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 22:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <327c4ebc77dc16239ac38f00b508451b@www.novabbs.com> |
| In reply to | #655913 |
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:19 +0000, Richard Hachel wrote: > > .... > But this perfect present time does not exist. > > This does not prevent that in our universe, each point considered is, in > general at a different distance from me, and that it is impossible for > me to synchronize with it, without desynchronizing myself from it, and > without desynchronizing myself from the others and so on. > > R.H. Well, Richard, the GPS disproves your theory, because t' = t, as Wozniak is over-fond of saying. (Where , in this case, t' = time in Oslo and t is the time in Paris.
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| From | Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 22:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sqw3zTfcSZX8ZFqoADa2xq0VXC4@jntp> |
| In reply to | #655915 |
Le 14/08/2024 à 00:12, hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) a écrit : >> .... >> But this perfect present time does not exist. >> >> This does not prevent that in our universe, each point considered is, in >> general at a different distance from me, and that it is impossible for >> me to synchronize with it, without desynchronizing myself from it, and >> without desynchronizing myself from the others and so on. >> >> R.H. > > Well, Richard, the GPS disproves your theory, because t' = t, as Wozniak > is over-fond of saying. (Where , in this case, t' = time in Oslo and t > is > the time in Paris. I just explained to you the synchronization used by GPS. Abstract synchronization, but interesting to be able to use a universal present time plan (which does not exist in nature). It's a shame, you're not making any effort. It makes discussions very difficult. R.H.
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| From | hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 23:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <318e20b52c44bd49d3fa7d10b218937e@www.novabbs.com> |
| In reply to | #655917 |
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:42:02 +0000, Richard Hachel wrote: > > Le 14/08/2024 à 00:12, hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) a écrit : > > > > Richard Hachel wrote: > > > .... > > > But this perfect present time does not exist. > > > > > > This does not prevent that in our universe, each point considered > is, in > > > general at a different distance from me, and that it is impossible > for > > > me to synchronize with it, without desynchronizing myself from it, > and > > > without desynchronizing myself from the others and so on. > > > >>> R.H. > > > > Well, Richard, the GPS disproves your theory, because t' = t, as > Wozniak > > is over-fond of saying. (Where , in this case, t' = time in Oslo and t > > is the time in Paris. > > I just explained to you the synchronization used by GPS. Abstract > synchronization, but interesting to be able to use a universal present > time plan (which does not exist in nature). “There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.” – Douglas Adams > It's a shame, you're not making any effort. > It makes discussions very difficult. > > R.H. Disagreeing with you does NOT mean that I'm not making an effort. The fact is, I see neither reason for nor evidence of this so-called "universal anisochrony." It seems to have sprung from the observation that light travels at a finite speed, but I don't think that has anything to do with the matter. True, there is "universal anisochrony" for observers in SR in different frames, but it IS possible to synchronize clocks between such frames -- but only for one instant. But often, that's enough. It's like: “Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once” -- Naval Ops Manual
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-13 21:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <66BC3727.1966@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #655917 |
Richard Hachel wrote: > > Le 14/08/2024 à 00:12, hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) a écrit : > >> .... > >> But this perfect present time does not exist. > >> > >> This does not prevent that in our universe, each point considered is, in > >> general at a different distance from me, and that it is impossible for > >> me to synchronize with it, without desynchronizing myself from it, and > >> without desynchronizing myself from the others and so on. > >> > >> R.H. > > > > Well, Richard, the GPS disproves your theory, because t' = t, as Wozniak > > is over-fond of saying. (Where , in this case, t' = time in Oslo and t > > is > > the time in Paris. > > I just explained to you the synchronization used by GPS. Abstract > synchronization, but interesting to be able to use a universal present > time plan (which does not exist in nature). > It's a shame, you're not making any effort. > It makes discussions very difficult. > > R.H. "a universal present time plan (which does not exist in nature)."???? a universal present time plan either exist in anture or does not exist in nature?? The universe was 'made' with time. It is in the nature of the universe... -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-14 09:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <66BCDE0C.291@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #655923 |
and another thing Hachel (i have nothing against...French Science) but, I have looked, and looked, and looked... all i see out there is...rocks. Where do the laws of nature come from in French Science? I have looked, and looked, and looked... all i see out there is...rocks, there is no one or anything where laws of nature seems to be coming from...except.. your hallucinations. Rocks don't have laws. yous seeing things or reading into rocks yous might have laws, but rocks don't have laws. you see what you made me do, now i gotta go out and buy some french fries! -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
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| From | hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-14 17:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <fe74cc4e88c017f6a76d1dbf071035ff@www.novabbs.com> |
| In reply to | #655941 |
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 16:40:44 +0000, The Starmaker wrote: > > and another thing Hachel > > (i have nothing against...French Science) > > but, I have looked, and looked, and looked... > > all i see out there is...rocks. > > Where do the laws of nature come from in French Science? > > I have looked, and looked, and looked... > > all i see out there is...rocks, there is no one or anything > where laws of nature seems to be coming from...except.. > > your hallucinations. > > Rocks don't have laws. > > yous seeing things > > or reading into rocks > > yous might have laws, but > rocks don't have laws. > > you see what you made me do, now i gotta go > out and buy some french fries! I have looked and looked and looked, and all I can see is rocks ... in your head :-))
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