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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #579060 > unrolled thread

Philosophy and physics

Started byRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
First post2022-02-27 17:02 -0800
Last post2022-03-01 12:23 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 65 — 10 participants

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Contents

  Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-27 17:02 -0800
    Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-27 21:05 -0800
      Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-02-27 22:38 -0800
        Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-27 23:33 -0800
          Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 05:36 -0800
            Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 18:51 +0000
            Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-02-28 21:09 -0800
              Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 22:03 -0800
                Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-02-28 22:33 -0800
                  Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 22:45 -0800
                    Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 13:12 +0000
                  Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 23:01 -0800
                Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 12:23 +0000
                  Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 04:43 -0800
                    Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 13:12 +0000
                      Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 05:22 -0800
                        Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 05:29 -0800
                        Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 13:47 +0000
                          Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 06:09 -0800
                            Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 15:13 +0000
                              Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 09:24 -0800
                              Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 21:58 -0800
                                Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-02 20:16 -0800
                                  Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 21:12 -0800
                                    Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-02 23:47 -0800
                                      Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-03 20:20 -0800
                                        Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 20:38 -0800
                                          Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-03 22:11 -0800
                                            Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-04 17:15 -0800
                                              Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-05 15:08 -0800
                                                Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-05 15:55 -0800
                                                  Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-05 23:22 -0800
                                                    Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 12:32 +0000
                                                      Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-06 13:18 -0800
                                                    Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 13:48 -0800
                                                      Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 13:56 -0800
                                                      Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-08 01:25 -0800
                                                        Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-08 10:58 -0800
                                                          Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 15:19 -0800
                                                            Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-08 23:40 +0000
                                                            Re: Philosophy and physics The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-08 16:14 -0800
                                                              Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-09 06:09 -0800
                                            Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 04:41 -0800
                                          Re: Philosophy and physics Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-05 09:05 -0500
                                            Re: Philosophy and physics Darin Herr <dh@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-05 18:22 +0000
                                            Re: Philosophy and physics Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-03-05 10:47 -0800
                                              Re: Philosophy and physics Darin Herr <dh@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-05 19:13 +0000
                                            Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 11:31 -0800
                                              Re: Philosophy and physics Darin Herr <dh@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-05 20:03 +0000
                                              Re: Philosophy and physics Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-06 14:10 -0500
                                                Re: Philosophy and physics Ober Corn <nm@cvslm.ca> - 2022-03-06 21:12 +0000
                                                Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 14:09 -0800
          Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 15:54 +0000
            Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 23:08 -0800
              Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 23:10 -0800
                Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 15:01 +0000
                  Re: Philosophy and physics "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 07:19 -0800
              Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 15:01 +0000
                Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 03:28 -0800
                  Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 14:06 +0000
      Re: Philosophy and physics "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-02-28 22:24 +0100
    Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-27 21:15 -0800
    Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 15:54 +0000
    Re: Philosophy and physics Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 20:42 -0800
      Re: Philosophy and physics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 12:23 +0000

Page 1 of 4  [1] 2 3 4  Next page →


#579060 — Philosophy and physics

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-27 17:02 -0800
SubjectPhilosophy and physics
Message-ID<39e08093-303d-4b1a-b6a6-7ffee3b7a58cn@googlegroups.com>
This came from one member here that makes 300+ posts/month. when he
was a newbie at this forum. Explains a lot.

He followed with an increasing amount of "interventions", with SR at first and
soon with GR and the entire building of physics.

In less than one year, he self-awarded an honorary PhD on philosophy of
theoretical physics. Now, he has three or four more PhD, also self-awarded.


"That may be the the attraction of philosophy, as far as I can see. You
can argue all day about it and never be proven wrong. In fact, you can
claim at the end of the day that you won every argument because nobody
could prove you wrong. I can see why that might be fun for some people."


Pure einstenian "natural philosophy" on action: bla, bla, bla, bla....


[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#579071

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-27 21:05 -0800
Message-ID<cff9f461-76eb-4577-b119-1eb6f6ab5d0cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579060
Some gems found by digging in old posts from this forums. What a difference 9 years make on some people's mind.
I think I'll c&p some, which I find very telling about posters:

Roberts, 2013:

"Nope. "Absolute time" was abandoned because it simply does not work in the world
we inhabit. Clocks at rest in different inertial frames do not remain in sync,
as "absolute time" would require. Also, clocks at rest at different altitudes on
earth do not remain in sync, as "absolute time" would require."

.................

"Nope. The mathematics/geometry underlying SR has been proven to be as
self-consistent as is Euclidean geometry, and also as is real analysis."
 
.................

Bodkin, 2013:

"A physicist is someone who earns their degree from a university. With a major in physics, right?
From the people that I've talked with, being a physicist usually involves getting a degree higher than 
baccalaureate. Usually doctoral, sometimes masters. I don't know anyone who has successfully 
pursued a career in physics with just a bachelor's in physics. Do you?"
..............

"Putting it another way, I don't really put much stock in any philosophical conclusions that are derived from playing 
around with the sloppiness and ambiguity of language. That just seems more like fooling around to me."
..............

"A little humility is good for the soul. I personally don't need to be flattered that I'm wise or insightful in a subject area 
I know very little about. Some things are interesting, even if what I have to say about it is not very interesting at all."
..............

I suppose that's traced to my propensity to ask physicists what "physical" means, rather than making something up that 
pleases me or what I think is right. 
I certainly don't expect people to rely on what I say on the matter, and in fact I think I would be less reliable if I put
forward my own meaning to the word that the experts in the subject did not share. 
If I cared about being deemed "reliable", I would not rely on force of argument or how clear my ideas seemed to be. 
I would rely on experts agreeing with me. 
..............

> Bodkin : Can you please supply what that equation is ?

This is a gray area for me, sorry. I think it depends on what kind of thing it is. If it's got mass, then its momentum is
p = mvc/sqrt(c^2-v^2).
But there are massless things that have momentum too, like photons and gluons, and that formula above just doesn't work. 
For those things, I've see things like  p = hf/c, where f is a frequency of some kind, though I don't know what the frequency 
of a photon is, exactly. It's not a wiggle rate back and forth, I know that. 

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#579074

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-02-27 22:38 -0800
Message-ID<621C6DD6.4FA9@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#579071
Richard Hertz wrote:
> 
> Some gems found by digging in old posts from this forums. What a difference 9 years make on some people's mind.
> I think I'll c&p some, which I find very telling about posters:

> .................
> 
> Bodkin, 2013:
> 
> "A physicist is someone who earns their degree from a university. With a major in physics, right?
> From the people that I've talked with, being a physicist usually involves getting a degree higher than
> baccalaureate. Usually doctoral, sometimes masters. I don't know anyone who has successfully
> pursued a career in physics with just a bachelor's in physics. Do you?"
> ..............



He's always talking about himself..

I mean, it's about Him, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=of8f7Kj1yiE












-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579076

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-27 23:33 -0800
Message-ID<c0976b2c-4376-498f-bd66-d94e08b5f0ffn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579074
On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 3:37:29 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
> Richard Hertz wrote: 
> > 
> > Some gems found by digging in old posts from this forums. What a difference 9 years make on some people's mind. 
> > I think I'll c&p some, which I find very telling about posters:
> > ................. 
> > 
> > Bodkin, 2013: 
> > 
> > "A physicist is someone who earns their degree from a university. With a major in physics, right? 
> > From the people that I've talked with, being a physicist usually involves getting a degree higher than 
> > baccalaureate. Usually doctoral, sometimes masters. I don't know anyone who has successfully 
> > pursued a career in physics with just a bachelor's in physics. Do you?" 
> > ..............
> He's always talking about himself.. 
> 
> I mean, it's about Him, right? 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=of8f7Kj1yiE 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
> and challenge 
> the unchallengeable.

Another gem, now from 2017:

What modern physics is really about, from a woodworker's view
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics.relativity/c/NNQLGf7sb4I/m/thSy5L2wAAAJ

"I'm aware that there are a number of people on this group who are not
even comfortable with the concepts of 19th century physics, let alone
20th century physics, and these people prefer to just speculate and
argue about what "feels right" to them, justified or not."

"I'm aware that there are a number of people on this group who think 19th
century physics (the "classical" physics of Newton and Kelvin and
Maxwell) is still the best model, and that physics went astray with
relativity and quantum mechanics and basically anything that says
classical physics is off a bit."

"But what's interesting to me is that, with some of the reading that I've
done over the last decade, even the "modern physics" of the 20th century
has been left behind for newer and much different ideas."

*************************************
 
"Well, I would quibble about it being "just math". Fields are very real.
The properties of empty space are very real. And symmetry is very real.
All of these are PHYSICAL concepts. Just different ones. Not the ones of 
our everyday worldview or our common sense. 

Our common sense minds are just focused on the wrong things." 

*************************************

HE KNOWS EVERYTHING OF ANYTHING.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579091

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-28 05:36 -0800
Message-ID<ff5385da-4dbf-4ddb-a6f1-7928188a9729n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579076
I've read 600 books in the last 10 years.
I read a book per week.
I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400 books not written yet.

Bodkin, 2015

So, I pretend to have about 30, and I plan to live up to 80, given or taken a couple of years.

*******

But but will books exist by 2065?

Maybe you will take a green pill and the entire content will be within you. Miscalculation.

Maybe it will be possible to read 1 book per day, sooon. He will make the mark of 20,000 or above that.

Mythomaniac.

Don't ever believe a word written or spoken by a master deceiver.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579127

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-28 18:51 +0000
Message-ID<svj5je$kr9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579091
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've read 600 books in the last 10 years.
> I read a book per week.
> I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400
> books not written yet.
> 
> Bodkin, 2015
> 
> So, I pretend to have about 30, and I plan to live up to 80, given or
> taken a couple of years.
> 
> *******
> 
> But but will books exist by 2065?
> 
> Maybe you will take a green pill and the entire content will be within you. Miscalculation.
> 
> Maybe it will be possible to read 1 book per day, sooon. He will make the
> mark of 20,000 or above that.
> 
> Mythomaniac.
> 
> Don't ever believe a word written or spoken by a master deceiver.
> 
> 
> 

Do you think it is impossible for a human being to read a book a week?
Really??

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#579171

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-02-28 21:09 -0800
Message-ID<621DAA7F.7712@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#579091
Richard Hertz wrote:
> 
> I've read 600 books in the last 10 years.
> I read a book per week.
> I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400 books not written yet.
> 
> Bodkin, 2015

The math, the numbers don't seem to fit...

600 books comes out to 60 books a year.

But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year...

So, when did he read the missing 8 books?

Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them.


What library lets you borrow a book a week?

And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks?



i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature.




-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579173

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-28 22:03 -0800
Message-ID<6e04f855-57a8-4401-a76f-4bf26938481bn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579171
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 2:09:19 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
> Richard Hertz wrote: 
> > 
> > I've read 600 books in the last 10 years. 
> > I read a book per week. 
> > I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400 books not written yet. 
> > 
> > Bodkin, 2015
> The math, the numbers don't seem to fit... 
> 
> 600 books comes out to 60 books a year. 
> 
> But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year... 
> 
> So, when did he read the missing 8 books? 
> 
> Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them. 
> 
> 
> What library lets you borrow a book a week? 
> 
> And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks? 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature.
> -- 
> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
> and challenge 
> the unchallengeable.

What if you:

- Own a bookstore, or
- work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or
- work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ......

and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter Time), south of 36° latitude?.

Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker, AKA Odds B....., etc.)

Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak IP addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579175

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-02-28 22:33 -0800
Message-ID<621DBE28.FBD@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#579173
Richard Hertz wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 2:09:19 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Richard Hertz wrote:
> > >
> > > I've read 600 books in the last 10 years.
> > > I read a book per week.
> > > I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400 books not written yet.
> > >
> > > Bodkin, 2015
> > The math, the numbers don't seem to fit...
> >
> > 600 books comes out to 60 books a year.
> >
> > But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year...
> >
> > So, when did he read the missing 8 books?
> >
> > Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them.
> >
> >
> > What library lets you borrow a book a week?
> >
> > And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks?
> >
> >
> >
> > i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature.
> > --
> > The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
> > to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
> > and challenge
> > the unchallengeable.
> 
> What if you:
> 
> - Own a bookstore, or
> - work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or
> - work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ......
> 
> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter Time), south of 36° latitude?.
> 
> Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker, AKA Odds B....., etc.)
> 
> Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak IP addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.


all not plausable...he doesn't 'sound' like he reads a book a week. A person who reads a book a week
has learned new things every week...

there is nothing new coming out of him every week.

he keeps pushing old textbbooks...

Has he ever...in the last 52 weeks mention a new textbook or book?

Or, come up with a 'new' idea?

come on, the dots don't connect.

not plausable



he's fuckin lying.


-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579176

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-28 22:45 -0800
Message-ID<e37a3fd5-ed39-422e-b149-9feea1b142fan@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579175
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:33:12 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
> Richard Hertz wrote: 
> > 
> > On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 2:09:19 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > Richard Hertz wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > I've read 600 books in the last 10 years. 
> > > > I read a book per week. 
> > > > I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400 books not written yet. 
> > > > 
> > > > Bodkin, 2015 
> > > The math, the numbers don't seem to fit... 
> > > 
> > > 600 books comes out to 60 books a year. 
> > > 
> > > But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year... 
> > > 
> > > So, when did he read the missing 8 books? 
> > > 
> > > Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > What library lets you borrow a book a week? 
> > > 
> > > And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature. 
> > > -- 
> > > The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> > > to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
> > > and challenge 
> > > the unchallengeable. 
> > 
> > What if you: 
> > 
> > - Own a bookstore, or 
> > - work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or 
> > - work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ...... 
> > 
> > and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
> > 
> > Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker, AKA Odds B....., etc.) 
> > 
> > Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak IP addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.
> all not plausable...he doesn't 'sound' like he reads a book a week. A person who reads a book a week 
> has learned new things every week... 
> 
> there is nothing new coming out of him every week. 
> 
> he keeps pushing old textbbooks... 
> 
> Has he ever...in the last 52 weeks mention a new textbook or book? 
> 
> Or, come up with a 'new' idea? 
> 
> come on, the dots don't connect. 
> 
> not plausable 
> 
> 
> 
> he's fuckin lying.
> -- 
> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge 
> the unchallengeable.


Bodkin 2015, discussing about IT

***********************
By the way, I have a Mac desktop and iOS tablet, a chromebook and an 
Android phablet, a Windows laptop, and a borrowed Linux convertible. I 
feel pretty comfortable on all of them.

***********************
Note that as a (partial) Mac user, I have full access to the Mach 
kernel, which is in turn FreeBSD plus a lot of NeXTStep, which in turn 
has a lot of NetBSD in it. Of course, as a (partial) Windows user, I can 
also run DOS line commands if I want. Sometimes that is useful, 
especially if I want to add some extra security configurations or do 
something dramatic like install Chinese-wall partitions. 

***********************
Only with older formats. Since about 2009, MS has used XML output 
formats, which are .... not complicated. 

***********************
Jobs said, the only way he could curate the best possible experience was 
to have a walled garden. This does limit options. 

IBM/Microsoft built for openness (which for IBM was a rather amazing 
step), but that did lead to a poorer overall user experience. You could 
get any software you wanted, but one piece of software didn't look 
anything like the next piece of software so you ended up having to 
suffer a steep learning curve for any new thing you acquired. Not to 
mention silly things like specialized drivers, conflicting drivers, 
software that wasn't compatible with current OS releases, etc. 

The modern analog for the IBM openness choice is Android. Android is in 
some respects a whole lot better than iOS. It is also a freakin' 
disaster. Fragmentation is rampant, devices are 99% non-ungradeable, UI 
layers on top of UI layers, completely NOT a curated experience. The 
only thing that even comes close to a curated experience is when Google 
launches a "pristine" Nexus device with the latest version of Android. 
These are launched as demos to other providers about what the experience 
COULD be like if they didn't fuck with it. So guess which devices 
support pure Lollipop today? Nexus. 


***********************

Knowing, pretending, copy&modify&paste too much? 

The IKEA man is a visionary. Android a wrong choice?,  Chinese-wall partitions?.  

LOL

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579192

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 13:12 +0000
Message-ID<svl639$dlc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579176
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:33:12 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Richard Hertz wrote: 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 2:09:19 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote: 
>>>> Richard Hertz wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've read 600 books in the last 10 years. 
>>>>> I read a book per week. 
>>>>> I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400
>>>>> books not written yet. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bodkin, 2015 
>>>> The math, the numbers don't seem to fit... 
>>>> 
>>>> 600 books comes out to 60 books a year. 
>>>> 
>>>> But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year... 
>>>> 
>>>> So, when did he read the missing 8 books? 
>>>> 
>>>> Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What library lets you borrow a book a week? 
>>>> 
>>>> And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature. 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
>>>> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
>>>> and challenge 
>>>> the unchallengeable. 
>>> 
>>> What if you: 
>>> 
>>> - Own a bookstore, or 
>>> - work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or 
>>> - work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ...... 
>>> 
>>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6
>>> Winter Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
>>> 
>>> Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker,
>>> AKA Odds B....., etc.) 
>>> 
>>> Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak
>>> IP addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.
>> all not plausable...he doesn't 'sound' like he reads a book a week. A
>> person who reads a book a week 
>> has learned new things every week... 
>> 
>> there is nothing new coming out of him every week. 
>> 
>> he keeps pushing old textbbooks... 
>> 
>> Has he ever...in the last 52 weeks mention a new textbook or book? 
>> 
>> Or, come up with a 'new' idea? 
>> 
>> come on, the dots don't connect. 
>> 
>> not plausable 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> he's fuckin lying.
>> -- 
>> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
>> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge 
>> the unchallengeable.
> 
> 
> Bodkin 2015, discussing about IT
> 
> ***********************
> By the way, I have a Mac desktop and iOS tablet, a chromebook and an 
> Android phablet, a Windows laptop, and a borrowed Linux convertible. I 
> feel pretty comfortable on all of them.
> 

Yes the above was true. I no longer have the Android phablet. The device I
run Linux on is new. 

> ***********************
> Note that as a (partial) Mac user, I have full access to the Mach 
> kernel, which is in turn FreeBSD plus a lot of NeXTStep, which in turn 
> has a lot of NetBSD in it. Of course, as a (partial) Windows user, I can 
> also run DOS line commands if I want. Sometimes that is useful, 
> especially if I want to add some extra security configurations or do 
> something dramatic like install Chinese-wall partitions. 
> 

Yes, this is still true. 

> ***********************
> Only with older formats. Since about 2009, MS has used XML output 
> formats, which are .... not complicated. 
> 
> ***********************
> Jobs said, the only way he could curate the best possible experience was 
> to have a walled garden. This does limit options. 
> 
> IBM/Microsoft built for openness (which for IBM was a rather amazing 
> step), but that did lead to a poorer overall user experience. You could 
> get any software you wanted, but one piece of software didn't look 
> anything like the next piece of software so you ended up having to 
> suffer a steep learning curve for any new thing you acquired. Not to 
> mention silly things like specialized drivers, conflicting drivers, 
> software that wasn't compatible with current OS releases, etc. 
> 
> The modern analog for the IBM openness choice is Android. Android is in 
> some respects a whole lot better than iOS. It is also a freakin' 
> disaster. Fragmentation is rampant, devices are 99% non-ungradeable, UI 
> layers on top of UI layers, completely NOT a curated experience. The 
> only thing that even comes close to a curated experience is when Google 
> launches a "pristine" Nexus device with the latest version of Android. 
> These are launched as demos to other providers about what the experience 
> COULD be like if they didn't fuck with it. So guess which devices 
> support pure Lollipop today? Nexus. 

Yes, this is of course now old news and common knowledge. What was your
point again?

> 
> 
> ***********************
> 
> Knowing, pretending, copy&modify&paste too much? 
> 
> The IKEA man is a visionary. Android a wrong choice?,  Chinese-wall partitions?.  
> 
> LOL
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579177

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-02-28 23:01 -0800
Message-ID<cf678ac8-e529-4f63-b923-84ee3cffcb33n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579175
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 3:33:12 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
> Richard Hertz wrote: 

<snip>

> > > What library lets you borrow a book a week? 
> > > 
> > > And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks? 

> > What if you: 
> > 
> > - Own a bookstore, or 
> > - work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or 
> > - work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ...... 
> > 
> > and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
> > 
> > Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker, AKA Odds B....., etc.) 
> > 
> > Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak IP addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.
> all not plausable...he doesn't 'sound' like he reads a book a week. A person who reads a book a week 
> has learned new things every week... 
> 
> there is nothing new coming out of him every week. 
> 
> he keeps pushing old textbbooks... 
> 
> Has he ever...in the last 52 weeks mention a new textbook or book? 
> 
> Or, come up with a 'new' idea? 
> 
> come on, the dots don't connect. 
> 
> not plausable 
> 

> he's fuckin lying.

You didn't pay attention to my post. Search a US map with time zones and latitudes, and tell me which are the seven (7)
states that qualify within those parameters.

Now think, going from East to West, which one would you choose to retire?

A LOT of people would jump and say: THIS ONE!


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579189

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 12:23 +0000
Message-ID<svl38j$11iu$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579173
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 2:09:19 AM UTC-3, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Richard Hertz wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I've read 600 books in the last 10 years. 
>>> I read a book per week. 
>>> I spent 20% of my adult life so far, so I expect to read another 2400
>>> books not written yet. 
>>> 
>>> Bodkin, 2015
>> The math, the numbers don't seem to fit... 
>> 
>> 600 books comes out to 60 books a year. 
>> 
>> But, a book a week comes out to 52 books a year... 
>> 
>> So, when did he read the missing 8 books? 
>> 
>> Especially since he doesn't buy books, he borrows them. 
>> 
>> 
>> What library lets you borrow a book a week? 
>> 
>> And what librarian would put up with him every 3 weeks? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> i don't get it? the numbers don't agree with Nature.
>> -- 
>> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
>> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
>> and challenge 
>> the unchallengeable.
> 
> What if you:
> 
> - Own a bookstore, or
> - work as an Assistant Professor or HS Teacher, or
> - work as an independent SW developer, who hacks and download books for free, or ......
> 
> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter
> Time), south of 36° latitude?.

What time is it now?

> 
> Or, anything else that suits for the IKEA man (AKA Bodkin, AKA Boinker,
> AKA Odds B....., etc.)
> 
> Did you know that free VPN providers have a problem because they leak IP
> addresses? It doesn't happen if you pay a VPN.
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579191

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 04:43 -0800
Message-ID<c9fd116d-192f-44aa-bdc6-64a2cf16dd51n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579189
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 

<snip>

> > and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
> > Time), south of 36° latitude?.

> What time is it now?


Good morning!

For you:  Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM  (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM  (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579194

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 13:12 +0000
Message-ID<svl63a$dlc$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579191
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
>>> Time), south of 36° latitude?.
> 
>> What time is it now?
> 
> 
> Good morning!
> 
> For you:  Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM  (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
> (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
> 
> 

And what time of day, local time, do you post?

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579195

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 05:22 -0800
Message-ID<dfbffb02-2fb9-42b3-99e8-9c5df657e2ebn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579194
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> >> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > <snip> 
> > 
> >>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
> >>> Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
> > 
> >> What time is it now? 
> > 
> > 
> > Good morning! 
> > 
> > For you: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
> > (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
> > 
> >
> And what time of day, local time, do you post?
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Bodkin, you just had to google Argentina UTC time!

I'm at UTC-3, summer time. Same time is for Paparios, at Chile.

So, you have to add 3 hours to your local time until Sunday, March 13. Then, you'll have to add only 2 hours until Sunday, November 6.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579196

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 05:29 -0800
Message-ID<68ce723a-b404-4fb3-bd9d-d768b14a21b5n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579195
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:22:34 AM UTC-3, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > >> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > <snip> 
> > > 
> > >>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
> > >>> Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
> > > 
> > >> What time is it now? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good morning! 
> > > 
> > > For you: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
> > > (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
> > > 
> > > 
> > And what time of day, local time, do you post? 
> > -- 
> > Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> Bodkin, you just had to google Argentina UTC time! 
> 
> I'm at UTC-3, summer time. Same time is for Paparios, at Chile. 
> 
> So, you have to add 3 hours to your local time until Sunday, March 13. Then, you'll have to add only 2 hours until Sunday, November 6.


You overdid with your comment about Chinese-wall partitions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579197

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 13:47 +0000
Message-ID<svl863$1ful$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579195
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
>>>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> <snip> 
>>> 
>>>>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
>>>>> Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
>>> 
>>>> What time is it now? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Good morning! 
>>> 
>>> For you: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
>>> (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
>>> 
>>> 
>> And what time of day, local time, do you post?
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> Bodkin, you just had to google Argentina UTC time!
> 
> I'm at UTC-3, summer time. Same time is for Paparios, at Chile.

That’s not what I asked. When are your posting hours?
If it helps to put this in context, I do use a VPN. 
That whole business about the 36th parallel was pretty funny. 

> 
> So, you have to add 3 hours to your local time until Sunday, March 13.
> Then, you'll have to add only 2 hours until Sunday, November 6.
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579198

FromRichard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 06:09 -0800
Message-ID<4d17457e-63a4-4712-8225-902314b5f89en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#579197
On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> >> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> >>>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> <snip> 
> >>> 
> >>>>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
> >>>>> Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
> >>> 
> >>>> What time is it now? 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Good morning! 
> >>> 
> >>> For you: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
> >>> (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> And what time of day, local time, do you post? 
> >> -- 
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables 
> > 
> > Bodkin, you just had to google Argentina UTC time! 
> > 
> > I'm at UTC-3, summer time. Same time is for Paparios, at Chile.
> That’s not what I asked. When are your posting hours? 
> If it helps to put this in context, I do use a VPN. 
> That whole business about the 36th parallel was pretty funny.
> > 
> > So, you have to add 3 hours to your local time until Sunday, March 13. 
> > Then, you'll have to add only 2 hours until Sunday, November 6. 
> > 
> >
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

I know that you are using a VPN. The same free VPN that Moroney uses, and probably he taught to you about it since Day 1.

Your relaying node is 46.165.242.75, in Germany. But it does have a catch.

Anyways, I just used critical analysis. Dont worry, your identity is almost safe.

But I advise you to take a visit to Aioe.org NNTP Server, and check: 

https://news.aioe.org/

Check TOOLS and also STATISTICS. Just saying. It's a free server and sell contents and user's data. In this way they profit and survive.

And regarding your question, that you repeated: I don't understand what you mean. I post here to the next available NNTP server in
an straight connection. I don't even know where it is. But Argentina, as well Chile, is an small country and almost every gateway to
abroad, at IP level, is located at Santiago and Buenos Aires. It's a classic configuration for star topologies.

US uses mesh topologies, which makes more difficult to understand traffic path, but IPv4 is based on OSPF, so it says all.

Anyways, I'm just trolling you. I was reading historic posts and wanted to see how deep is the database. It goes up to 1993, and I
laugh seen Moroney and Andersen spending half of their lives here. Paul goes back to 1998, minimum, when he was about 46-48.

Incredible readings on the golden period, until Dono appeared by 2006 (LOL).

I sugest you to try to search discussions like the speed of gravity or speed of electric fields in a pair production.

I have to leave now, for the rest of the day.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#579199

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-01 15:13 +0000
Message-ID<svld6b$2d6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#579198
Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
>>>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-3, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
>>>>>> Richard Hertz <hert...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <snip> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and do any of this from 8 AM to 5 PM, exactly (Central Time, UTC-6 Winter 
>>>>>>> Time), south of 36° latitude?. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> What time is it now? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good morning! 
>>>>> 
>>>>> For you: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:23:47AM (UTC-6 for you). 07:23:47AM 
>>>>> (UTC-5, discounting injection time). 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> And what time of day, local time, do you post? 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables 
>>> 
>>> Bodkin, you just had to google Argentina UTC time! 
>>> 
>>> I'm at UTC-3, summer time. Same time is for Paparios, at Chile.
>> That’s not what I asked. When are your posting hours? 
>> If it helps to put this in context, I do use a VPN. 
>> That whole business about the 36th parallel was pretty funny.
>>> 
>>> So, you have to add 3 hours to your local time until Sunday, March 13. 
>>> Then, you'll have to add only 2 hours until Sunday, November 6. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> I know that you are using a VPN. The same free VPN that Moroney uses, and
> probably he taught to you about it since Day 1.

No, you’re not following. I use aoie AND a home VPN. 

Whenever I connect to aoie, which is only for this purpose, I use a remote
routing IP. 
For other connections, say for banking, I use a different routing IP. 

> 
> Your relaying node is 46.165.242.75, in Germany. But it does have a catch.
> 
> Anyways, I just used critical analysis. Dont worry, your identity is almost safe.
> 
> But I advise you to take a visit to Aioe.org NNTP Server, and check: 
> 
> https://news.aioe.org/
> 
> Check TOOLS and also STATISTICS. Just saying. It's a free server and sell
> contents and user's data. In this way they profit and survive.
> 
> And regarding your question, that you repeated: I don't understand what
> you mean. I post here to the next available NNTP server in
> an straight connection. I don't even know where it is. But Argentina, as
> well Chile, is an small country and almost every gateway to
> abroad, at IP level, is located at Santiago and Buenos Aires. It's a
> classic configuration for star topologies.
> 
> US uses mesh topologies, which makes more difficult to understand traffic
> path, but IPv4 is based on OSPF, so it says all.
> 
> Anyways, I'm just trolling you. I was reading historic posts and wanted
> to see how deep is the database. It goes up to 1993, and I
> laugh seen Moroney and Andersen spending half of their lives here. Paul
> goes back to 1998, minimum, when he was about 46-48.
> 
> Incredible readings on the golden period, until Dono appeared by 2006 (LOL).
> 
> I sugest you to try to search discussions like the speed of gravity or
> speed of electric fields in a pair production.
> 
> I have to leave now, for the rest of the day.
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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