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Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1
Date	2025-06-02 17:50 +0200
Message-ID	<ma5ve5Fs71pU4@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
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Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 09:45 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
> On 6/1/2025 9:12 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 09:09 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
>> ...
>>>>
>>>> The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different 
>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally 
>>>> irrelevant for nature.
>>>
>>> So are "quantities", unfortunately.
>>
>> Actually I make the distinction between measurement and quantity.
> 
> So do I, both are human concepts, however.
> 
>> So: we have, say, a stick of e.g. wood. This has a certain form, which 
>> we measure in -say- meters.
>>
>> Now the real thing 'stick' has an attribute, which we call 
>> 'length' (or 'form' or whatever you like).
>>
>> But this stick has this attribute without human intervention and 
>> whether we measure it or not.
> 
> Well, wrong. It's us who assigned this attribute
> to this stick.
> 

sure, since sticks don't measure themselves.

But I wanted to express, that the attributes belong to the object, which 
has that particular feature, and not to the measuring device.

The object 'stick', for instance, takes therefore it's length with it, 
once it moves away.

So: the attribute is 'glued' to the object, while the observer is 
'glued' to the measuring device.

These are two different realms and only the measuring device belongs to 
our realm.

(The attribute of an object belongs to that object.)
>>
>> The measure 'meters' however and the measuring device are human 
>> artifacts and belong into our own realm and would not exist without us.
>>
>> Therefore the measurement is an artifact, while the quantity is a real 
>> attribute of something we measure.
>>
>> The 'cut', however, between the stick of the example above and the 
>> tree it still belongs to, is an artifact again.
>>
>>>
>>>> We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.
>>>>
>>>> But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things 
>>>> we measure belong to nature.
>>>
>>> Nope. "length", "time", "energy", anything -
>>> are human developed abstracts.
>>>
>>
>> If you say essentially the same, you should not write 'nope'.
> 
> But I write the opposite. The things we measure -
> "length", "time", "energy", anything - are human
> developed abstracts.

You are correct, but I see no difference to what I have written.


TH

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[ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-21 13:47 +0200
  Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-24 13:13 +0200
    Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-24 15:16 +0200
  Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 07:48 -0700
    Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-24 17:21 +0200
      Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Otniel Abuhov <vb@ohe.ru> - 2025-05-24 17:34 +0000
      Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 10:53 -0700
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-25 06:31 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-25 13:46 +0200
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-26 08:18 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 07:26 -0700
      Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-05-25 13:08 +0200
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-25 16:22 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Delman Vamvakidis <kvvvk@keaim.gr> - 2025-05-25 14:34 +0000
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-25 16:52 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Arden Vassilopulos <sadio@vsodo.gr> - 2025-05-25 14:57 +0000
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Walton Molnár <ombo@otnaml.hu> - 2025-05-25 14:27 +0000
  Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-25 21:46 +0200
    Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Bladimir Rudawski <ikdis@rr.pl> - 2025-05-25 21:08 +0000
    Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 17:41 -0700
      Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-26 05:47 +0200
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 21:19 -0700
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-26 06:42 +0200
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-26 16:34 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 09:44 -0700
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-05-28 00:35 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-01 14:41 +0200
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-06-01 13:33 +0000
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Carlis Bakurov <kr@csv.ru> - 2025-06-01 14:36 +0000
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 23:27 -0700
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-02 15:36 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-06-04 21:38 -0700
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-06-05 08:04 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-05 11:04 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-05 13:46 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-03 08:38 +0200
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-11 13:42 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-11 13:51 +0200
        Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-05-26 20:11 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-26 20:38 +0200
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-05-26 19:17 +0000
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-26 22:30 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-05-26 20:42 +0000
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-26 23:49 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-05-26 22:12 +0000
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-05-26 23:28 +0000
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 squalk <sq@net.inv> - 2025-05-27 20:40 +0100
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 13:23 -0700
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-27 07:42 +0200
          Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-05-29 23:47 +0000
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-05-30 14:19 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-30 14:33 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Wilder Molostov <mteoo@lmilo.ru> - 2025-05-30 12:51 +0000
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-05-30 17:12 +0000
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-05-30 23:37 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Ezekiel Beklemishev <mmeb@lims.ru> - 2025-05-30 22:39 +0000
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-05-31 08:56 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-05-31 09:09 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-01 09:12 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-06-01 09:45 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-06-02 17:50 +0200
            Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-01 12:35 +0200
              Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-06-01 14:47 +0200
                Re: [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1 Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-06-01 15:43 +0200

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