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Re: Muon paradox

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Muon paradox
Date 2025-04-07 09:02 +0200
Message-ID <m5hbipFsc82U2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <0831f6786b5abf17d5a9bf028b6b4c70@www.novabbs.com> <vsru5u$2vpp1$1@dont-email.me> <410d34c20d252e28ea5036925fb22863@www.novabbs.com> <vstug7$u0ts$1@dont-email.me> <T-_j0hJr9keae65lrpwb6VCUsbE@jntp>

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Am Sonntag000006, 06.04.2025 um 15:51 schrieb Richard Hachel:
> Le 06/04/2025 à 15:10, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>> Conclusion:
>>>> In this scenario, there is but one single muon with one single life.
>>>> The muon lives from its creation to its decay.
>>>> This single life is measured to last 1 μs in the muon frame K,
>>>> and is measured to last 47.3 μs in the Earth-frame K'.
>>>>
>>>> Time dilation is the phenomenon that the measured time
>>>> between two events on an object's world-line depend
>>>> on the frame of reference in which it is measured.
>>>>
>>>> So this is "time dilation" by definition.
>>>>
>>>> And as you know, the phenomenon "time dilation"
>>>> is thoroughly proven to exist in the real world.
>>>>
>>>> It simply is how Mother Nature works.
>>>>
> 
> The hardest thing for the novice to understand is that this phenomenon 
> is reciprocal.
> 
> For the muon, a phenomenon that occurs in the laboratory for 1 µs would 
> last for him...
> 
> This confuses the novice.
> 
> He doesn't understand how this can work.

This works, if we would give up the very idea of particles altogether, 
but regard a muon as a certain moving state.

It's easier the other way round and start with a photon.

A photon is supposed to be a 'thing', while it actually belongs to wave 
as certain 'pattern'.

What would happen to a photon, if we could suddenly stop it?

Well, we know from experience, that isolated metal plates become 
charged, if we shine light upon them.

So, a photon in full stop is (after being stopped) an electron.

Or the other way round: there are no particles as real lasting entities, 
but only certain waves, which behave under certain circumstances like a 
particle.

Now an exotic wave shows up at a laboratory on the surface of planet 
Earth and hits a metal plate (or whatever else) and then turns into 
something, that decays in a microsecond.

The atmosphere  is less hard, hence make that wave decay in ~90 
microseconds.


> 
> But we can't blame them; the bigwigs are just as lost when Doctor Hachel 
> starts talking about modern relativity theory. They can't understand 
> that when Stella makes her U-turn, over there, at 12 ly, and returns to 
> Earth at 0.8c (the Langevin traveler), she is stationary in her frame of 
> reference but sees the Earth coming back towards her, with an apparent 
> speed of 4c, for 9 years (so far, so good). And THEREFORE, she sees the 
> Earth coming back towards her over a distance of 36 light-years (inverse 
> distance contraction).
> 
> This drives them all crazy.

Well, I don't really like SRT.

I think, that SRT is actually a very convoluted way to calculate the 
Doppler effect.


TH

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Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-03-31 20:40 +0000
  Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-03-31 21:09 +0000
  Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-03-31 21:28 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-03-31 21:54 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-01 01:02 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 03:08 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 04:01 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-01 07:03 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 17:49 +0000
              Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-01 11:01 -0700
              Re: Muon paradox "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-08 14:23 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2025-04-01 12:35 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-01 10:48 +0000
            Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-01 13:12 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 17:38 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-01 13:11 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 15:24 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 15:31 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 15:38 +0000
            Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-01 20:26 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-01 11:41 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 19:24 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-01 15:56 -0700
              Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 19:12 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-02 09:45 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Rubin Yablokov <avoan@iio.ru> - 2025-04-02 09:13 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 09:45 -0700
  Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 17:42 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-01 20:38 +0200
      Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 19:15 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 21:24 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-02 11:45 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-02 13:33 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-02 17:46 +0000
            Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-03 10:18 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-03 10:39 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-03 20:51 +0000
  Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-01 19:56 +0200
    Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-01 20:17 +0200
    Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-01 20:44 +0200
      Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-01 20:54 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox Edilberto Gayazov <eovd@gogvo.ru> - 2025-04-01 21:26 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 19:19 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 21:42 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-02 10:21 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-02 10:29 +0200
    Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 19:06 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-02 12:00 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-02 17:58 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-03 10:18 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-03 10:40 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Darling Vassilopulos <sng@uu.gr> - 2025-04-03 18:50 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-03 21:51 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-03 22:03 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-03 22:58 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-04 11:49 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-05 09:37 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-04 07:48 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-04 07:56 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-05 09:31 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-04 12:02 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-04 08:07 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-04 12:13 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-04 14:41 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-03 20:54 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox Aether Regained <AetherRegaind@somewhere.in.the.aether> - 2025-04-02 19:32 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-02 21:33 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-02 21:33 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-03 10:39 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-03 10:43 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-03 20:56 +0000
              Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-04 14:55 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-04 15:49 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-04 22:11 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-05 14:57 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-04 21:15 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-05 11:32 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-05 12:00 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 20:53 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-06 22:02 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-06 22:09 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-06 23:30 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-07 07:10 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-06 22:34 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-07 10:49 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-07 11:20 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-06 07:03 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-04 21:47 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-05 20:57 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-05 21:01 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 12:14 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 21:03 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 21:55 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 22:15 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 22:46 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-05 21:01 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-06 15:15 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-06 13:51 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-06 19:03 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-04-07 09:02 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2025-04-07 11:38 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-06 19:01 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-07 11:12 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-06 07:08 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-03 21:37 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 22:02 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2025-04-09 14:07 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-09 19:58 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2025-04-09 18:28 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox Shirley Dovgusha <eedg@geiyrdy.ru> - 2025-04-10 12:23 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox Aether Regained <AetherRegaind@somewhere.in.the.aether> - 2025-04-10 20:02 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-10 22:30 +0200
      Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-13 03:00 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2025-04-14 00:15 -0500
        Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-14 09:25 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox Jared Vakulov Bian <arouj@rvove.ru> - 2025-04-14 07:43 +0000
          Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-14 21:01 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox Willilam Gutiérrez Xian <riii@mmaajlzt.es> - 2025-04-15 09:13 +0000
            Re: Muon paradox Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2025-04-15 08:41 -0500
              Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 18:25 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 11:26 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 21:34 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 13:38 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-16 11:14 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Erick Tamás <oadte@kksit.hu> - 2025-04-16 09:53 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 08:31 -0700
          Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 08:59 -0700
            Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 09:18 -0700
            Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 20:17 -0700
          Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-14 21:01 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-14 21:59 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 16:01 -0700
              Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 18:15 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 11:48 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 11:06 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 11:36 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 21:34 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 14:06 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-16 11:14 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 08:32 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 09:11 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-17 18:05 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-18 10:45 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Cash Kalabekov Lew <baaaa@aaac.ru> - 2025-04-18 14:11 +0000
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-20 10:45 -0700
              Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 11:48 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-15 12:03 +0200
                Re: Muon paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 11:22 -0700
                Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 21:34 +0200
      Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-15 22:10 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-15 22:33 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-15 23:40 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-16 13:00 +0200
            Re: Muon paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-16 13:24 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-16 15:45 +0200
              Re: Muon paradox Terrance Bahuta Lao <aubr@eee.ru> - 2025-04-17 16:36 +0000
            Re: Muon paradox Andrij Kabuzan <rnjdd@jnua.ru> - 2025-04-17 11:04 +0000
        Re: Muon paradox Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-15 23:39 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox Garth Bakshtanovski Jian <tsv@atr.ru> - 2025-04-17 11:23 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox Aether Regained <AetherRegaind@somewhere.in.the.aether> - 2025-04-10 20:07 +0000
  Re: Muon paradox Kent Bazhukov <zauako@kaoh.ru> - 2025-04-01 21:08 +0000
    Re: Muon paradox clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2025-04-01 21:21 +0000
      Re: Muon paradox Lane Babenkov <lkbaell@ae.ru> - 2025-04-01 22:01 +0000
  Re: Muon paradox "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-08 14:30 +0200
    Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-08 14:59 +0200
      Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-08 20:49 +0200
        Re: Muon paradox Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-04-09 08:32 +0200
          Re: Muon paradox "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-04-09 09:27 +0200

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