Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #654793

Re: Langevin's paradox again

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Langevin's paradox again
Date	2024-07-10 18:06 +0200
Message-ID	<lf7ps7F1bn5U2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<FER4K03RCuXsBiIlfVNSgR0vilQ@jntp> <FlDiO.56506$GVTf.837@fx01.ams4> <lf40ddFdu9kU3@mid.individual.net> <Qjq15Muw8aIiGRVOKV0Bu2oT9_k@jntp>

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Am Dienstag000009, 09.07.2024 um 15:47 schrieb Richard Hachel:
> Le 09/07/2024 à 07:33, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>> Am Sonntag000007, 07.07.2024 um 23:05 schrieb Paul B. Andersen:
>>> Den 04.07.2024 15:30, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>>> Langevin's paradox.
>>>> The Langevin paradox is a very serious criticism against the theory 
>>>> of relativity.
>>>
>>> Langvin's paradox is another name of the "twin paradox".
>>> In 1911 Langevin gave an example of said "paradox".
>>> He showed that the twins' would age differently.
>>> This was nothing new, Einstein gave an example of it
>>> in his 1905 paper, but he only mentioned the phenomenon
>>> without numbers. But Langevin gave an example where
>>> the "travelling twin" was moving at the speed 0.99995c
>>> (γ = 100) which made the "travelling twin" age 2 years
>>> while the "home twin" aged 200 years.
>>
>> I have tried to read Langvin's paper.
>>
>> But I actually failed to understand his arguments.
>>
>> It is based on rotations of zylinders and applying a Lorentz 
>> transformation to some effects.
>>
>> But actally I think, he made the same errors as Einstein did, because 
>> he assumed, that the journey of the travelling twin is made at 
>> constant velocity and that the effect would be the same for -v as for v.
>>
>> Both assumptions are wrong.
>>
>> Obviously wrong is constant velocity with a significant fraction of c.
>>
>> Langvin actually spoke of 'shot'.
>>
>> But that is blatant nonsense, since it would require accelerations 
>> strong enough to disintegrate the atoms of the traveling twin.
>>
>> Also ' v=-v' is total nonsense, especially if something similar to 
>> optical effects or similar to the Doppler effect are considered.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>> Neither Einstein nor Langevin thought that this falsified SR.
>>
>> Nor do I.
>>
>>
>> The twin paradox is nosense nevertheless.
>>
>> TH
> 
> Gentlemen, gentlemen, I beg you to stop talking nonsense.
> First, Langevin's paradox does not consist of saying that the two will 
> not be the same age, it is not a paradox.
> 
> If you pick two lettuces at the same time, and 48 hours later they do 
> not have the same state of freshness, this is not abnormal, and there is 
> no paradox for anyone who knows what it happened. I put one in the 
> fridge, and the other I left in full sun on the garden table for two days.
> 
> The paradox is not there.
> 
> The paradox is this: The greatest relativistic physicist in the universe 
> (Richard Hachel) said that the effects of physics are reciprocal by 
> permutation of observer, and therefore, if we take the INTERNAL 
> mechanism of two watches, each will beat faster than the other, both on 
> the outward and return journey, or during a long circular journey.


Actually I have not read Langvin's paper, but a paper about Langvin's 
paradox:
"Langevin's twin paradox and the forwards and backwards movement of a 
rotating cylinder experiment"

https://hal.science/hal-01003084v1

So, possibly, there is a difference between the origional and the quote.


> This is where the paradox lies.

I personally think, that velocity is irrelevant for 'time-dilation', 
while acceleration is not.

So I have problems with the 'twin paradox' per se.

TH

...

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Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 13:30 +0000
  Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-04 17:27 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-04 19:04 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-04 20:23 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 21:19 +0000
  Re: Langevin's paradox again hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-07-04 18:27 +0000
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-04 21:06 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-04 20:54 +0000
      Re: Langevin's paradox again hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-07-04 21:32 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Emette Warszawski Wei <wetz@sssrmwzt.pl> - 2024-07-04 22:14 +0000
  Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-07 23:05 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-07 23:25 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-07 22:49 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:19 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:21 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:37 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 14:17 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 16:07 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-08 17:57 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 12:58 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-08 16:00 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-10 20:51 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 00:26 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Cornelio Somogyi Xing <innli@lcrr.hu> - 2024-07-11 17:20 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Nesdy Pantelas <ssts@ynsap.gr> - 2024-07-11 17:42 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-08 20:30 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 21:05 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 15:12 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:14 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 15:56 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-08 10:57 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 15:05 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-08 13:33 +0000
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-08 14:57 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-08 16:25 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-08 13:11 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-09 07:33 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-09 13:47 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 16:54 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 17:02 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 17:35 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 17:47 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 19:05 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-09 19:08 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 19:55 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-09 22:54 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-09 23:17 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-09 21:36 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 12:42 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 12:25 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 14:49 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-10 14:51 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:17 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:19 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-11 13:55 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 13:33 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-10 18:06 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 16:25 +0000
        Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-10 21:01 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-10 21:24 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 20:41 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-10 20:47 +0000
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 00:02 +0000
            Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-11 14:41 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:39 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:42 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:49 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 12:56 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-12 14:03 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 14:11 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 13:44 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 20:36 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 20:46 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:11 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 13:32 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 12:23 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-15 14:26 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-15 14:58 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 15:16 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 13:23 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 22:18 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 20:39 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 13:02 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 12:35 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 22:30 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 20:43 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:30 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 17:34 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:59 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-15 15:28 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Haynh Molnár Jue <hlrrhm@omrh.hu> - 2024-07-16 17:00 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-07-12 15:27 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 17:34 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 17:46 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 20:32 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 20:27 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 22:55 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 20:39 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-11 16:31 +0200
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-11 18:29 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-11 20:55 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-11 21:04 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-12 12:40 +0300
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-12 11:58 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-14 13:32 +0300
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 15:34 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 15:05 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Finis Maryanna <mmin@isasmia.net> - 2024-07-14 18:43 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 13:02 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-14 18:31 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-12 15:29 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 13:55 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 01:34 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-14 02:02 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 19:12 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Conard Lèmmi <manc@mrm.it> - 2024-07-14 17:27 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 17:29 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 17:40 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 21:33 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 22:14 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:16 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-15 08:38 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 18:01 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 18:31 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-14 22:30 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-14 21:49 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 15:02 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 13:10 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-15 20:19 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 19:38 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 13:42 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 13:25 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 20:33 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 18:56 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:31 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 19:35 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 19:42 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 18:26 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 21:38 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Jean-Michel Affoinez y Lopez-Francos <jmaylf@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 20:35 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-19 21:09 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 19:34 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:32 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-22 10:47 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Tyrone Mokrousov <ysonon@yvosvoo.ru> - 2024-07-19 19:36 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 21:02 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-19 22:27 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 20:51 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-19 23:21 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-19 21:45 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-20 10:32 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:19 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-20 22:21 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-16 23:07 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-16 23:34 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 22:35 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 01:38 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 22:44 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 01:41 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 00:11 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 02:14 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 00:35 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 03:04 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 03:02 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 07:16 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 19:57 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 14:06 +0200
                Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 13:38 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-16 17:27 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:05 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-16 19:11 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-16 21:43 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-17 09:14 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-17 14:34 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 14:52 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:14 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 15:10 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:13 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 15:17 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-17 13:28 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-17 15:30 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-17 15:36 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-18 08:40 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 19:54 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-07-18 22:41 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-20 13:02 +0300
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-21 08:26 +0200
                Re: Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-18 21:25 +0000
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-19 12:16 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-19 12:21 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-20 08:15 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-07-20 16:03 +0200
                Re: Le piège parfait (the perfect trap) Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-21 08:55 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-07-15 18:17 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-14 06:37 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:02 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:17 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 16:39 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:42 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:32 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-12 14:39 +0000
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-07-12 16:41 +0200
  Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-11 13:14 +0200
    Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-12 08:11 +0200
      Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-12 09:32 +0200
        Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-13 09:30 +0200
          Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-13 10:27 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-07-13 09:36 +0000
              Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-14 10:22 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-15 09:51 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-15 11:50 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-15 12:20 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 09:10 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 17:02 +0200
                Re: Langevin's paradox again Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-07-16 09:22 +0200
            Re: Langevin's paradox again Codey Pasternak Miao <yno@epaotte.pl> - 2024-07-13 13:01 +0000
      Re: Langevin's paradox again nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-07-12 11:04 +0200

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