Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #620190

Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists.

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists.
Date	2023-09-13 10:41 +1000
Message-ID	<kmcepcFmpghU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<1qgys4u.1sru7edvmnxi3N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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On 13-Sept-23 6:54 am, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> We do the following neo-Roemer One Way Speed of Light experiment.
> We have two experimenters, A and B,
> both at rest in the same inertial frame.
> 
> Both have a state of the art atomic clock, of stability 10^-15
> with a 10 GHz oscilator and counter phase-locked to it,
> for a 0.1 nansecond read-out.
> 
> B in addition has a triggered laser flasher,
> that emits 1 picosecond light pulses with exactly 1 second intervals.
> (as determined by the counter locked to B's clock)
> 
> A detects the light pulses from B, and notes that these arrive
> at a fixed spacing from the pulses that his clock produces.
> Always the same advance or retard.
> 
> Now B (slowly) moves his clock and flasher 1 meter closer to A.
> 
> A, still tracking the incoming pulses from B,
> notices that they have advanced wrt his own pulses by 3.3 nanoseconds.
> 
> A phones B, and says,
> Hey, I notice that your pulses are now arriving 3.3 nanseconds early.
> You must have moved your clock/flasher 1 meter closer to me.
> B says, yes indeed, good that you could measure it.
> A says: so I conclude that the one way speed of light from you to me
> must be 0.3 meter/nanosecond.
> B says: indeed, that is precisely my conclusion.
> 
> Now for the no-OWSL fundies:
> please explain why this neo-Roemer experiment is not a OWSL measurement.
> 
> Note that the distance A-B has not been measured,
> and that the clocks at A and B have not been synchronised.
> Note further that the light is only going one way.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> PS The same experiment in slightly less idealised form
> is routinely done all the time in everyday practice,
> when tracking orbiting neutron stars, or spacecraft in the solar system,
> or yes, even Jovian satellites.
> 
> 
> 
> 

The problem here is that you need a theory of space-time in order to 
determine what effect, if any, moving the clock has. The fact that the 
clock moves slowly counts for nothing before you have a theory that says 
that moving it slowly has no significant effect. So your theory has to 
precede the experiment, and contains within it the thing you're trying 
to prove.

Sylvia.

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An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-12 22:54 +0200
  Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-13 10:41 +1000
    Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 00:30 -0700
      Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 00:35 -0700
    Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-13 15:05 +0200
      Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 06:20 -0700
        Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 08:38 -0700
          Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 10:04 -0700
            Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 17:09 -0700
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 21:10 -0700
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 22:12 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 12:16 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 11:39 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 18:13 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 21:58 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-14 21:54 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 18:06 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-15 10:56 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 02:10 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2023-09-15 07:03 -0700
            Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-13 22:53 -0400
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 21:16 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 12:26 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 11:40 -0700
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Monty Pats <ompt@sntymoat.sy> - 2023-09-14 09:11 +0000
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-14 12:02 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 03:45 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 12:42 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-14 21:54 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-14 18:20 -0400
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-15 10:56 +0200
          Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-14 12:02 +0200
      Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-14 11:35 +0300
        Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-14 12:41 +0200
          Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-14 03:48 -0700
          Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-15 12:11 +0300
            Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-15 12:29 +0200
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 03:49 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-09-15 13:03 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 04:13 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-09-15 16:15 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 08:19 -0700
              Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-15 14:49 +0300
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-15 15:29 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-15 17:54 +0300
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-15 20:39 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-15 12:03 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-16 11:52 +0300
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-16 02:46 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-20 20:57 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 14:27 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 22:55 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 23:08 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-21 11:04 +0200
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-21 22:36 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 00:58 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 02:10 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-09-22 09:30 -0500
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-22 13:16 +0300
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 03:27 -0700
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2023-09-22 13:10 +0300
                Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-09-22 16:36 +0200
  Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-12 23:08 -0700
    Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 00:33 -0700
  Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-09-13 18:36 -0700
  Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-21 16:18 -0700
    Re: An experiment for the no-OWSL fundamentalists. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-22 11:07 +1000

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