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Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity

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Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
> 
> Den 18.01.2025 20:56, skrev Richard Hachel:
> > Le 18/01/2025 à 20:25, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
> >
> >> Stella is in a rocket and is co-located with Terrence when
> >> she starts her rocket engine and accelerates at 1 c/year
> >> away from Terrence for 2.25 year on her clock.
> >> Then she turns her rocket around and accelerates at 1 c/year
> >> towards Terrence for 4.5 years.
> >> Then she turns her rocket around and accelerates (brakes) at 1 c/year
> >> away from Terrence for 2.25 years.
> >>
> >> The important point is:
> >>
> >> When Stella is back, Terrence and Stella are co-located and
> >> stationary to each other, and both can see both clocks which are
> >> side by side.
> >>
> >> Terrence can see that his watch shows tau_T
> >> and Stella's watch shows tau_S.
> >>
> >> Stella can see that her watch shows tau_S
> >> and Terrence's clock shows tau_T.
> 
> >
> > I've always said it, you're absolutely right,
> > the two times don't match.
> >
> > Stella looks at her watch, and she sees that her watch marks 9 years.
> >
> > She shows her watch to Terrence, and asks him what he sees, and he
> > answers: "Your watch marks nine years".
> >
> > I don't see where the difficulty is.
> >
> > On the other hand, Terrence asks Stella, and you, what do you see on my
> > watch, and she answers your watch marks 13.5 years.
> >
> > I don't understand how you can see a difficulty there.
> 
> We agree, there are no difficulties.
> 
> >
> > It's the notion of the relativity of time.
> >
> > The only thing that opposes us is the way you calculate the ratio of the
> > two watches, because you make a colossal error by using an incorrect
> > integration taught by the theorists, and which gives you a smaller
> > proper time, or a larger improper time.
> 
> We do not agree about the actual numbers.
> I tell what SR predicts, you tell what Hachel predicts.
> 
> The important point is that we agree that:
> Terrence's watch shows tau_T and Stella's watch shows tau_S,
> tau_T > tau_S and both can see both watches.
> 
> > Finally, you should not confuse chronotropy and the passage of time on
> > watches.
> >
> > The relationship between Tr and To is a relationship of chronotropy.
> >
> > The time that passes on watches is not ONLY that, you have to take into
> > account universal anisochrony, as well as the distances traveled by
> > watches (and not just their relative speed).
> >
> > This is what makes it so that although the mechanisms of watches have
> > always turned according to the same reciprocity, each one sees the other
> > which turns less quickly in its internal mechanism, and this explains,
> > as in the Langevin paradox, that however in the end, the two watches do
> > not correspond, while the reciprocity of the internal beats is perfect.
> >
> > It is anisochrony that will actually induce the shift, not chronotropy.
> >
> > I have told you this 50 times.
> >
> > You do not, but then not at all, make the effort to understand me,
> > stuck in the idea that physicists cannot be wrong.
> >
> > Your bad faith becomes faith.
> >
> 
> I can't see how all these words relate to the scenario at hand.
> 
> Here comes YOUR problem:
> 
> In the post I originally responded to, you, Richard Hachel wrote:
> | "What is true is that, continuously, second after second,
> |  in Terrence's frame of reference, the internal mechanism
> |  of Stella's watch will beat less quickly."
> 
> OK. This is your explanation for why tau_T > tau_S.
> According to Richard hachel:
>   "Stella looks at her watch, and she sees that her watch marks 9 years.
>    She shows her watch to Terrence, and asks him what he sees, and he
>    answers: "Your watch marks nine years".
>    On the other hand, Terrence asks Stella, what do you see
>    on my watch, and she answers your watch marks 13.5 years.
> 
> But you also wrote:
> > "But what is also true is that the laws of physics are the same
> >  in all frames of reference, and that the effects of physics
> >  are reciprocal by permutation of observer. For Stella it is
> >  the opposite that is true. For her, it is the internal mechanism
> >  of Terrence's watch that beats constantly less quickly, and this
> >  during his journey."
> 
> Doesn't this mean that Stella should see that Terrence watch
> shows less than her watch?
> 
> But you said:
>   "Stella looks at her watch, and she sees that her watch marks 9 years.
>    Terrence asks Stella, what do you see on my watch,
>    and she answers your watch marks 13.5 years."
> 
> How can Stella see that Terrence watch has two different readings at
> the same time?
> 
> Please explain.




Are you sayin Richard hachel is a fraudster? A con artists?? I'm
schocked! Sacre bleu!!!!




and paris is not a city of romance...




> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> A word about frames of reference.
> 
> The phrase "to be in different frames" is nonsense.
> 
> We both are in my rest frame.
> I am stationary, and you are probably moving.
> 
> We both are in your rest frame.
> You are stationary, and I am probably moving.
> 
> Saying "we are in different frames" sounds like we are in
> different worlds, with different realities.
> 
> But we are in the same world, the real world with one reality.
> 
> What's true in Terrence's rest frame is true in Stella's rest frame.
> There is but one world and one reality.
> 
> Remember this in your response.
> 
> --
> Paul
> 
> https://paulba.no/

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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Thread

Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-17 01:37 +0000
  Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-17 13:32 +0100
    Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-17 14:33 +0100
    Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-18 08:47 +0000
    Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-18 09:04 +0000
      Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-18 09:10 +0000
      Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-18 20:28 +0100
        Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-18 19:56 +0000
          Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-19 14:44 +0100
            Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-19 14:57 +0000
              Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-20 20:26 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-21 10:30 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-21 14:27 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-21 13:46 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-21 16:00 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-21 15:35 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-21 16:31 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-21 16:51 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-22 22:13 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-23 07:41 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-23 07:50 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-23 08:02 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-23 21:34 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-23 23:10 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-23 08:22 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-23 21:54 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-23 23:12 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-23 22:59 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-01-24 12:19 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-24 11:46 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-25 07:39 +0100
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-23 09:45 +0000
                Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2025-01-21 10:56 +0000
            Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-19 12:14 -0800
        Re: Understanding the theory of special relativity Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-18 23:08 +0100

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