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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #481403 > unrolled thread

Contactors/Relays

Started byDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
First post2017-10-14 18:16 +0000
Last post2017-10-15 09:49 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 46 — 11 participants

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Contents

  Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-14 18:16 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 15:38 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-18 22:32 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-18 23:11 -0400
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:11 +0000
            Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 15:02 -0400
              Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-19 18:48 -0400
                Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 23:02 -0400
                  Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-20 00:49 -0400
                    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-20 12:03 -0400
                      Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-20 13:17 -0400
                        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-21 09:52 -0400
                          Re: Contactors/Relays Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-21 12:23 -0400
                            Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-21 13:00 -0400
                              Re: Contactors/Relays Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-21 19:23 -0400
                                Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-22 09:24 -0400
                                  Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 18:59 +0000
                        Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:25 +0000
                      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-26 05:00 +0000
                        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-29 13:23 -0400
                          Re: Contactors/Relays Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-30 16:04 -0400
                          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-11-03 06:07 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-10-19 13:00 +0300
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:23 +0000
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-26 05:04 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 15:52 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:03 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-14 16:20 -0400
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:04 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-19 03:49 -0400
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-22 06:18 +0000
            Re: Contactors/Relays rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-10-22 03:57 -0400
    Re: Contactors/Relays edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-10-14 14:15 -0700
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-15 03:36 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> - 2017-10-15 12:07 -0400
          Re: Contactors/Relays mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> - 2017-10-15 09:19 -0700
            Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:10 +0000
          Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:08 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays edward.ming.lee@gmail.com - 2017-10-16 08:48 -0700
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:06 +0000
    Re: Contactors/Relays Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> - 2017-10-14 21:20 +0000
      Re: Contactors/Relays David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2017-10-19 06:07 +0000
        Re: Contactors/Relays legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2017-10-19 23:11 -0400
    Re: Contactors/Relays John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-10-14 16:43 -0700
    Re: Contactors/Relays upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-10-15 10:20 +0300
    Re: Contactors/Relays Neon John <no@never.com> - 2017-10-15 09:49 -0400

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#483571

FromMichael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
Date2017-10-30 16:04 -0400
Message-ID<RALJB.119562$pR.35521@fx04.iad>
In reply to#483444
legg wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 05:00:03 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>>
>>
>>> About the only power control circuits I can think of ......
>>
>> I hope you're not unhappy to learn that there are situations you
>> didn't think of, and are unlikely to, especially given I've only
>> given one tiny part of a bigger picture to you.
>
> It would be a pleasure to be enlightened, should you deign to do so.


    He couldn't be so smug, if he did that.

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#483887

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-11-03 06:07 +0000
Message-ID<oth134$759$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#483444
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:


>It would be a pleasure to be enlightened, should you deign to do so.

It's about a product still under development; that's why I am
being circumspect, not to revel in non-communication.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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#482101

Fromupsidedown@downunder.com
Date2017-10-19 13:00 +0300
Message-ID<aqtgucpv8f1uasbtr7dk5gd1bdtbemgp19@4ax.com>
In reply to#482021
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 22:32:46 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>
>
>>Are you still insisting on DIN rail mounting?
>
>No, but that's the least important aspect.... not finding any mounting type...

Do you have room for three separate relays each with a single NC
contact ?

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#482426

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-22 06:23 +0000
Message-ID<oshdg8$krp$3@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#482101
upsidedown@downunder.com writes:

>Do you have room for three separate relays each with a single NC
>contact ?

The issue there is will the AHJ allow such....

But wait! I did not check any Aussie relay suppliers; they should
be able to help me out...

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#483004

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-26 05:04 +0000
Message-ID<osrqda$a71$4@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#482101
upsidedown@downunder.com writes:


>Do you have room for three separate relays each with a single NC
>contact ?

Yes. The issue there is will the local inspector be happy with
same.  

But it will likely be two, as I have found the 2 pole
LC1D80008B7 but then the task becomes finding a distributor who
knows how to order them from Schneider ......

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#481412

Fromlegg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
Date2017-10-14 15:52 -0400
Message-ID<6eq4ucdtln441kldascthk0eicnpge51ge@4ax.com>
In reply to#481403
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.
>
>Anyone seen such?
>
>

https://www.galco.com/shop/Open-Transfer-Switches

Add your own solenoid.

RL

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#482084

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:03 +0000
Message-ID<os9f7e$4b4$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481412
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:

>>Anyone seen such?
>>
>>

>https://www.galco.com/shop/Open-Transfer-Switches

>Add your own solenoid.

Or pay someone to turn it for us....

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#481414

Fromlegg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>
Date2017-10-14 16:20 -0400
Message-ID<9bs4uctcdrta6uv47oh5rfplk6m0m8dcdh@4ax.com>
In reply to#481403
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:16:57 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
>It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
>
>So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
>flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
>second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
>course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
>"close coil, open coil" flavor.
>
>Anyone seen such?

http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html

RL

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#482086

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:04 +0000
Message-ID<os9f92$4b4$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481414
legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:

>>Anyone seen such?

>http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html

NO not NC main contacts.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#482095

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-10-19 03:49 -0400
Message-ID<os9ldk$cti$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#482086
David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>
>>> Anyone seen such?
>
>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>
> NO not NC main contacts.

Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts 
should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not 
compatible.

-- 

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

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#482425

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-22 06:18 +0000
Message-ID<oshd7l$krp$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#482095
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

>David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
>> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>>
>>>> Anyone seen such?
>>
>>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>>
>> NO not NC main contacts.

>Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts 
>should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not 
>compatible.

I meant your suggestion was NFG because it is NO; I need NC.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#482428

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-10-22 03:57 -0400
Message-ID<oshj0t$s8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#482425
David Lesher wrote on 10/22/2017 2:18 AM:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> David Lesher wrote on 10/19/2017 2:04 AM:
>>> legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>>> Anyone seen such?
>>>
>>>> http://gencontrol.co.uk/3-pole--9a-95a--nc1-type-.html
>>>
>>> NO not NC main contacts.
>
>> Now I'm confused.  Above you said if control power drops the relay contacts
>> should close.  Here you say they should be NO.  Those two things are not
>> compatible.
>
> I meant your suggestion was NFG because it is NO; I need NC.

NFG?  Not Functioning on Ground?

It wasn't my suggestion.  I'm just having trouble following some of the 
conversation.

-- 

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

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#481417

Fromedward.ming.lee@gmail.com
Date2017-10-14 14:15 -0700
Message-ID<6f291332-d241-4006-a9f3-253ebf4a7c8e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#481403
On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 11:17:00 AM UTC-7, David Lesher wrote:
> I have futilely been seeking 100A 3ph NC/Form B relays/contactors.
> It seems they are all stashed in the "unicorn eggs" box, sigh.
> 
> So a second design approach involves dual coil relays. The
> flavor I seek has one larger coil to close the relay, and a
> second, much lower power holding coil to keep it closed.  Of
> course, I'm not finding them either. The ones I unearth are
> "close coil, open coil" flavor.
> 
> Anyone seen such?

This will handle 100A:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-100A-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-DC-DC-Input-3-32V-DC-Load-5-220VDC-DD220D100-/371874809407?hash=item569577463f:g:1HsAAOSwfVpYroYw

But you might need to build the 3Ph to DC converter.

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#481454

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-15 03:36 +0000
Message-ID<orul4n$ap9$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481417
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com writes:


>This will handle 100A:

>http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-100A-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-DC-DC-Input-3-32V-DC-Load-5-220VDC-DD220D100-/371874809407?hash=item569577463f:g:1HsAAOSwfVpYroYw

>But you might need to build the 3Ph to DC converter.

??

I'm switching 3ph 208 VAC.
SSR's are not usable; 1.4V drop * 3 * 100A = 420 watts of heat to sink per relay.

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#481494

FromM Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>
Date2017-10-15 12:07 -0400
Message-ID<MPG.344d51c2870d58d398a050@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#481454
In article <orul4n$ap9$1@reader2.panix.com>, wb8foz@panix.com says...
> 
> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> >This will handle 100A:
> 
> >http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-100A-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-DC-DC-Input-3-32V-DC-Load-5-220VDC-DD220D100-/371874809407?hash=item569577463f:g:1HsAAOSwfVpYroYw
> 
> >But you might need to build the 3Ph to DC converter.
> 
> ??
> 
> I'm switching 3ph 208 VAC.
> SSR's are not usable; 1.4V drop * 3 * 100A = 420 watts of heat to sink per relay.

look at 3 pole lighting contactors.

Also, automatic transfer switch 3 pole contactors.

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#481496

Frommpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
Date2017-10-15 09:19 -0700
Message-ID<7cd92694-4c8b-41ae-b126-dfd5c84bac97@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#481494
On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 12:00:55 PM UTC-4, M Philbrook wrote:
 
> look at 3 pole lighting contactors.
> 
> Also, automatic transfer switch 3 pole contactors.

What Philbrook said:
Automatic transfer switch.
Some manufacturers I've had GOOD experience with:
Onan / Cummins
Russelectric (Expensive!, but wonderful equipment!!)
Caterpillar / CAT
Koheler, but I don't recall if they make their own 3-Ph units?

"OK" Experience:
Camsco  https://www.camsco.com.tw/automatic-transfer-switch/w2h-250a.html 
Generac (except for their big 50kW+ LPG/Propane generators, which are crap!)

BAD Experience:
Zenith - Holds the World Record for sloppiest re-transfer in-sync monitor.
(Actually, the phase monitor ain't bad, it's the switch that truly sucks!)
They probably don't even make these anymore?

The above assumes a one-off "project".
If you're looking to roll-your-own design, then ignore the above - although researching the respective designs may give you some ideas.

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#482091

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:10 +0000
Message-ID<os9fjt$4b4$6@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481496
mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> writes:

>On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 12:00:55 PM UTC-4, M Philbrook wrote:
> 
>> look at 3 pole lighting contactors.
>> 
>> Also, automatic transfer switch 3 pole contactors.

>What Philbrook said:
>Automatic transfer switch.

Nope. I want a relay with NC contacts; Form B...

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#482089

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:08 +0000
Message-ID<os9fgp$4b4$5@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481494
M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> writes:


>look at 3 pole lighting contactors.

>Also, automatic transfer switch 3 pole contactors.

None appear to be NC 100A....

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#481606

Fromedward.ming.lee@gmail.com
Date2017-10-16 08:48 -0700
Message-ID<d65c7401-bdc4-48e8-be0b-15cf639838ee@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#481454
On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 8:36:59 PM UTC-7, David Lesher wrote:
> edward.ming.lee@gmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> >This will handle 100A:
> 
> >http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-100A-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-DC-DC-Input-3-32V-DC-Load-5-220VDC-DD220D100-/371874809407?hash=item569577463f:g:1HsAAOSwfVpYroYw
> 
> >But you might need to build the 3Ph to DC converter.
> 
> ??
> 
> I'm switching 3ph 208 VAC.
> SSR's are not usable; 1.4V drop * 3 * 100A = 420 watts of heat to sink per relay.

You probably did more research than me; so, i'll take your words for it.  Voltage drop of 1.4V seems too high and the 3ph factor is more than 1, but less than 3.

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#482087

FromDavid Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com>
Date2017-10-19 06:06 +0000
Message-ID<os9fcs$4b4$3@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#481417
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com writes:


>This will handle 100A:

>http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-100A-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-DC-DC-Input-3-32V-DC-Load-5-220VDC-DD220D100-/371874809407?hash=item569577463f:g:1HsAAOSwfVpYroYw

Again NO not NC; further 1.5v Vfwd * 3 phases * 100A * 24 circuits == many watts of heat.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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