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Groups > sci.electronics.design > #488750 > unrolled thread
| Started by | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-12-19 07:00 -0500 |
| Last post | 2017-12-23 15:09 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 175 — 17 participants |
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OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 07:00 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-12-19 08:37 -0600
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 09:49 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 10:00 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 09:56 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-19 08:53 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 12:20 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 14:27 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-19 15:24 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:39 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-19 20:53 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 10:08 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:19 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-20 10:32 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:11 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 21:52 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:56 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:24 -0500
Re: Muppets "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-19 16:48 -0600
Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:08 -0500
Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:26 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:01 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:46 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:56 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 19:25 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 16:44 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:01 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 07:59 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:07 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:31 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 14:33 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:00 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 16:06 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-21 12:14 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 17:58 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 12:58 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:21 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 16:12 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 01:32 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:40 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:02 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 16:47 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:16 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 10:50 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:17 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:00 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 08:08 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:09 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-20 09:17 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:26 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:37 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:58 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 11:17 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:14 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:18 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:48 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:04 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:55 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:59 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:30 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 19:40 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:41 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 22:38 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:52 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-21 14:53 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:32 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:30 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 16:37 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 08:57 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 10:23 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 17:23 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 14:53 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 18:57 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 20:10 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 20:57 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:07 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:04 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 07:39 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:03 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 12:09 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:17 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:27 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:49 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:50 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 16:56 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 14:37 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 17:51 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 15:15 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:41 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 23:33 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 05:48 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 09:57 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 17:29 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2017-12-25 20:38 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 21:23 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:47 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 19:09 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-26 00:33 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-26 15:13 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 22:10 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-25 07:18 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:25 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-29 02:01 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-28 21:42 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 19:47 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-29 01:04 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 23:56 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 10:55 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-28 21:41 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:39 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:46 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 12:23 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-25 21:57 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:47 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:31 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 18:36 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:10 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:13 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:41 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:42 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 14:16 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 22:56 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:12 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 15:26 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 23:37 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:42 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:26 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-21 08:45 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-21 09:29 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-20 15:30 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:08 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:36 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:09 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:28 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:02 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 16:33 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 21:09 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 22:55 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 09:38 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-21 18:06 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 21:59 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 02:56 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 11:45 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 18:02 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 22:39 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 23:01 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 09:05 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 10:04 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 14:00 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:51 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:15 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:38 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:43 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 21:25 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 09:58 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 08:29 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 06:06 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 17:53 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 03:41 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 09:12 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 15:32 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 08:52 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:40 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 19:49 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:55 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 20:03 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:53 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-22 20:49 +0000
Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 16:26 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:36 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 08:19 -0500
Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:30 -0800
Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 15:09 -0500
Page 3 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next page →
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 08:02 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f9vfsdFf8hfU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #488828 |
On 2017-12-19 17:32, Steve Wilson wrote: > Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: > >> On 2017-12-19 16:25, rickman wrote: >>> Joerg wrote on 12/19/2017 6:56 PM: >>>> On 2017-12-19 15:46, rickman wrote: [...] >>>>> I recall riding the subway and looking up the tunnel I could just see >>>>> the tail of a train that left the station and was preventing the next >>>>> train from coming to pick us up. > >>>> Subways often have good automation in the US. It's the railroads that >>>> are on >>>> Flintstonian technology. > > [...] > >> Well, in this case we do have a clue how to do the job better. Since >> more than half a century. > > I recall a system where the blocks were electrically isolated from each > other. > > The resistance between the rails was monitored. When a train entered the > block, the axles shorted the rails together and the resistance dropped. > You could tell which direction the train was moving by watching the > resistance increase or decrease. You could tell how long the train was by > seeing how many blocks were shorted. > > This seems to be an ideal way to detect where the train is, which > direction it is moving, and how fast. > > I wonder if this system was ever used, and what happened to it. > No idea. The German system works inductively and non-contact is usually the best method when you have to deal with contaminants such as oily sludge, snow, water and so on. Vandalism or dangerous pranks are another issue. Thing is, you also have to curb the number of false alarms because any delay has painful consequences. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 16:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA85177DFD1168idtokenpost@69.16.179.22> |
| In reply to | #488863 |
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >> I recall a system where the blocks were electrically isolated from each >> other. >> The resistance between the rails was monitored. When a train entered >> the block, the axles shorted the rails together and the resistance >> dropped. You could tell which direction the train was moving by >> watching the resistance increase or decrease. You could tell how long >> the train was by seeing how many blocks were shorted. >> This seems to be an ideal way to detect where the train is, which >> direction it is moving, and how fast. >> I wonder if this system was ever used, and what happened to it. > No idea. The German system works inductively and non-contact is usually > the best method when you have to deal with contaminants such as oily > sludge, snow, water and so on. Vandalism or dangerous pranks are another > issue. Thing is, you also have to curb the number of false alarms > because any delay has painful consequences. Some people have been recommending GPS, which has its own set or pros and cons. Multipath, jamming, doesn't work in tunnels without repeaters: https://www.gps-repeaters.com/applications/gps-repeaters-for-tunnels/ On the other hand, it is cheap, easily installed, and can transmit location back to central control. It looks like Amtrack is already starting to use GPS to track train location: https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/amtrak-passengers-track-trains-gps-trackin g/ If this is true, it wouldn't take much to have it reduce speed in slow sections. Cheap GPS receivers could be replaced with airline navigation receivers which monitor the GPS signal and issue an alert if it becomes unreliable. PTC on a shoestring.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 13:16 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1e9dp$h7n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488866 |
Steve Wilson wrote on 12/20/2017 11:47 AM: > Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: > >>> I recall a system where the blocks were electrically isolated from each >>> other. > >>> The resistance between the rails was monitored. When a train entered >>> the block, the axles shorted the rails together and the resistance >>> dropped. You could tell which direction the train was moving by >>> watching the resistance increase or decrease. You could tell how long >>> the train was by seeing how many blocks were shorted. > >>> This seems to be an ideal way to detect where the train is, which >>> direction it is moving, and how fast. > >>> I wonder if this system was ever used, and what happened to it. > >> No idea. The German system works inductively and non-contact is usually >> the best method when you have to deal with contaminants such as oily >> sludge, snow, water and so on. Vandalism or dangerous pranks are another >> issue. Thing is, you also have to curb the number of false alarms >> because any delay has painful consequences. > > Some people have been recommending GPS, which has its own set or pros and > cons. Multipath, jamming, doesn't work in tunnels without repeaters: > > https://www.gps-repeaters.com/applications/gps-repeaters-for-tunnels/ What good does that do? Your reported location will be that of the antenna! > On the other hand, it is cheap, easily installed, and can transmit > location back to central control. But not completely reliable. GPS has issues where you don't have a clear view of a large area of the sky such as in mountainous or urban environments. > It looks like Amtrack is already starting to use GPS to track train > location: > > https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/amtrak-passengers-track-trains-gps-tracking/ This is a passenger convenience system! It doesn't address any of the safety issues involved in using GPS to control the speed of a train. > If this is true, it wouldn't take much to have it reduce speed in slow > sections. Cheap GPS receivers could be replaced with airline navigation > receivers which monitor the GPS signal and issue an alert if it becomes > unreliable. What do you do with an alert? > PTC on a shoestring. Yes, that's what people want, a PTC system that works *most* of the time. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 10:50 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <c2d39f28-ca13-4c40-9541-03d931936fa0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #488873 |
On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 10:16:32 AM UTC-8, rickman wrote: > Steve Wilson wrote on 12/20/2017 11:47 AM: > > Some people have been recommending GPS, which has its own set or pros and > > cons. Multipath, jamming, doesn't work in tunnels without repeaters: > > > > https://www.gps-repeaters.com/applications/gps-repeaters-for-tunnels/ > > What good does that do? Your reported location will be that of the antenna! It's like having an 'occupied' flag on a restroom. You know the location, 'in the tunnel', well enough not to ram another train into it.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 14:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1ed06$cpn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488881 |
whit3rd wrote on 12/20/2017 1:50 PM: > On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 10:16:32 AM UTC-8, rickman wrote: >> Steve Wilson wrote on 12/20/2017 11:47 AM: > >>> Some people have been recommending GPS, which has its own set or pros and >>> cons. Multipath, jamming, doesn't work in tunnels without repeaters: >>> >>> https://www.gps-repeaters.com/applications/gps-repeaters-for-tunnels/ >> >> What good does that do? Your reported location will be that of the antenna! > > It's like having an 'occupied' flag on a restroom. You know the location, > 'in the tunnel', well enough not to ram another train into it. I don't need to have a GPS tell me I'm in the tunnel! There is no more information in using the GPS repeater than just knowing you lost sight of the sats as you entered the tunnel. In fact, the repeaters might interfere with the GPS signal at the edges of the tunnel slightly reducing the precision of the fix as the train enters the tunnel. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | krw@notreal.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 22:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <5l8m3dd696esalb4rjnkl9kcfuqhcfho0f@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #488866 |
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 16:47:02 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote: >Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: > >>> I recall a system where the blocks were electrically isolated from each >>> other. > >>> The resistance between the rails was monitored. When a train entered >>> the block, the axles shorted the rails together and the resistance >>> dropped. You could tell which direction the train was moving by >>> watching the resistance increase or decrease. You could tell how long >>> the train was by seeing how many blocks were shorted. > >>> This seems to be an ideal way to detect where the train is, which >>> direction it is moving, and how fast. > >>> I wonder if this system was ever used, and what happened to it. > >> No idea. The German system works inductively and non-contact is usually >> the best method when you have to deal with contaminants such as oily >> sludge, snow, water and so on. Vandalism or dangerous pranks are another >> issue. Thing is, you also have to curb the number of false alarms >> because any delay has painful consequences. > >Some people have been recommending GPS, which has its own set or pros and >cons. Multipath, jamming, doesn't work in tunnels without repeaters: > >https://www.gps-repeaters.com/applications/gps-repeaters-for-tunnels/ Nonsense. Dead reckoning would work fine for tunnels. It's not like you're digging them as you go. Since the path is so constrained, it would correct reflections and other issues, as well. >On the other hand, it is cheap, easily installed, and can transmit >location back to central control. > >It looks like Amtrack is already starting to use GPS to track train >location: > >https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/amtrak-passengers-track-trains-gps-trackin >g/ > >If this is true, it wouldn't take much to have it reduce speed in slow >sections. Cheap GPS receivers could be replaced with airline navigation >receivers which monitor the GPS signal and issue an alert if it becomes >unreliable. > >PTC on a shoestring. Use it as another tool for the engineer. Hell, my GPS tells me when I'm speeding, warns of school zones, and even railroad tracks. It would be a trivial exercise to add the maps of the entire NA rail system.
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| From | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 08:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <Dht_B.7438$qV5.3144@fx37.iad> |
| In reply to | #488825 |
On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-12-19 16:25, rickman wrote: >> Joerg wrote on 12/19/2017 6:56 PM: >>> On 2017-12-19 15:46, rickman wrote: >>>> Joerg wrote on 12/19/2017 6:01 PM: >>>>> On 2017-12-19 04:00, bitrex wrote: >>>>>> <https://jalopnik.com/what-causes-amtrak-trains-to-derail-1821404755> >>>>>> >>>>>> $800 million spent on the project you'd think they could spend a few >>>>>> bucks on a crew that knew how to slow down going around a curve. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The really sad news is that the technology to avoid this has been >>>>> around and >>>>> successfully used in Germany since before World War II. They call it >>>>> Inductive Train Safeguarding or Indusi. That slows down and even >>>>> brings >>>>> trains to a full stop, overriding an offending operator. It is not >>>>> rocket >>>>> science. >>>>> >>>>> Yet we have all those so-called "licensed engineers" who are >>>>> supposed to >>>>> "safeguard the public" and blah-blah, then fail on the simplest and >>>>> most >>>>> obvious points. They should never have signed and stamped such >>>>> "system" >>>>> designs. Yet they did and that has killed people over and over again. >>>> >>>> The DC metro was fully automated until the accident that killed nine >>>> people by a train hitting a stopped train that wasn't seen by the >>>> system. >>> >>> >>> Did they ever find out why the system did not register the stopped >>> train? >> >> I posted that in another comment. > > > Must have been in another thread. > > >> ... The device in that block had a weird >> rapid intermittent that the system didn't recognize as a failure, but it >> didn't report the train. Maybe the system should provide some feedback >> to the train operator so if the system looses track of a train, at least >> the operator knows and can alert someone to manually flag it's position. >> > > There are better ways than that, see further below. > > >> That is what is different between train dispatch and air traffic >> control, at least with an automated system. The train dropped off the >> map and the system didn't flag an error. I think it operates at a more >> fundamental level based on always knowing when a train is in a block and >> not letting traffic into that block or any adjacent block. No thought >> to tracking anything. >> > > That is a serious system design error. > >> >>> One of the nine was the operator who didn't put on the brakes >>>> until the train was less than 500 feet from the back of the other >>>> train. I didn't follow the series of Post articles to find out how >>>> much >>>> sooner she could have seen the stopped train. One train should never >>>> see another, stopped or not. >>>> >>> >>> That is one of the accidents that the German Indusi system prevents. It >>> disects pretty much their whole rail system into blocks. A train will >>> not be >>> allowed to enter a block in which another train is present, moving or >>> not. >>> If the operator won't apply the brakes in time the Indusi system >>> overrides. >>> I believe nowadays that event is being recorded and the operator >>> would be >>> required to do some explaining. >> >> How is this different from the US system? Sounds just like what was >> described in the paper. >> > > As I said it divides a track into blocks of sections. There are WW-II > movies where the resistance and sabotage groups mess with the Nazi train > system (which they had partly equipped with this Indusi system). You can > see the big screens that show where the trains were. Big white boards > with lights in them. That's pretty much how my grandpa who was a train > engineer described it to me. > >> >>> It is not 100% fail-safe and there are some lonely single-line sections >>> without this automation but it would have prevented most of the serious >>> train wrecks we had in the US. >> >> How does a German system prevent US wrecks? >> > > If a detector into sector 16 misses a train then this train is assumed > not to have left sector 15 even if it did. That means that a train > traveling through sector 14 will be stopped via a sign which cannot be > set to "GO" until sector 15 is signaled as clear. If the train operator > fails to engage the brakes the train will be stopped automatically. Sort > of a double-safety. This can result in a huge traffic clog but that is > better than people dying. > > >> >>>> I recall riding the subway and looking up the tunnel I could just see >>>> the tail of a train that left the station and was preventing the next >>>> train from coming to pick us up. >>>> >>> >>> Subways often have good automation in the US. It's the railroads that >>> are on >>> Flintstonian technology. >> >> They still have a great safety record. It's only being discussed here >> because it is sensational. > > > Many train wrecks were avoidable with rather simpe, technology. Like > this one: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chatsworth_train_collision > > >> ... The real disaster is autos. But everyone >> accepts that. > > > True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and > in part because most people don't have any other options. Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for a while? Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0>
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 08:09 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f9vga8Ffb4tU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #488848 |
On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: > On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: [...] >> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >> in part because most people don't have any other options. > > Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for > a while? > > Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, > couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 09:17 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <qg6l3dti4lif6j7122dd997ie579nhbc42@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #488864 |
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:09:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: > >[...] > >>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >> >> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >> a while? >> >> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> > > >It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also >made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom >power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so >north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, >drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an >Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer >from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their >measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't >even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. You can do the equivalent with airplanes: have people go to airports on both ends. But it travels 600 MPH, not 60. The USA is big. Surface shipping coast to coast will take days. I can order from Digikey at 5PM and have parts on my desk by the time I show up the next morning. That's amazing. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 13:26 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1ea15$h7n$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488867 |
John Larkin wrote on 12/20/2017 12:17 PM: > On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:09:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>> >>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>> a while? >>> >>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >> >> >> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >> days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >> more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also >> made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom >> power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so >> north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, >> drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an >> Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer >>from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their >> measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't >> even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. > > You can do the equivalent with airplanes: have people go to airports > on both ends. But it travels 600 MPH, not 60. > > The USA is big. Surface shipping coast to coast will take days. > > I can order from Digikey at 5PM and have parts on my desk by the time > I show up the next morning. That's amazing. The amazing part is that Digikey can inventory, pick and ship so many items to so many customers in such a short time. Their warehouse must be an amazing example of automation. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-21 10:37 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <fa2db8F5l8uU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #488867 |
On 2017-12-20 09:17, John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:09:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>> >>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>> a while? >>> >>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >> >> >> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >> days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >> more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also >> made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom >> power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so >> north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, >> drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an >> Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer >>from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their >> measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't >> even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. > > You can do the equivalent with airplanes: have people go to airports > on both ends. But it travels 600 MPH, not 60. > However, the days of handing a box to a pilot so he can stuff it under the seat are long gone. I think nowadays they'd arrest you for even trying. > The USA is big. Surface shipping coast to coast will take days. > > I can order from Digikey at 5PM and have parts on my desk by the time > I show up the next morning. That's amazing. > Yes, it is amazing. I didn't mean for parts shipment. We used the railroad method for shorter distances and often picked our suppliers within such reach on purpose. Think California Coast. If that had a decent railroad system like much of Europe does you can have a buggy unit in L.A. in three hours or so, someone could debug it there and have it back to you by evening. All within one day. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-21 10:58 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <v11o3d5c3ju8vrrfop4tc90a12q41qr6nk@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #488967 |
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:37:36 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-12-20 09:17, John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:09:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>>> >>>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>>> a while? >>>> >>>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >>> >>> >>> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >>> days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >>> more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also >>> made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom >>> power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so >>> north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, >>> drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an >>> Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer >>>from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their >>> measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't >>> even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. >> >> You can do the equivalent with airplanes: have people go to airports >> on both ends. But it travels 600 MPH, not 60. >> > >However, the days of handing a box to a pilot so he can stuff it under >the seat are long gone. I think nowadays they'd arrest you for even trying. > > >> The USA is big. Surface shipping coast to coast will take days. >> >> I can order from Digikey at 5PM and have parts on my desk by the time >> I show up the next morning. That's amazing. >> > >Yes, it is amazing. I didn't mean for parts shipment. We used the >railroad method for shorter distances and often picked our suppliers >within such reach on purpose. Think California Coast. If that had a >decent railroad system like much of Europe does you can have a buggy >unit in L.A. in three hours or so, someone could debug it there and have >it back to you by evening. All within one day. I prefer my customers to keep a lot of spares around. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
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| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-21 11:17 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <fa2fmqF66l9U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #488971 |
On 2017-12-21 10:58, John Larkin wrote: > On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:37:36 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-12-20 09:17, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 08:09:51 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>>>> >>>>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>>>> a while? >>>>> >>>>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>>>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >>>> >>>> >>>> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >>>> days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >>>> more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also >>>> made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom >>>> power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so >>>> north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, >>>> drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an >>>> Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer >>> >from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their >>>> measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't >>>> even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. >>> >>> You can do the equivalent with airplanes: have people go to airports >>> on both ends. But it travels 600 MPH, not 60. >>> >> >> However, the days of handing a box to a pilot so he can stuff it under >> the seat are long gone. I think nowadays they'd arrest you for even trying. >> >> >>> The USA is big. Surface shipping coast to coast will take days. >>> >>> I can order from Digikey at 5PM and have parts on my desk by the time >>> I show up the next morning. That's amazing. >>> >> >> Yes, it is amazing. I didn't mean for parts shipment. We used the >> railroad method for shorter distances and often picked our suppliers >> within such reach on purpose. Think California Coast. If that had a >> decent railroad system like much of Europe does you can have a buggy >> unit in L.A. in three hours or so, someone could debug it there and have >> it back to you by evening. All within one day. > > I prefer my customers to keep a lot of spares around. > Same here. It's more for R&D when you need something new done to a unit that can only be done at the mfg. We recently had that a lot on a sensor project and every Fedex transit meant at least one day. On days with very blustery weather or storms several days. Nice thing about this train method was that the trains ran no matter what, even when the airport was all frozen over. The drive to the train station could be iffier than anything else but at least that was only a few miles. The town also had heavy electric buses that were quite reliable in snow. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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| From | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 14:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ZDy_B.7759$RV5.2071@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #488864 |
On 12/20/2017 11:09 AM, Joerg wrote: > On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: > > [...] > >>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >> >> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >> a while? >> >> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> > > > It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger > days in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes > more. Not only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also > made for a fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom > power supply made near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so > north and time was of the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, > drove it to the next station, gave it to the guy that loaded an > Intercity train and about 5h later it was in Munich where an engineer > from the supplier also drove to the station to pick it up. We had their > measurement results and a mod suggestion the same day. That wouldn't > even have been possible with Fedex, and this was in the 80's. > Amtrak has one train you can get your car packed up on, you'd think one way to increase long-distance profitability would be to run auto racks on the major cross-country routes to let you take your vehicle along with.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 14:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1ed2n$cpn$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488885 |
bitrex wrote on 12/20/2017 2:14 PM: > On 12/20/2017 11:09 AM, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>> >>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>> a while? >>> >>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >> >> >> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger days >> in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes more. Not >> only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also made for a >> fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom power supply made >> near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so north and time was of >> the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, drove it to the next >> station, gave it to the guy that loaded an Intercity train and about 5h >> later it was in Munich where an engineer from the supplier also drove to >> the station to pick it up. We had their measurement results and a mod >> suggestion the same day. That wouldn't even have been possible with Fedex, >> and this was in the 80's. >> > > Amtrak has one train you can get your car packed up on, you'd think one way > to increase long-distance profitability would be to run auto racks on the > major cross-country routes to let you take your vehicle along with. My understanding is this is an expensive service. If you are going on vacation you are better off either driving or renting a car when you get there. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 14:48 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <i8z_B.6636$EO4.2684@fx28.iad> |
| In reply to | #488887 |
On 12/20/2017 02:18 PM, rickman wrote: > bitrex wrote on 12/20/2017 2:14 PM: >> On 12/20/2017 11:09 AM, Joerg wrote: >>> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>>> >>>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>>> a while? >>>> >>>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >>> >>> >>> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger >>> days >>> in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes >>> more. Not >>> only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also made for a >>> fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom power supply >>> made >>> near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so north and time >>> was of >>> the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, drove it to the next >>> station, gave it to the guy that loaded an Intercity train and about 5h >>> later it was in Munich where an engineer from the supplier also drove to >>> the station to pick it up. We had their measurement results and a mod >>> suggestion the same day. That wouldn't even have been possible with >>> Fedex, >>> and this was in the 80's. >>> >> >> Amtrak has one train you can get your car packed up on, you'd think >> one way >> to increase long-distance profitability would be to run auto racks on the >> major cross-country routes to let you take your vehicle along with. > > My understanding is this is an expensive service. If you are going on > vacation you are better off either driving or renting a car when you get > there. > Probably depends on how long you're staying, car rentals ain't cheap anymore particularly if you want to drive anything nice. Minimum $30/day for a subcompact in a metro area, plus fees. The Auto Train is one of Amtrak's consistently most popular services year round, and one of the most profitable, too. They were looking at doing a second route from Chicago -> Phoenix but not sure if anything came of it
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 16:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1ej8h$sdg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488888 |
bitrex wrote on 12/20/2017 2:48 PM: > On 12/20/2017 02:18 PM, rickman wrote: >> bitrex wrote on 12/20/2017 2:14 PM: >>> On 12/20/2017 11:09 AM, Joerg wrote: >>>> On 2017-12-20 05:08, bitrex wrote: >>>>> On 12/19/2017 07:44 PM, Joerg wrote: >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>> True. That's in part because our nation is glued to the automobile and >>>>>> in part because most people don't have any other options. >>>>> >>>>> Remember when Amtrak tried to get into the freight hauling business for >>>>> a while? >>>>> >>>>> Trains like these were a common sight in the Northeast in the 1990s, >>>>> couple coaches and about 10 intermodal freight and boxcars: >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmINmRLAJr0> >>>> >>>> >>>> It would make sense. I remember the passenger trains from my younger days >>>> in Germany. They usually had at least one freight car, sometimes more. Not >>>> only did this allow you to "check in" large baggage, it also made for a >>>> fast shipment option. Once we had an issue with a custom power supply made >>>> near Munich. Problem was, we were about 350mi or so north and time was of >>>> the essence. So I looked at the train schedules, drove it to the next >>>> station, gave it to the guy that loaded an Intercity train and about 5h >>>> later it was in Munich where an engineer from the supplier also drove to >>>> the station to pick it up. We had their measurement results and a mod >>>> suggestion the same day. That wouldn't even have been possible with Fedex, >>>> and this was in the 80's. >>>> >>> >>> Amtrak has one train you can get your car packed up on, you'd think one way >>> to increase long-distance profitability would be to run auto racks on the >>> major cross-country routes to let you take your vehicle along with. >> >> My understanding is this is an expensive service. If you are going on >> vacation you are better off either driving or renting a car when you get >> there. >> > > Probably depends on how long you're staying, car rentals ain't cheap anymore > particularly if you want to drive anything nice. Minimum $30/day for a > subcompact in a metro area, plus fees. > > The Auto Train is one of Amtrak's consistently most popular services year > round, and one of the most profitable, too. They were looking at doing a > second route from Chicago -> Phoenix but not sure if anything came of it You do this a lot. You say things you can't support. I looked at prices on the autotrain and the only info I could find was a Post article. They paid $573 one way. I wasn't initially able to book anything on the Amtrak site. Then I found this less than flattering review https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34515-i19-k5234998-Amtrak_Auto_Train_Orlando_Washington-Orlando_Florida.html which indicated the actual station in Orlando is Sanford and I was able to get a price from Amtrak, $920 round trip for two and one car. Airfare is very inexpensive and this would pay for a lot of car rental. My understanding is the auto train is mostly snow birds. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 16:55 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <1%A_B.50006$mG5.36126@fx10.iad> |
| In reply to | #488893 |
On 12/20/2017 04:04 PM, rickman wrote: >> Probably depends on how long you're staying, car rentals ain't cheap >> anymore >> particularly if you want to drive anything nice. Minimum $30/day for a >> subcompact in a metro area, plus fees. >> >> The Auto Train is one of Amtrak's consistently most popular services year >> round, and one of the most profitable, too. They were looking at doing a >> second route from Chicago -> Phoenix but not sure if anything came of it > > You do this a lot. You say things you can't support. I looked at > prices on the autotrain and the only info I could find was a Post > article. They paid $573 one way. I wasn't initially able to book > anything on the Amtrak site. Then I found this less than flattering review > > https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34515-i19-k5234998-Amtrak_Auto_Train_Orlando_Washington-Orlando_Florida.html > > > which indicated the actual station in Orlando is Sanford and I was able > to get a price from Amtrak, $920 round trip for two and one car. > Airfare is very inexpensive and this would pay for a lot of car rental. > My understanding is the auto train is mostly snow birds. > Oh, okay, some guy on the Internet didn't like it. Not big surprise, bitchin' is what those review sites are made for.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 16:59 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <p1emf4$iga$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #488896 |
bitrex wrote on 12/20/2017 4:55 PM: > On 12/20/2017 04:04 PM, rickman wrote: > >>> Probably depends on how long you're staying, car rentals ain't cheap anymore >>> particularly if you want to drive anything nice. Minimum $30/day for a >>> subcompact in a metro area, plus fees. >>> >>> The Auto Train is one of Amtrak's consistently most popular services year >>> round, and one of the most profitable, too. They were looking at doing a >>> second route from Chicago -> Phoenix but not sure if anything came of it >> >> You do this a lot. You say things you can't support. I looked at prices >> on the autotrain and the only info I could find was a Post article. They >> paid $573 one way. I wasn't initially able to book anything on the Amtrak >> site. Then I found this less than flattering review >> >> https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34515-i19-k5234998-Amtrak_Auto_Train_Orlando_Washington-Orlando_Florida.html >> >> >> which indicated the actual station in Orlando is Sanford and I was able to >> get a price from Amtrak, $920 round trip for two and one car. Airfare is >> very inexpensive and this would pay for a lot of car rental. My >> understanding is the auto train is mostly snow birds. >> > > Oh, okay, some guy on the Internet didn't like it. Not big surprise, > bitchin' is what those review sites are made for. Yes, there is no shortage of bitchin', especially by you. Did you read the complaints? No, you would rather speculate on what runs are profitable and which aren't. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
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| From | bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-20 18:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <toC_B.3771$b_.3415@fx23.iad> |
| In reply to | #488897 |
On 12/20/2017 04:59 PM, rickman wrote: >>> which indicated the actual station in Orlando is Sanford and I was >>> able to >>> get a price from Amtrak, $920 round trip for two and one car. >>> Airfare is >>> very inexpensive and this would pay for a lot of car rental. My >>> understanding is the auto train is mostly snow birds. >>> >> >> Oh, okay, some guy on the Internet didn't like it. Not big surprise, >> bitchin' is what those review sites are made for. > > Yes, there is no shortage of bitchin', especially by you. Did you read > the complaints? No, you would rather speculate on what runs are > profitable and which aren't. > Ya, some of his major complaints seem to be that you have to wait for your automobile to be loaded and unloaded from a train that hauls a couple hundred automobiles which have to be loaded and unloaded, that a train that terminates in Orlando not Ft. Lauderdale leaves you kinda far from Ft. Lauderdale, and that the train speeds up and slows down. ?????
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