Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.electronics.design > #726241 > unrolled thread

Exploding pagers

Back to article view | Back to sci.electronics.design

Contents

  Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-09-17 13:18 -0500
    Re: Exploding pagers TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com> - 2024-09-17 22:21 +0100
      Re: Exploding pagers Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-17 15:32 -0700
    Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-17 15:39 -0700
      Re: Exploding pagers piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-17 22:53 +0000
        Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-18 15:12 -0400
          Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 16:46 -0400
      Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-17 19:03 -0400
        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-17 16:32 -0700
          Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-17 21:56 -0400
            Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-17 21:09 -0700
              Re: Exploding pagers John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> - 2024-09-17 21:56 -0700
                Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 02:45 -0400
                Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:53 +0000
                Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 07:52 -0700
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-18 17:19 +0000
                  Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 19:03 -0700
                    Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-19 14:09 +1000
              Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-18 16:33 +1000
                Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 03:00 -0400
                  Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-18 17:25 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:42 +0000
                Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 08:03 -0700
              Re: Exploding pagers chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> - 2024-09-18 15:00 +0100
                Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 08:04 -0700
                  Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-19 20:27 +1000
                    Re: Exploding pagers noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> - 2024-09-19 22:47 +1000
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-18 17:30 +0000
                  Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-18 11:08 -0700
                    Re: Exploding pagers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-18 22:01 +0200
                      Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-18 13:40 -0700
                        Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 20:29 +0000
                          Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-19 14:05 -0700
                      Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 16:48 -0400
                        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 18:57 -0700
                          Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-19 20:24 +1000
                            Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-09-19 10:47 -0500
                        Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 20:26 +0000
                          Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-19 14:07 -0700
                            Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-20 15:15 +1000
                              Re: Exploding pagers John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 08:37 +0100
                                Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-20 07:41 +0000
                                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-20 16:47 +0000
                              Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-20 10:17 +0100
                                Re: Exploding pagers John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 10:56 +0100
                            Re: Exploding pagers Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2024-09-21 11:03 -0700
                              Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-21 12:48 -0700
                                Re: Exploding pagers Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2024-09-21 14:46 -0700
                  Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-19 06:24 +0000
          Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-18 11:01 +0200
            Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-18 12:55 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> - 2024-09-19 22:43 +1000
                Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-19 15:38 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-19 07:45 -0700
                Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-19 15:30 +0000
                  Re: Exploding pagers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-19 23:38 +0200
                    Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-19 15:00 -0700
                      Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-20 15:29 +1000
            Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-18 17:34 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 14:46 -0400
                Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-18 13:07 -0700
                  Re: Exploding pagers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-18 22:23 +0200
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 20:11 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-18 14:52 -0400
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 20:18 +0000
                  Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-20 15:45 +1000
              Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-18 13:06 -0700
                Re: Exploding pagers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-18 22:46 +0200
                  Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-18 14:33 -0700
                  Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-19 10:21 +0200
                Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-19 20:32 +1000
            Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-18 16:32 -0400
              Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-19 10:23 +0200
                Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-19 09:27 -0400
                  Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-19 23:53 +1000
              Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-19 07:42 -0700
                Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-19 11:52 -0400
      Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:37 +0000
        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-18 08:07 -0700
        Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 21:01 +0000
          Re: Exploding pagers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-19 23:51 +0200
            Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-20 16:59 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-20 17:10 +0000
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-20 23:54 +0100
              Re: Exploding pagers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-20 19:45 +0200
          Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-20 04:42 +0000
          Re: Exploding pagers liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-20 09:57 +0100
            Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-20 16:57 +0000
              Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-20 17:16 -0400
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-21 00:04 +0100
                  Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-21 18:01 +1000
                  Re: Exploding pagers Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2024-10-02 20:56 +0100
                    Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2024-10-02 14:06 -0700
                      Re: Exploding pagers Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-10-03 04:15 +0200
                        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-10-02 19:51 -0700
                          Re: Exploding pagers Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> - 2024-10-03 10:33 -0400
                            Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-10-04 06:50 +0000
                              Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-05 00:09 +1000
                                Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-10-04 15:25 +0000
                                  Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-10-04 18:27 +0100
                                    Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-05 14:31 +1000
                                    Re: Exploding pagers Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2024-10-06 00:07 +0000
                                      Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-10-06 09:02 +0100
                                        Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-06 20:24 +1100
                                  Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-05 14:17 +1000
                              Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-10-04 07:58 -0700
                                Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-10-04 15:06 -0500
                                  Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-10-05 00:08 +0100
                                    Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-05 14:54 +1000
                                Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-10-05 14:44 +1000
                    Re: Exploding pagers Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 15:31 +1000
                      Re: Exploding pagers Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2024-10-03 10:05 +0100
                        Re: Exploding pagers Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-10-03 11:58 +0200
                          Re: Exploding pagers Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2024-10-03 20:26 +0100
                            Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:33 +0200
                              Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-10-04 06:56 +0000
                                Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-10-04 08:02 -0700
                                  Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-10-04 18:41 +0100
                              Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-10-04 14:52 -0500
                    Re: Exploding pagers Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-10-03 10:23 -0400
    Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:30 +0000
    Re: Exploding pagers Wanderer<dont@emailme.com> - 2024-09-18 12:34 +0000
      Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-19 21:06 +0000
    Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-09-19 10:59 -0500
      Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-19 09:18 -0700
        Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-09-20 12:19 -0500
      Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-20 12:42 +0200
        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-20 11:05 -0700
          Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-21 10:21 +0100
            Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-21 08:21 -0700
              Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-21 17:55 +0100
                Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-22 15:04 +0200
                  Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-22 15:17 +0100
                  Re: Exploding pagers Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2024-09-22 19:11 +0200
                    Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-22 18:38 +0100
                      Re: Exploding pagers "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-22 22:27 +0200
                      Re: Exploding pagers dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) - 2024-09-23 10:40 -0700
                  Re: Exploding pagers Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-23 07:29 +0000
            Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-21 19:24 +0100
              Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-21 20:51 +0100
                Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-21 23:30 +0100
                  Re: Exploding pagers liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-22 09:04 +0100
                  Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-22 10:38 +0100
                    Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-22 13:35 +0100
                      Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-22 13:48 +0100
                        Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-22 15:21 +0100
                          Re: Exploding pagers Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-22 17:05 +0100
                            Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-22 17:35 +0100
                              Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-23 13:07 +1000
                                Re: Exploding pagers Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> - 2024-09-23 13:21 -0500
                                  Re: Exploding pagers Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> - 2024-09-23 18:57 -0400
                  Re: Exploding pagers Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> - 2024-09-22 09:47 -0400
    Re: Exploding pagers liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-19 18:00 +0100
    Re: Exploding pagers Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> - 2024-09-20 12:36 +0200
      Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-20 17:05 +0000
        Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-20 11:09 -0700
      Re: Exploding pagers john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-20 11:07 -0700
        Re: Exploding pagers Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> - 2024-09-21 00:07 +0100
          Re: Exploding pagers Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-21 16:21 +1000

Page 7 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8  Next page →

#726263

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500) it happened Crash Gordon
<uucp@crashelex.com> wrote in <vcch5i$3klpd$1@dont-email.me>:

>Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. 
>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped 
>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted 
>individuals.
>
>This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would 
>be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be 
>expected.
>
>Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. 
>  Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers 
>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like 
>explosives.  Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the 
>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has 
>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

I have just read on RT (en.wpc.rt.com has address 89.191.237.192 if case it is blocked type 89.191.237.192 in your browser)
that e batteros were repalced with ones conating explosives:

Quoting RT:
Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
 The remotely detonated explosions were “reckless” and indiscriminate, the former NSA contractor argued
 Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
 People arrive at the Red Cross building in Beirut to donate blood following a series of pager explosions in Lebanon on September 17, 2024.
 ©  Houssam Shbaro / Anadolu / Getty Images
 The wave of synchronized pager explosions in Lebanon was “reckless” because the method did not account for potential civilian casualties, Edward Snowden has said.
 At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured across Lebanon when handheld pagers used by Hezbollah members simultaneously exploded on Tuesday.
 The pro-Palestinian militant group has blamed Israel for “sinful aggression” and vowed to retaliate.
 Israel has not acknowledged any involvement in the blasts.
 The Jewish state, however, has conducted airstrikes against Hezbollah members in the past and threatened more “military action” if the group does not stop its cross-border attacks on Israelis.
 Writing on X on Tuesday, Snowden suggested the pagers had likely detonated due to “implanted explosives” rather than being hacked because there were “too many consistent, very serious injuries.”

 “What Israel has just done is, via *any* method, reckless,” the former NSA contractor argued.
 “They blew up countless numbers of people who were driving (meaning cars out of control), shopping (your children are in the stroller standing behind him in the checkout line), et cetera.
 Indistinguishable from terrorism.”

 Sky News Arabia cited its sources as saying that the Israeli spy agency Mossad placed “a quantity” of the highly explosive material PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate) in the batteries of the pagers, and remotely detonated them by raising the temperature of the batteries.
 The rigged devices were reportedly part of a shipment that arrived in Lebanon earlier this year.
 Eight killed, thousands injured as pagers explode across Lebanon (VIDEO)

 The Lebanese authorities said civilians were among those injured.
 France 24 cited a Hezbollah source as saying a 10-year-old daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
 The group acknowledged on Wednesday that eight of its members had been killed, according to Sky News Arabia.

 Former IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus pushed back against accusations that the explosions were tantamount to “indiscriminate” attacks.

 “Indiscriminate?? This is as surgical as you could possibly get, only targeting Hezbollah operatives that were important enough to have been issued special comms devices,” he wrote on X.
 He added that Hezbollah has been “attacking Israel for over 11 months, forcing 70K Israelis out of their homes.” 

 Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant warned on Monday that “military action” would be necessary to ensure the safety of Israelis living in the areas close to the Lebanese border.
 US officials, however, have publicly discouraged Israel from taking steps that could trigger a full-blown war in Lebanon.

 You can share this story on social media:


Will Usenet last?

Every action has a reaction israhell!!!!!!!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726282

How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now? 
Now among the fake eclipse glasses and replacement batteries 
that catch fire and other cheap Chinese fakes, we also have 
to worry about terrorism. Let's open up a new front on supply
chain terrorism. Israel only hit military targets. Explain that
to people who strap bombs on to themselves and blow up rooms full
of people. How do you protect against supply chain terrorism? 
How do you keep Gaza protesters from selling on ebay? I remember 
Tylenol tampering and whole industries had to adopt tamper proof 
products. What now, cradle to grave tracking on all products.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726352

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:34:34, Wanderer wrote:

> How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?

Right now, yes. Going forward: no.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726341

On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. 

I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of 
*how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.

Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would 
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed 
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was 
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet 
said it should be.

Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat 
up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find 
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the 
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it 
over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent 
heating when the battery is being charged.

The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries 
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

-- 
I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and 
leave everyone alone.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726343

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:59:43 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:

>On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
>> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. 
>
>I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of 
>*how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.
>
>Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would 
>detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed 
>these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was 
>wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet 
>said it should be.
>
>Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat 
>up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find 
>a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the 
>pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it 
>over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent 
>heating when the battery is being charged.
>
>The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries 
>but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726412

On 9/19/2024 11:18 AM, john larkin wrote:
> It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

That's (apparently) what was done.  But these were put in the battery, 
so that a supply-chain attack wouldn't involve complex modification of 
the devices in transit.  Instead, just replace the batteries -- the 
device appears normal to visual exam, and functionality (other than 
battery life) is unchanged.

Some reports said that the pagers beeped continuously for some time 
before detonating, which supports the "heating the battery" theory.  A 
single page would only create a small amount of heat, which could 
dissipate over several minutes.  But repeated activations would allow 
the heat to build up.

The heat doesn't necessarily set off the warhead directly; rather it 
could trigger a thermal sensor to activate a small detonator cap to set 
off the main charge.  There's a battery right there to power all this.

It's also possible they found a zero-day in the firmware that allowed 
them to send a crafted message which accessed the BMS signal path, then 
sent a command to a custom BMS IC.


 > easier

Easier isn't always better in spycraft.

-- 
I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and 
leave everyone alone.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726391

On 2024-09-19 17:59, Crash Gordon wrote:
> On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
>> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. 
> 
> I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of 
> *how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.
> 
> Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would 
> detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed 
> these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was 
> wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet 
> said it should be.
> 
> Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat 
> up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find 
> a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the 
> pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it 
> over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent 
> heating when the battery is being charged.

But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to 
achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some 
type of code, maybe a string.

Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the 
"receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are 
totally innocent.

I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact 
pagers in storage that they can investigate.

> The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries 
> but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.
> 

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726415

On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:42:19 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-09-19 17:59, Crash Gordon wrote:
>> On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
>>> Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. 
>> 
>> I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of 
>> *how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.
>> 
>> Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would 
>> detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed 
>> these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was 
>> wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet 
>> said it should be.
>> 
>> Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat 
>> up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find 
>> a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the 
>> pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it 
>> over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent 
>> heating when the battery is being charged.
>
>But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to 
>achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some 
>type of code, maybe a string.
>
>Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the 
>"receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are 
>totally innocent.
>
>I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact 
>pagers in storage that they can investigate.
>
>> The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries 
>> but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.
>> 

Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.

It would be interesting to see what they did. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726437

On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

<snip>
> 
> Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
> analyzed.
> 
> It would be interesting to see what they did.
> 
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something 
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with 
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing 
in steel.

Would that work?

I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to 
include some GSM circuitry?

-- 
Cheers
Clive

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726444

On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>
><snip>
>> 
>> Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
>> analyzed.
>> 
>> It would be interesting to see what they did.
>> 
>I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something 
>suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with 
>gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing 
>in steel.
>
>Would that work?

Detonators are usually a fine wire or nowadays a metallic thin film
resistor that heats up very fast, in microseconds, and starts some
primer material, which then detonates the main charge.

I was talking to a guy at a flea market who designs nukes. He said
that modern gadgets use an explosive that is very hard to trigger;
ordinary detonators won't work. They use a tiny thing, a substrate
with a thin-film resistor coated with some special primer stuff. That
thing is embedded in the main explosive.

You can see some similar detonators at the visitors center in Los
Alamos.

>
>I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to 
>include some GSM circuitry?

Just a pager message, probably.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726455

On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
>>> analyzed.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to see what they did.
>>>
>> I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
>> suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
>> gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
>> in steel.
>>
>> Would that work?
> 
> Detonators are usually a fine wire or nowadays a metallic thin film
> resistor that heats up very fast, in microseconds, and starts some
> primer material, which then detonates the main charge.
> 
> I was talking to a guy at a flea market who designs nukes. He said
> that modern gadgets use an explosive that is very hard to trigger;
> ordinary detonators won't work. They use a tiny thing, a substrate
> with a thin-film resistor coated with some special primer stuff. That
> thing is embedded in the main explosive.
> 
> You can see some similar detonators at the visitors center in Los
> Alamos.
> 
>>
>> I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
>> include some GSM circuitry?
> 
> Just a pager message, probably.
> 
Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

-- 
Cheers
Clive

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726496

On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>

...

>>> I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
>>> include some GSM circuitry?
>>
>> Just a pager message, probably.
>>
> Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need 
repeaters, even a repeater network.

That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or 
ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if 
desired. And without fees.

I don't know the name of the system.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726499

On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>
>...
>
>>>> I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
>>>> include some GSM circuitry?
>>>
>>> Just a pager message, probably.
>>>
>> Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?
>
>There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need 
>repeaters, even a repeater network.
>
>That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or 
>ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if 
>desired. And without fees.
>
>I don't know the name of the system.

TETRA.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726505

On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need 
>repeaters, even a repeater network.


If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
each other without any connection to a base station.

This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
base station infrastructure is inoperative.
-- 
RoRo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726506

On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 19:11:54 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need 
>>repeaters, even a repeater network.
>
>
>If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
>each other without any connection to a base station.
>
>This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
>base station infrastructure is inoperative.

They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
reckoned to be unbreakable. Hopefully not in the same way as the
Titannic was "unsinkable" if you will. Overall, it's a highly
effective and flexible system ideally suited for police and security
service use.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726509

On 2024-09-22 19:38, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 19:11:54 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need
>>> repeaters, even a repeater network.
>>
>>
>> If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
>> each other without any connection to a base station.
>>
>> This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
>> base station infrastructure is inoperative.
> 
> They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
> reckoned to be unbreakable. Hopefully not in the same way as the
> Titannic was "unsinkable" if you will. Overall, it's a highly
> effective and flexible system ideally suited for police and security
> service use.

Right.

It can also be used by users like transport fleets.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726529

In article <3al0fjt8v2v2d9v4gc12uc69ple2rl3jg2@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom  <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
>>each other without any connection to a base station.

>They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
>reckoned to be unbreakable.

That was the claim.

As of 2023, there are significant reasons to doubt this claim.  Several
fundamental flaws in the TETRA encryption were identified (and some
had been noticed even as early as the 2006 Wikileaks document dump).

See, for example,

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366545593/Tetra-radio-users-comms-may-have-been-exposed-for-years

In short, the TEA1 encryption algorithm is pretty badly horked.  Its
effective key strength is only 32 bits :-( and breaking a session key
can be done trivially on an ordinary laptop in a minute or so.

There are debates as to whether this was the result of a deliberate
back-dooring of the encryption algorithm (to e.g. allow intelligence
organizations to decrypt communications), or whether it's the result
of a common problem: "behind closed doors" design of cryptographic
architectures which turn out to be flawed in ways that a public
review by knowledgeable cryptographers would have avoided.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726514

On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <78h5skxljq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

>On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
>>> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>
>...
>
>>>> I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
>>>> include some GSM circuitry?
>>>
>>> Just a pager message, probably.
>>>
>> Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?
>
>There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need 
>repeaters, even a repeater network.
>
>That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or 
>ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if 
>desired. And without fees.
>
>I don't know the name of the system.

Being a radio-ham, I have a Baofeng 2 way radio.
At 70 cm wavelength there are several country wide networks.
Some need a special code to transmit to it.
Baofengs are cheap on ebay.
 https://www.ebay.com/b/Baofeng/bn_21820271
Not sure which ones have the explosives.. ;-)
Mine is still working after many years...
 https://www.rtlsdr.nl/uhf-repeaters-430-mhz/
you need a license to transmit..
Is also used by truckers like 27 MHz was long ago here...
The networks can be used as emergency service if needed.
 https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2016/08/how_to_manually_program_the_baofeng_uv-5r_from_the_keypad.html

There is a lot more to it...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726458

On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
>
><snip>
>> 
>> Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
>> analyzed.
>> 
>> It would be interesting to see what they did.
>> 
>I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something 
>suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with 
>gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing 
>in steel.
>
>Would that work?

Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.

>
>I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to 
>include some GSM circuitry?

They might concievably have used CTCSS. The more recent versions would
most certainly be able to do this.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#726463

On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
> <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>> I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
>> suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
>> gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
>> in steel.
>>
>> Would that work?
> 
> Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
> near in fact.
> 

So what would happen?

-- 
Cheers
Clive

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 7 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.electronics.design

csiph-web