Re: Op-amp mystery

From	piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Op-amp mystery
Date	2024-09-12 08:27 +0100
Organization	A patent noisesome spinner
Message-ID	<vbu558$4nm1$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<1qznz5d.1m219rjmrzni6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <rhm0ejtf032lq1g2q7kkvl20081gsd1v8r@4ax.com> <vbt7de$3r928$2@dont-email.me>

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On 11/09/2024 23:59, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
> On 9/10/24 16:47, john larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 10:31:37 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>>
>>> It's always the stupid things that cause the most trouble:
>>>
>>> I was working on a fairly straightforward experimental audio circuit
>>> using TL074 op-amps laid out on Veroboard, which is prone to inter-track
>>> shorts unless you are very careful with your soldering.   The gain of a
>>> virtual-earth stage was too high, so I altered some resistor values to
>>> cut it down.
>>
>> Show us a pic of your breadboard!
>>
>>>
>>> As this was a stereo system, I experimented with one channel first and
>>> then switched off and replaced the equivalent resistors in the second
>>> channel (one of the other op-amps in the same chip).
>>>
>>> The input signal was a 6 Kc/s sinwave at about -10 dBu.  After the
>>> modification, the volume control, which was in a feedback loop, didnt
>>> seem to make much difference.  Then I realised that applying the signal
>>> to the left channel gave a distorted version of it in the right channel
>>> and vice-versa.  Obviously I had shorted two tracks somewhere - but
>>> where?
>>>
>>> Things got even worse when I realised that the input signal was
>>> appearing on the virtual earth input of each op-amp, this definitely
>>> can't happen!  I decided it was time to switch off the power supply and
>>> go and ponder the problem over a cup of tea.
>>>
>>> That was the point where I discovered I hadn't switched the power supply
>>> on in the first place.
>>
>> Sometimes people note that a CMOS circuit works properly with no power
>> supply, because some ESD diodes are rectifying a logic input.
> 
> until all the inputs are low, then it only works until the bypass cap is 
> discharged ;)
> 
> seem to remember seeing a boost converter made from just a cmos gate and 
> an inductor, using the output as input and the supply pins as output via 
> the ESD diodes, but I can't find it again, but I found this
> 
> https://www.edn.com/efficient-voltage-doubler-is-made-from-generic-cmos-inverters/
> 
> 
> 

It is possible you were remembering my posting this in April 2016:

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8n4fz5o0r79rkmbn05j1a/micropowerBoost.pdf?rlkey=v1w9vm0his1pzd3lwd93dsm3v&st=5x8irpk6&raw=1>

All power flows through the inductor. The ESD diodes are only involved 
during startup, once oscillator running the output stage n-fet is the 
boost switch and the p-fet is the synchronous rectifier. A version built 
using 74HC132 was in a successful product which needed micropower 5V 
from 2-3V input.

piglet

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Thread

Op-amp mystery liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-10 10:31 +0100
  Re: Op-amp mystery Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-10 05:27 -0700
  Re: Op-amp mystery john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-10 07:47 -0700
    Re: Op-amp mystery Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-10 15:05 +0000
    Re: Op-amp mystery Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2024-09-12 00:59 +0200
      Re: Op-amp mystery Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-11 19:00 -0700
      Re: Op-amp mystery john larkin <JL@gct.com> - 2024-09-11 19:10 -0700
      Re: Op-amp mystery piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-12 08:27 +0100
        Re: Op-amp mystery Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-12 10:12 +0000
    Re: Op-amp mystery liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-12 13:21 +0100
      Re: Op-amp mystery piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2024-09-12 14:34 +0000
        Re: Op-amp mystery liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-12 18:03 +0100
  Re: Op-amp mystery John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> - 2024-09-10 12:38 -0700
    Re: Op-amp mystery Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-11 12:15 -0700
      Re: Op-amp mystery liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2024-09-11 21:35 +0100
        Re: Op-amp mystery Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-11 18:37 -0700
  Re: Op-amp mystery legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> - 2024-09-11 09:29 -0400

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