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Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them.

From Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them.
Date 2024-09-08 00:02 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <vbipiq$1k0jo$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <vbbmn9$8mib$1@dont-email.me> <j2fjdjhn1e4uht19jlundnl45mtanlsghq@4ax.com> <60cd9dfe-42b7-8d6c-d101-8e771bc762e8@electrooptical.net> <7oakdjl3maqislrtoba0lunseakhroo22o@4ax.com> <NHknlWwLIQIumCNTcOxTkFklwQHMrNgK@bonus.frugalusenet.com>

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bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
> On 9/5/2024 6:06 PM, john larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 10:49:42 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2024-09-05 10:14, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 5 Sep 2024 07:30:50 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 4 Sep 2024 17:54:19 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
>>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>>>> <6b1217f0-f55b-95b4-6516-6914d18d0e91@electrooptical.net>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The NTE2403, similar to the BFT92, but a bit better overall.  Dunno who
>>>>>>> actually made them. (I saw the news on s.e.repair today.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rochester claims to have 1,500,000 of the 2SA1462 (1.8 GHz) for 20
>>>>>>> cents, but that's all she wrote.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have a couple of reels of BFT92s and one of BFG31s, so I'm good for
>>>>>>> protos and small production, but I can't use PNP wraparound bootstraps
>>>>>>> for customer designs anymore. :(
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Barstids.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lots if RF snall signal low noise stoff in LNBs:
>>>>>> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-Design_guide_for_RF-transistors_and_diode_in_Low-Noise-Block-ApplicationNotes-v01_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7e7124d1017f01f071aa5b8f
>>>>>> Does that help?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Complete LNBs inclusive transistors and peeseebees are 5 dollies on ebay.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks.  It’s not a 50-ohm system, so using those would be hard. I have
>>>>> thousands  for personal use, but can’t put them in licensed designs, which
>>>>> is what I’m moaning about.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>> 
>>>> Can you use mmics? There are some really cool, fast, cheap, low-noise
>>>> things around. Just because the RF boys test everything at 50 ohms
>>>> doesn't mean we have to use them at 50 ohms.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> For the wraparound topology, which is the second-best follower I know of,
>>> 
>>> VDD 0------*---------*
>>> |         |
>>> R         |
>>> R         |
>>> R         /
>>> |       |V
>>> *-------|  BFT92
>>> |       |\
>>> |--*         \
>>> In  0-->|  CPH3910   |
>>> |--*         |
>>> |         |
>>> |         |
>>> *---------*----0   Follower output
>>> |
>>> V (tail current source)
>>> 
>>> the BJT needs to be a PNP.
>>> 
>>> It's a nice circuit, because the PNP reduces the output impedance a lot
>>> without adding much noise at all--way better than an NPN follower after
>>> the FET.
>>> 
>>> Because of the local feedback, the transistors need to be fairly
>>> different in speed to maintain stability.  The FET is about a 750-MHz
>>> device, so a 5-GHz PNP is great.  The alternative would be a 100-MHz
>>> PNP, which would be too depressing to contemplate. :(
>>> 
>>> The very best follower topology I know about is a fancy bootstrapped
>>> version of the White cathode follower, where the feedback is applied via
>>> the tail source.  That's much harder to stabilize, because there are
>>> three transistors in the local feedback loop, but on the other hand its
>>> gain is 0.9997 at baseband and above 0.995 at 10 MHz.  (You can't
>>> readily measure those sorts of numbers directly, so I inferred them from
>>> its performance as a bootstrap.)
>>> 
>>> The reason I care about getting such accurate bootstraps is a bit
>>> subtle--probably I'd have enough bandwidth improvement with a gain of
>>> 0.9, but that extra 10% shows up as a gnarly settling transient at late
>>> times, which screws up measurements.  0.9997 is dramatically better.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Phil Hobbs
>> 
>> The CPH3910 is a jfet. Might an un-assisted PHEMT be better?
>> 
> 
> What about a PFET/JEFT cascode buffer kinda like:
> 
> <https://imgur.com/a/5fBR8Gb>
> 

There aren’t any decent discrete pfets left, and there never was a 5 GHz
one. 

Cheers 

Phil Hobbs 

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs  Principal Consultant  ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics  Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

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Thread

Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-04 17:54 -0400
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-04 19:50 -0700
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 07:22 +0000
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-05 06:15 +0000
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 07:30 +0000
      Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-05 07:14 -0700
        Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 10:49 -0400
          Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-05 15:06 -0700
            Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 22:44 +0000
              Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-05 15:55 -0700
                Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-06 00:07 +0000
                Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-06 06:44 +0000
            Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-07 23:40 +0000
              Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-08 00:02 +0000
                Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-08 00:16 +0000
          Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-06 01:43 +0200
            Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-05 16:58 -0700
            Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-06 00:13 +0000
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-05 21:15 +1000
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. bitrex <user@example.net> - 2024-09-05 14:24 +0000
      Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 18:17 +0000
        Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-05 20:57 +0200
          Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-05 19:58 +0000
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2024-09-06 22:47 +1000
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2024-09-06 17:31 +0200
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-06 13:33 -0400
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2024-09-06 15:59 -0700
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-07 21:46 +0000
      Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2024-09-09 14:02 -0700
  Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-09 21:59 -0400
    Re: Drat. NTE is gone, and they took the last 5-GHz PNP with them. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-09 22:12 -0400

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