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Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload)

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Hi Ian,

On 6/20/24 23:27, Ian Jackson wrote:

> I think *usually* the git history is part of the source, but sometimes
> it isn't (and sometimes it's even harmful and must be discarded).
> Usually you wouldn't (and shouldn't) rewrite the history, but
> sometimes you should (and sometimes you must).

Over time I'd expect that to come up quite a few times, so we need to be 
organizationally prepared for that -- either have a history redaction 
team or expect maintainers to be able to do that.

I still have a hard time picturing how this is going to go into 
practical use over years, especially with rising numbers of users of 
such a system.

The technical aspect of doing uploads from git is the easy part, but we 
also need to bring people with various levels of existing git knowledge 
up to speed on packaging in a git-like environment with several 
different repository layouts that have subtle differences and pitfalls.

 From a didactic point of view, if I had the time to be a mentor, I'd 
teach "traditional" packaging first, and extend that with git recipes 
later on, once the basics are there, but obviously that is a non-starter 
for having people join team-maintained packages.

I don't see a good structured approach to teaching git-based packaging 
approaches first though, because these would require both marking parts 
of their existing git knowledge as inapplicable (because it would create 
a repository structure that doesn't fit the expected layout), and also 
teaching magic incantations that they have no mental model for yet, to 
interface with "legacy" systems.

That's why I think having a conceptual split between collaborative 
maintenance and the public archive makes sense, and abbreviating history 
in the archive limits the impact of redaction actions: the archive is 
redacted by ftpmaster, who are generally expected to know what they are 
doing, and getting the collaborative maintenance repository into a state 
that allows releases to be made without reuploading the offending blobs 
should be reasonably easy as well, because if the blob is not part of 
the current state, it will not be part of the upload.

Also, I think the usefulness of our collaborative maintenance history is 
overrated -- in those packages where I actually use salsa and git to 
collaborate, we also have a lot of "fix problem", "actually fix 
problem", "disable feature for release", "release", "revert 'disable 
feature for release'" commits that are an accurate audit trail, but less 
useful as documentation than a squashed history.

    Simon

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What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 13:00 +0200
  Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-19 19:10 +0200
    Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to  deploy tag2upload) Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2024-06-19 20:30 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-06-20 00:00 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to  deploy tag2upload) Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 00:40 +0200
        Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 11:40 +0200
        Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-20 16:30 +0200
          Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 18:20 +0200
        Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 16:40 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-06-22 19:30 +0200
    Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 16:10 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-20 16:20 +0200
          Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-06-21 01:40 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-06-20 17:00 +0200
  Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Aigars Mahinovs <aigarius@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 12:50 +0200
    Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-20 13:30 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Aigars Mahinovs <aigarius@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 13:40 +0200
    Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 17:10 +0200
      Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 17:40 +0200
        Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 18:00 +0200
          Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-06-20 20:30 +0200
          Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy  tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-21 11:30 +0200
        Re: What is the source code (was: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy tag2upload) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2024-06-21 11:20 +0200

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