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Re: FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support

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Hi Emmanuel,

FrankenGradle!  That's a great name!

I know it's unlikely they are going to do anything, but I thought there 
should at least be an up-to-date GitHub Issue for Gradle to look at and 
for a discussion to hopefully occur.

bitcoinj has franken-build-scripts that use a growing number of 
conditionals to ensure they run on the latest Gradle as well as 
FrankenGradle 4.4.x and Gradle 4.10.3 (which is the closest standard 
version that we can easily use on GitHub CI.)  The scripts have been 
difficult to maintain but they are currently working and they will 
suffice through the 0.17 release. They are also supporting JDK 21, so we 
are definitely OK for now.

We use Debian Docker images for our GitLab CI builds and for our 
reference build which can be run locally as well. Being Debian Free 
Software Guidelines compliant is important to us. We would like to 
eventually see the bitcoinj library, our "wallet-tool" command-line app, 
and perhaps even a GUI wallet be available as Debian packages.

Thinking longer-term, we have had brief discussions about switching to 
Maven, but haven't made any serious effort yet. We've been hoping that 
Gradle will see the light and/or you will make progress even without 
their support. But we'll switch to Gradle if necessary in the future.

Thanks gain for all your efforts!

-- Sean


On 9/26/23 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> Thank you for your support, I'm glad someone appreciates our 
> FrankenGradle ;)
>
> Gradle is difficult to upgrade in Debian for a variety of reasons. For 
> one thing it's a huge monolith and thus it's a bit all or nothing, if 
> one part is missing your are stuck. Maven in comparison is highly 
> modular and can be upgraded piece by piece. The major pain point 
> currently is the Kotlin DSL, I wish the core of Gradle would have 
> remained pure Java/Groovy. And then there is the non-free stuff like 
> the Gradle enterprise plugin that gets in the way.
>
> Addressing these issues in Gradle isn't a trivial task, and I doubt 
> the bootstrappability is compelling enough to motivate the Gradle 
> developers to work on it.
>
> If this is important for bitcoinj I would suggest switching to another 
> build tool, either Maven if you have a fairly standard project 
> structure, or Ant if you need the flexibility of an imperative build 
> system (and Ant is by far the easiest to bootstrap).
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
>
> Le 25/09/2023 à 22:17, Sean Gilligan a écrit :
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I appreciate the efforts of the Debian Java team and know that your 
>> job is not easy.
>>
>> I work on bitcoinj (Java) and we are (for better or worse) using 
>> Gradle for our builds. We are stuck supporting Gradle 4.4.x, when the 
>> latest version of Gradle 8.3 (or 8.4) is required to support JDK 21 
>> (if you're not using the Debian-patched Gradle, of course.)
>>
>> I had thought there was already an issue for this on the Gradle 
>> GitHub project, but today I couldn't find anything. So I created a 
>> new one:
>> https://github.com/gradle/gradle/issues/26516
>>
>> I thought I would share that with you for reference purposes. Or 
>> maybe someone might want to comment on the issue, especially if 
>> anyone from Gradle responds or asks questions.
>>
>> I'm hoping that priorities at Gradle may be changing now that 
>> supply-chain security has become a more visible issue in the 
>> industry. (Yes, I'll admit to being an optimist.)
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for your efforts. We do appreciate them.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> p.s. If you're interested in how we are dealing with this at 
>> bitcoinj, I created an issue there as well:
>> https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/issues/3287
>>
>

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FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support Sean Gilligan <sean@msgilligan.com> - 2023-09-25 22:20 +0200
  Re: FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2023-09-26 09:30 +0200
    Re: FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support Sean Gilligan <sean@msgilligan.com> - 2023-09-27 22:10 +0200
      Re: FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support Sean Gilligan <sean@msgilligan.com> - 2023-09-28 19:30 +0200

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