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4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found

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  4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-19 21:10 -0400
    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 21:24 -0400
    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-20 02:45 +0000
      Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-20 00:27 -0400
        Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-20 16:17 +0000
          Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-20 13:26 -0400
            Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-20 17:48 +0000
              Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-20 17:44 -0400
                Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-20 23:13 +0000
                  Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-20 20:01 -0400
                    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-21 01:46 +0000
                      Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-20 23:14 -0400
                        Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-21 04:55 +0000
                  Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-20 22:11 -0400
                    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-21 03:18 +0000
                      Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-21 13:55 -0400
                        Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-22 19:58 -0400
                          Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-05-23 14:11 +1200
                            Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-22 22:29 -0400
                              Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-26 07:58 -0400
                                Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-26 15:51 +0000
                                  Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-26 12:52 -0400
                                    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-26 17:34 +0000
                                    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-27 15:39 +0000
                                  Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2017-05-29 00:00 -0400
                                    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-29 19:03 +0000
        Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-22 06:40 +0000
    Re: 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-22 06:33 +0000

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#107070 — 4.8GB iNode file in Lost+Found

It was created Oct 4 at 2:35 AM and last modified 3 hours later.

That was about the time I upgraded to Sierra.  I hate the way Apple 
pushes upgrades. I want to be sure my file structure is okay and I'm 
backed up, but if I click NO, Apple takes it as YES.

IIRC, I squeezed in a backup while the update was downloading, then went 
to bed. When I returned, all seemed to have gone well.

Now it looks as if the upgrade hit a stumbling block. Could there be any 
harm in dumping the file (or the folder?) into the trash and emptying?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#107071

In article <ofo4r8$t6k$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns@nospam.com>
wrote:

> It was created Oct 4 at 2:35 AM and last modified 3 hours later.
> 
> That was about the time I upgraded to Sierra.  I hate the way Apple 
> pushes upgrades. I want to be sure my file structure is okay and I'm 
> backed up, but if I click NO, Apple takes it as YES.

no they don't. if you say no to an update or upgrade, apple takes it as
a no. 

apple does not force upgrades. they do sometimes nag to update (and for
good reason), but that is easily disabled, especially on a mac.

> IIRC, I squeezed in a backup while the update was downloading, then went 
> to bed. When I returned, all seemed to have gone well.

then you did say yes.

> Now it looks as if the upgrade hit a stumbling block. Could there be any 
> harm in dumping the file (or the folder?) into the trash and emptying?

what was the stumbling block? what are you dumping into the trash?

you mentioned lost+found in the subject. read this, which was posted
just yesterday:
<http://www.macworld.com/article/3195902/macs/did-a-mysterious-lost-foun
d-folder-just-appear-on-your-mac-it-could-mean-trouble.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107075

On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> It was created Oct 4 at 2:35 AM and last modified 3 hours later.

The existence of that file means your startup drive is experiencing
problems. You should probably run Disk Utility's First Aid function
ASAP.

To see what the iNode file contains, run the 'xar' command in a terminal
window like so:

xar -xf /lost+found/iNode4789234

> That was about the time I upgraded to Sierra.  I hate the way Apple
> pushes upgrades. I want to be sure my file structure is okay and I'm
> backed up, but if I click NO, Apple takes it as YES.

How so? I'm still running El Capitan on several machines and haven't
been forced to upgrade them. In fact Apple has *never* forced me to
upgrade.

> IIRC, I squeezed in a backup while the update was downloading, then
> went to bed. When I returned, all seemed to have gone well.
>
> Now it looks as if the upgrade hit a stumbling block.

Are you saying that just because the iNode file is there?

> Could there be any harm in dumping the file (or the folder?) into the
> trash and emptying?

Well yeah, you could lose whatever is in it...

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107077

On 5/19/17 10:45 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
>> It was created Oct 4 at 2:35 AM and last modified 3 hours later.
>
> The existence of that file means your startup drive is experiencing
> problems. You should probably run Disk Utility's First Aid function
> ASAP.

I'm sure I've done that several times since October, but I just did it 
again. Come to think of it, in the last year, my disk needed repair for 
the first time since Classic, IIRC.

>
> To see what the iNode file contains, run the 'xar' command in a terminal
> window like so:
>
> xar -xf /lost+found/iNode4789234

Would I be extracting a 5GB archive? How long would it take?  Would the 
output make sense to me?
>
>> That was about the time I upgraded to Sierra.  I hate the way Apple
>> pushes upgrades. I want to be sure my file structure is okay and I'm
>> backed up, but if I click NO, Apple takes it as YES.
>
> How so? I'm still running El Capitan on several machines and haven't
> been forced to upgrade them. In fact Apple has *never* forced me to
> upgrade.

Maybe Notifications wants me to OK an unspecified update. I go to App 
Store to see what it is. If it's a new OS, I'll definitely want to wait. 
I'll want to back up and check my disk.

Before starting a 5GB download, I'll want to pick a time when I don't 
want to download other big files and I don't expect to make or answer 
phone calls. (Downloading isn't supposed to interfere with VOIP, but it 
has happened to me.)

I'll tell it not to start the download, and it will ignore me. When it 
finishes, it will start the installation. At some point it will offer me 
the option not to restart.  At that point, I'll figure I might as well 
get it over with. Then my computer may be down for an hour.  I never 
know how long. That's why I'd rather pick the time.
>
>> IIRC, I squeezed in a backup while the update was downloading, then
>> went to bed. When I returned, all seemed to have gone well.
>>
>> Now it looks as if the upgrade hit a stumbling block.
>
> Are you saying that just because the iNode file is there?
>
>> Could there be any harm in dumping the file (or the folder?) into the
>> trash and emptying?
>
> Well yeah, you could lose whatever is in it...
>
If the OS or my personal files were missing 5 GB, I believe I would have 
noticed it in 7 months.

Now I remember. When Apple pushed a new OS at me, it was a bad time, but 
I saw it downloading anyway. I hit the button that said "cancel" or 
something similar.

It seems the great kidders at Apple had decided to have "cancel" mean 
"I'll take two, please!" The next time I looked, the App Store showed a 
dual download. I thought I got one stopped.  IIRC, it disappeared from 
the App Store window.

4.8GB sounds like the size of an OS download. I wonder if when I 
canceled the second download, it finished downloading anyway, 3 hours 
later, and Sierra, installed from the other download, marked it an iNode.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107079

On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 5/19/17 10:45 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> It was created Oct 4 at 2:35 AM and last modified 3 hours later.
>>
>> The existence of that file means your startup drive is experiencing
>> problems. You should probably run Disk Utility's First Aid function
>> ASAP.
>
> I'm sure I've done that several times since October, but I just did it
> again.

So you may have since repaired the damage, or not, depending on the
actual results of that operation which are displayed in the Show Details
area of the First Aid progress window (and are discarded once you quit
Disk Utility). I guess we'll never know.

> Come to think of it, in the last year, my disk needed repair for the
> first time since Classic, IIRC.

There you go.

>> To see what the iNode file contains, run the 'xar' command in a
>> terminal window like so:
>>
>> xar -xf /lost+found/iNode4789234
>
> Would I be extracting a 5GB archive?

Well, let's see... man xar outputs, among other things:

NAME

xar - eXtensible ARchiver

SYNOPSIS

xar -[ctx][v] ...

DESCRIPTION

The XAR project aims to provide an easily extensible archive
format. Important design decisions include an easily extensible XML
table of contents (TOC) for random access to archived files, storing the
TOC at the beginning of the archive to allow for  effi- cient  handling
of streamed archives, the ability to handle files of arbitrarily large
sizes, the ability to choose independent encodings for individual files
in the archive, the ability to store checksums for individual files in
both compressed and uncom- pressed form, and the ability to query the
table of content's rich meta-data.

FUNCTIONS
       One of the following options must be used:

       -c     Creates an archive

       -t     Lists the contents of an archive

       -x     Extracts an archive

So if you want to list the contents without extracting them, you'd
instead use:

xar -tf /lost+found/iNodeNNNNNNN

> How long would it take?

Listing would be quick. How long extraction would take would depend on
the speed of your disk and how much data there is, obviously. For 5GB on
a fairly recent hard drive, probably not very long.

> Would the output make sense to me?

That's pretty subjective. It would show you the names of files and
folders in the archive, which may or may not make sense to you.

>>> That was about the time I upgraded to Sierra.  I hate the way Apple
>>> pushes upgrades. I want to be sure my file structure is okay and I'm
>>> backed up, but if I click NO, Apple takes it as YES.
>>
>> How so? I'm still running El Capitan on several machines and haven't
>> been forced to upgrade them. In fact Apple has *never* forced me to
>> upgrade.
>
> Maybe Notifications wants me to OK an unspecified update.

Notifications can be easily dismissed:

"To dismiss an alert notification without interacting with it, use your
pointer to swipe the banner to the right."

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204079>

If you'd prefer not to see notifications about the Sierra upgrade, you
can disable it as well by opening App Store, clicking the Updates tab at
the top, right-clicking macOS Sierra in the listing, and choosing Hide
Update. 

> I go to App Store to see what it is. If it's a new OS, I'll definitely
> want to wait.  I'll want to back up and check my disk.

Then you should do so since nothing at all forces you to upgrade.

> Before starting a 5GB download, I'll want to pick a time when I don't
> want to download other big files and I don't expect to make or answer
> phone calls. (Downloading isn't supposed to interfere with VOIP, but
> it has happened to me.)

Perfectly reasonable.

> I'll tell it not to start the download, and it will ignore me.

The only way downloads will happen without your explicit consent is when
you have "Download newly available updates in the background" enabled in
System Preferences > App Store. If that behavior is undesirable to you,
you should disable that option.

> When it finishes, it will start the installation.

Not without your consent, no. The first thing that is displayed is a big
window with a Continue button at the bottom:

<https://i.imgur.com/lcTTQLR.png>

You have to actually click that button to begin installation. You can,
instead, refrain from clicking that button and quit the installer if you
wish. Apparently you chose to click the Continue button.

> At some point it will offer me the option not to restart.

Not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe you are referring to the
initial screen with the Continue button. 

> At that point, I'll figure I might as well get it over with. Then my
> computer may be down for an hour.  I never know how long. That's why
> I'd rather pick the time.

By clicking Continue, you picked the time.

>>> IIRC, I squeezed in a backup while the update was downloading, then
>>> went to bed. When I returned, all seemed to have gone well.
>>>
>>> Now it looks as if the upgrade hit a stumbling block.
>>
>> Are you saying that just because the iNode file is there?

*crickets chirping*

At any rate, the lost+found files indicate the disk volume is in need of
repair - not that a software update hit a stumbling block.

>>> Could there be any harm in dumping the file (or the folder?) into
>>> the trash and emptying?
>>
>> Well yeah, you could lose whatever is in it...
>>
> If the OS or my personal files were missing 5 GB, I believe I would
> have noticed it in 7 months.

Obviously *something* is missing from your file system. 

Do I care if you investigate? No. Do you care? Maybe. Maybe not. Only
you can know this. 

> Now I remember. When Apple pushed a new OS at me, it was a bad time,
> but I saw it downloading anyway. I hit the button that said "cancel"
> or something similar.

So you likely have "Download newly available updates in the background"
enabled in System Preferences > App Store. Clicking Cancel would have
canceled it - until the next time it tried again to update in the
background.

> It seems the great kidders at Apple had decided to have "cancel" mean
> "I'll take two, please!"

No, "Cancel" definitely means cancel. It's just that "Download newly
available updates in the background" means what it says as well. : )

> The next time I looked, the App Store showed a dual download. I
> thought I got one stopped.

That sounds confused.

> IIRC, it disappeared from the App Store window.

Once it's downloaded there's no reason to display it there.

> 4.8GB sounds like the size of an OS download. I wonder if when I
> canceled the second download, it finished downloading anyway, 3 hours
> later, and Sierra, installed from the other download, marked it an
> iNode.

Only you can answer that question (by running the xar tool to see what's
in the archive).

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107085

On 5/20/17 12:17 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>
> So if you want to list the contents without extracting them, you'd
> instead use:
>
> xar -tf /lost+found/iNodeNNNNNNN
>
Thank you!

Distribution
InstallOS.pkg
InstallOS.pkg/Bom
InstallOS.pkg/Payload
InstallOS.pkg/Scripts
InstallOS.pkg/PackageInfo
InstallOS.pkg/InstallESD.dmg
Resources
Resources/ar.lproj
Resources/ar.lproj/License.rtf
Resources/ar.lproj/Localizable.strings

The rest is repetitions of the last three lines for different languages. 
I'd call it a system installer.


>>
>> Maybe Notifications wants me to OK an unspecified update.
>
> Notifications can be easily dismissed:
>
> "To dismiss an alert notification without interacting with it, use your
> pointer to swipe the banner to the right."

Thanks, I'll try it next time. I think the time I got a dual download, 
I'd closed the notification window by telling it to come back later.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204079>
>
> If you'd prefer not to see notifications about the Sierra upgrade, you
> can disable it as well by opening App Store, clicking the Updates tab at
> the top, right-clicking macOS Sierra in the listing, and choosing Hide
> Update.
>
>> I go to App Store to see what it is. If it's a new OS, I'll definitely
>> want to wait.  I'll want to back up and check my disk.
>
> Then you should do so since nothing at all forces you to upgrade.
>
>> Before starting a 5GB download, I'll want to pick a time when I don't
>> want to download other big files and I don't expect to make or answer
>> phone calls. (Downloading isn't supposed to interfere with VOIP, but
>> it has happened to me.)
>
> Perfectly reasonable.
>
>> I'll tell it not to start the download, and it will ignore me.
>
> The only way downloads will happen without your explicit consent is when
> you have "Download newly available updates in the background" enabled in
> System Preferences > App Store. If that behavior is undesirable to you,
> you should disable that option.

It has always been disabled.
>
>> When it finishes, it will start the installation.
>
> Not without your consent, no. The first thing that is displayed is a big
> window with a Continue button at the bottom:
>
> <https://i.imgur.com/lcTTQLR.png>
>
> You have to actually click that button to begin installation. You can,
> instead, refrain from clicking that button and quit the installer if you
> wish. Apparently you chose to click the Continue button.

In all my updates and new system installations, I think I've seen that 
option only once. In that case, I'd found the new system at apple.com. 
I believe I downloaded it as a dmg.
>
>> At some point it will offer me the option not to restart.
>
> Not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe you are referring to the
> initial screen with the Continue button.
>
I believe anything from the app store continues from download to 
installation without asking. If at some point a restart is needed, then 
you get the option of waiting to restart.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#107086

J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 5/20/17 12:17 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> 
>> The only way downloads will happen without your explicit consent is when
>> you have "Download newly available updates in the background" enabled in
>> System Preferences > App Store. If that behavior is undesirable to you,
>> you should disable that option.
> 
> It has always been disabled.

Then you must have accidentally initiated the install.

>>> When it finishes, it will start the installation.
>> 
>> Not without your consent, no. The first thing that is displayed is a big
>> window with a Continue button at the bottom:
>> 
>> <https://i.imgur.com/lcTTQLR.png>
>> 
>> You have to actually click that button to begin installation. You can,
>> instead, refrain from clicking that button and quit the installer if you
>> wish. Apparently you chose to click the Continue button.
> 
> In all my updates and new system installations, I think I've seen that 
> option only once. 

Then you simply missed it. It's the way all recent system installs (and
major upgrades) work.

>>> At some point it will offer me the option not to restart.
>> 
>> Not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe you are referring to the
>> initial screen with the Continue button.
>> 
> I believe anything from the app store continues from download to 
> installation without asking. If at some point a restart is needed, then 
> you get the option of waiting to restart.

Not major system upgrades like Sierra, no. 

You're thinking of software *updates* which are distinctly different than
*upgrades* to major new versions of the operating system.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107087

On 5/20/17 1:48 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On 5/20/17 12:17 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> The only way downloads will happen without your explicit consent is when
>>> you have "Download newly available updates in the background" enabled in
>>> System Preferences > App Store. If that behavior is undesirable to you,
>>> you should disable that option.
>>
>> It has always been disabled.
>
> Then you must have accidentally initiated the install.

It strange that it should happen every time I open App Store to see what 
update the notification is about.


> You're thinking of software *updates* which are distinctly different than
> *upgrades* to major new versions of the operating system.
>
Upgrades!  That was the term I was trying to remember when I said, "New OS."

Now I remember upgrades work differently from updates. I don't like to 
install an upgrade until after the first update, and I've never had 
Notifications bug me. When I was ready, I found one upgrade at App 
Store, and it said I had no updates available. I went to apple.com for 
another upgrade.

If Notifications says I have an update, I'll open App Store to see what 
it is. Then, unless it's a system update, I can choose to download it 
later. Over and over, system updates have refused to take no for an answer.

The dual download happened when an update was being pushed on me, so 
maybe it was 10.11.6. The iNode archive took three hours to create, 
before dawn October 4. If Disk Utility had taken 3 hours, I would have 
noticed. It was 2 weeks after Sierra came out, so maybe I made an 
exception and installed it before its first update.

The Lost + Found folder was created 2 months later.

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#107088

On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 5/20/17 1:48 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/20/17 12:17 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only way downloads will happen without your explicit consent is when
>>>> you have "Download newly available updates in the background" enabled in
>>>> System Preferences > App Store. If that behavior is undesirable to you,
>>>> you should disable that option.
>>>
>>> It has always been disabled.
>>
>> Then you must have accidentally initiated the install.
>
> It strange that it should happen every time I open App Store to see what 
> update the notification is about.

If true, that would be strange. What does this single-line terminal
command show on your system?:

sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload

On my systems that have the System Preferences > App Store > Download
newly available updates in the background setting disabled, it shows
this output:

# sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
Password:
0

(0 means the setting is indeed turned off)

On all of the Macs I manage with the setting turned off, viewing the
Updates tab of the App Store window does *not* start downloading and
installing available updates. There is an "Update" button next to each
available update in the list; and if I do not explicitly click that
button (or the "Update All" button at the top of the list), nothing
happens. 

You may want to try toggling the System Preferences > App Store >
Download newly available updates in the background setting on and back
off. 

> If Notifications says I have an update, I'll open App Store to see what 
> it is. Then, unless it's a system update, I can choose to download it 
> later. Over and over, system updates have refused to take no for an answer.

That's not normal. Normally, there is an Update button next to each one,
and they do not start automatically. Something is apparently wrong with
your system setup.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107089

Question:

Under what circumstances/process would a file be recreated without its
original name?

Does this imply that the catalogue record was zapped, and whatever
utility ran to check the disk, found a record in the extents file which
was not pointed to by any record in the catalogue file?

Woudl this imply the deletion stopped midway, after having deleted the
catalogue record, but before deleting the extents record(s) and moving
those blocks to the free blocks file (forget its officioal name) ?

If the only way such iNode files are recreated is due to incomplete file
deletion (power failure at wrong time etc), wouldn't it be safe to state
that since the file was in the process of being deleted at the time of
failure, it would be safe to delete now?

At the time the file is recreated by I assume fsck or diskutil, is there
a check to esure that the blocks used by that file are not both in the
extents and free flocks files ?

Would the architecture of HFS allow a situation where file 1 has blocks
1-200 both in extents and free blocks, and when file 2 is created it is
told to use blocks 1-10 (overwriting first 10 blocks of file 1).

Can the extents file theoretically support blocks multiply allcated to
different files? (not hard links, but actual different files). Or would
the way the records are indexed prevent this under any/all circumstances?

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#107093

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Question:
> 
> Under what circumstances/process would a file be recreated without its
> original name?

Nobody said anything about recreating files without their original names.

> Does this imply that the catalogue record was zapped

Do your own research. Knock yourself out:

<http://bfy.tw/BuZm>

[aimless ramblings ignored]

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107095

On 2017-05-20 21:46, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
> Do your own research. Knock yourself out:
> 
> <http://bfy.tw/BuZm>


Your link points to an article that argues that MacOS is Unix. But the
issue here isn't unix, it is how HFS is structured and how a file can
get "lost" on the HFS system.

The article does not explain whether it is a unix utility's view of HFS
through the emulated layer which creates those inodeXXXX files, or if
this is done by Apple software with direct access to HFS.

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#107097

JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-05-20 21:46, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> 
>> Do your own research. Knock yourself out:
>> 
>> <http://bfy.tw/BuZm>
> 
> Your link points to an article 

Nope, it points to a web search with many different links to different
articles. You just apparently refuse to be bothered with things like
reading and comprehension.

> The article 

Try reading more than just one of the many hits in the search results. Try
hard. You can do it. Concentrate!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107094

On 5/20/17 7:13 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:

>>>>
>>>> It has always been disabled.
>>>
>>> Then you must have accidentally initiated the install.
>>
>> It strange that it should happen every time I open App Store to see what
>> update the notification is about.
>
> If true, that would be strange. What does this single-line terminal
> command show on your system?:
>
> sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
>
> On my systems that have the System Preferences > App Store > Download
> newly available updates in the background setting disabled, it shows
> this output:
>
> # sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
> Password:
> 0
>
Instead of Password: 0, mine shows Password: and a key icon.

> (0 means the setting is indeed turned off)
>
> On all of the Macs I manage with the setting turned off, viewing the
> Updates tab of the App Store window does *not* start downloading and
> installing available updates. There is an "Update" button next to each
> available update in the list; and if I do not explicitly click that
> button (or the "Update All" button at the top of the list), nothing
> happens.
>
> You may want to try toggling the System Preferences > App Store >
> Download newly available updates in the background setting on and back
> off.

I toggled. I don't know if anything has changed, but when I use Terminal 
to check the AutomaticDownload defaults, It still gives a key icon after 
Password:
>
>> If Notifications says I have an update, I'll open App Store to see what
>> it is. Then, unless it's a system update, I can choose to download it
>> later. Over and over, system updates have refused to take no for an answer.
>
> That's not normal. Normally, there is an Update button next to each one,
> and they do not start automatically. Something is apparently wrong with
> your system setup.
>
Except system updates, updates don't download until I want.

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#107096

J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 5/20/17 7:13 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2017-05-20, J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It has always been disabled.
>>>> 
>>>> Then you must have accidentally initiated the install.
>>> 
>>> It strange that it should happen every time I open App Store to see what
>>> update the notification is about.
>> 
>> If true, that would be strange. What does this single-line terminal
>> command show on your system?:
>> 
>> sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
>> 
>> On my systems that have the System Preferences > App Store > Download
>> newly available updates in the background setting disabled, it shows
>> this output:
>> 
>> # sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
>> Password:
>> 0
>> 
> Instead of Password: 0, mine shows Password: and a key icon.

You were supposed to enter the password to your admin account. Then it
would output the number which reflects the setting value.

Anyhow now that you've toggled the setting it's less valuable to know. I
was just wondering if the value would reflect what you saw in System
Preferences.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#107101

On 5/20/17 11:18 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>>> If true, that would be strange. What does this single-line terminal
>>> command show on your system?:
>>>
>>> sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
>>>
>>> On my systems that have the System Preferences > App Store > Download
>>> newly available updates in the background setting disabled, it shows
>>> this output:
>>>
>>> # sudo defaults read /Library/Preferences/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate AutomaticDownload
>>> Password:
>>> 0
>>>
>> Instead of Password: 0, mine shows Password: and a key icon.
>
> You were supposed to enter the password to your admin account. Then it
> would output the number which reflects the setting value.
>
> Anyhow now that you've toggled the setting it's less valuable to know. I
> was just wondering if the value would reflect what you saw in System
> Preferences.
>
Oops.... Well, it returns 0 now.

I haven't been aware of the installation of any update until I opened 
App Store. Then, third-party updates, iTunes updates, and security 
updates have behaved. It seems to be system updates that have been too 
aggressive.

I've read of somebody who stayed with Yosemite after El Capitan came 
out. He began getting notifications urging him to upgrade. At first, the 
notifications had button to decline.  Then he began getting 
notifications whose only button said to upgrade.

That seems to show Apple doesn't treat all customers the same, and they 
can be aggressive. The market segment that rejects system updates is 
probably a headache for technical support. I may be unusual in leaving 
the notification window open while I open App Store to check. To Apple, 
that may profile me as uncooperative, so their bot gives me a nudge by 
beginning the update. Generally, I've gone along with the interruption 
and potential disaster from not backing up and checking my disk. The 
time I tried to stop it, I got a dual download. It seems that's when an 
uncatalogued install archive ended up on my disk.

The next time I find that Notifications wants me to update my system, 
I'll grab a clipboard to note exactly what happens.

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#107131

On 5/21/17 1:55 PM, J Burns wrote:

>
> The next time I find that Notifications wants me to update my system,
> I'll grab a clipboard to note exactly what happens.

When I happened to click the apple on the menu bar, I saw App Store had 
an update. I checked and it's 10.12.5. I wasn't ready, and there was no 
download.

Normally, I find out there's a system update when a notification says 
there's an unspecified update. I'm ready now, but I'd like to see what 
happens if I open App Store with the notification window open.

I'd assumed notifications were sent as soon as an update was available. 
  How long does Apple wait?

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#107139

J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:

> On 5/21/17 1:55 PM, J Burns wrote:
> 
> >
> > The next time I find that Notifications wants me to update my system,
> > I'll grab a clipboard to note exactly what happens.
> 
> When I happened to click the apple on the menu bar, I saw App Store had
> an update. I checked and it's 10.12.5. I wasn't ready, and there was no
> download.
> 
> Normally, I find out there's a system update when a notification says
> there's an unspecified update. I'm ready now, but I'd like to see what
> happens if I open App Store with the notification window open.
> 
> I'd assumed notifications were sent as soon as an update was available.
>   How long does Apple wait?

Software Update notifications are not pushed by Apple servers.

Assuming you haven't disabled automatic update checks, your Mac
periodically checks for updates, perhaps once a day. If there is an
update available, a notification appears, and Software Update is counted
as a pending update in the App Store icon badge and in the Apple menu.

The notification may only provide a limited set of options as buttons,
but if you click the body of the notification text, it dismisses the
notification, opens App Store, shows the Updates tab and from there you
can choose what to do (or just close App Store again if you don't care
right now).

The somewhat related notification which tells you about a major new OS
version you aren't running yet is also done by your computer
periodically checking with Apple's servers to see if there are any
relevant notices to display. It behaves similarly - click the body of
the notification to launch App Store and show the page for the new OS.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#107140

On 5/22/17 10:11 PM, David Empson wrote:
> J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/21/17 1:55 PM, J Burns wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The next time I find that Notifications wants me to update my system,
>>> I'll grab a clipboard to note exactly what happens.
>>
>> When I happened to click the apple on the menu bar, I saw App Store had
>> an update. I checked and it's 10.12.5. I wasn't ready, and there was no
>> download.
>>
>> Normally, I find out there's a system update when a notification says
>> there's an unspecified update. I'm ready now, but I'd like to see what
>> happens if I open App Store with the notification window open.
>>
>> I'd assumed notifications were sent as soon as an update was available.
>>    How long does Apple wait?
>
> Software Update notifications are not pushed by Apple servers.
>
> Assuming you haven't disabled automatic update checks, your Mac
> periodically checks for updates, perhaps once a day. If there is an
> update available, a notification appears, and Software Update is counted
> as a pending update in the App Store icon badge and in the Apple menu.
>
> The notification may only provide a limited set of options as buttons,
> but if you click the body of the notification text, it dismisses the
> notification, opens App Store, shows the Updates tab and from there you
> can choose what to do (or just close App Store again if you don't care
> right now).
>
> The somewhat related notification which tells you about a major new OS
> version you aren't running yet is also done by your computer
> periodically checking with Apple's servers to see if there are any
> relevant notices to display. It behaves similarly - click the body of
> the notification to launch App Store and show the page for the new OS.
>
Thanks, David!  Now I know I can close the notification window to open 
App Store. This next time, though, I want to see what happens if I leave 
the notification window open, as before.

I thought somewhere I'd read that my system checked weekly, but in 
System Preferences, I don't see it under Notifications or App Store.

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#107208

On 5/22/17 10:29 PM, J Burns wrote:
> On 5/22/17 10:11 PM, David Empson wrote:

>>
> Thanks, David!  Now I know I can close the notification window to open
> App Store. This next time, though, I want to see what happens if I leave
> the notification window open, as before.
>
> I thought somewhere I'd read that my system checked weekly, but in
> System Preferences, I don't see it under Notifications or App Store.

Any time expect to be gone more than 5 minutes, and I'm not downloading, 
I select Sleep from the Apple menu. That's how I spotted an update. I 
opened App Store and it was 10.12.5.

I waited for the Notification so I could write everything down if 
Apple's bot jumped the gun again. I waited three days, but no 
Notification came.

I went to App Store and clicked Update. It asked if I really wanted to 
begin the download. I've never before had such a courteous system update!

In the Apple Menu, update flags are conspicuous, but, as often as I pull 
down the menu, I've never before become aware of an update that way. It 
has always been from getting a Notification or by having App Store see 
if there is anything. That leads me to believe Notifications informs me 
the minute App Store finds an update.

I wonder why I didn't see a Notification this time.  I haven't turned 
anything off.

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