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? 1Password

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  ? 1Password William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> - 2016-10-21 12:30 -0700
    Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-21 21:05 +0000
      Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-22 05:10 +0000
        Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 16:06 +0000
          Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-22 19:48 +0000
            Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 20:04 +0000
    Re: ? 1Password gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-21 15:12 -0700
    Re: ? 1Password glawrie <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> - 2016-10-22 15:02 +0100
      Re: ? 1Password Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-10-22 15:50 +0000
        Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 13:53 -0400
          Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 17:58 +0000
            Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 14:18 -0400
              Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 18:21 +0000
                Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 14:31 -0400
                  Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 14:54 -0400
                  Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 19:10 +0000
                    Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 15:18 -0400
                      Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 20:03 +0000
                        Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 16:16 -0400
                          Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 20:28 +0000
                            Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 16:37 -0400
                              Re: ? 1Password Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-22 20:51 +0000
                                Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 16:59 -0400
                              Re: ? 1Password "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-22 17:13 -0500
                                Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-23 10:53 -0400
        Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-22 19:50 +0000
    Re: ? 1Password heron stone <heron@invalid.invalid> - 2016-10-22 08:38 -0700
      Re: ? 1Password Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2016-10-22 10:48 -0500
        Re: ? 1Password nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-22 12:19 -0400
          Re: ? 1Password Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2016-10-22 11:45 -0500
          Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 14:11 -0400
            Re: ? 1Password nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-22 15:37 -0400
              Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 15:59 -0400
          Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-22 19:56 +0000
    Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 13:32 -0400
      Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-22 19:59 +0000
        Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-22 16:11 -0400
          Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-23 15:59 +0000
            Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-23 12:28 -0400
              Re: ? 1Password nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-23 13:12 -0400
                Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-23 14:06 -0400
                  Re: ? 1Password Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-23 21:21 +0000
                    Re: ? 1Password Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-23 17:57 -0400
    Re: ? 1Password dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2016-10-23 07:53 +0100

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#95884 — ? 1Password

are there any dangers to using 1Password?

i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it

what are the pluses and minuses of using it?

thanks


bill

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#95886

On 2016-10-21, William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> are there any dangers to using 1Password?
>
> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it

Personally I don't need software and services like 1Password and
LastPass because Apple's iCloud Keychain stores credentials securely and
syncs them to all of my devices without any additional software:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204085>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95907

In message <e6ve8kFhn7lU3@mid.individual.net> 
  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2016-10-21, William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> are there any dangers to using 1Password?
>>
>> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
>> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it

> Personally I don't need software and services like 1Password and
> LastPass because Apple's iCloud Keychain stores credentials securely and
> syncs them to all of my devices without any additional software:

It's a pain in the ass to find out what a password is that is stored in
your iCloud Keychain.

For example, I install the Dropbox app on my phone. How do I login?

I go to a Mac. I open up the keychain access app. I fidn the dropbox
password. I then type it in to the app on the phone manually. Or I text
it to myself. Or I copy it to the clipboard and hope the clipboard sync
works if I'm on iOS 10 and macOS Sierra.

It's only very slightly less convenient when I install the app on my
Mac.

Also, 1Password stores more than just web passwords. I have product
keys, secure notes, credit cards WITH CVVs, HTTP Auth passwords, ftp
passwords (in theory), ssh keys and passwords, copies of my Driver's
License and Passports for the family, and bank account information.

But the real shortcoming in iCloud keychain is that it does not store
"security questions" (the Internet's stupidest idea ever for security,
but still). Since I treat these fields as additional random passwords
instead of using trivially guessable 'real' answers, iCloud keychain is
a convenient addon to 1Password.

for example, one security question I had for my iCloud account before
two-factor authentication was "City parents: 871eqwhv1xMpk" (What city did
your parents meet in?)

-- 
Space Directive 723: Terraformers are expressly forbidden from
recreating Swindon.

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#95913

On 2016-10-22, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <e6ve8kFhn7lU3@mid.individual.net> 
>   Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-21, William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> are there any dangers to using 1Password?
>>>
>>> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
>>> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it
>
>> Personally I don't need software and services like 1Password and
>> LastPass because Apple's iCloud Keychain stores credentials securely and
>> syncs them to all of my devices without any additional software:
>
> It's a pain in the ass to find out what a password is that is stored in
> your iCloud Keychain.
>
> For example, I install the Dropbox app on my phone. How do I login?
>
> I go to a Mac. I open up the keychain access app. I fidn the dropbox
> password. I then type it in to the app on the phone manually. Or I text
> it to myself. Or I copy it to the clipboard and hope the clipboard sync
> works if I'm on iOS 10 and macOS Sierra.
>
> It's only very slightly less convenient when I install the app on my
> Mac.

You're doing it wrong. If I need to know what my Dropbox credentials are
on my iOS device, I go to Settings > Safari > Passwords and search for
"dropbox", then view the password. I can copy it to my clipboard from
there and paste it into any text field. Simple and fast.

> Also, 1Password stores more than just web passwords. I have product
> keys, secure notes, credit cards WITH CVVs, HTTP Auth passwords, ftp
> passwords (in theory), ssh keys and passwords, copies of my Driver's
> License and Passports for the family, and bank account information.

iCloud keychain lets you store secure notes as well. 

> But the real shortcoming in iCloud keychain is that it does not store
> "security questions" (the Internet's stupidest idea ever for security,
> but still). Since I treat these fields as additional random passwords
> instead of using trivially guessable 'real' answers, iCloud keychain is
> a convenient addon to 1Password.

Easily stored in a note.

I think it's fine you like 1Password, because competition is good. I
just don't see a need for it myself since iCloud Keychain does all I
need without any additional software.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95929

In message <e71h4iF1rgsU1@mid.individual.net> 
  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <e6ve8kFhn7lU3@mid.individual.net> 
>>   Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-21, William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> are there any dangers to using 1Password?
>>>>
>>>> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
>>>> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it
>>
>>> Personally I don't need software and services like 1Password and
>>> LastPass because Apple's iCloud Keychain stores credentials securely and
>>> syncs them to all of my devices without any additional software:
>>
>> It's a pain in the ass to find out what a password is that is stored in
>> your iCloud Keychain.
>>
>> For example, I install the Dropbox app on my phone. How do I login?
>>
>> I go to a Mac. I open up the keychain access app. I fidn the dropbox
>> password. I then type it in to the app on the phone manually. Or I text
>> it to myself. Or I copy it to the clipboard and hope the clipboard sync
>> works if I'm on iOS 10 and macOS Sierra.
>>
>> It's only very slightly less convenient when I install the app on my
>> Mac.

> You're doing it wrong. If I need to know what my Dropbox credentials are
> on my iOS device, I go to Settings > Safari > Passwords and search for
> "dropbox", then view the password. I can copy it to my clipboard from
> there and paste it into any text field. Simple and fast.

Learn something new every day. I had not idea that was there.

>> Also, 1Password stores more than just web passwords. I have product
>> keys, secure notes, credit cards WITH CVVs, HTTP Auth passwords, ftp
>> passwords (in theory), ssh keys and passwords, copies of my Driver's
>> License and Passports for the family, and bank account information.

> iCloud keychain lets you store secure notes as well. 

on iOS?



-- 
Love seekest only self to please, To bind another to its delight Joys in
another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's despite!

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#95935

On 2016-10-22, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <e71h4iF1rgsU1@mid.individual.net> 
>   Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <e6ve8kFhn7lU3@mid.individual.net> 
>>>   Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-10-21, William Hanna <bill@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> are there any dangers to using 1Password?
>>>>>
>>>>> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
>>>>> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it
>>>
>>>> Personally I don't need software and services like 1Password and
>>>> LastPass because Apple's iCloud Keychain stores credentials securely and
>>>> syncs them to all of my devices without any additional software:
>>>
>>> It's a pain in the ass to find out what a password is that is stored in
>>> your iCloud Keychain.
>>>
>>> For example, I install the Dropbox app on my phone. How do I login?
>>>
>>> I go to a Mac. I open up the keychain access app. I fidn the dropbox
>>> password. I then type it in to the app on the phone manually. Or I text
>>> it to myself. Or I copy it to the clipboard and hope the clipboard sync
>>> works if I'm on iOS 10 and macOS Sierra.
>>>
>>> It's only very slightly less convenient when I install the app on my
>>> Mac.
>
>> You're doing it wrong. If I need to know what my Dropbox credentials are
>> on my iOS device, I go to Settings > Safari > Passwords and search for
>> "dropbox", then view the password. I can copy it to my clipboard from
>> there and paste it into any text field. Simple and fast.
>
> Learn something new every day. I had not idea that was there.
>
>>> Also, 1Password stores more than just web passwords. I have product
>>> keys, secure notes, credit cards WITH CVVs, HTTP Auth passwords, ftp
>>> passwords (in theory), ssh keys and passwords, copies of my Driver's
>>> License and Passports for the family, and bank account information.
>
>> iCloud keychain lets you store secure notes as well. 
>
> on iOS?

I haven't bothered to find out where iOS puts them, but they are
definitely there on all my Macs.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95889

On 2016-10-21 19:30:40 +0000, William Hanna said:

> are there any dangers to using 1Password?

None that I've heard of.

> i've been considering getting it, but things aren't that bad right now
> so i thought i'd get some other perspectives on it

If they're not that bad, don't bother.

> what are the pluses and minuses of using it?

It let's you create and store ridiculously complex passwords that are 
much more difficult to crack.  Though seemingly most "cracked 
passwords" were simply bought off the net somewhere.

I like it because I have one- (or two-) click access to logins, 
credit-card info, my wife's various logins that we share, as well as 
having all of these easily accessed on my mobile phone as well.  It 
syncs all this without my involvement.

For use in the mobile world it's nice because I can open 1Password, 
select a site, and it goes to that site and completely logs me in, so I 
do zero tapping to get somewhere.

For software installed on my Mac, I have links in 1Password where it 
stashes the year's serial number and my "name" as that company knows it 
as well as other pertinent data if I want to edit it (programmer's name 
and personal information--always good to suck up to cserve folk.)

I'm happy with it.

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#95909

On 2016-10-21 19:30:40 +0000, William Hanna said:

> what are the pluses and minuses of using it?

It is perhaps less useful now than it was - most browsers will keep 
track of passwords now, as will iCloud.  But there are some pluses.

Having a single place that is easy to get to is handy, as is the 
ability to have just one list across different browsers / devices.

There are a couple of other things about 1Password that I find useful.

The first is the ability to store other information beyond passwords - 
so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes' that are very 
handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and the like - not only 
are they held fairly securely, they too are available across devices / 
browsers etc.  Which is I find quite helpful.

The second is the ability to embed Google Authentication setups within 
the password page.  Quite a few of the major sites now use this system 
as a two-factor authentication system - so you log in with username and 
password, and then enter a six-digit number from the Google app that is 
somehow 'keyed' to the particular site / account.  1Password has had 
for a while the ability to set up this kind of authentication 'within' 
a saved password page - so instead of having to find / open / mess with 
the Google Authenticate app, you simply go to the same place you would 
to get the password and there is a constantly updating appropriately 
keyed six-digit code there too should the site ask for it.  It works 
really well, and is very handy.  Plus - the numbers appear across 
devices too, so all you need is access to 1Password rather than having 
to have access to the device.  Very clever.

Minuses?  Your browser's own password remembering system (if turned on) 
will 'compete' with 1Password - if they get out of sync (e.g. after a 
password update on a site) then it can be confusing to work out which 
one is correct etc, and so really you need to turn off the browser 
specific systems.  The other is cost - the browser / keychain systems 
are 'free' and work pretty well for password storage: I'm OK as I've 
already paid for it before there were viable alternatives, but if you 
have to pay now for something that you can get done for free 
otherways...

HTH

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#95912

For your reference, records indicate that 
glawrie <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:

> Having a single place that is easy to get to is handy, as is the 
> ability to have just one list across different browsers / devices.

As handy as that might be, I always worry about that being a single point of attack.  I’ll take a local sync over a “cloud” sync any day.

> The first is the ability to store other information beyond passwords - 
> so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes' that are very 
> handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and the like - not only 
> are they held fairly securely, they too are available across devices / 
> browsers etc.  Which is I find quite helpful.

This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in 
Keychain Access.

> Plus - the numbers appear across 
> devices too, so all you need is access to 1Password rather than having 
> to have access to the device.  Very clever.

And very undermining of the “something you have” second factor.  
People need to stop engaging in security theater.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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#95918

On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>
>> Having a single place that is easy to get to is handy, as is the
>> ability to have just one list across different browsers / devices.
>
> As handy as that might be, I always worry about that being a single
> point of attack.  I’ll take a local sync over a “cloud” sync any
> day.

The 1Password password itself has to be non-trivial and not written down 
anywhere.  The underlying scheme is very securely designed:
https://support.1password.com/encryption/

Once could post the file publicly sure that it can't reasonably be 
broken into.

>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>> helpful.
>
> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
> Keychain Access.

1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and 
pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has 
expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).

Some sites don't work well with 1 Password and copy/paste is required -
not many though.  Occasionally a site won't even allow a paste and a 
manual copying is needed.  Tedious.

So I only need a couple keystone passwords in Notes - (eg: Dropbox 
password, access code to my phone, etc. - but not 1Password). 
Cryptically identified and slightly changed mind you.

>
>> Plus - the numbers appear across devices too, so all you need is
>> access to 1Password rather than having to have access to the
>> device.  Very clever.
>
> And very undermining of the “something you have” second factor.
> People need to stop engaging in security theater.

They need to stop using weak passwords "for convenience" too.  And need
to change them from time to time - although with 25 char passwords that
look like ";tPAwCsxoNAfzC[d7QU,23MBW" changing passwords is probably not
needed too often and may create its own risks.  1Password makes the use 
of such passwords convenient.

I had a Yahoo account since they offered e-mail.  Used that as a backup 
- esp. while traveling.  Cancelled as the recent "2014" emerged.  Nearly 
19 years.  (Yes, my password changed from time to time).

-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95919

On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>
>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>> helpful.
>>
>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>> Keychain Access.
>
> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and 
> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has 
> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).

Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
are automatically filled in once you load the page.

> Some sites don't work well with 1 Password and copy/paste is required -
> not many though.  Occasionally a site won't even allow a paste and a 
> manual copying is needed.  Tedious.

Some web sites go out of their way to try to prevent credential fields
from being saved or filled in. Utterly stupid of them to do so as it
only makes the problem worse for end users.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95921

On 2016-10-22 13:58, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>>> helpful.
>>>
>>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>>> Keychain Access.
>>
>> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and
>> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has
>> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).
>
> Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
> are automatically filled in once you load the page.

Which is great except I don't like Safari very much.

>
>> Some sites don't work well with 1 Password and copy/paste is required -
>> not many though.  Occasionally a site won't even allow a paste and a
>> manual copying is needed.  Tedious.
>
> Some web sites go out of their way to try to prevent credential fields
> from being saved or filled in. Utterly stupid of them to do so as it
> only makes the problem worse for end users.

Yep.  I don't recall what site but they replied to my plea with "I get 
you, my colleagues get you - but the security manager is set in his 
ways."  I asked for his e-mail but didn't get it.

-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95922

On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 13:58, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>>>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>
>>>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>>>> Keychain Access.
>>>
>>> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and
>>> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has
>>> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).
>>
>> Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
>> are automatically filled in once you load the page.
>
> Which is great except I don't like Safari very much.

I like Safari. It's good to have alternatives though. Without
competition, I doubt Safari and iCloud Keychain would be as good as they
are. : )

>>> Some sites don't work well with 1 Password and copy/paste is required -
>>> not many though.  Occasionally a site won't even allow a paste and a
>>> manual copying is needed.  Tedious.
>>
>> Some web sites go out of their way to try to prevent credential fields
>> from being saved or filled in. Utterly stupid of them to do so as it
>> only makes the problem worse for end users.
>
> Yep.  I don't recall what site but they replied to my plea with "I get 
> you, my colleagues get you - but the security manager is set in his 
> ways."  I asked for his e-mail but didn't get it.

Silly people...

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95923

On 2016-10-22 14:21, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22 13:58, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>>>>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>>>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>>>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>>>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>>>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>>>>> Keychain Access.
>>>>
>>>> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and
>>>> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has
>>>> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).
>>>
>>> Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
>>> are automatically filled in once you load the page.
>>
>> Which is great except I don't like Safari very much.
>
> I like Safari. It's good to have alternatives though. Without
> competition, I doubt Safari and iCloud Keychain would be as good as they
> are. : )

Perhaps.  What I don't get is Apple flattening the look of everything to 
the point that they are visually less easy to use.

- Safari: doesn't support using favicons in the bookmarks bar - that 
alone would hall me over.

- Finder: used to be able to "color" folder shortcuts in the sidebar. 
Not any more.  Indeed I saw mention that some app writer put out a tool 
to make it possible.  Apple "replied" by disabling such abilities.

At some point we have to say, C'mon Ive it's MY COMPUTER.

>>>> Some sites don't work well with 1 Password and copy/paste is required -
>>>> not many though.  Occasionally a site won't even allow a paste and a
>>>> manual copying is needed.  Tedious.
>>>
>>> Some web sites go out of their way to try to prevent credential fields
>>> from being saved or filled in. Utterly stupid of them to do so as it
>>> only makes the problem worse for end users.
>>
>> Yep.  I don't recall what site but they replied to my plea with "I get
>> you, my colleagues get you - but the security manager is set in his
>> ways."  I asked for his e-mail but didn't get it.
>
> Silly people...
>


-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95925

On 2016-10-22 14:31, Alan Browne wrote:

> - Safari: doesn't support using favicons in the bookmarks bar - that
> alone would hall me over.

               haul   <blush>


-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95926

On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 14:21, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-22 13:58, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>>>>>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>>>>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>>>>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>>>>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>>>>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>>>>>> Keychain Access.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and
>>>>> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has
>>>>> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).
>>>>
>>>> Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
>>>> are automatically filled in once you load the page.
>>>
>>> Which is great except I don't like Safari very much.
>>
>> I like Safari. It's good to have alternatives though. Without
>> competition, I doubt Safari and iCloud Keychain would be as good as they
>> are. : )
>
> Perhaps.  What I don't get is Apple flattening the look of everything to 
> the point that they are visually less easy to use.
>
> - Safari: doesn't support using favicons in the bookmarks bar - that 
> alone would hall me over.

...which seems silly to me. It's just not a big deal.

> - Finder: used to be able to "color" folder shortcuts in the sidebar. 
> Not any more.

Also not a big deal.

> At some point we have to say, C'mon Ive it's MY COMPUTER.

I've been around Macs since they were first released, and have seen the
user interface change drastically through the years. Changes to the look
of the user interface don't prevent me from getting anything done. Such
minor changes are fairly inconsequential to me.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95927

On 2016-10-22 15:10, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22 14:21, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2016-10-22 13:58, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2016-10-22 11:50, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that glawrie
>>>>>>> <gavin.lawrie@2gc.eu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first is the ability to store other information beyond
>>>>>>>> passwords - so things like credit card numbers, and 'secure notes'
>>>>>>>> that are very handy for keeping track of 'security questions' and
>>>>>>>> the like - not only are they held fairly securely, they too are
>>>>>>>> available across devices / browsers etc.  Which is I find quite
>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is also easily done on the Mac by creating a Secure Note in
>>>>>>> Keychain Access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1Password in browsers goes for a lot of convenience.  eg: no copying and
>>>>>> pasting.  Just CMD-\ and the field is filled (or if the 1P session has
>>>>>> expired, then 1 password to open it again and fill the field).
>>>>>
>>>>> Same goes for iCloud Keychain and Safari. Typically the name and password
>>>>> are automatically filled in once you load the page.
>>>>
>>>> Which is great except I don't like Safari very much.
>>>
>>> I like Safari. It's good to have alternatives though. Without
>>> competition, I doubt Safari and iCloud Keychain would be as good as they
>>> are. : )
>>
>> Perhaps.  What I don't get is Apple flattening the look of everything to
>> the point that they are visually less easy to use.
>>
>> - Safari: doesn't support using favicons in the bookmarks bar - that
>> alone would hall me over.
>
> ...which seems silly to me. It's just not a big deal.

It is to me.  1. I locate the bookmarks I want quicker and 2. more fit 
on the bar as almost all are just the favicon - no text.  Colour goes a 
long way visually where grey text is always grey text.

>
>> - Finder: used to be able to "color" folder shortcuts in the sidebar.
>> Not any more.
>
> Also not a big deal.

To you no.  To me yes.  Colour is quickly located.

>
>> At some point we have to say, C'mon Ive it's MY COMPUTER.
>
> I've been around Macs since they were first released, and have seen the
> user interface change drastically through the years. Changes to the look
> of the user interface don't prevent me from getting anything done. Such
> minor changes are fairly inconsequential to me.

Changes I don't mind.  But mindless changes (removing colour from 
sidebar titles or icons) is plain idiocy for the sake of bragging on 
simplicity.

-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95934

On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 15:10, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>> I've been around Macs since they were first released, and have seen the
>> user interface change drastically through the years. Changes to the look
>> of the user interface don't prevent me from getting anything done. Such
>> minor changes are fairly inconsequential to me.
>
> Changes I don't mind.  But mindless changes (removing colour from 
> sidebar titles or icons)

I haven't seen any indication that change was done "mindlessly". While
the color of the icons in the side bar are now uniform (something I
actually appreciate), the icon *shapes* haven't changed, and neither
have the side bar item *names*. So finding things is utterly simple for
me, just as it has always been.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95937

On 2016-10-22 16:03, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22 15:10, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been around Macs since they were first released, and have seen the
>>> user interface change drastically through the years. Changes to the look
>>> of the user interface don't prevent me from getting anything done. Such
>>> minor changes are fairly inconsequential to me.
>>
>> Changes I don't mind.  But mindless changes (removing colour from
>> sidebar titles or icons)
>
> I haven't seen any indication that change was done "mindlessly". While
> the color of the icons in the side bar are now uniform (something I
> actually appreciate), the icon *shapes* haven't changed, and neither
> have the side bar item *names*. So finding things is utterly simple for
> me, just as it has always been.

It's rather mindless to assume that nobody is using, enjoying, perhaps 
even needing an available option and so arbitrarily remove it.  Much 
more utterly simple for me to find things that have colored labels or 
icons.


-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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#95938

On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-22 16:03, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-22, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-22 15:10, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been around Macs since they were first released, and have seen the
>>>> user interface change drastically through the years. Changes to the look
>>>> of the user interface don't prevent me from getting anything done. Such
>>>> minor changes are fairly inconsequential to me.
>>>
>>> Changes I don't mind.  But mindless changes (removing colour from
>>> sidebar titles or icons)
>>
>> I haven't seen any indication that change was done "mindlessly". While
>> the color of the icons in the side bar are now uniform (something I
>> actually appreciate), the icon *shapes* haven't changed, and neither
>> have the side bar item *names*. So finding things is utterly simple for
>> me, just as it has always been.
>
> It's rather mindless to assume that nobody is using, enjoying, perhaps 
> even needing an available option and so arbitrarily remove it.

I haven't seen any indication that color was removed because Apple
"assumed nobody was using it". More likely they realized color wasn't
crucial to finding things in the sidebar, and removing color gave a more
uniform appearance which many users would appreciate (I certainly do).
And again, since the icon shapes and item names haven't changed, it's
just not the big deal you are making of it. To me, usability wasn't
impacted in any significant way. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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