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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #83910 > unrolled thread
| Started by | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-10-22 04:01 -0400 |
| Last post | 2015-10-22 13:08 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 89 — 16 participants |
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App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-22 04:01 -0400
Re: App]le Maps jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-10-22 21:04 +1300
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-22 08:48 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 10:10 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-22 16:46 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-22 18:19 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-22 18:05 -0400
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-22 18:50 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-22 19:00 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-23 06:51 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-23 14:15 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-23 14:31 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-23 22:41 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:27 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-10-22 19:39 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-22 23:54 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-23 14:39 -0400
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-23 14:47 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-23 18:52 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:18 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-24 14:59 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:17 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-26 06:22 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 17:04 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-26 21:17 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 19:22 -0400
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-23 17:56 -0400
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-23 18:05 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:24 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 16:21 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-24 18:23 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 19:21 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:18 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-25 16:51 +0000
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-24 17:37 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-23 22:14 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-23 22:45 +0000
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-23 19:50 -0400
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-23 20:21 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 01:41 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:42 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 16:26 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:19 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-24 03:06 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:32 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-10-23 21:32 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:17 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-24 14:57 +0000
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-24 13:46 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-24 18:12 +0000
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-24 13:45 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-10-24 17:57 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:14 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 16:21 +0000
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-24 17:37 -0400
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-24 20:55 -0400
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-24 21:05 -0400
Re: App]le Maps dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-10-25 16:57 +1300
Re: App]le Maps dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-10-25 16:48 +1100
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:25 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-10-25 15:00 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-26 06:19 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Király <ggrandish@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 16:39 -0700
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-23 18:50 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-24 10:18 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2015-10-24 12:09 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-10-24 13:27 -0400
Re: App]le Maps John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-10-24 10:40 -0700
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 19:20 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:21 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-24 16:21 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 09:23 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-25 16:51 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-25 18:24 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-25 22:55 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 17:03 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-26 21:59 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 18:12 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-26 22:20 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 18:27 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-26 22:38 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-26 18:53 -0400
Re: App]le Maps Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-27 01:26 +0000
Re: App]le Maps Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 08:53 -0700
Re: App]le Maps Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 16:51 -0700
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-23 17:55 -0400
Re: App]le Maps me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-10-22 13:12 +0000
Re: App]le Maps nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-22 11:28 -0400
Re: App]le Maps JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-22 13:08 -0400
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 10:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <QaKdnQj9vJZQBbbLnZ2dnUU7-LednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84069 |
On 2015-10-23 20:21, nospam wrote: > In article <562ac7b1$0$5903$b1db1813$19ace300@news.astraweb.com>, JF > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > >> >>> We know for a FACT (you may need to look that word up) that Google did >>> not allow turn-by-turn directions in iOS. >> >> We only know for a FACT that the existing Google Maps application did >> not provide turn by turn. > > we also know for a fact that google prohibited turn by turn for anyone > using google maps. > >> We know for a FACT that instead of striking a deal with Google to make >> it happen, Apple decided to build its own app and mapping database. >> >> We have no factual information on what really happened during >> negotiations between Apple and Google about maps. > > true, but it's not hard to figure out what happened. > >>> Most iOS users use Apple Maps. >> >> On what basis do you proclaim that ? > > because it's already installed and the default app for map urls. > > for a user to use google maps, they need to download a separate app and > then explicitly run it. some do, but most do not. > >> I can just as easily state that most IOS users have moved the Apple Maps >> app to the "useless" folder on the very last page where most Apple users >> put those apps we're not allowed to delete. > > except that's not based in reality. > > <http://fortune.com/2015/06/16/apple-google-maps-ios/> > At WWDC last week Apple announced that it receives 5 billion requests > per week for its mapping services and that Apple Maps is used 3.5 > times more frequently than ³the next leading maps app²‹i.e. Google > Maps. Apple stated. Right. How do they know how often Google gets the Map data request?
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 16:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <d91poqF3phuU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #84096 |
Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2015-10-23 20:21, nospam wrote: >> >> except that's not based in reality. >> >> <http://fortune.com/2015/06/16/apple-google-maps-ios/> >> At WWDC last week Apple announced that it receives 5 billion requests >> per week for its mapping services and that Apple Maps is used 3.5 >> times more frequently than ³the next leading maps app²‹i.e. Google >> Maps. > > Apple stated. Right. You're suggesting Apple lied? -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-25 09:19 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <i7adnRC95YRiS7HLnZ2dnUU7-dmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84115 |
On 2015-10-24 12:26, Jolly Roger wrote: > Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: >> On 2015-10-23 20:21, nospam wrote: >>> >>> except that's not based in reality. >>> >>> <http://fortune.com/2015/06/16/apple-google-maps-ios/> >>> At WWDC last week Apple announced that it receives 5 billion requests >>> per week for its mapping services and that Apple Maps is used 3.5 >>> times more frequently than ³the next leading maps app²‹i.e. Google >>> Maps. >> >> Apple stated. Right. > > You're suggesting Apple lied? I'm suggesting that all the data isn't present. How do Apple determine if someone is using Google Maps data?
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 03:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn2lthc.d11.g.kreme@amelia.local> |
| In reply to | #84068 |
In message <562ac7b1$0$5903$b1db1813$19ace300@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2015-10-23 18:45, Lewis wrote: >> We know for a FACT (you may need to look that word up) that Google did >> not allow turn-by-turn directions in iOS. > We only know for a FACT that the existing Google Maps application did > not provide turn by turn. No, you are wrong. We know for a FACT that Google did not allow turn-by-turn directions in iOS. >> Most iOS users use Apple Maps. > On what basis do you proclaim that ? <http://fortune.com/2015/06/16/apple-google-maps-ios/> <http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/11/apple-maps-significantly-more-popular-than-all-other-ios-mapping-apps-including-google/> <http://techland.time.com/2013/11/12/failing-up-apple-maps-takes-a-bite-out-of-google/> > I can just as easily state that most IOS users have moved the Apple Maps > app to the "useless" folder on the very last page where most Apple users > put those apps we're not allowed to delete. YOU can state that since you are unconstrained by reality or facts. -- Where there is a party, everyone is there Everyone will leave at exactly the same time When this party is over it will start again But not been any different be exactly the same
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 10:32 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <7cmdncyq2f_7C7bLnZ2dnUU7-XWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84064 |
On 2015-10-23 18:45, Lewis wrote: > In message <562aad24$0$62773$c3e8da3$dbd57e7@news.astraweb.com> > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: >> On 2015-10-23 14:47, nospam wrote: > >>> google refused to allow turn by turn directions, so apple had no choice >>> but do their own maps. > >> This was during Steve Jobs era. Nobody really knows what really went on. > > We know for a FACT (you may need to look that word up) that Google did > not allow turn-by-turn directions in iOS. > > We know for a FACT (you may need to look that word up) that Apple had > turn-by-turn directions from the beginning with their mapping app. > > We know for a FACT (you may need to look that word up) that Google added > turn-by=turn directions to their app quite a while after Apple dumped > Google maps. What happened was one co. wouldn't trade features against the other co. Both companies were not in "good faith" negotiating mode. eg: Google wanted branding and the Latitude feature. Apple wanted turn-by-turn. Apple refused the former. Google refused the later. What order? Doesn't matter. They just wouldn't trade. > >> Guess what ? It still does because that is what people use because Apple >> Maps, while cute, is not reliable as a mapping product. > > Most iOS users use Apple Maps. Source?
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| From | Davoud <star@sky.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-23 21:32 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <231020152132028746%star@sky.net> |
| In reply to | #84047 |
nospam: > > plus, google was collecting vast amounts of customer data about how and > > where iphones and ipads were being used. F Mezei: > Guess what ? It still does because that is what people use because Apple > Maps, while cute, is not reliable as a mapping product. I didn't know anyone cared about tracking anymore. Christ, the Chinese have my personnel records, Apple tracks me, Google tracks me, AT&T and Verizon Wireless track me, Maryland and Pennsylvania both track me (EZ Passes from both states), my credit card issuers know everything I buy, the supermarket knows what my family eats, Flickr tracks me through metadata, ditto the Encyclopedia of Life and the Maryland Biodiversity Project (photos are useless without precise location data), and on and on. I started to make a text list of everyone who tracks me, but it filled my two 12TB RAID drives, so I deleted it. As for Apple Maps, don't know anything about it. I don't use the service except when some Apple-branded iOS app causes it to open. Google Maps has proved to be sufficiently accurate and convenient for my simple needs. -- I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that you will say in your entire life. usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 10:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <fqydnfG5q4pCD7bLnZ2dnUU7-QudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84032 |
On 2015-10-23 14:47, nospam wrote: > In article <jMOdnQ1ONvR_47fLnZ2dnUU7-dOdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne > <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > >>> E for effort. Apple should have left mapping to Google. Maybe spent the >>> time and money to give us a Lightroom competitor instead of the also >>> defective Photos.app. >> >> They did. Aperture. Oh. Right. >> >> Apple getting into Maps is clearly a strategic issue tying together >> people's daily planning through Apple wares. They could have used >> Google as a partner (as they had in the earlier iOS days) but in a tiff >> they went on their own fiasco path. It's finally smoothed out, but >> still a fraction of what Google was 5 years ago. Big waste, IMO. The >> only really useful thing in Apple Maps is the ability to send a route to >> one's iPhone. > > google refused to allow turn by turn directions, so apple had no choice > but do their own maps. Google didn't "refuse". Apple didn't want Google's terms which included branding, integration of Google's Latitude service, and so on. Apple wanted it to be a pure Apple experience. Well, they found that to be more difficult to deliver than expected. They haven't caught up. Couple all that to the growing animosity due to Android and Apple collecting map and nav related companies and Apple cornered themselves quite neatly. > plus, google was collecting vast amounts of customer data about how and > where iphones and ipads were being used. Another thing that could be negotiated out. Here were two companies too bound to what they wanted and not giving on key points. To date Apple has lost in the whole thing.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 14:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn2n76g.im8.g.kreme@amelia.local> |
| In reply to | #84089 |
In message <fqydnfG5q4pCD7bLnZ2dnUU7-QudnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > Another thing that could be negotiated out. Here were two companies too > bound to what they wanted and not giving on key points. To date Apple > has lost in the whole thing. Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google Maps. How you can characterize that as a LOSS for Apple is peculiar. Have you been studying at the JF School of "Facts"? -- "You can think and you can fight, but the world's always movin', and if you wanna stay ahead you gotta dance."
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 13:46 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <562bc40f$0$65346$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #84097 |
On 2015-10-24 10:57, Lewis wrote: > Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google > Maps. Those "hits" also include any display of map data , for instance when you take a photo and iPhoto shows where it was taken. It doesn't mean the user is actually using Apple Maps.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 18:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn2nilb.jqs.g.kreme@amelia.local> |
| In reply to | #84119 |
In message <562bc40f$0$65346$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2015-10-24 10:57, Lewis wrote: >> Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google >> Maps. > Those "hits" also include any display of map data , for instance when > you take a photo and iPhoto shows where it was taken. It doesn't mean > the user is actually using Apple Maps. Hits are one metric. Users are another. Both numbers are much higher for Apple. -- "He has Van Gogh's ear for music." - Billy Wilder
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 13:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <562bc3d1$0$65346$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #84097 |
On 2015-10-24 10:57, Lewis wrote: > Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google > Maps. How you can characterize that as a LOSS for Apple is peculiar. > Have you been studying at the JF School of "Facts"? Maybe they measured only in Cuppertino. Consider that vastly more than half of iPhones are outside the USA where Apple's Maps is outdated and inaccurate. To claim that vast majority of all iPhone users use Apple Maps more than Google is rather strange.
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| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 17:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <d91v52F4qicU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #84120 |
On 2015-10-24, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-10-24 10:57, Lewis wrote:
>
>> Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google
>> Maps. How you can characterize that as a LOSS for Apple is peculiar.
>> Have you been studying at the JF School of "Facts"?
>
>
> Maybe they measured only in Cuppertino.
>
> Consider that vastly more than half of iPhones are outside the USA where
> Apple's Maps is outdated and inaccurate. To claim that vast majority of
> all iPhone users use Apple Maps more than Google is rather strange.
Apple fanbois will not have it that Apple is anything other than perfect. It's
rather wearisome.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 5th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3181
Celebrate Maladay
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-25 09:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <i7adnRe95YQhSLHLnZ2dnUU7-dmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84097 |
On 2015-10-24 10:57, Lewis wrote: > In message <fqydnfG5q4pCD7bLnZ2dnUU7-QudnZ2d@giganews.com> > Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: >> Another thing that could be negotiated out. Here were two companies too >> bound to what they wanted and not giving on key points. To date Apple >> has lost in the whole thing. > > Apple has far more users of Apple Maps on iOS that Google has of Google > Maps. How you can characterize that as a LOSS for Apple is peculiar. They negotiated to a lose-lose. But Google retain Android as well as a slice of iOS. It's not a surprise that most people using iOS are using Apple Maps as it's the default Map app in there. OTOH, nobody on Android will be using Apple Maps at all.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 16:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <d91pfeF3n90U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #84089 |
Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > >> plus, google was collecting vast amounts of customer data about how and >> where iphones and ipads were being used. > > Another thing that could be negotiated out. Here were two companies too > bound to what they wanted and not giving on key points. To date Apple > has lost in the whole thing. I don't consider it a loss. I find Apple Maps useful since the areas I frequent are well covered, and I appreciate not sending that traffic to Google. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 17:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <241020151737118465%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #84089 |
In article <fqydnfG5q4pCD7bLnZ2dnUU7-QudnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote: > >>> E for effort. Apple should have left mapping to Google. Maybe spent the > >>> time and money to give us a Lightroom competitor instead of the also > >>> defective Photos.app. > >> > >> They did. Aperture. Oh. Right. > >> > >> Apple getting into Maps is clearly a strategic issue tying together > >> people's daily planning through Apple wares. They could have used > >> Google as a partner (as they had in the earlier iOS days) but in a tiff > >> they went on their own fiasco path. It's finally smoothed out, but > >> still a fraction of what Google was 5 years ago. Big waste, IMO. The > >> only really useful thing in Apple Maps is the ability to send a route to > >> one's iPhone. > > > > google refused to allow turn by turn directions, so apple had no choice > > but do their own maps. > > Google didn't "refuse". yes they did. google's licensing terms specifically prohibited turn by turn directions. that's clearly a refusal. apple has enough clout to negotiate their own terms, but google was the only game in town so they could say take it or leave it. by not allowing turn by turn on ios (which android had at the time), they could keep apple at a disadvantage. apple had no choice but to do their own. > Apple didn't want Google's terms which included > branding, integration of Google's Latitude service, and so on. Apple > wanted it to be a pure Apple experience. that's another part of it, but not the only part. google was getting a lot of user information based on location data and map searches. apple would rather they did not get that. > Well, they found that to be > more difficult to deliver than expected. They haven't caught up. that part is true. it's getting better but it will always trail behind google, which has a *huge* lead. > Couple all that to the growing animosity due to Android and Apple > collecting map and nav related companies and Apple cornered themselves > quite neatly. apple didn't corner themselves. they were cornered by google and sought to get out of that corner. however, the road out was not as smooth as they would have preferred. > > plus, google was collecting vast amounts of customer data about how and > > where iphones and ipads were being used. > > Another thing that could be negotiated out. Here were two companies too > bound to what they wanted and not giving on key points. To date Apple > has lost in the whole thing. you don't know how much google would bend on that. google's revenue is based on collecting data. giving that up is a direct financial hit and they're not going to let that go very easily.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 20:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <562c287b$0$27700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #84137 |
On 2015-10-24 17:37, nospam wrote: > yes they did. google's licensing terms specifically prohibited turn by > turn directions. that's clearly a refusal. the existing contract did not provide for turn by turn. This does not mean that Google refused to offer a new contract that did. > apple has enough clout to negotiate their own terms, No they don't, not against a bigger/equal giant: Google. > it's getting better but it will always trail behind google, which has a > *huge* lead. Not quite. If Apple had proper means for cities and individuals to report problems/changes, then Apple Maps would get updated at roughly the same speed as Google when new roads are opened or existing roads changed/closed. Apple having no web interface that is publicly available, it means that minicipalities and govts who are on Windows can't signal such changes to Apple, but they can to Google. Apple needs to ramp up its web presence to enable this. When you go to icloud to "find my iPhone", you'll find Apple already has a web interface for its Maps. It just needs to make it officially available on the web. > apple didn't corner themselves. they were cornered by google and sought > to get out of that corner. however, the road out was not as smooth as > they would have preferred. they focused on totally useless 3D view instead of on core data accuracy and completeness. But launching Maps without anything impressive would have generated "boring" reviews.
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| From | nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-24 21:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <241020152105439146%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
| In reply to | #84144 |
In article <562c287b$0$27700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > > yes they did. google's licensing terms specifically prohibited turn by > > turn directions. that's clearly a refusal. > > the existing contract did not provide for turn by turn. This does not > mean that Google refused to offer a new contract that did. google's terms of use specifically stated no turn by turn for *anyone*. > > apple has enough clout to negotiate their own terms, > > No they don't, not against a bigger/equal giant: Google. the hell they don't. google makes a *lot* of money from ios devices. > > it's getting better but it will always trail behind google, which has a > > *huge* lead. > > Not quite. If Apple had proper means for cities and individuals to > report problems/changes, then Apple Maps would get updated at roughly > the same speed as Google when new roads are opened or existing roads > changed/closed. there's a way to report errors. the problem is that not much happens. > Apple having no web interface that is publicly available, it means that > minicipalities and govts who are on Windows can't signal such changes to > Apple, but they can to Google. do it on the device. > Apple needs to ramp up its web presence to enable this. When you go to > icloud to "find my iPhone", you'll find Apple already has a web > interface for its Maps. It just needs to make it officially available on > the web. being able to report errors in a browser is not the problem. the problem is that apple needs to actually verify the errors and fixes and then update the map data. google does that fairly fast. apple does that fairly slow or not at all. > > apple didn't corner themselves. they were cornered by google and sought > > to get out of that corner. however, the road out was not as smooth as > > they would have preferred. > > they focused on totally useless 3D view instead of on core data accuracy > and completeness. But launching Maps without anything impressive would > have generated "boring" reviews. it's a lot easier to fly a plane and get 3d view than drive every street for street view.
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| From | dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-25 16:57 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <1mcuxlh.11a16ho26966nN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> |
| In reply to | #84145 |
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: > In article <562c287b$0$27700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > > > Apple needs to ramp up its web presence to enable this. When you go to > > icloud to "find my iPhone", you'll find Apple already has a web > > interface for its Maps. It just needs to make it officially available on > > the web. > > being able to report errors in a browser is not the problem. > > the problem is that apple needs to actually verify the errors and fixes > and then update the map data. > > google does that fairly fast. apple does that fairly slow or not at all. I reported an error in Apple Maps a few weeks ago and it was fixed within a week. (A hotel in Masterton, New Zealand was shown as being in the completely wrong part of town.) I haven't noticed any other map errors recently. -- David Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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| From | dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-25 16:48 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <do_ray_me-12AB53.16481625102015@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com> |
| In reply to | #84148 |
In article <1mcuxlh.11a16ho26966nN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote: > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > > In article <562c287b$0$27700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF > > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > > > > > Apple needs to ramp up its web presence to enable this. When you go to > > > icloud to "find my iPhone", you'll find Apple already has a web > > > interface for its Maps. It just needs to make it officially available on > > > the web. > > > > being able to report errors in a browser is not the problem. > > > > the problem is that apple needs to actually verify the errors and fixes > > and then update the map data. > > > > google does that fairly fast. apple does that fairly slow or not at all. > > I reported an error in Apple Maps a few weeks ago and it was fixed > within a week. (A hotel in Masterton, New Zealand was shown as being in > the completely wrong part of town.) > > I haven't noticed any other map errors recently. In contrast, I have emailed, filled in forms and even talked on the phone to Google to get a grave error fixed on their Maps regarding a client of mine and it is a very difficult process. I think success has been achieved but it took months! -- dorayme
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-25 09:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <i7adnQ295YTMRbHLnZ2dnUU7-dmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #84149 |
On 2015-10-25 01:48, dorayme wrote: > In article <1mcuxlh.11a16ho26966nN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, > dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote: > >> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote: >> >>> In article <562c287b$0$27700$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF >>> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: >>> >>>> Apple needs to ramp up its web presence to enable this. When you go to >>>> icloud to "find my iPhone", you'll find Apple already has a web >>>> interface for its Maps. It just needs to make it officially available on >>>> the web. >>> >>> being able to report errors in a browser is not the problem. >>> >>> the problem is that apple needs to actually verify the errors and fixes >>> and then update the map data. >>> >>> google does that fairly fast. apple does that fairly slow or not at all. >> >> I reported an error in Apple Maps a few weeks ago and it was fixed >> within a week. (A hotel in Masterton, New Zealand was shown as being in >> the completely wrong part of town.) >> >> I haven't noticed any other map errors recently. > > In contrast, I have emailed, filled in forms and even talked on the > phone to Google to get a grave error fixed on their Maps regarding a > client of mine and it is a very difficult process. I think success has > been achieved but it took months! I just correct them in Google Map Maker and they're accepted within hours to days.
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