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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #97008 > unrolled thread

Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software

Started byJeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com>
First post2016-11-17 23:19 +0100
Last post2016-11-24 08:47 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 88 — 19 participants

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Contents

  Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> - 2016-11-17 23:19 +0100
    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-17 19:25 -0500
      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-17 19:33 -0500
        Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-17 19:43 -0500
          Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-17 20:44 -0500
        More trolls purveying "fake news" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-11-18 05:31 -0500
          Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:18 -0500
            Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 09:38 -0500
          Re: Propaganda "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:21 +0800
          Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-18 19:26 -0500
            Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-11-19 06:29 -0500
              Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-19 09:03 -0500
                Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-19 09:08 -0500
                Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-11-19 09:58 -0500
                  Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-19 10:25 -0500
                    Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-11-19 14:43 -0500
                      Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-19 15:56 -0500
                      Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-21 07:06 -0600
                        Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-21 08:46 -0500
                          Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-21 11:52 -0500
                            Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-21 12:01 -0500
                              Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-11-22 13:44 -0700
                                Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> - 2016-11-23 00:30 +0100
                        Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Anonymous <anonymous@hoi-polloi.org> - 2016-11-22 01:53 +0100
                    Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-11-19 15:05 -0700
                      Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201611.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2016-11-20 11:33 +0000
                      Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 10:04 -0500
                        Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-11-20 21:47 -0700
            Re: More trolls purveying "fake news" flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-19 07:50 -0500
        Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 08:08 -0500
          Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 21:45 +0800
            Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 21:46 +0800
              Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:22 -0500
                Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:29 +0800
                  Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:51 -0500
                    Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:55 +0800
                      Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 12:03 -0500
                        Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux android <here@there.was> - 2016-11-20 06:33 +0100
                      Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2016-11-18 12:12 -0700
                  Re: Running Micro$oft Office in Linux Dr Eberhard Lisse <nospam@lisse.NA> - 2016-11-24 16:06 +0200
                Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 11:45 +0000
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software android <here@there.was> - 2016-11-22 13:35 +0100
            Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:21 -0500
              Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:28 +0800
                Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:50 -0500
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 09:53 -0500
                    Re: Office 2003 and big monitor "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:56 +0800
                      Re: Office 2003 and big monitor flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 10:02 -0500
                        Re: Office 2003 and big monitor "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 23:22 +0800
                          Re: Office 2003 and big monitor flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 11:49 -0500
                            Re: Office 2003 and big monitor "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-19 10:58 +0800
                              Re: Office 2003 and big monitor flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-19 07:47 -0500
                                Re: Office 2003 and big monitor "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 00:25 +0800
                    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 12:00 -0500
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-11-18 08:47 -0700
                    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 23:50 +0800
                      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-11-18 11:48 -0700
              Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 09:41 -0500
                Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 09:53 -0500
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 22:59 +0800
                    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 12:05 -0500
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-18 10:01 -0500
                    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 12:06 -0500
      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 18:54 +0800
      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-18 08:06 -0500
      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Bob Chapman <msu79@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-19 21:56 +0000
        Fake News: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2016-11-19 18:56 -0500
          Re: News: Munich city considering a  move back to Windows and Office flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 09:40 -0500
        Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 09:36 -0500
          Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-20 10:40 -0500
            Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 10:47 -0500
              Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2016-11-20 12:17 -0500
                Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 15:26 -0500
                  Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-11-20 15:03 -0700
                    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-11-21 00:00 +0100
                      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 18:15 -0500
                        Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-11-20 16:18 -0700
                      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-11-20 16:17 -0700
                      Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-20 18:41 -0500
                        Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software flatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org> - 2016-11-20 18:52 -0500
                          Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Silver Slimer <.m@nsn.s> - 2016-11-21 07:56 -0500
                            Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Anonymous <anonymous@hoi-polloi.org> - 2016-11-22 02:13 +0100
                Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-21 07:52 -0600
    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-11-18 09:15 +0100
    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-11-18 18:52 +0800
    Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2016-11-18 18:34 -0500
    Re: Munich city planning to move back  to Windows and Office from open-source software Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2016-11-23 16:02 -0800
      Re: Munich city planning to move back  to Windows and Office from open-source software android <here@there.was> - 2016-11-24 08:47 +0100

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#97195

Frompinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-22 11:45 +0000
Message-ID<o11b49$qpa$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97043
Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2016-11-18 8:46 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 18/11/2016 9:45 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>> On 18/11/2016 9:08 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> LiMux is a Munich-made Linux distribution for their own specific needs.
>>>> I don't know if it's available to everyone but if China's version of
>>>> Linux is, I can't imagine why this one wouldn't be. However, I like the
>>>> way you described the "Linux desktop."
>>>
>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>>
>> 
>> Why don't they just find a way to run Micro$oft Office in Linux? Wine?
> 
> Old versions of Microsoft Office work in Wine but not the latest ones.
> 

I became a dyed-in-the-wool Linux user about 12 years ago, yet I still use 
XP for most of my office work as a virtual guest of Mageia Linux.

Recently I was compelled to add Windows 10 alongside XP by a developer who 
could no longer support his program running under XP.

Although I sometimes use LibreOffice, I much prefer Word and Excel 2000 both 
of which do not have the bloat of older versions. 

When I built my first office-ready computer in late 1979 and insisted that 
my staff ditch their typewriters for it and its later sister, productivity 
did go down but when I sold the typewriters and there was no way back, it 
began to go up.

When I later added Linux and ran Windows 98 under Win4lin, I configured the 
Linux KDE desktop to look exactly like Windows 98 and even downloaded look 
alike icons for similar use programs such as 'Paint's' for Gimp etc. The 
transition was seamless, except for my business partner who never knew which 
operating system he was in and would happily open files in 'Calc' saying 
'this version of Excel is a bit different but I quite like it'.

I think Munich must have handled the implementation heavy handedly. Now they 
are neither twixt nor between.

Alan

-- 
Mageia 5 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.16-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

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#97196

Fromandroid <here@there.was>
Date2016-11-22 13:35 +0100
Message-ID<here-375873.13351022112016@news.individual.net>
In reply to#97195
In article <o11b49$qpa$4@dont-email.me>, pinnerite <pinnerite@gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Silver Slimer wrote:
> 
> > On 2016-11-18 8:46 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> >> On 18/11/2016 9:45 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> >>> On 18/11/2016 9:08 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> LiMux is a Munich-made Linux distribution for their own specific needs.
> >>>> I don't know if it's available to everyone but if China's version of
> >>>> Linux is, I can't imagine why this one wouldn't be. However, I like the
> >>>> way you described the "Linux desktop."
> >>>
> >>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
> >>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
> >>>
> >> 
> >> Why don't they just find a way to run Micro$oft Office in Linux? Wine?
> > 
> > Old versions of Microsoft Office work in Wine but not the latest ones.
> > 
You can't really expect volunteers work hard extra hours so that you can 
run programs for Windows in computers designed for and used by people 
who is trained on Windows for free... Windows is cheap compared to the 
cost of extra education of staff and lost of productivity. Especially 
when you get those opsis bugs that can appear when software compiled for 
one platform is used on another. 

I run stuff in Wine on the OSX but I'm a bad Apple...
> 
> I became a dyed-in-the-wool Linux user about 12 years ago, yet I still use 
> XP for most of my office work as a virtual guest of Mageia Linux.
> 
> Recently I was compelled to add Windows 10 alongside XP by a developer who 
> could no longer support his program running under XP.
> 
> Although I sometimes use LibreOffice, I much prefer Word and Excel 2000 both 
> of which do not have the bloat of older versions. 
> 
> When I built my first office-ready computer in late 1979 and insisted that 
> my staff ditch their typewriters for it and its later sister, productivity 
> did go down but when I sold the typewriters and there was no way back, it 
> began to go up.
> 
> When I later added Linux and ran Windows 98 under Win4lin, I configured the 
> Linux KDE desktop to look exactly like Windows 98 and even downloaded look 
> alike icons for similar use programs such as 'Paint's' for Gimp etc. The 
> transition was seamless, except for my business partner who never knew which 
> operating system he was in and would happily open files in 'Calc' saying 
> 'this version of Excel is a bit different but I quite like it'.
> 
> I think Munich must have handled the implementation heavy handedly. Now they 
> are neither twixt nor between.

No use to force workers to use Linux if all they do is using programs 
designed for Windows...
-- 
teleportation kills

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#97042

FromSilver Slimer <.m@nsn.s>
Date2016-11-18 09:21 -0500
Message-ID<o0n2ov$4q1$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97038
On 2016-11-18 8:45 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 18/11/2016 9:08 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>
>> LiMux is a Munich-made Linux distribution for their own specific needs.
>> I don't know if it's available to everyone but if China's version of
>> Linux is, I can't imagine why this one wouldn't be. However, I like the
>> way you described the "Linux desktop."
> 
> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)

Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.

Of course, I only really use Word.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Islam is a disease
Proud libertarian, unapologetic nerd, author, gamer, beast-mode teacher
and silver-tongued heel
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97044

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-18 22:28 +0800
Message-ID<o0n359$7bu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97042
On 18/11/2016 10:21 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>
>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>
> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>
> Of course, I only really use Word.

Micro$oft Office, notably Word, has a long, long history. OpenOffice is 
not 100% compatible to it. For most secretaries and clerks, the switch 
to OpenOffice/LibreOffice is really painful and slow. UNLESS, they only 
do simple documents, no fancy stuff.

Still, the problem is NOT Linux the operating system. It's not about 
Window$ 10. It's always and forever about Microsoft or Micro$oft 
**Office**!!

If they were to stick with OpenOffice or LibreOffice, they should stop 
playing with fancy functions. They should stop dynamically linking Word 
with Excel or Powerpoint. They should use static images, everything static.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97048

FromSilver Slimer <.m@nsn.s>
Date2016-11-18 09:50 -0500
Message-ID<o0n4e7$btk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97044
On 2016-11-18 9:28 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> On 18/11/2016 10:21 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>
>> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
>> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
>> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
>> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
>> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
>> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>>
>> Of course, I only really use Word.
> 
> Micro$oft Office, notably Word, has a long, long history. OpenOffice is
> not 100% compatible to it. For most secretaries and clerks, the switch
> to OpenOffice/LibreOffice is really painful and slow. UNLESS, they only
> do simple documents, no fancy stuff.

Simple documents are the only kinds I make. That might be why I have no
real problem with LibreOffice. Once media starts getting added to a
document, I'll admit that it becomes quite problematic. I have to assume
that secretaries lose access to shortcuts and macros in transitioning to
LibreOffice as well but I find that the developers try to implement
familiar features in their suite fairly well.

> Still, the problem is NOT Linux the operating system. It's not about
> Window$ 10. It's always and forever about Microsoft or Micro$oft
> **Office**!!

In so much that Microsoft creates the standard and therefore the
expectation of how software _should_ work. There is a reason why so many
DEs in Linux behave like Windows9x did and it's because Microsoft
created that "standard" and expectation. As such, people expect things
from LibreOffice which obviously exist in Microsoft's iteration but
might not _yet_ exist in LibreOffice. It doesn't make Linux or its
software bad but instead makes their functionality unfortunate given the
expectations that people might have.

> If they were to stick with OpenOffice or LibreOffice, they should stop
> playing with fancy functions. They should stop dynamically linking Word
> with Excel or Powerpoint. They should use static images, everything static.

Your suggestion might have merit but I'm not enough of a professional
with the office suite to be able to agree or disagree.

-- 
Silver Slimer
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Islam is a disease
Proud libertarian, unapologetic nerd, author, gamer, beast-mode teacher
and silver-tongued heel
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97051

Fromflatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org>
Date2016-11-18 09:53 -0500
Message-ID<e98ivtFu6k9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97048
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:50:16 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2016-11-18 9:28 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 18/11/2016 10:21 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>>
>>> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
>>> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
>>> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
>>> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
>>> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
>>> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>>>
>>> Of course, I only really use Word.
>> 
>> Micro$oft Office, notably Word, has a long, long history. OpenOffice is
>> not 100% compatible to it. For most secretaries and clerks, the switch
>> to OpenOffice/LibreOffice is really painful and slow. UNLESS, they only
>> do simple documents, no fancy stuff.
> 
> Simple documents are the only kinds I make. That might be why I have no
> real problem with LibreOffice. Once media starts getting added to a
> document, I'll admit that it becomes quite problematic. I have to assume
> that secretaries lose access to shortcuts and macros in transitioning to
> LibreOffice as well but I find that the developers try to implement
> familiar features in their suite fairly well.
> 
>> Still, the problem is NOT Linux the operating system. It's not about
>> Window$ 10. It's always and forever about Microsoft or Micro$oft
>> **Office**!!
> 
> In so much that Microsoft creates the standard and therefore the
> expectation of how software _should_ work. There is a reason why so many
> DEs in Linux behave like Windows9x did and it's because Microsoft
> created that "standard" and expectation. As such, people expect things
> from LibreOffice which obviously exist in Microsoft's iteration but
> might not _yet_ exist in LibreOffice. It doesn't make Linux or its
> software bad but instead makes their functionality unfortunate given the
> expectations that people might have.
> 
>> If they were to stick with OpenOffice or LibreOffice, they should stop
>> playing with fancy functions. They should stop dynamically linking Word
>> with Excel or Powerpoint. They should use static images, everything static.
> 
> Your suggestion might have merit but I'm not enough of a professional
> with the office suite to be able to agree or disagree.

I use MSOffice 2003 and it works fine for me.
Like you, my needs are simple.

As for Wine, the minute Wine is brought up as an alternative it's game
over. Either find a native to the OS application or find another OS
that has the applications you need to run.

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench

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#97053 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-18 22:56 +0800
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<o0n4qe$cdq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97051
On 18/11/2016 10:53 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>
> I use MSOffice 2003 and it works fine for me.
> Like you, my needs are simple.
>
> As for Wine, the minute Wine is brought up as an alternative it's game
> over. Either find a native to the OS application or find another OS
> that has the applications you need to run.

Are you on a big monitor? Do you wanna make Office 2003's menu font size 
bigger?

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#97056 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

Fromflatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org>
Date2016-11-18 10:02 -0500
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<e98jgaFubjmU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97053
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 22:56:48 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> On 18/11/2016 10:53 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>> I use MSOffice 2003 and it works fine for me.
>> Like you, my needs are simple.
>>
>> As for Wine, the minute Wine is brought up as an alternative it's game
>> over. Either find a native to the OS application or find another OS
>> that has the applications you need to run.
> 
> Are you on a big monitor? Do you wanna make Office 2003's menu font size 
> bigger?

I have twin 27 inch LED monitors.
I have the systemwide font size at 125% though.
Looks fine to me.

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97057 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-18 23:22 +0800
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<o0n6ai$ic8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97056
On 18/11/2016 11:02 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>
> I have twin 27 inch LED monitors.
> I have the systemwide font size at 125% though.
> Looks fine to me.

Try changing Menu font size:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/29244/customize-the-title-bar-and-other-system-fonts-in-windows-7/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97063 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

Fromflatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org>
Date2016-11-18 11:49 -0500
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<e98po8F1d41U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97057
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 23:22:27 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> On 18/11/2016 11:02 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>> I have twin 27 inch LED monitors.
>> I have the systemwide font size at 125% though.
>> Looks fine to me.
> 
> Try changing Menu font size:
> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/29244/customize-the-title-bar-and-other-system-fonts-in-windows-7/

I'm running Windows 10. Don't feel like screwing up my system. What am
I supposed to see?
-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench

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#97087 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-19 10:58 +0800
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<o0of2n$jvm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97063
On 19/11/2016 12:49 AM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>> Try changing Menu font size:
>> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/29244/customize-the-title-bar-and-other-system-fonts-in-windows-7/
>
> I'm running Windows 10. Don't feel like screwing up my system. What am
> I supposed to see?

Larger menu fonts in Word/Excel/PowerPoint 2003? Anyway, try it when you 
have time.

On my 25-inch 2560x1440 monitor, even with DPI set to 150%, the menu 
font size of Office 2003 is not change, making it hard to see. A 27-inch 
monitor might not have the same problem.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97092 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

Fromflatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org>
Date2016-11-19 07:47 -0500
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<e9avvsFhaqaU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97087
On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 10:58:02 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> On 19/11/2016 12:49 AM, flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> Try changing Menu font size:
>>> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/29244/customize-the-title-bar-and-other-system-fonts-in-windows-7/
>>
>> I'm running Windows 10. Don't feel like screwing up my system. What am
>> I supposed to see?
> 
> Larger menu fonts in Word/Excel/PowerPoint 2003? Anyway, try it when you 
> have time.
> 
> On my 25-inch 2560x1440 monitor, even with DPI set to 150%, the menu 
> font size of Office 2003 is not change, making it hard to see. A 27-inch 
> monitor might not have the same problem.

I just tried it and you are correct. It does get a very  bit little
larger but definitely does not scale up the same as other programs do.
I never really noticed before as the size doesn't bother me but I do
see where it could be a problem for some users.
-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97102 — Re: Office 2003 and big monitor

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-20 00:25 +0800
SubjectRe: Office 2003 and big monitor
Message-ID<o0pucs$5dj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97092
On 19/11/2016 8:47 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
> I just tried it and you are correct. It does get a very  bit little
> larger but definitely does not scale up the same as other programs do.
> I never really noticed before as the size doesn't bother me but I do
> see where it could be a problem for some users.

Think old persons, like your parents and grand-parents! :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97064

FromSilver Slimer <.m@nsn.s>
Date2016-11-18 12:00 -0500
Message-ID<o0nc2s$958$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97051
On 2016-11-18 9:53 AM, flatfish+++ wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:50:16 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-11-18 9:28 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>> On 18/11/2016 10:21 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>>>
>>>> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
>>>> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
>>>> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
>>>> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
>>>> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
>>>> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I only really use Word.
>>>
>>> Micro$oft Office, notably Word, has a long, long history. OpenOffice is
>>> not 100% compatible to it. For most secretaries and clerks, the switch
>>> to OpenOffice/LibreOffice is really painful and slow. UNLESS, they only
>>> do simple documents, no fancy stuff.
>>
>> Simple documents are the only kinds I make. That might be why I have no
>> real problem with LibreOffice. Once media starts getting added to a
>> document, I'll admit that it becomes quite problematic. I have to assume
>> that secretaries lose access to shortcuts and macros in transitioning to
>> LibreOffice as well but I find that the developers try to implement
>> familiar features in their suite fairly well.
>>
>>> Still, the problem is NOT Linux the operating system. It's not about
>>> Window$ 10. It's always and forever about Microsoft or Micro$oft
>>> **Office**!!
>>
>> In so much that Microsoft creates the standard and therefore the
>> expectation of how software _should_ work. There is a reason why so many
>> DEs in Linux behave like Windows9x did and it's because Microsoft
>> created that "standard" and expectation. As such, people expect things
>> from LibreOffice which obviously exist in Microsoft's iteration but
>> might not _yet_ exist in LibreOffice. It doesn't make Linux or its
>> software bad but instead makes their functionality unfortunate given the
>> expectations that people might have.
>>
>>> If they were to stick with OpenOffice or LibreOffice, they should stop
>>> playing with fancy functions. They should stop dynamically linking Word
>>> with Excel or Powerpoint. They should use static images, everything static.
>>
>> Your suggestion might have merit but I'm not enough of a professional
>> with the office suite to be able to agree or disagree.
> 
> I use MSOffice 2003 and it works fine for me.
> Like you, my needs are simple.
> 
> As for Wine, the minute Wine is brought up as an alternative it's game
> over. Either find a native to the OS application or find another OS
> that has the applications you need to run.

To be fair, Linux has all of the applications I need. I need
Thunderbird, VLC (less now, admittedly), a music management program
(Linux's are awful but do the job), a browser, an office suite and
Steam. The problem - with this laptop anyway - is that venturing to
Linux will make it impossible to connect to the printer connected to my
router, will disable the illuminated keyboard's luxury functions like
colour cycling and will disable access to higher quality games. I can
manage without, but it also doesn't allow the computer to work well on
the NVIDIA GPU (the open-source one is surprisingly pretty good but is
essentially useless on 3D).

I'm in the "watch and wait" camp when it comes to Linux. I'm waiting for
the day when I will plunge in and not look back but it is not yet there.


-- 
Silver Slimer
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Islam is a disease
Proud libertarian, unapologetic nerd, author, gamer, beast-mode teacher
and silver-tongued heel
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97060

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2016-11-18 08:47 -0700
Message-ID<D4547092.82F4F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#97048
On 11/18/16, 7:50 AM, in article o0n4e7$btk$1@dont-email.me, "Silver Slimer"
<.m@nsn.s> wrote:

> On 2016-11-18 9:28 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 18/11/2016 10:21 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>> 
>>> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
>>> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
>>> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
>>> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
>>> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
>>> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>>> 
>>> Of course, I only really use Word.
>> 
>> Micro$oft Office, notably Word, has a long, long history. OpenOffice is
>> not 100% compatible to it. For most secretaries and clerks, the switch
>> to OpenOffice/LibreOffice is really painful and slow. UNLESS, they only
>> do simple documents, no fancy stuff.
> 
> Simple documents are the only kinds I make. That might be why I have no
> real problem with LibreOffice. Once media starts getting added to a
> document, I'll admit that it becomes quite problematic. I have to assume
> that secretaries lose access to shortcuts and macros in transitioning to
> LibreOffice as well but I find that the developers try to implement
> familiar features in their suite fairly well.
> 
>> Still, the problem is NOT Linux the operating system. It's not about
>> Window$ 10. It's always and forever about Microsoft or Micro$oft
>> **Office**!!
> 
> In so much that Microsoft creates the standard and therefore the
> expectation of how software _should_ work. There is a reason why so many
> DEs in Linux behave like Windows9x did and it's because Microsoft
> created that "standard" and expectation. As such, people expect things
> from LibreOffice which obviously exist in Microsoft's iteration but
> might not _yet_ exist in LibreOffice. It doesn't make Linux or its
> software bad but instead makes their functionality unfortunate given the
> expectations that people might have.

Apple has been able to be creative in those spaces. Pages is NOT a clone of
MS Word... and it does many things better (but is much more limited).
Numbers is very different than Excel and has some pretty clear pros and
cons. Keynote is different than PowerPoint and is, in most ways, better.

One of the challenges with open source is the lack of creativity... which
leads to less real choice.

>> If they were to stick with OpenOffice or LibreOffice, they should stop
>> playing with fancy functions. They should stop dynamically linking Word
>> with Excel or Powerpoint. They should use static images, everything static.
> 
> Your suggestion might have merit but I'm not enough of a professional
> with the office suite to be able to agree or disagree.

If they stuck with LO they would be far more limited -- they would have
fewer choices. Not sure how to twist that to sound like it is good.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97061

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-18 23:50 +0800
Message-ID<o0n7uv$ole$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97060
On 18/11/2016 11:47 PM, Snit wrote:
> Apple has been able to be creative in those spaces. Pages is NOT a clone of
> MS Word... and it does many things better (but is much more limited).
> Numbers is very different than Excel and has some pretty clear pros and
> cons. Keynote is different than PowerPoint and is, in most ways, better.

What we need is a shared remote desktop, not Apple? :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97069

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2016-11-18 11:48 -0700
Message-ID<D4549B23.82F8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to#97061
On 11/18/16, 8:50 AM, in article o0n7uv$ole$1@dont-email.me, "Mr. Man-wai
Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 18/11/2016 11:47 PM, Snit wrote:
>> Apple has been able to be creative in those spaces. Pages is NOT a clone of
>> MS Word... and it does many things better (but is much more limited).
>> Numbers is very different than Excel and has some pretty clear pros and
>> cons. Keynote is different than PowerPoint and is, in most ways, better.
> 
> What we need is a shared remote desktop, not Apple? :)
> 
I do shared remote desktops from one OS to another.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97047

Fromflatfish+++ <flatfish@linuxmail.org>
Date2016-11-18 09:41 -0500
Message-ID<e98i84Fu24rU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#97042
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:21:53 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote:

> On 2016-11-18 8:45 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 18/11/2016 9:08 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>
>>> LiMux is a Munich-made Linux distribution for their own specific needs.
>>> I don't know if it's available to everyone but if China's version of
>>> Linux is, I can't imagine why this one wouldn't be. However, I like the
>>> way you described the "Linux desktop."
>> 
>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
> 
> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
> 
> Of course, I only really use Word.

Betting on Linux is like betting on the 3 legged horse at the Kentucky
Derby.
It's a sure loser.

The only ones who gained from this Munich Linux Migration are the
people who milked it for 13 years and lined their own pockets with
money.
It was doomed from the start.

-- 
flatfish+++
mariana trench

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97050

FromSilver Slimer <.m@nsn.s>
Date2016-11-18 09:53 -0500
Message-ID<o0n4jp$btk$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97047
On 2016-11-18 9:41 AM, flatfish+++ wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:21:53 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-11-18 8:45 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>> On 18/11/2016 9:08 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> LiMux is a Munich-made Linux distribution for their own specific needs.
>>>> I don't know if it's available to everyone but if China's version of
>>>> Linux is, I can't imagine why this one wouldn't be. However, I like the
>>>> way you described the "Linux desktop."
>>>
>>> Their problems have nothing to do with Linux. Their way of working and
>>> doing things are *TIGHTLY* tied to Micro$oft Office. :)
>>
>> Which is fairly stupid. I imagine that there are certain office
>> functions which only exist in Microsoft Office and not in LibreOffice
>> but I doubt that they are that numerous. I also imagine that some
>> employees might complete work at home in Microsoft Office and find
>> incompatibility issues when they bring it in to work in LibreOffice but
>> I doubt that the results are THAT bad after conversion.
>>
>> Of course, I only really use Word.
> 
> Betting on Linux is like betting on the 3 legged horse at the Kentucky
> Derby.
> It's a sure loser.
> 
> The only ones who gained from this Munich Linux Migration are the
> people who milked it for 13 years and lined their own pockets with
> money.
> It was doomed from the start.

In their position, I would stick to Linux and hire the right support
staff or developers to improve the software to meet everyone's needs.
After all, if they are no longer paying for licenses, they should have
enough money to hire the people necessary to make a lower quality
product acceptable to everyone. If they're not willing to do that,
Microsoft becomes the only way to go.


-- 
Silver Slimer
Liberalism is a mental disorder, Islam is a disease
Proud libertarian, unapologetic nerd, author, gamer, beast-mode teacher
and silver-tongued heel
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#97054

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-18 22:59 +0800
Message-ID<o0n4uo$cdq$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#97050
On 18/11/2016 10:53 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
>
> In their position, I would stick to Linux and hire the right support
> staff or developers to improve the software to meet everyone's needs.
> After all, if they are no longer paying for licenses, they should have
> enough money to hire the people necessary to make a lower quality
> product acceptable to everyone. If they're not willing to do that,
> Microsoft becomes the only way to go.

They need to simplify and change the way to do documents. Then they 
could continue their OpenOffice/LibreOffice crusade.

Anyway, older persons with old habits die hard. It's really hard to 
learn new things, like switching from M$ Office to OpenOffice, for older 
employees and citizens. :)

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