Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #82265 > unrolled thread

Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Started by	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
First post	2015-10-07 12:43 -0500
Last post	2015-10-07 16:38 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 129 — 14 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →

#82317

From	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
Date	2015-10-07 14:22 -0500
Message-ID	<ae2dnQELzMRB7YjLnZ2dnUU7-TednZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to	#82304

> >> > When I hold down a key to repeat showing its character (e.g., z for
> >> > zzzzzzzzzz) in Mac OS X v10.10.5, I get a pop-up window showing other
> >> > characters. How can I disabled this and have my stuck key to show all if
> >> > its character I want? I checked my Keyboard settings and couldn't change
> >> > it. The only app that does this correctly is Terminal. Word 2011,
> >> > TextEdit, etc. show this issue. :(
> >> > 
> >> > Thank you in advance. :)
> >
> >> I thought there as a GUI setting for this but cannot find it off hand.
> >
> >> Did find this:
> >
> >>     defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false
> >
> >> Warning, that is from here: <http://goo.gl/lSgE2> and was written for Lion.
> >
> >> Other sites give the same command, though, and I see no evidence of anyone
> >> blowing their computer up with it. :)
> >
> > What sucks is that what if I want to use this feature? So I have to use 
> > this command back and forth in Terminal? :(

> You can still repeat a letter - you just have to press the key
> repeatedly rather than holding it down.

Yeah, but annoying. I'm old school. :P
-- 
Quote of the Week: "It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the 
mountain peaks while the lowly ant crawls the ground, but cannot the 
soul of the ant soar as high as the eagle?" --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
 / /\ /\ \                 Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /    Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
    ( )     ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82334

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-07 19:48 +0000
Message-ID	<d7lb8vFpd5dU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#82317

On 2015-10-07, Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> You can still repeat a letter - you just have to press the key
>> repeatedly rather than holding it down.
>
> Yeah, but annoying. I'm old school. :P

So set the preference to repeat rather than show the special characters
menu. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82356

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-08 09:19 +1300
Message-ID	<081020150919487421%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82317

In article <ae2dnQELzMRB7YjLnZ2dnUU7-TednZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> > >> > 
> > >> > When I hold down a key to repeat showing its character (e.g., z for
> > >> > zzzzzzzzzz) in Mac OS X v10.10.5, I get a pop-up window showing other
> > >> > characters. How can I disabled this and have my stuck key to show all
> > >> > if
> > >> > its character I want? I checked my Keyboard settings and couldn't
> > >> > change
> > >> > it. The only app that does this correctly is Terminal. Word 2011,
> > >> > TextEdit, etc. show this issue. :(
> > >> > 
> > >> > Thank you in advance. :)
> > >
> > >> I thought there as a GUI setting for this but cannot find it off hand.
> > >
> > >> Did find this:
> > >
> > >>     defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false
> > >
> > >> Warning, that is from here: <http://goo.gl/lSgE2> and was written for
> > >> Lion.
> > >
> > >> Other sites give the same command, though, and I see no evidence of
> > >> anyone
> > >> blowing their computer up with it. :)
> > >
> > > What sucks is that what if I want to use this feature? So I have to use 
> > > this command back and forth in Terminal? :(
> > 
> > You can still repeat a letter - you just have to press the key
> > repeatedly rather than holding it down.
> 
> Yeah, but annoying. I'm old school. :P

Repeatedly typing the key *IS* "old school".  :-p

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
versa).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82365

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-07 20:29 +0000
Message-ID	<d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#82356

On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
> versa).

That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82427

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 16:37 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82365

On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
>> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
>> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
>> versa).
> 
> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82443

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-08 13:28 +1300
Message-ID	<081020151328490976%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82427

In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
> >> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
> >> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
> >> versa).
> > 
> > That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
> 
> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.

"Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
something different.   :-\

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82447

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 00:33 +0000
Message-ID	<d7lru6Ft3hcU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#82443

On 2015-10-08, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
><usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> > On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
>> >> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
>> >> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
>> >> versa).
>> > 
>> > That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>> 
>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>
> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> something different.   :-\

You're being pretty ridiculous.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82449

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 17:35 -0700
Message-ID	<D23B0861.5F6F2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82447

On 10/7/15, 5:33 PM, in article d7lru6Ft3hcU8@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-08, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
>>>>> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
>>>>> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
>>>>> versa).
>>>> 
>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>>> 
>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>> 
>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
>> something different.   :-\
> 
> You're being pretty ridiculous.

I suspect on purpose.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82476

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-07 23:00 -0400
Message-ID	<071020152300546863%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82449

In article <D23B0861.5F6F2%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> >> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> >> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> >> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> >> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> >> something different.   :-\
> > 
> > You're being pretty ridiculous.
> 
> I suspect on purpose.

he isn't.

he's still figuring out his mac g3 with 10.2. seriously.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82487

From	Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date	2015-10-08 04:23 +0000
Message-ID	<slrnn1bs2h.2icf.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to	#82447

In message <d7lru6Ft3hcU8@mid.individual.net> 
  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2015-10-08, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>><usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> > On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
>>> >> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
>>> >> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
>>> >> versa).
>>> > 
>>> > That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>>> 
>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>>
>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
>> something different.   :-\

> You're being pretty ridiculous.

*NOW* He's being ridiculous?

*cough*


-- 
Someone's behind this. Someone wants to see a war. [...] I've got to
remember that. This isn't a war. This is a crime. --Jingo

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82457

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 17:45 -0700
Message-ID	<D23B0AD7.5F704%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82443

On 10/7/15, 5:28 PM, in article 081020151328490976%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
>>>> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
>>>> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
>>>> versa).
>>> 
>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>> 
>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
> 
> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> something different.   :-\

How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82459

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-08 14:12 +1300
Message-ID	<081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82457

In article <D23B0AD7.5F704%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/15, 5:28 PM, in article 081020151328490976%YourName@YourISP.com,
> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > In article <D23AFAB9.5F6BA%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> > <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> On 10/7/15, 1:29 PM, in article d7ldkjFq0orU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
> >> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2015-10-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> I wouldn't be surprised if Apple comes up with a keyboard at some stage
> >>>> that has the ridiculous "Force Touch" feature - hold down the key for
> >>>> it to repeat, hold down "harder" for it to pop-up a menu (or vice
> >>>> versa).
> >>> 
> >>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
> >> 
> >> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
> >> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
> > 
> > "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> > counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> > different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> > by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> > something different.   :-\
> 
> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?

How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
doughnut??

Mind you, some morons do continually push the elevator buttons or
traffic light pedestrian crossing buttons harder expecting them to
function faster.  :-\

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82462

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 18:32 -0700
Message-ID	<D23B15BE.5F71F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82459

On 10/7/15, 6:12 PM, in article 081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>>> 
>>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
>>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
>>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
>>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
>>> something different.   :-\
>> 
>> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?
> 
> How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
> light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
> colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
> doughnut??

Do you open a file to get to a window?
Do you move a mouse and to point to a file?
Do you touch a sheet of paper once to select it and twice to open it?
Do you press space to get a quick look at something?

If you take these things too literally they make NO sense at all. You have
to accept that the main goal is to use the technology to make an experience
as "clean" and easy to use as you can.

Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
with it. 

> Mind you, some morons do continually push the elevator buttons or
> traffic light pedestrian crossing buttons harder expecting them to
> function faster.  :-\

You mean that does not work? :)

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82488

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-08 18:16 +1300
Message-ID	<081020151816395444%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82462

In article <D23B15BE.5F71F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/15, 6:12 PM, in article 081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com,
> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
> >>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
> >>> 
> >>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> >>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> >>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> >>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> >>> something different.   :-\
> >> 
> >> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?
> > 
> > How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
> > light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
> > colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
> > doughnut??
> 
> Do you open a file to get to a window?
> Do you move a mouse and to point to a file?
> Do you touch a sheet of paper once to select it and twice to open it?
> Do you press space to get a quick look at something?
> 
> If you take these things too literally they make NO sense at all. You have
> to accept that the main goal is to use the technology to make an experience
> as "clean" and easy to use as you can.
> 
> Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
> whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
> It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
> with it. 

But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
the screen or trackpad harder. Just like the ridiculous mutli-finger
gestures, you have to be taught about them and remember them, which
completely defeats the entire purpose of Apple's original user
guidelines (which of course these days they've completely changed
anyway).

The added stupidity of "Force Touch" is that it functions differently
in different places / applications ... and sometimes not at all (which
could lead to many broken sensors).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82489

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-08 01:40 -0400
Message-ID	<081020150140057600%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82488

In article <081020151816395444%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
> > whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
> > It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
> > with it. 
> 
> But it's not intuitive.

yes it is

> No novice user is ever going to try pressing
> the screen or trackpad harder. Just like the ridiculous mutli-finger
> gestures, you have to be taught about them and remember them, which
> completely defeats the entire purpose of Apple's original user
> guidelines (which of course these days they've completely changed
> anyway).

once someone is told, they will.

> The added stupidity of "Force Touch" is that it functions differently
> in different places / applications ... and sometimes not at all (which
> could lead to many broken sensors).

nonsense. the trackpad does not move.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82491

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 06:03 +0000
Message-ID	<d7mfa2F31ejU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#82488

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> In article <D23B15BE.5F71F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/7/15, 6:12 PM, in article 081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com,
>> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>>>>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
>>>>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
>>>>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
>>>>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
>>>>> something different.   :-\
>>>> 
>>>> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?
>>> 
>>> How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
>>> light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
>>> colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
>>> doughnut??
>> 
>> Do you open a file to get to a window?
>> Do you move a mouse and to point to a file?
>> Do you touch a sheet of paper once to select it and twice to open it?
>> Do you press space to get a quick look at something?
>> 
>> If you take these things too literally they make NO sense at all. You have
>> to accept that the main goal is to use the technology to make an experience
>> as "clean" and easy to use as you can.
>> 
>> Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
>> whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
>> It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
>> with it. 
> 
> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
> the screen or trackpad harder. 

Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
concept at all. 

> Just like the ridiculous mutli-finger
> gestures, 

We get it - anything new is "ridiculous" to you.

> you have to be taught about them and remember them, which
> completely defeats the entire purpose of Apple's original user
> guidelines (which of course these days they've completely changed
> anyway).

Big deal. You see someone pinch to zoom once and you know how to do it.
Nothing complicated about it and it's far easier than remembering menu
commands etc.

> The added stupidity of "Force Touch" is that it functions differently
> in different places / applications ... and sometimes not at all (which
> could lead to many broken sensors).

How many sensors have been broken?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82507

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 08:53 -0700
Message-ID	<D23BDF97.5F7C5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82491

On 10/7/15, 11:03 PM, in article d7mfa2F31ejU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> In article <D23B15BE.5F71F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/15, 6:12 PM, in article 081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com,
>>> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from the
>>>>>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
>>>>>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
>>>>>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
>>>>>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
>>>>>> something different.   :-\
>>>>> 
>>>>> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?
>>>> 
>>>> How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
>>>> light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
>>>> colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
>>>> doughnut??
>>> 
>>> Do you open a file to get to a window?
>>> Do you move a mouse and to point to a file?
>>> Do you touch a sheet of paper once to select it and twice to open it?
>>> Do you press space to get a quick look at something?
>>> 
>>> If you take these things too literally they make NO sense at all. You have
>>> to accept that the main goal is to use the technology to make an experience
>>> as "clean" and easy to use as you can.
>>> 
>>> Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
>>> whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
>>> It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
>>> with it. 
>> 
>> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
>> the screen or trackpad harder.
> 
> Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
> concept at all. 

I worked in computer labs when mice first started becoming popular. Macs had
them and our UNIX stations had them - even light-based ones, which confused
people so I put up a sign saying "UNIX mice have no balls". My boss had me
that that down for some reason. :)

But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen
move? And why would I click its left button to do one thing and its right
button to do another? How do I know which is which? Heck, even a few years
ago I was teaching intro classes, largely to seniors, and once I introduced
"right click" from then on if I said "click such-and-such" people would ask
"left click or right"? I quickly learned to note that "click" means "left
click". Even that got confusing for the left handed students who had mice
buttons swapped to work better for them - so it became "left click" is your
primary click and "right click" is your secondary click... which might be
your left if you are left handed. Sorry, folks, I know that is odd but you
have to get used to hearing "right click" to mean that.

None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.

I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.

>> Just like the ridiculous mutli-finger gestures,
> 
> We get it - anything new is "ridiculous" to you.

I have seen videos of cats and frogs figuring out the basics of a touch
screen. I suspect most humans can do a bit more. :)

Still, I can see where you need to be careful with what one finger vs. two
vs. three mean. I have an ancient iPod Touch and mostly just use one finger,
except for pinch and zoom.

>> you have to be taught about them and remember them, which
>> completely defeats the entire purpose of Apple's original user
>> guidelines (which of course these days they've completely changed
>> anyway).
> 
> Big deal. You see someone pinch to zoom once and you know how to do it.
> Nothing complicated about it and it's far easier than remembering menu
> commands etc.

Pinch and zoom are about as easy as you can get... but it does matter if
there is a delay.

>> The added stupidity of "Force Touch" is that it functions differently
>> in different places / applications ... and sometimes not at all (which
>> could lead to many broken sensors).
> 
> How many sensors have been broken?

I am sure he has a list.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82569

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-10-09 09:06 +1300
Message-ID	<091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#82507

In article <D23BDF97.5F7C5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/15, 11:03 PM, in article d7mfa2F31ejU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >> In article <D23B15BE.5F71F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> >> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >>> On 10/7/15, 6:12 PM, in article 081020151412288126%YourName@YourISP.com,
> >>> "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Actually sounds pretty cool... though I would want it reversed from
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> description. Less likely to accidently repeat that way.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> "Force Touch" is a ridiculous invention ... not only is it
> >>>>>> counter-intuitive (why would you push something harder and expect a
> >>>>>> different result??) it now encourages kids and numbnuts to break things
> >>>>>> by going around pushing things harder to try and get them to do
> >>>>>> something different.   :-\
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> How much experience do you have with the new "3D Touch" devices?
> >>>> 
> >>>> How is pushing something harder not counter-intuitive?? Do you push the
> >>>> light switch harder to make the lights go brighter or even change
> >>>> colour?? Does chewing a piece of cheese harder suddenly turn it into a
> >>>> doughnut??
> >>> 
> >>> Do you open a file to get to a window?
> >>> Do you move a mouse and to point to a file?
> >>> Do you touch a sheet of paper once to select it and twice to open it?
> >>> Do you press space to get a quick look at something?
> >>> 
> >>> If you take these things too literally they make NO sense at all. You have
> >>> to accept that the main goal is to use the technology to make an
> >>> experience
> >>> as "clean" and easy to use as you can.
> >>> 
> >>> Pressing a bit harder is sort of like Quick Look or a contextual menu...
> >>> whichever makes more sense. Pressing harder again is like double clicking.
> >>> It makes a lot of sense to me though I admit I have no personal experience
> >>> with it. 
> >> 
> >> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
> >> the screen or trackpad harder.
> > 
> > Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
> > concept at all. 
> 
> I worked in computer labs when mice first started becoming popular. Macs had
> them and our UNIX stations had them - even light-based ones, which confused
> people so I put up a sign saying "UNIX mice have no balls". My boss had me
> that that down for some reason. :)
> 
> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing 
> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen move?

It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
to get efficient at it.



>  And why would I click its left button to do one thing and its right
> button to do another? 

Which is exactly why the Mac only had (and only needed) one button mice
for years ... they still only need one button.



> 
> None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.
> 
> I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.

Pushing something harder to make it do something different is *not* in
any remote sense intuitive. It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most
of the silly multi-finger gestures) - you don't push light switches
harder, pushing hard on glass is dangerous, etc. That's why people
don't know about them and have to be told. Intuitive means you don't
have to be told, you work it out naturally.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82654

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 17:18 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#82569

On 10/8/15, 1:06 PM, in article 091020150906060868%YourName@YourISP.com,
"Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

...
>>>> But it's not intuitive. No novice user is ever going to try pressing
>>>> the screen or trackpad harder.
>>> 
>>> Bull. They have only have to see it once to get it. It's not a complex
>>> concept at all.
>> 
>> I worked in computer labs when mice first started becoming popular. Macs had
>> them and our UNIX stations had them - even light-based ones, which confused
>> people so I put up a sign saying "UNIX mice have no balls". My boss had me
>> that that down for some reason. :)
>> 
>> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
>> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
>> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen move?
> 
> It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> to get efficient at it.

The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive... people
figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click. I have
seen people be quite confused by that.

>> And why would I click its left button to do one thing and its right
>> button to do another?
> 
> Which is exactly why the Mac only had (and only needed) one button mice
> for years ... they still only need one button.

Sure. But contextual menus are good.... and the middle button ALSO works to
do still more. Then you have option clicking. Lots of different things which
are not intuitive.

>> None of that is "intuitive" until you get used to a computer.
>> 
>> I suspect 3D Touch / Force Touch is much the same.
> 
> Pushing something harder to make it do something different is *not* in
> any remote sense intuitive.

When I draw with pencil or charcoal if I push harder I get a different
result. If I am playing the piano, different pressure causes different
results. If I am driving different pressure effects both the gas and brake
pedals. 

And as I said above, the idea on a computer UI is not to make it just like
something else. In the physical world I have never opened a folder to get to
a window, nor used a menu of any sort to rename a file. I have never grabbed
a mouse to move other than the mouse.

> It's highly counter-intuitive (as are most of the silly multi-finger gestures)
> - you don't push light switches harder, pushing hard on glass is dangerous,
> etc. 

What dangers do you think people will experience from getting to a
contextual menu or getting a quick look at content?

> That's why people don't know about them and have to be told. Intuitive
> means you don't have to be told, you work it out naturally.

You did not learn to type naturally. Should computers not have keyboards?

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#82656

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-10-08 20:25 -0400
Message-ID	<081020152025017275%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to	#82654

In article <D23C55CE.5F95A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> >> But I digress. When users who were used to just a keyboard first were
> >> confronted with a mouse it was not "intuitive". Why would I move this thing
> >> on the desk, which you oddly call a mouse, to make an arrow on a screen
> >> move?
> > 
> > It is intuitive. People, even little kids, work that out within seconds
> > without needing a manual or explanation, although some may take longer
> > to get efficient at it.
> 
> The idea of the mouse moving the mouse pointer is fairly intuitive... people
> figure that out. But when to click vs. double-click vs. right-click. I have
> seen people be quite confused by that.

now they are. when mice first came out, they weren't at all intuitive.

apple even included a mouse tutorial with early macs.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwammW5syw&t=118>

<http://gizmodo.com/heres-how-a-macintosh-tutorial-taught-people-to-use-
a-m-1583366354>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →

csiph-web

Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Contents

#82317

#82334

#82356

#82365

#82427

#82443

#82447

#82449

#82476

#82487

#82457

#82459

#82462

#82488

#82489

#82491

#82507

#82569

#82654

#82656