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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #143210

Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2024-01-27 23:36, Sten deJoode wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 19:59:39 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
>>> 1. The few Android users who are forced to pay for MMS want to use
>>>      Apple's messaging servers because Apple goes through the Internet.
>>
>> Easy solution: buy Apple products.  That's how Apple pay for those servers.
> 
> You have to understand something very basic that you don't seem to realize.
> If they're on Android, they don't want to be on iOS.

But they want what iOS has...

...without be willing to PAY for it.

> 
> That goes without saying that nobody on Android wants to using an iPhone.
> What they want is to send media (like photos) over MMS, sans extra fees.

And they'll cheat to do it.

> 
>>> 2. The reason has nothing to do with Apple's messaging servers.
>>>      Apple's servers are the penalty for being able to send free MMS.
>>
>> "Free"?  People have to pay for their cellco / internet services.
> 
> You don't understand the carrier pricing model for those who are charged
> per MMS image but they're not charged per SMS message (mostly in Europe).
> 
> They usually use WhatsApp which is exactly the same as Apple Messages for
> their purpose of making MMS images free of the carrier's per-image charges.

And requires a login to WhatsApp's servers.

> 
>> Apple's servers are definitely not a "penalty" - they are added value
>> for Apple clients when they buy Apple products.
> 
> The advantage of Apple Messages over WhatsApp for Android users in Europe
> who pay extra for MMS images is the number of people logging into Apple's
> servers for Messages reaches something like 15% of the world population -
> which is different people than the number who log into WhatsApp servers.

And that should be Apple's problem... ...why?

> 
>>> 3. The reason is Apple has something like 15% of the world market
>>>      (which is more than WhatsApp has, for example), so they want
>>>      to use the messaging servers that have the most penetration.
>>
>> Irrelevant, alas.
> 
> Actually that's the whole point, which you don't seem to understand.
> Most iPhone users are logged into Apple's Internet messaging service.

Yup. So?

> 
> Essentially if they're an iPhone user, they're logged into the net.
> Every instant of every day of their entire lives until they're dead.
> 
> That's the beauty of the Apple ecosystem (which treats the iPhone as a dumb
> terminal in terms of most of its FaceTime, Messages & iCloud capabilities).

Nope.

> 
> The Apple server is what those Android users who are charged per MMS image
> want to take advantage of because it allows their images to reach Apple's
> customers for free.

Right. Stealing.

> 
> It's no different than how they use WhatsApp where Apple's 15% or so of the
> world market allows them to reach those who are not subscribed to WhatsApp.
>   
>> Apple sell products and with those products provide backbone services
>> for their customers.  Messages (iMessage) is part of that offering.
> 
> Android users who are charged per MMS image who want to reach Apple users
> who are not on WhatsApp make use of the fact the iPhone is a dumb terminal.

There are a lot of apps on my phone that deny that "fact".

> 
> iPhone <---> Apple Internet Servers <---> Android
> 
> These Android users want to use Apple servers to get to that dumb terminal
> with their MMS messages because doing so avoids their carrier per-MMS fees.
> 
> They don't want the iPhone (otherwise they wouldn't be on Android, silly).
> They just want to use the Internet server like they already use WhatsApp.
> 
>> Another company creating ways to circumvent the intent of these services
>> is, at base, stealing and Apple have all rights to block it (in effect
>> fix their lax implementation) and if Android users don't like it well,
>> tough potatoes.
> 
> Once RCS comes out, there will be probably be no need for Android users
> (who are charged per MMS attachments who want to reach non-WhatsApp users)
> to want to reach iPhone users (who use an iPhone as a dumb terminal).
> 
> This: iPhone <---> Apple Internet Servers <---> Android
> Gets replaced by this: iPhone <---> Carrier RCS Servers <---> Android

And those carriers will be providing those servers for free, will they?

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Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Patrick <patrick@oleary.com> - 2024-01-27 02:00 -0600
  Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-01-27 09:11 +0100
    Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-27 16:02 +0000
      Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Nick Charles <the.thin@man> - 2024-01-27 11:51 -0500
        Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-01-27 14:43 -0500
          Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-27 20:21 +0000
          Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-27 15:28 -0500
            Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2024-01-28 09:54 +1300
              Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-27 23:01 +0000
            Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-27 23:00 +0000
            Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-27 19:59 -0500
              Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-28 02:36 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-28 09:44 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-28 21:40 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-30 08:59 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-30 13:22 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-30 12:15 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-30 15:54 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-30 15:51 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-31 03:17 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-30 21:53 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-31 15:35 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-31 17:32 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-31 14:56 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-31 23:01 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-31 18:52 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-01 02:03 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-01-31 22:56 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-31 19:05 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-01 02:06 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-01-31 22:02 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-31 19:41 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-01 05:25 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-02-01 01:06 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-01 15:51 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-02-02 13:13 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-03 01:07 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Sten deJoode <StendeJood@nospam.net> - 2024-02-03 05:31 -0500
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-02-03 17:16 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-28 09:54 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-01-29 02:43 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-29 11:11 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-01-29 20:35 +0000
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-01-29 13:30 -0800
                Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-01-30 09:29 +0100
      Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Gabriel Coan <coan.gabriel@icloud.com> - 2024-01-28 12:16 -0500
        Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2024-01-28 14:46 -0500
          Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-01-29 02:55 +0000
      Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-01-30 09:32 +0100

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