Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,misc.phone.mobile.iphone Subject: Re: Apple banned some of its customers' Macs for using Beeper Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 09:54:22 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 109 Message-ID: References: <0GhtN.256280$7sbb.6674@fx16.iad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 17:54:23 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="f7014aa81a8939d03b3688550ef66d82"; logging-data="46170"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/QmIMMcKrIUycp1N1a+T9KpI2oYcjBmRE=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:cQG7owYRug5HaoCNER6781gtPSc= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-CA Xref: csiph.com comp.sys.mac.system:143210 misc.phone.mobile.iphone:184308 On 2024-01-27 23:36, Sten deJoode wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 19:59:39 -0500, Alan Browne wrote: > >>> 1. The few Android users who are forced to pay for MMS want to use >>> Apple's messaging servers because Apple goes through the Internet. >> >> Easy solution: buy Apple products. That's how Apple pay for those servers. > > You have to understand something very basic that you don't seem to realize. > If they're on Android, they don't want to be on iOS. But they want what iOS has... ...without be willing to PAY for it. > > That goes without saying that nobody on Android wants to using an iPhone. > What they want is to send media (like photos) over MMS, sans extra fees. And they'll cheat to do it. > >>> 2. The reason has nothing to do with Apple's messaging servers. >>> Apple's servers are the penalty for being able to send free MMS. >> >> "Free"? People have to pay for their cellco / internet services. > > You don't understand the carrier pricing model for those who are charged > per MMS image but they're not charged per SMS message (mostly in Europe). > > They usually use WhatsApp which is exactly the same as Apple Messages for > their purpose of making MMS images free of the carrier's per-image charges. And requires a login to WhatsApp's servers. > >> Apple's servers are definitely not a "penalty" - they are added value >> for Apple clients when they buy Apple products. > > The advantage of Apple Messages over WhatsApp for Android users in Europe > who pay extra for MMS images is the number of people logging into Apple's > servers for Messages reaches something like 15% of the world population - > which is different people than the number who log into WhatsApp servers. And that should be Apple's problem... ...why? > >>> 3. The reason is Apple has something like 15% of the world market >>> (which is more than WhatsApp has, for example), so they want >>> to use the messaging servers that have the most penetration. >> >> Irrelevant, alas. > > Actually that's the whole point, which you don't seem to understand. > Most iPhone users are logged into Apple's Internet messaging service. Yup. So? > > Essentially if they're an iPhone user, they're logged into the net. > Every instant of every day of their entire lives until they're dead. > > That's the beauty of the Apple ecosystem (which treats the iPhone as a dumb > terminal in terms of most of its FaceTime, Messages & iCloud capabilities). Nope. > > The Apple server is what those Android users who are charged per MMS image > want to take advantage of because it allows their images to reach Apple's > customers for free. Right. Stealing. > > It's no different than how they use WhatsApp where Apple's 15% or so of the > world market allows them to reach those who are not subscribed to WhatsApp. > >> Apple sell products and with those products provide backbone services >> for their customers. Messages (iMessage) is part of that offering. > > Android users who are charged per MMS image who want to reach Apple users > who are not on WhatsApp make use of the fact the iPhone is a dumb terminal. There are a lot of apps on my phone that deny that "fact". > > iPhone <---> Apple Internet Servers <---> Android > > These Android users want to use Apple servers to get to that dumb terminal > with their MMS messages because doing so avoids their carrier per-MMS fees. > > They don't want the iPhone (otherwise they wouldn't be on Android, silly). > They just want to use the Internet server like they already use WhatsApp. > >> Another company creating ways to circumvent the intent of these services >> is, at base, stealing and Apple have all rights to block it (in effect >> fix their lax implementation) and if Android users don't like it well, >> tough potatoes. > > Once RCS comes out, there will be probably be no need for Android users > (who are charged per MMS attachments who want to reach non-WhatsApp users) > to want to reach iPhone users (who use an iPhone as a dumb terminal). > > This: iPhone <---> Apple Internet Servers <---> Android > Gets replaced by this: iPhone <---> Carrier RCS Servers <---> Android And those carriers will be providing those servers for free, will they?