Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks?

From	Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.portables, comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc
Subject	Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks?
Date	2020-11-14 23:20 +0000
Organization	Miskatonic U
Message-ID	<slrnrr0pib.2i4v.g.kreme@ProMini.lan> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> <slrnrr02p6.prk.g.kreme@ProMini.lan> <ceUrH.308904$1a1.122503@fx18.iad> <slrnrr08os.1j07.g.kreme@ProMini.lan> <D5WrH.797928$eN2.187141@fx47.iad>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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In message <D5WrH.797928$eN2.187141@fx47.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2020-11-14 13:34, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <ceUrH.308904$1a1.122503@fx18.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2020-11-14 11:51, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <aSRrH.889498$AN2.12718@fx46.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-11-13 19:54, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>> In message <HhCrH.320247$GQ4.306084@fx02.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2020-11-13 15:20, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <0VyrH.145047$Ml5.103301@fx24.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2020-11-12 14:21, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <uOfrH.514768$RY8.72367@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
>>>>>>>>>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Asll we know is "unified memory" which is meaningless marketing mumble
>>>>>>>>>>> jumble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is marketing speak to a degree.  Per a Wikipedia article[1] the SOC
>>>>>>>>> uses 3733 MHz LPDDR4X spec'd SDRAM as an included component within the
>>>>>>>>> SOC.  Still needs a memory manager though that may be more deeply
>>>>>>>>> integrated in the CPU; likely has DMA of some kind, esp. for the GPU,
>>>>>>>>> but other I/O as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] that source has no reference so I declare escape clause.  But it's a
>>>>>>>>> good bet if someone has seen that in System Info declared as such on the
>>>>>>>>> many, many developer systems out there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What many many developer systems out there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thousands...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nonsense.   [1] <------
>>>>
>>>>> Really.  Even my lowly Pascal compiler developer got one and very
>>>>> quickly.  It was underwhelming in the sense that the new compiler was
>>>>> tested and ready in mere days.
>>>>
>>>> Again, the DTK Is NOT the M1 mac. At all.
>> 
>>> Yeah, resolved in prior posts.
>> 
>>> I wasn't being specific to the processor - only that Apple put out
>>> thousands of transition developer kits.
>> 
>> You were talking out the unified memory in the M1 chip and comparing it
>> to the DTK.

> I took your objection to be the word "Thousands".  That was me 
> referencing the number of dev kits.  Not what specific processor was in 
> there.

>>>>> Simplest path: spec an existing type that is in the fabs capability and
>>>>> meets the spec.
>>>>
>>>> Are you channeling JF?
>> 
>>> Not at all.
>> 
>> Seems like it. The M1 is not an "existing type" it is a new chip
>> designed by Apple and made to their design. it is not being assembled out
>> of other bits.

> Those elements can come from different designers(companies) with the 
> data for the design transferred to Apple to integrate into their overall 
> design by specification.

No, I don't think that is correct. The SoC is entirely Apple design.

> Apple claim "16 billion transistors" for the M1.  That can't possibly 
> represent the entire CPU + 8 GB or 16 GB of memory.  (8 GiB would take a 
> minimum of 64B transistors for a DRAM and 6 times that for SRAM plus all 
> the interface logic (address decode, etc.)).

The 16 billion transistors is for the CPUs specifically, not for the
entire M1. but how the RAM is integrated into the Soc? Sure, maybe those
components are sourced separately..

> So, could be integrated as separate chips onto 1 carrier:

> Looking at: 
> https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz3ljssi2_large.jpg

> That looks like 2 memory modules integrated onto the same carrier as the 
> processor portion to the left.

It does. We'll know more when someone scrapes an M1 and takes an
electron microscope to it, I suppose.

> IAC: we'll see in an M1 Mac if the memory "spec" is listed in the system 
> information.  I look forward to your screenshot.

Next month.


-- 
GRAMMAR IS NOT A TIME OF WASTE Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF10

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Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 14:46 -0600
  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 12:57 -0800
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:45 +0000
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:00 -0600
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 21:06 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 15:09 +1300
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 15:27 -0800
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:50 +1300
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-11 20:07 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 20:15 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 13:34 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:20 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:15 +0000
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:43 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 12:47 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:22 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:40 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:00 -0500
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 02:13 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 06:30 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 15:43 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 16:42 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 13:16 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-13 19:19 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:18 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-13 16:58 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:51 +0000
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:45 -0500
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:27 -0500
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:56 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:54 +0000
  Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-11 22:22 +0000
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-11 14:39 -0800
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:48 +0000
    Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 16:40 -0600
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-11 17:46 -0500
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Tim <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2020-11-11 22:46 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-12 12:39 +1300
        Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-11-11 20:01 -0600
          Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:51 +0000
            Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-12 14:12 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-12 14:21 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 11:56 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 20:20 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-13 15:47 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 00:54 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-13 20:06 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 09:47 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 05:21 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 08:29 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:21 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:40 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:40 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:04 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 13:26 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:48 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 15:50 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:46 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-15 11:56 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 09:47 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 10:43 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 17:25 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-16 15:48 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-16 14:01 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-16 18:53 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-16 21:33 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-17 20:04 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:40 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 13:47 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 14:52 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-14 15:08 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:26 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 22:52 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-15 10:15 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-11-16 09:05 +1300
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-15 08:09 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-11-17 14:42 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 14:04 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 15:41 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-11-14 12:46 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2020-11-14 18:00 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 09:30 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 16:51 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 12:12 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 18:34 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 14:20 -0500
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-14 23:20 +0000
                Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-11-14 19:39 -0500
              Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-13 10:12 +0000
      Re: Who is going to buy the first Arm (M1) MacBooks? Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> - 2020-11-12 14:50 +0000

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