Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense)

From	Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense)
Date	2016-12-12 00:06 +0000
Organization	Subsume Technologies, Inc.
Message-ID	<o2kplo$9p9$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <do_ray_me-8ECE7C.12171409122016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <o2eeg8$r9l$1@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-4C974D.09480710122016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <o2hpb4$272$3@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-2F1BB9.13114311122016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>

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For your reference, records indicate that 
dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> wrote:

> What is the natural state of the free market? That in how things 
> actually are, there is a distortion from some ideal system? OK. But 
> neither in how things are at the moment nor in any *practical* ideal 
> system can we realistically imagine knowing what ultimately happens to 
> our spent money.

Just the opposite these days.  It is more and more possible to share 
detailed information about how systems operate, and especially to be 
transparent about the flow of money through the system.  But some 
people, including the likes of Apple and advertisers, seem to go out 
of their way to be as opaque as possible.  And there is a further 
divergence from a free market by there not being parity competition 
for things like Macs and iOS systems.  Yes, you can get *other 
products* that function in similar ways, but there is nobody in the 
marketplace who can sell you the *technology* that Apple sells you, 
only without all the overhead of being a fashion brand.  Their 
profit margins speak for themselves (when they have to disclose 
them).

> You sure I'm engaged in *this* fallacy? I might be making some other 
> kind of mistake thinking that companies have money to risk sponsoring? 
> Or I might be right that in fact they actually made money in part by 
> advertising their products in non-sponsorship ways.

Nobody has offered any evidence to support those alternatives.  The 
burden is not on me to show that advertising works.  That should be 
the role of the advertisers.  But the best argument that they usually 
can come up with is “if you don’t do it, your competition might do it, 
and if it works you’ll lose out.”  And it *will* work that way, but 
only as long as things don’t escalate.  When there are too many 
participants, an economic paradox occurs.  Exploiting it is why Google 
got rich on AdWords.

<https://www.impossiblystupid.com/node/37/?content=the-best-100-google-never-spent>

> But I am having a little difficulty understanding your argument about 
> who pays and how people should pay (the "proper"?) for what they 
> value. It is easier to find faults with systems than to propose 
> alternatives and I sympathise.

Systems get geared to eliminate the alternatives.  Because people 
chasing unhealthy profits will get people paying for a product and 
then *still* try to show them ads (cable TV did it, and now Hulu is 
doing it).  Even Apple press events are used to showcase ads.  None 
of it is difficult to understand, it’s just that very few people 
seem willing to accept a fair trade.  Go find George Carlin’s 
routine on businessmen and laugh while you cry.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 11:45 -0500
  Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-04 17:14 +0000
    Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 13:09 -0500
      Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-04 18:49 +0000
        Re: Port scan defense JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-12-04 16:18 -0500
          Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-04 23:34 +0000
          Re: Port scan defense David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2016-12-04 19:02 -0600
      Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-04 20:00 +0000
        Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 15:17 -0500
          Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-05 17:58 +0000
          Re: Port scan defense Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2016-12-05 14:56 -0500
            Re: Port scan defense John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2016-12-05 13:01 -0800
              Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-05 16:18 -0500
            Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-05 16:18 -0500
              Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-05 23:10 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-05 18:18 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-05 23:34 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-05 18:45 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-06 00:34 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-05 20:11 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-06 04:28 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-06 08:40 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-06 15:17 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-06 11:24 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-12-06 16:56 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-07 12:11 -0500
                Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-08 21:24 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 16:46 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-09 10:39 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alrescha <alrescha@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 13:03 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-10 09:21 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-10 04:36 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-10 19:39 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-10 15:55 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-10 16:05 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-09 12:17 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-09 14:18 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-09 10:46 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-10 20:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-10 09:48 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-10 20:42 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-11 13:11 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-12 00:06 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-12 14:22 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-12 23:41 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-12 18:59 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-13 13:37 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-13 22:03 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-14 21:54 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-14 19:48 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-15 09:02 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-15 21:45 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-16 11:28 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-17 16:06 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-18 10:10 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-18 16:22 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-19 10:05 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-12-19 15:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-12-24 07:00 +1100
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-13 05:35 +0000
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-09 18:03 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-12-09 18:18 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-09 18:27 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-10 09:33 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-10 10:24 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-10 12:02 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-10 12:40 -0500
                Re: Apple Ads (Re: Port scan defense) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-10 12:43 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2016-12-09 07:02 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-09 10:49 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense MistahJohnson <null@example.com> - 2016-12-10 07:07 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2016-12-09 07:03 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-09 10:30 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-09 10:51 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-06 09:30 -0800
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-06 12:38 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.dot.list.at.pl> - 2016-12-06 18:50 +0100
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-06 12:53 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2016-12-09 07:07 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-09 10:30 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-09 11:00 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-09 11:03 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-12-10 17:21 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-10 17:42 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-10 16:53 -0800
                Re: Port scan defense "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-12-10 19:28 -0600
                Re: Port scan defense nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-11 07:36 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-11 02:24 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-12-06 16:46 -0600
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-06 18:51 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-07 07:52 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-09 08:17 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-06 15:20 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-06 18:51 -0500
                Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-07 07:40 +0000
                Re: Port scan defense Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2016-12-09 06:55 -0500
  Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-04 18:44 +0000
    Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 14:23 -0500
      Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-04 19:51 +0000
        Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 15:15 -0500
      Re: Port scan defense JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-12-04 16:23 -0500
        Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 16:36 -0500
          Re: Port scan defense JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-12-04 16:47 -0500
            Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 16:52 -0500
          Re: Port scan defense Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-12-04 23:36 +0000
            Re: Port scan defense Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-12-04 18:51 -0500
        Re: Port scan defense "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-12-04 18:42 -0600

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