Re: Just one!

From	Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.mobile.android, comp.sys.mac.system, alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject	Re: Just one!
Date	2020-11-25 19:07 +0000
Organization	Some absurd concept
Message-ID	<eli$2011251344@qaz.wtf> (permalink)
References	<rph1eq$q76$1@dont-email.me> <231120201723564762%nospam@nospam.invalid> <eli$2011231749@qaz.wtf> <rpm0ro$i8k$1@neodome.net>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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In comp.mobile.android, Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 23:08:57 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:
[stuff]
> Hi Eli,
> 
> Apple is...all about... *Much ado about nothing...*

To my eye, Apple is about stylish computing. It's a niche that they took
a long time to find, but have since nailed down.

> 1. Apple makes what is really a minor technical change (in that designing
> with ARM and fab'ing with TSMC Silicon is no big deal whatsoever
> technically)... 

I would disagree at least partially. Apple running on Intel allowed
binary cross-overs that previously had not been truely possible. Fat
binaries and binary translation are slightly different kettles of fish.

> Other than to Intel, and maybe not to even them, this is a non event.

This is creating work for other companies to continue supporting Apple,
look at the work Docker needs to do. 

In general I believe it is good to have a diversity of hardware and
a diversity of software, as it is good to have a diversity of crops
grown. It creates friction for things that could otherwise break
everything.

> o It's _only_ a huge deal to the Apple cultists who are wowed by bullshit.

Raw benchmark numbers that I've seen show Iphones handily beating the
best Androids in javascript speeds. 

2015 thread with updates in 2017 and 2020 on successive links:

https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-android-in-2015-is-poor/33889
https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-android-in-2015-is-poor/33889/246
https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-android-in-2015-is-poor/33889/270

That suggests Apple has some idea what they are doing with ARM, as all
of those phones are ARM vs ARM.

> There are facts that need to be realized, one of which is that Apple is
> almost all MARKETING and the lowest R&D spend in the entire tech industry. 

I have no idea how accurate that is. Got cites? Cites that are not
Google Groups links?

> Another fact that needs to be realized is that Apple has _never_ in its
> entire history _ever_ made a best-in-class CPU (nobody can find an Apple
> design that they tout which _also_ isn't so badly flawed that it must be
> throttled in a year or that it has huge unpatchable egregious holes).

The more people expect devices to be "secure" while also doing
everything, the more people will be disappointed. Intel's processors
have had their own huge numbers of faults. I don't have any current
knowledge of widespread architecture designs beyond ARM and x86
compatible, but I would expect any such alternatives are also flawed.

> Don't even get me started on how everyone proved Apple has _never_ in the
> entire history of the Mac or iOS ever sufficiently tested the OS (Google,
> for example, _proved_ beyond doubt, the code couldn't possibly have been
> tested for the many (many) many (many) many areas they found lacking. (Such
> that hackers won't even _accept_ Apple zero-day bugs as they have too many
> already.) 

There are zero-days in Google's stuff, too. Software bugs are orthogonal
to processor choice. Most zero-days in software don't rely on the chip
being used to provide the wedge to break things. The chip in question
will determine what binary you need to stuff in the buffer overflow
though. A very specific case that goes back to my "diversity is good"
concerns.

Elijah
------
does not, as a rule, follow google groups links, nor is Usenet authoritative

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Re: Just one! Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2020-11-25 16:30 +0000
  Re: Just one! Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-11-25 19:07 +0000
    Re: Just one! Arlen   Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2020-11-25 21:25 +0000
      Re: Just one! Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-11-25 13:49 -0800

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