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A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008?

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  A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2016-03-12 16:53 -0800
    Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-03-13 14:29 +1300
      Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-13 14:28 -0500
        Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-03-14 09:01 +1300
          Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-03-14 10:24 +1300
            Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-13 16:35 -0500
              Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-03-14 11:51 +1300
                Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-15 07:28 -0500
            Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-03-14 14:20 +1300
              Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-03-14 17:14 +1300
          Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-13 16:34 -0500
    Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-13 15:40 +1100
      Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-13 14:31 -0500
        Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-14 07:13 +1100
          Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-13 16:37 -0500
            Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-03-14 11:51 +1300
            Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-14 13:48 +1100
    Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-03-14 17:22 +0800
      Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-14 17:04 +0000
        Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-03-14 16:13 -0600
        Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-03-15 20:35 +0800
    Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dg <david.goodnow@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 18:49 -0700
      Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dg <david.goodnow@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 19:16 -0700
      Re: A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008? dg <david.goodnow@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 19:27 -0700

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#1185 — A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008?

Hi.

I noticed a client's 15" MacBook Pro responding slowly, locked up with 
Firefox and couldn't kill it, and shut down. Even booting up after doing 
a force shut down with the power button was slow. I decided to check the 
internal HDD with SMARTReporter v2.7.3 (green and pass results, but 
didn't trust them) with its old smartctl version since I couldn't find a 
precompiled build that would work in an updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 
(Leopard) (tried http://builds.smartmontools.org/'s oldest and newest 
daily builds: "Operation could not be completed. 
(com.apple.installer.pagecontroller error -1.) -- Couldn't open 
'smartmontools-6.5...pkg" (is there a compiled build that exist?). Is 
short test passed, but its long test failed as shown below:


smartctl 5.41 2011-04-06 r3314 [i386-apple-darwin9.8.0] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Hitachi Travelstar 5K250
Device Model:     Hitachi HTS542520K9SA00
Serial Number:    080729BB2D10WHGMxxxx
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000cca 532c8fe94
Firmware Version: BBDAC3GP
User Capacity:    200,049,647,616 bytes [200 GB]
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 3f
Local Time is:    Sat Mar 12 15:33:26 2016 PST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00)	Offline data collection activity
					was never started.
					Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      ( 121)	The previous self-test completed 
having
					the read element of the test failed.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: 		(  645) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: 			 (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
					Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
					Suspend Offline collection upon new
					command.
					Offline surface scan supported.
					Self-test supported.
					No Conveyance Self-test supported.
					Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003)	Saves SMART data before entering
					power-saving mode.
					Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01)	Error logging supported.
					General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: 	 (  96) minutes.
SCT capabilities: 	       (0x003d)	SCT Status supported.
					SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
					SCT Feature Control supported.
					SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE 
UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   099   099   062    Pre-fail 
Always       -       196608
   2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   100   100   040    Pre-fail 
Offline      -       0
   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   243   243   033    Pre-fail 
Always       -       1
   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   095   095   000    Old_age 
Always       -       9068
   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000b   100   100   067    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
   8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   100   100   040    Pre-fail 
Offline      -       0
   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   067   067   000    Old_age 
Always       -       14813
  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   060    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age 
Always       -       4024
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       8591638686
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   069   069   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       317269
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   189   189   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       29 (Min/Max 16/49)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       0
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       1
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age 
Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       0
223 Load_Retry_Count        0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always 
       -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 16 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
	CR = Command Register [HEX]
	FR = Features Register [HEX]
	SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
	SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
	CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
	CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
	DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
	DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
	ER = Error register [HEX]
	ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was 
active or idle.

   After command completion occurred, registers were:
   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:30.400  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:26.300  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT

Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was 
active or idle.

   After command completion occurred, registers were:
   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:26.300  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was 
active or idle.

   After command completion occurred, registers were:
   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
   60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was 
active or idle.

   After command completion occurred, registers were:
   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
   60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
   61 10 b8 58 c2 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  WRITE FPDMA QUEUED

Error 12 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 4750 hours (197 days + 22 
hours)
   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was 
active or idle.

   After command completion occurred, registers were:
   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
   40 51 10 38 fa 06 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x0006fa38 = 457272

   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:29.600  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:25.500  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:21.400  READ DMA EXT
   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:17.400  READ DMA EXT
   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:17.300  READ LOG EXT

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining 
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       90%     14811 
      33621728
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     14811 
      -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      2408 
      -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
  SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
     1        0        0  Not_testing
     2        0        0  Not_testing
     3        0        0  Not_testing
     4        0        0  Not_testing
     5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
   After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.


What do you think? Thank you in advance. :)
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#1186

In article <aOadnUjki59kJHnLnZ2dnUU7-TOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> 
> ... a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008

2008?!? "Very old"?!?

Young whipper-snappers these days, don't know they're well off. Some of
us are still using Macs from pre-2000 ... and we have to walk 50 miles
through the snow in bare feet just to get to our computer desks!  ;-)




> Hi.
> 
> I noticed a client's 15" MacBook Pro responding slowly, locked up with 
> Firefox and couldn't kill it, and shut down. Even booting up after doing 
> a force shut down with the power button was slow. I decided to check the 
> internal HDD with SMARTReporter v2.7.3 (green and pass results, but 
> didn't trust them) with its old smartctl version since I couldn't find a 
> precompiled build that would work in an updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 
> (Leopard) (tried http://builds.smartmontools.org/'s oldest and newest 
> daily builds: "Operation could not be completed. 
> (com.apple.installer.pagecontroller error -1.) -- Couldn't open 
> 'smartmontools-6.5...pkg" (is there a compiled build that exist?). Is 
> short test passed, but its long test failed as shown below:
<snip>

Like most things labelled as "smart", the "SMART" technology inside
*some* disk drives is pretty useless and dumb. If it's a "very old"
drive, does it even have SMART technology in it??

First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
included with the OS on every Mac.

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#1188

In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
...
> First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> included with the OS on every Mac.

Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac 
HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from 
it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is 
doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during 
this.  I'll let it run for now. :(
-- 
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#1190

In article <w5adnRfPhozmInjLnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> ...
> > First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> > see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> > around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> > included with the OS on every Mac.
> 
> Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac 
> HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from 
> it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is 
> doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during 
> this.  I'll let it run for now. :(

If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
needs rebooting.

If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
longer supplies proper install media!)

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#1192

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <w5adnRfPhozmInjLnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> > In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > > First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> > > see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> > > around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> > > included with the OS on every Mac.
> > 
> > Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac
> > HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from
> > it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is
> > doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during
> > this.  I'll let it run for now. :(
> 
> If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
> needs rebooting.

That is probably the wrong explanation.

Verify Disk while booted from the volume being verified will typically
result in what appears to be a complete system freeze, because anything
attempting to write to the startup volume will be blocked. The block is
released once the verify is complete. Let it run.

> If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
> it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
> problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
> drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
> longer supplies proper install media!)

They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
download it.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#1194

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
...
> They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
> booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

> If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
> download it.

Does Mac OS X v10.5.8 even have those or is that in the newer versions?
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#1196

Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
> wrote: ...
> > They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
> > booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.
> 
> > If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
> > download it.
> 
> Does Mac OS X v10.5.8 even have those or is that in the newer versions?

Newer. Your Name was complaining about the elimination of install media
in recent OS X versions, which started with 10.7 (Lion). The recovery
partition was introduced at the same time.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#1204

In alt.comp.periphs.hdd David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:

> > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
> > wrote: ...
> > > They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
> > > booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.
> > 
> > > If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
> > > download it.
> > 
> > Does Mac OS X v10.5.8 even have those or is that in the newer versions?

> Newer. Your Name was complaining about the elimination of install media
> in recent OS X versions, which started with 10.7 (Lion). The recovery
> partition was introduced at the same time.

Thanks. :)
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#1198

In article <1mk3j6c.1sc31lepzy1a2N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
<dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > In article <w5adnRfPhozmInjLnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
> > <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> > > In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> > > > see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> > > > around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> > > > included with the OS on every Mac.
> > > 
> > > Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac
> > > HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from
> > > it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is
> > > doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during
> > > this.  I'll let it run for now. :(
> > 
> > If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
> > needs rebooting.
> 
> That is probably the wrong explanation.
> 
> Verify Disk while booted from the volume being verified will typically
> result in what appears to be a complete system freeze, because anything
> attempting to write to the startup volume will be blocked. The block is
> released once the verify is complete. Let it run.
> 
> > If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
> > it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
> > problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
> > drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
> > longer supplies proper install media!)
> 
> They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
> booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If the drive is completely dead, that's of zero use. Even if it's not
completely dead, why would any sane person trust using an installer on
an already dodgy disk??



> If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
> download it.

If you don't have an internet connection or your internet is flakey /
datacapped, then you're screwed ... all for the cost of putting a $10
bootable USB stick with a full OS installer on it in the box. Instead
you have to go along to the local Apple repair centre and get them to
re-install the software at $100 per hour.   :-\

(Yes, you can backup a downloaded installer, but first you have to
download it, plus I'm talking about more normal people who don't know
these things, rather than full-on computer nerds.)

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#1200

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In article <1mk3j6c.1sc31lepzy1a2N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
> <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > > In article <w5adnRfPhozmInjLnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
> > > <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> > > > In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > > First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> > > > > see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> > > > > around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> > > > > included with the OS on every Mac.
> > > > 
> > > > Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac
> > > > HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from
> > > > it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is
> > > > doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during
> > > > this.  I'll let it run for now. :(
> > > 
> > > If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
> > > needs rebooting.
> > 
> > That is probably the wrong explanation.
> > 
> > Verify Disk while booted from the volume being verified will typically
> > result in what appears to be a complete system freeze, because anything
> > attempting to write to the startup volume will be blocked. The block is
> > released once the verify is complete. Let it run.
> > 
> > > If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
> > > it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
> > > problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
> > > drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
> > > longer supplies proper install media!)
> > 
> > They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
> > booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.
> 
> If the drive is completely dead, that's of zero use.

That's a moot point. If the drive is completely dead, Disk Utility is of
no help anwyay.

> Even if it's not completely dead, why would any sane person trust using an
> installer on an already dodgy disk??

If the problem is merely file system corruption (which is all that Disk
Utility can attempt to fix), then the recovery partition should be fine,
because it is not mounted in normal operation of the system.

If the disk is physically faulty in some way, Disk Utlity may not even
detect it. Disk Utility does NOT do any kind of full disk check (apart
from SMART, as reported by the drive). DU just verifies and/or repairs
directory structures, and possibly partition structures.

> > If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
> > download it.
> 
> If you don't have an internet connection or your internet is flakey /
> datacapped, then you're screwed ...

Those in that position would be wise to plan ahead and have a Time
Machine backup (which if made using a directly connected drive is
bootable into a backup of the recovery partition), or a clone backup
which can be booted, or other solutions such as having a bootable OS X
installer they made themselves, or an installation of OS X on an
external drive.

> all for the cost of putting a $10 bootable USB stick with a full OS
> installer on it in the box.

An OS installer in the box with the computer would be of limited use for
Disk Utility, assuming the user is in the habit of upgrading their
operating system (which is true for the majority of Mac users in recent
years). An older Disk Utility should not be used to repair a volume
containng a newer OS X version.

The OS itself is no longer distributed physically, since Apple tried
selling a USB stick version of Lion (2011) and not enough people
bothered with it. They went download-only from Mountain Lion (2012).

I appreciate the fact that OS X upgrades have been free starting with
Mavericks (2013), which wouldn't be possible if Apple insisted on
supplying physical media for the shrinking proportion of Mac users who
wanted it.

> Instead you have to go along to the local Apple repair centre and get them
> to re-install the software at $100 per hour.   :-\

What, no backup?

I do see one hole in the plan: those who chose to use a solution like
Apple's Time Capsule (or some other networked storage) to do Time
Machine backups, and don't have decent Internet, and didn't plan ahead
by having another bootable device. They have a backup but no way to
restore it.

In that case, they will have to go and visit a friend with decent
Internet, or an Apple Store (if available), or pay someone if no other
options remain.

> (Yes, you can backup a downloaded installer, but first you have to
> download it, plus I'm talking about more normal people who don't know
> these things, rather than full-on computer nerds.)

I regularly deal with "normal people", and the most important thing I
try to get them to understand is the need for a backup of their
computer.

If they don't have one and their main drive completely dies, then how to
run Disk Utility is well down the list of problems.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#1193

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> In article <w5adnRfPhozmInjLnZ2dnUU7-YHNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> > In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > > First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
> > > see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
> > > around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
> > > included with the OS on every Mac.
> > 
> > Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac 
> > HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from 
> > it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is 
> > doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during 
> > this.  I'll let it run for now. :(

> If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
> needs rebooting.

Actually, it came back after I checked again many minutes later. It said 
OK. I decided to rerun it to see what happens and it didn't get stuck 
like earlier. Weird. Anyways, pass results again.


> If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
> it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
> problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
> drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
> longer supplies proper install media!)

I guess I will make a bootable media for it. Does it have to be from 
Apple or can it be from any disk checkers? Do Linux bootable medias 
check Journal HFS+?
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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#1187

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote

> Hi.

Lo.

> I noticed a client's 15" MacBook Pro responding slowly, locked up with 
> Firefox and couldn't kill it, and shut down. Even booting up after doing a 
> force shut down with the power button was slow. I decided to check the 
> internal HDD with SMARTReporter v2.7.3 (green and pass results, but didn't 
> trust them) with its old smartctl version since I couldn't find a 
> precompiled build that would work in an updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 (Leopard) 
> (tried http://builds.smartmontools.org/'s oldest and newest daily builds: 
> "Operation could not be completed. (com.apple.installer.pagecontroller 
> error -1.) -- Couldn't open 'smartmontools-6.5...pkg" (is there a compiled 
> build that exist?). Is short test passed, but its long test failed as 
> shown below:

> smartctl 5.41 2011-04-06 r3314 [i386-apple-darwin9.8.0] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family:     Hitachi Travelstar 5K250
> Device Model:     Hitachi HTS542520K9SA00
> Serial Number:    080729BB2D10WHGMxxxx
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 000cca 532c8fe94
> Firmware Version: BBDAC3GP
> User Capacity:    200,049,647,616 bytes [200 GB]
> Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is:   8
> ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 3f
> Local Time is:    Sat Mar 12 15:33:26 2016 PST
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
> was never started.
> Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
> Self-test execution status:      ( 121) The previous self-test completed 
> having
> the read element of the test failed.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: (  645) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> No Conveyance Self-test supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
> power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
> General Purpose Logging supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: (   2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: (  96) minutes.
> SCT capabilities:        (0x003d) SCT Status supported.
> SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
> SCT Feature Control supported.
> SCT Data Table supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED 
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   099   099   062    Pre-fail 
>        -       196608
>   2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   100   100   040    Pre-fail 
> ne      -       0
>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   243   243   033    Pre-fail 
>        -       1
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   095   095   000    Old_age 
>        -       9068
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail 
>        -       0
>   7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000b   100   100   067    Pre-fail 
>        -       0
>   8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   100   100   040    Pre-fail 
> ne      -       0
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   067   067   000    Old_age 
>        -       14813
>  10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   060    Pre-fail 
>        -       0
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age 
>        -       4024
> 191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 8591638686

Shit, that is very high indeed. Shouldn’t be the problem tho.

> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   069   069   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 317269
> 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   189   189   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 29 (Min/Max 16/49)
> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 0
> 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 0
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 1

That might be the problem, it may be retrying endlessly on that bad sector.

> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age 
> ne      -       0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 0
> 223 Load_Retry_Count        0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always - 
> 0

Otherwise all the rest are fine.

> SMART Error Log Version: 1
> ATA Error Count: 16 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
> CR = Command Register [HEX]
> FR = Features Register [HEX]
> SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
> SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
> CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
> CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
> DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
> DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
> ER = Error register [HEX]
> ST = Status register [HEX]
> Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
> DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
> SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.
>
> Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 
> hours)
>   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active 
> or idle.

Usual problem with smartctl, pretty useless error messages.

Same with all the rest below.

>   After command completion occurred, registers were:
>   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 
> 1039384
>
>   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
>   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:30.400  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:26.300  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
>   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
>
> Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 
> hours)
>   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active 
> or idle.
>
>   After command completion occurred, registers were:
>   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 
> 1039384
>
>   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
>   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:26.300  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
>   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
>   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
>
> Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 
> hours)
>   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active 
> or idle.
>
>   After command completion occurred, registers were:
>   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 
> 1039384
>
>   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
>   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:22.200  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
>   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
>   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
>   60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
>
> Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 
> hours)
>   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active 
> or idle.
>
>   After command completion occurred, registers were:
>   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>   40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 
> 1039384
>
>   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
>   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
>   25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:18.100  READ DMA EXT
>   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:18.000  READ LOG EXT
>   60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
>   60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  READ FPDMA QUEUED
>   61 10 b8 58 c2 0f 40 00      00:00:13.800  WRITE FPDMA QUEUED
>
> Error 12 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 4750 hours (197 days + 22 
> hours)
>   When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active 
> or idle.
>
>   After command completion occurred, registers were:
>   ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>   40 51 10 38 fa 06 40  Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x0006fa38 = 457272
>
>   Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
>   CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC   Powered_Up_Time  Command/Feature_Name
>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --  ----------------  --------------------
>   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:29.600  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:25.500  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:21.400  READ DMA EXT
>   25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00      00:00:17.400  READ DMA EXT
>   2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00      00:00:17.300  READ LOG EXT
>
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining LifeTime(hours) 
> LBA_of_first_error
> # 1  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       90%     14811 
> 33621728
> # 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     14811 -
> # 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      2408 -
>
> SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
>  SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
>     1        0        0  Not_testing
>     2        0        0  Not_testing
>     3        0        0  Not_testing
>     4        0        0  Not_testing
>     5        0        0  Not_testing
> Selective self-test flags (0x0):
>   After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
> If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute 
> delay.
>
>
> What do you think? Thank you in advance. :)

Its clearly got a problem, I'd replace it. 

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#1189

In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
...
> Its clearly got a problem, I'd replace it. 

Thanks. I'll let my client know. He might be better off to get a new 
machine since it's from 2008 (old to me, and he won't be able to run 
newer stuff). :)
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#1191

Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote 
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> Its clearly got a problem, I'd replace it. 
 
> Thanks. I'll let my client know. He might be better off 
> to get a new machine since it's from 2008 (old to me, 
> and he won't be able to run newer stuff). :)

Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive. 

Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it tho.  

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#1195

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive. 

> Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it tho.  

Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just 
pick any drive. Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P 
I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?
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#1197

Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive. 
> 
> > Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it tho.
> 
> Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just 
> pick any drive.

Most SATA 2.5" drives will work, but note that the interface in an Early
2008 MacBook Pro is only 1.5 Gbps, so using a very fast hard drive or
fast SSD won't gain much. I've also encountered SSDs that work fine on 3
Gbps and 6 Gbps SATA but don't work at all on 1.5 Gbps SATA (tested
using an external drive dock). I haven't encountered any such problem
with 2.5" hard drives.

If it is a Late 2008 15-inch MacBook Pro, the SATA interface can do 3
Gbps. (The Late 2008 17-inch is also limited to 1.5 Gbps - it was a
short lived update to the previous generation, because the 17-inch
Unibody redesign wasn't ready until Early 2009.)

> Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P 
> I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?

Much slower. Real world limits on transfer rates mean you can only get
30 to 35 MB/s via USB 2.0, while SATA 1 can get up to 100 MB/s.

If just for testing it will work (albeit slowly), but I wouldn't
recommend relying on a USB boot drive long term, due to the risk of
accidental disconnection by bumping the cable.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#1199

"Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote in message 
news:lLqdnZfECrA6QHjLnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive.
>
>> Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it 
>> tho.
>
> Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just
> pick any drive. Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P

Yeah, it would be easier if its one that fits.

> I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?

Not a useful test, you need to use one that uses the same controller
to see if the problem is in the controller and not the drive itself. 

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#1201

On 3/13/2016 8:53 AM, Ant wrote:
> ...internal HDD with SMARTReporter v2.7.3 (green and pass results
> didn't trust them) with its old smartctl version since I couldn't find a
> precompiled build that would work in an updated Mac OS X v10.5.8
> (Leopard) (tried http://builds.smartmontools.org/'s oldest and newest
> daily builds: "Operation could not be completed.
> (com.apple.installer.pagecontroller error -1.) -- Couldn't open
> 'smartmontools-6.5...pkg" (is there a compiled build that exist?). Is
> short test passed, but its long test failed as shown below:

Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?

Then just buy a new one to replace it?

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#1202

Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?
> 
> Then just buy a new one to replace it?

That would be way too easy...

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#1203

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?
> > 
> > Then just buy a new one to replace it?
> 
> That would be way too easy...

Are you trying to spoil the picnic? 

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