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Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #34292 > unrolled thread

Xterm configuration

Started bymoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
First post2016-01-13 19:47 +0000
Last post2016-01-20 21:58 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 54 — 11 participants

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Contents

  Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-13 19:47 +0000
    Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-13 22:19 +0000
    Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-13 17:34 -0500
      Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 16:03 +0000
        Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-14 14:29 -0500
    Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-13 18:45 -0500
      Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 16:08 +0000
        Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-14 13:01 -0500
          Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 19:05 +0000
            Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-14 19:17 +0000
              Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-14 14:33 -0500
                Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-14 14:45 -0500
                Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-14 20:28 +0000
              Re: Xterm configuration Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-01-14 20:09 +0000
                Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-14 20:44 +0000
                  Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-14 15:49 -0500
                    Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-14 20:58 +0000
                      Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 21:29 +0000
                        Re: Xterm configuration Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2016-01-14 14:24 -0800
                        Re: Xterm configuration billy@MIX.COM - 2016-01-14 23:09 +0000
                          Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-15 02:37 +0000
                            Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-15 07:28 +0000
                              Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-15 11:17 +0000
                                Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-15 14:38 +0000
                Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-15 02:29 +0000
                  Re: Xterm configuration "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-01-20 22:06 -0500
                  Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-25 17:15 +0000
                Re: Xterm configuration Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-01-15 08:31 -0500
                  Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-15 18:11 +0000
                    Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-15 19:01 +0000
                      Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-15 14:21 -0500
                        Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-15 19:57 +0000
                          Re: Xterm configuration moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-15 21:10 +0000
                    Re: Xterm configuration billy@MIX.COM - 2016-01-15 21:30 +0000
                    Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-15 22:39 +0000
                      Re: Xterm configuration Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-01-15 22:39 +0000
                    Re: Xterm configuration Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-01-16 09:10 -0500
                    Re: Xterm configuration "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-01-20 22:09 -0500
                      Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-21 01:05 -0500
                        Re: Xterm configuration "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-01-21 12:15 -0500
                          Re: Xterm configuration billy@MIX.COM - 2016-01-22 03:54 +0000
            Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-14 14:42 -0500
              Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-14 15:53 -0500
                Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-14 17:44 -0500
    Re: Xterm configuration Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-01-14 00:54 +0000
      Re: Xterm configuration Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0500
        Re: Xterm configuration Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-01-13 21:13 -0500
          Re: Xterm configuration Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-01-14 16:57 -0500
            Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-14 17:15 -0500
              Re: Xterm configuration Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-01-14 17:44 -0500
                Re: Xterm configuration JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-01-15 02:21 -0500
        Re: Xterm configuration "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-01-20 22:13 -0500
    Re: Xterm configuration Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2016-01-13 19:51 -0800
    Re: Xterm configuration "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-01-20 21:58 -0500

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#34292 — Xterm configuration

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-13 19:47 +0000
SubjectXterm configuration
Message-ID<n769l4$971$1@pcls7.std.com>
I'm trying to use xterm on this newish to me Mac with El Capitan and 
Xquartz, and am trying to make it usable.  I will have several windows 
which connect via SSH to other systems and want them to emulate DEC VTxxx 
terminals.

First, how do I add borders? I will have several windows on the screen at
once, with a black background, and when they overlap it's hard to tell
where one window ends and another begins because no border separates
them.

How do I enable a program to change the title in the title bar?  (not the 
escape sequence, but the resource to enable xterm to do so)

How do I cut from an xterm window and paste it elsewhere (for example
paste a URL into Safari)? And vice versa?  X seems to use a separate
paste buffer from the rest of the system.

Are there any good VTxxx or other fonts available?

Any other hints to make it like a DEC VTxxx or DECterm window.  I already 
have a good key definition file.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#34293

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2016-01-13 22:19 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn9djfs.gkk.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to#34292
In message <n769l4$971$1@pcls7.std.com> 
  Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to use xterm on this newish to me Mac with El Capitan and 
> Xquartz, and am trying to make it usable.  I will have several windows 
> which connect via SSH to other systems and want them to emulate DEC VTxxx 
> terminals.

> First, how do I add borders? I will have several windows on the screen at
> once, with a black background, and when they overlap it's hard to tell
> where one window ends and another begins because no border separates
> them.

You might want to find a group that specifically covers X11.

> How do I enable a program to change the title in the title bar?  (not the 
> escape sequence, but the resource to enable xterm to do so)

See above.

> How do I cut from an xterm window and paste it elsewhere (for example
> paste a URL into Safari)? And vice versa?  X seems to use a separate
> paste buffer from the rest of the system.

Yeah. Middle click pastes. I think right click copies? Been ages since I
used X11.

> Are there any good VTxxx or other fonts available?

> Any other hints to make it like a DEC VTxxx or DECterm window.  I already 
> have a good key definition file.

I use Terminal.app for ssh to other systems. It's miles better than
xterm.


-- 
"There's sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime
and at least the trains all run on time but they don't go anywhere."

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#34294

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2016-01-13 17:34 -0500
Message-ID<5696d104$0$1555$c3e8da3$f017e9df@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#34292
On 2016-01-13 14:47, Michael Moroney wrote:
> I'm trying to use xterm on this newish to me Mac with El Capitan and 
> Xquartz, and am trying to make it usable.  I will have several windows 
> which connect via SSH to other systems and want them to emulate DEC VTxxx 
> terminals.
> 
> First, how do I add borders? 

Not sure. My XQuarts puts normal windows on the Mac desktop. This could
be with the Xquartz preferences, make sure you use the standard window
manager.

> How do I enable a program to change the title in the title bar?  (not the 
> escape sequence, but the resource to enable xterm to do so)

here are my Xterm resources. They are in ~/.Xresources

XTerm*deleteIsDEL:      True
XTerm.decTerminalId: 220
XTerm.vt100.eightBitInput: true
XTerm.vt100.eightBitOutput: true
XTterm.vt100.eightBitControl: true
XTerm*vt00.scrollBar: true
XTerm*rightScrollBar: true
XTerm*saveLines: 500
XTerm.title: JF's XTERM
XTerm*font: 9x15
XTerm*allowWindowOps: true


Note that I have my login script define the prompt to display the
cuttent directory in the window title via escape sequences, so the
Xterm.title doesn't stay long



> How do I cut from an xterm window and paste it elsewhere (for example
> paste a URL into Safari)? And vice versa?  X seems to use a separate
> paste buffer from the rest of the system.

the relationaship between the X pasteboard and the OS-X one is defined
in the XQuartz preferences (X11 -> Preferences menu at the top of the
Mac screen).

You can set it so that when you do a X11 "copy" (from the Mac menu of
X11)  that it goes into the Mac clipboard so it can be pasted into a Mac
application. Some applicatiosn also have a Edit -> Copy which will make
it into the Mac's clipboard. But selecting text in Xterm, you generally
have to use the X11-> EDIT-> Copy menu to get it over to the Mac side.

Mine also automatically makes the MAC's clipboard available to paste in
X11 (alt leftclick for me).

So I can copy a url in Firefox, and then type curl -I <alt left-click>
to get the URL and press return.


> Any other hints to make it like a DEC VTxxx or DECterm window.  I already 
> have a good key definition file.

here is what I have. Tough one is the "fn" key on the Mac which does not
generate any X event so has to be moved.

keycode 79  = KP_F1
keycode 89  = KP_F1
keycode 83  = KP_F3
keycode 75  = KP_F4
keycode 113 = Help
keycode 115 = Menu
keycode 125 = DRemove
keycode 113 = Insert
keycode 127 = Select
keycode 123 = Find
keycode 59 = Delete
keycode 111 = F11 F11 F11 F11
keycode 114 = F16 F16 F16 F16
keycode 72 = F17 F17 F17 F17
keycode 87 = F18 F18 F18 F18
keycode 88 = F19 F19 F19 F19

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#34300

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-14 16:03 +0000
Message-ID<n78gsi$79i$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#34294
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

>here are my Xterm resources. They are in ~/.Xresources

Thanks for this.

>> Any other hints to make it like a DEC VTxxx or DECterm window.  I already 
>> have a good key definition file.

>here is what I have. Tough one is the "fn" key on the Mac which does not
>generate any X event so has to be moved.

>keycode 79  = KP_F1
>keycode 89  = KP_F1
>keycode 83  = KP_F3
>keycode 75  = KP_F4
>keycode 113 = Help
>keycode 115 = Menu
>keycode 125 = DRemove
>keycode 113 = Insert
>keycode 127 = Select
>keycode 123 = Find
>keycode 59 = Delete
>keycode 111 = F11 F11 F11 F11
>keycode 114 = F16 F16 F16 F16
>keycode 72 = F17 F17 F17 F17
>keycode 87 = F18 F18 F18 F18
>keycode 88 = F19 F19 F19 F19


This is pretty much what I used.  However I noticed you have a couple
of duplicate definitions.  First, you have keycode 79 and 89 defined as
KP_F1. Second you define keycode 113 as Help then define keycode 113
as Insert.  Typos?

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#34305

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2016-01-14 14:29 -0500
Message-ID<5697f707$0$33580$b1db1813$2411a48f@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#34300
On 2016-01-14 11:03, Michael Moroney wrote:

> KP_F1. Second you define keycode 113 as Help then define keycode 113
> as Insert.  Typos?

The "Find" key is positioned where the Mac keyboard has "fn".
Unfortunatly, "fn" generates no keycode, none nada. it is a dead key
from X's point of view. So Find had to be remapped and I put it just
above at F13 which is where Help would me.

Looking at my .Xresources, my guess is that I left the 113 = Help in
there, knowing it would be overriden a few lines down as a reference in
case I wanted to go back to it.


Perhaps I should have done a F13 = Find and SHIFT F13 = HELP type of
definition

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#34295

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2016-01-13 18:45 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-7EC7DB.18453113012016@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#34292
In article <n769l4$971$1@pcls7.std.com>,
 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:

> I'm trying to use xterm on this newish to me Mac with El Capitan and 
> Xquartz, and am trying to make it usable.  I will have several windows 
> which connect via SSH to other systems and want them to emulate DEC VTxxx 
> terminals.

Instead of running xterm remotely, why not run Terminal on the Mac and 
then use SSH in the terminal window? That's what I do.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34301

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-14 16:08 +0000
Message-ID<n78h6o$79i$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#34295
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:

>Instead of running xterm remotely, why not run Terminal on the Mac and 
>then use SSH in the terminal window? That's what I do.

I need one that emulates the DEC VTxxx terminals properly.  All the ones
I've tried either have emulation bugs, missing emulation or I can't define
the keypad to be like a VTxxx's keypad.  The best I've seen is PuTTY on a
PeeCee. I found a PuTTY for the Mac but like Xterm needs Xquartz and is
horribly slow and buggy, it's different from the PC version.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34302

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2016-01-14 13:01 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-A196CD.13013814012016@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#34301
In article <n78h6o$79i$2@pcls7.std.com>,
 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:

> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> 
> >Instead of running xterm remotely, why not run Terminal on the Mac and 
> >then use SSH in the terminal window? That's what I do.
> 
> I need one that emulates the DEC VTxxx terminals properly.  All the ones
> I've tried either have emulation bugs, missing emulation or I can't define
> the keypad to be like a VTxxx's keypad.  The best I've seen is PuTTY on a
> PeeCee. I found a PuTTY for the Mac but like Xterm needs Xquartz and is
> horribly slow and buggy, it's different from the PC version.

In Preferences->Advanced there's a checkbox "Strict VT100 keypad 
behavior". That doesn't do what you want?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#34303

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-14 19:05 +0000
Message-ID<n78rh0$85p$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#34302
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:

>In Preferences->Advanced there's a checkbox "Strict VT100 keypad 
>behavior". That doesn't do what you want?

I see no such option.  Closest thing I see is "Allow VT100 application 
keypad mode".

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#34304

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-01-14 19:17 +0000
Message-ID<dfqai3FrmrrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#34303
On 2016-01-14, Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>
>>In Preferences->Advanced there's a checkbox "Strict VT100 keypad 
>>behavior". That doesn't do what you want?
>
> I see no such option.  Closest thing I see is "Allow VT100 application 
> keypad mode".

What doesn't Terminal do that you need?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34306

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2016-01-14 14:33 -0500
Message-ID<5697f817$0$25165$c3e8da3$e408f015@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#34304
On 2016-01-14 14:17, Jolly Roger wrote:

> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?

Still need X to run X applications on the remote host with the window
popping up on your desktop.


And from an existing xterm, you can xterm & and pop a new xterm window
already logged in to the remote host. No need to create a termiunal
window, then ssh to the remote host, login, and set your environment to
patch the other.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34308

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2016-01-14 14:45 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-73CE14.14453614012016@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#34306
In article <5697f817$0$25165$c3e8da3$e408f015@news.astraweb.com>,
 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-14 14:17, Jolly Roger wrote:
> 
> > What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
> 
> Still need X to run X applications on the remote host with the window
> popping up on your desktop.

You need X, but not xterm.

> And from an existing xterm, you can xterm & and pop a new xterm window
> already logged in to the remote host. No need to create a termiunal
> window, then ssh to the remote host, login, and set your environment to
> patch the other.

Not sure what "set your environment to patch the other" means.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34310

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-01-14 20:28 +0000
Message-ID<dfqemtFsop4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#34306
On 2016-01-14, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-01-14 14:17, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
>
> Still need X to run X applications on the remote host with the window
> popping up on your desktop.

That has little to do with xterm. And I was asking the OP specifically.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34309

FromMichael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com>
Date2016-01-14 20:09 +0000
Message-ID<n78vad$kj6$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#34304
So far I see most of the options I want to turn on or off (except borders)  
in the control-mouse button menus.  Now to find all the resource names so
I don't have to set and unset them each time..

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:

>What doesn't Terminal do that you need?

I'm looking for a terminal emulator that can faithfully emulate a VT220 or
newer terminal to use with software that uses its functions heavily, 
including some more obscure features.  So far other emulators have either
been incomplete, buggy or I can't get the keypad to work right (usually
trying to get the "clear" key to act as PF1).  I don't remember what 
problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first thing
I tried to use.

I've spotted an apparent bug with Xterm but so far it is the best, other
than PuTTY on a PC.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34312

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-01-14 20:44 +0000
Message-ID<dfqfkuFt1vbU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#34309
Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
> 
>> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
> 
> I don't remember what 
> problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first thing
> I tried to use.

Okay... You can't realistically expect anyone to be able to help you figure
out whether Terminal is up to the task without more specific details
though.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34313

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2016-01-14 15:49 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-FCDF77.15494714012016@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to#34312
In article <dfqfkuFt1vbU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> wrote:
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
> > 
> >> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
> > 
> > I don't remember what 
> > problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first thing
> > I tried to use.
> 
> Okay... You can't realistically expect anyone to be able to help you figure
> out whether Terminal is up to the task without more specific details
> though.

He's said several times that the keypad doesn't work the same as a real 
VT220.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34315

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2016-01-14 20:58 +0000
Message-ID<dfqgepFt1jmU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#34313
On 2016-01-14, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <dfqfkuFt1vbU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
>> > 
>> >> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
>> > 
>> > I don't remember what 
>> > problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first thing
>> > I tried to use.
>> 
>> Okay... You can't realistically expect anyone to be able to help you figure
>> out whether Terminal is up to the task without more specific details
>> though.
>
> He's said several times that the keypad doesn't work the same as a real 
> VT220.

Then he is contradicting himself above, where he states he doesn't
remember what problems he had with *Terminal*.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#34316

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-01-14 21:29 +0000
Message-ID<n793ut$umi$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#34315
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:

>On 2016-01-14, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> In article <dfqfkuFt1vbU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
>>> > 
>>> >> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
>>> > 
>>> > I don't remember what 
>>> > problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first thing
>>> > I tried to use.
>>> 
>>> Okay... You can't realistically expect anyone to be able to help you figure
>>> out whether Terminal is up to the task without more specific details
>>> though.
>>
>> He's said several times that the keypad doesn't work the same as a real 
>> VT220.

>Then he is contradicting himself above, where he states he doesn't
>remember what problems he had with *Terminal*.

The problems I've had with all terminal emulators I've tried so far are
they are buggy or incomplete in their VT220 emulation, and/or the keypad
does not work correctly.  I don't remember *which* of these issues
specifically applies to Terminal, but it was at least one of them.

I am willing to try Terminal again, esp. if someone has tips for any
non-obvious settings, for example "To make 'clear' act as VTxxx PF1 do 
this".

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#34319

FromMichael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net>
Date2016-01-14 14:24 -0800
Message-ID<vilain-E0BCA3.14242614012016@news.individual.net>
In reply to#34316
In article <n793ut$umi$1@pcls7.std.com>,
 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
> 
> >On 2016-01-14, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >> In article <dfqfkuFt1vbU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> wrote:
> >>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> writes:
> >>> > 
> >>> >> What doesn't Terminal do that you need?
> >>> > 
> >>> > I don't remember what 
> >>> > problems I had with Terminal other than it was pretty much the first 
> >>> > thing
> >>> > I tried to use.
> >>> 
> >>> Okay... You can't realistically expect anyone to be able to help you 
> >>> figure
> >>> out whether Terminal is up to the task without more specific details
> >>> though.
> >>
> >> He's said several times that the keypad doesn't work the same as a real 
> >> VT220.
> 
> >Then he is contradicting himself above, where he states he doesn't
> >remember what problems he had with *Terminal*.
> 
> The problems I've had with all terminal emulators I've tried so far are
> they are buggy or incomplete in their VT220 emulation, and/or the keypad
> does not work correctly.  I don't remember *which* of these issues
> specifically applies to Terminal, but it was at least one of them.
> 
> I am willing to try Terminal again, esp. if someone has tips for any
> non-obvious settings, for example "To make 'clear' act as VTxxx PF1 do 
> this".

Realistically, your requirement for a non-buggy full-VT220 compatible 
emulator.  If you search MacUpdate for "Terminal Emulator" you'll see a 
bunch.

Wyse, back in the 80s and 90s, made their money building terminals with 
a variety of emulations.  I was contracted at one point to write a test 
suite that verified it their latest and greatest worked with DEC's 
automation package ALL-IN-1.  MacWyse has a VT220 emulation that may fit 
your criteria.  The trouble is, it's $95.

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/9448/macwise

If you're serious about "all the emulators I tried had bugs", then you 
might try MacWyse and see if it works for you.  If it also has the bugs 
you're seeing, then perhaps it's a universal reading of DEC's VT220 spec 
that's been propagated down through the years.  In any case, you'll be 
able to complain to someone and since you bought their product, they 
have to listen.  

FOSS software developers, maybe not so much.  If you don't want to pony 
up to pay for a real emulator with supported VT220 support, you can 
download xterm's code and dive in.  

Personally, I prefer an emulator that does multiple things.  I use 
MobaTerm on Windows because it does ssh, VNC, X, file copy, and multiple 
windows to the servers I login to.  You might get more bang from

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/30267/zoc-terminal

for $80.  VT100 support is most of the terminal packages but VT220 seems 
to be something you have to pay for.  That's your call.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#34323

Frombilly@MIX.COM
Date2016-01-14 23:09 +0000
Message-ID<n799qj$p70$1@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#34316
In comp.sys.mac.system Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:

> The problems I've had with all terminal emulators I've tried so far are
> they are buggy or incomplete in their VT220 emulation, and/or the keypad
> does not work correctly.  I don't remember *which* of these issues
> specifically applies to Terminal, but it was at least one of them.
> 
> I am willing to try Terminal again, esp. if someone has tips for any
> non-obvious settings, for example "To make 'clear' act as VTxxx PF1 do 
> this".

iTerm may work for you, but it has its own set of bugs.  I haven't
tried it in a few months now, but it can at least come close.

http://iterm2.com

It's a work in progress... and free.

As for PF1, the best key remapping tool on the planet is here -

https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/index.html.en

Highly, highly recommended.  Also free.

That said, DEC terminals have their own bugs, and at times
emuating them correctly means also emulating the bugs.  I
don't know of any OS X emulator that good, but you might
give this one a try -

https://www.vandyke.com/products/securecrt/index.html
https://www.vandyke.com/products/securecrt/mac_capabilities_features.html

It costs, but it is also very well supported, and thus
you can complain and maybe get what you need from them.

What am I, a heavy user of DEC systems, using?  Apple's
Terminal emulator and Karabiner.  There are a few problems
displaying the 'graphics' chars in, say, the title bar of
VAX Notes (stops at 80 cols instead of 132), but overall
I'm happy enough with it.

As for fonts, I'm using Monaco, which is for me the best
looking of those supplied by Apple.

Billy Y..
-- 
        sub     #'9+1   ,r0             ; convert ascii byte
	add     #9.+1   ,r0             ; to an integer
	bcc     20$                     ; not a number

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