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Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-09 16:05 -0400
    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-09 22:21 +0100
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-09 17:04 -0500
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 00:24 -0400
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:20 +0100
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 14:09 -0400
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:38 +0100
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-10 08:26 -0500
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-13 13:16 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-13 08:58 -0500
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-13 11:11 -0400
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-13 15:26 +0000
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-13 14:17 -0500
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-14 08:12 +0100
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-14 08:08 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-15 20:47 +0100
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-20 22:12 -0400
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 00:22 -0400
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:38 +0100
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:22 +0100
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-10 08:29 -0500
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:22 -0400
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:23 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-11 09:16 -0500
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-11 10:18 -0400
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-10 17:14 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:21 -0400
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:24 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-11 16:28 +0000
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2023-12-11 08:19 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:28 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-11 16:29 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-11 10:38 -0400
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-11 16:08 +0000
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 19:25 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-11 19:09 +0000
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:51 +0100
                      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-12 08:27 +0000
                        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-12 10:13 +0100
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-11 13:29 -0500
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> - 2023-12-11 14:17 -0500
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Bradley <bradley@nospam.com> - 2023-12-11 14:35 -0500
                      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:55 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:57 +0100
    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:37 +0100
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:24 +0100
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:46 -0400
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-12 10:17 +0100

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#46873 — Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote 

>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an 
>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off 
>> of the club you want.
> 
> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users 
> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of 
> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.

Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and
most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).

But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#46875

On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
> 
>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>> of the club you want.
>>
>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
> 
> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and
> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
> 
> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.

That is not so.

Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
expensive, or is being phased out.

So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#46877

On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>> of the club you want.
>>>
>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>
>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on 
>> Android, and
>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>
>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
> 
> That is not so.
> 
> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
> expensive, or is being phased out.

MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly 
bandwidth plan limit.

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

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#46881

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote 

>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>> 
>> That is not so.
>> 
>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
>> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
>> expensive, or is being phased out.
> 
> MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly 
> bandwidth plan limit.

I have no problems using carrier messaging even as many of my own family 
members are on iOS. Yet others need messaging to be improved. Why?

What's the fundamental problem?

1. I am aware that due to the fee structure in many places in Europe, 
   WhatsApp & RCS is useful to circumvent imposed carrier costs.

   But that, in and of itself, has _nothing_ per se to do with Android.

2. I am also aware that iOS users see colored bubbles, which, for some
   rather strange reason, seems to bother them - but they're iOS users.

What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?

There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?

If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?

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#46892

On 2023-12-10 05:24, Wally J wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

...

> What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?
> 
> There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
> A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
> B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?

For me, no photos or any multimedia content, just plain text, unless 
they use WhatsApp.

> 
> If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?

You have free MMS. I don't.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#46900

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote 

>> What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?
>> 
>> There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
>> A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
>> B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?
> 
> For me, no photos or any multimedia content, just plain text, unless 
> they use WhatsApp.
> 
>> 
>> If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?
> 
> You have free MMS. I don't.

Hi Carlos, 

I'm always trying to understand everyone's problems, logically & sensibly.

Thanks for explaining that which I was aware of but which I don't associate
with "Android" per se, but with the way carriers charge for MMS messages.

I appreciate that patient answer as you know I know about Andy's and your
MMS issues being solved with RCS - but I was trying to figure out why only
the iOS users complained about their messaging app and not Android users.

I can _easily_ agree with you that if the solution to the MMS charges are a
different MMS app (such as Google's recently renamed app with RCS), then
that's a solution which is on Android - even as it's not an Android issue.

I'm all for using all the free capabilities that apps provide us, so I'm
100% with you and Andy and anyone else who wants free MMS who doesn't have
it (where it's never free but it's "bundled" into our service in the USA).

Your answer is helpful in that I am trying to explain to the iKooks that
nobody on Android is complaining about their Android messaging app per se.

It's only the iKooks who complain about it.

What you're complaining about is not that Android doesn't support RCS, 
but that Apple doesn't yet support RCS (which is a different thing also).
-- 
Factual information + logic + sense = intelligent assessments of fact

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#46889

On 09.12.23 23:04, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>
>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>>> of the club you want.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>
>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on 
>>> Android, and
>>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>>
>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>
>> That is not so.
>>
>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
>> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
>> expensive, or is being phased out.
> 
> MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly 
> bandwidth plan limit.

In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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#46895

On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.12.23 23:04, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>>>> of the club you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>> Android, and
>>>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>>>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>>>
>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>>
>>> That is not so.
>>>
>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
>>> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
>>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
>>> expensive, or is being phased out.
>>
>> MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly
>> bandwidth plan limit.
> 
> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.

You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very 
relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with 
images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46947

On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
> 
> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very 
> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with 
> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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#46948

On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>
>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
> 
> *ROTFLSTC*
> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> what they are in Europe or Asia.

Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for 
the cheap plans?

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46950

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote 

>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
> 
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for 
> the cheap plans?

I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
 Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

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#46951

On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>> 
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
>Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for 
>the cheap plans?

Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage, 
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The 
standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly 
contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data: 
typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of 
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests 
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to 
include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them. 

I think the unpopularity of MMSs is historical, predating smartphones and 
the rise of mobile data. Kids sent huge numbers of SMSs, and we adults 
used them quite a lot, so operators offered ever higher numbers of them 
'free'. MMS never caught on - probably because the experience on a tiny 
display was so poor. With smartphones the number of SMSs has declined 
drastically, so they're free. 

Soon after smartphones appeared, there was WhatsApp! Everybody - apart 
from all-iPhone families - had WA and knew that, for sharing photos and 
videos, that's what you used. (This was back in the days of Android 4.) 

I can't speak knowledgeably about 'Europe' as a whole but for countries 
I've had SIMs for, it seemed the same. 
-- 
(Remove numerics from email address)

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#46956

On 2023-12-13 10:26, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
> 
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of

Amazing.  Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of 
data is on the order of $40+tax/month.  This would be a bring-your-own 
phone annual deal.   Actually I'm contract free at the moment.  So they 
bill me monthly.  I can walk at any moment and take my number with me. 
They're always "upselling" (more data for a small increase in fee).

> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

No extra charge here for larger files (videos, etc.).

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

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#46963

Am 13.12.23 um 20:17 schrieb Alan Browne:
> Amazing.  Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
> data is on the order of $40+tax/month.  This would be a bring-your-own
> phone annual deal.

My Wingo Business costs me $50/month everything flat golablly inculding 
the US and Canada. Unlimited data roaming everywhere. To put that into 
perspective: Switzerland is rather a high price country for 
communication services.

-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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#46962

Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
> 
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the 
markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody 
used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

-- 
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46965

On 2023-12-14 08:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat 
>>>> with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
> 
> There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the 
> markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody 
> used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).

To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a 
message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big 
smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#46984

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote 

> I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).
> 
> To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a 
> message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big 
> smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

Thanks for running that test for the team, Carlos, as everyone pitches in
to provide the tribal knowledge of these combined Usenet newsgroups.

Here in the states, most of us (not all though) have unlimited free MMS so
we don't need RCS to send MMS via the Internet data on the phone plan.

Hence, we don't see as much value to RCS as you do - where the iPhone users
seem to complain a lot about bubble color which is another thing most of us
don't care about (as on Android, all users look the same to us, AFAICT).

Hence, for those few who are affected by MMS charges, it's good that you
ran those tests as we can't run them given we don't have the same issues.
-- 
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.

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#46880

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote 

>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and
>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>> 
>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
> 
> That is not so.
> 
> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
> expensive, or is being phased out.
> 
> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.

Hi Carlos,

I think I understood you but I don't think you understood me yet.
Maybe I am wrong though - so here's my always sensible logical path... 

Look at it logically.
You complain about messaging, right? I don't. Right?      
What's the difference?

       *We're both on Android, right?*

I have absolutely zero issues communicating with iOS users.
You do.
    
       *So the problem isn't Android.*

The problem (as I understand it) is you have to pay for MMS and I don't.

       *But that has _nothing_ to do with Android.*

Nobody on Android is complaining because of Android.
You are complaining about the way you're billed for MMS.

That's different.
-- 
*Why are only some people having trouble with carrier messaging?*
 <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/6gFYKyubHy4>

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#46888

On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>
>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>> of the club you want.
>>>
>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>
>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and
>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>
>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
> 
> That is not so.
> 
> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party 
> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols 
> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is 
> expensive, or is being phased out.
> 
> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.

I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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#46893

On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>
>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
>>>>> of the club you want.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
>>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
>>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>
>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and
>>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
>>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
>>>
>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>
>> That is not so.
>>
>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
>> tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
>> expensive, or is being phased out.
>>
>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
> 
> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.

Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can 
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to 
WhatsApp.

It is the same issue in both directions.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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