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A2osX Crashes and Feature Request

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  A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-03-26 15:34 +0000
    Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> - 2020-03-26 09:54 -0700
      Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-03-30 00:48 +0000
        Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-04-05 18:16 +0000
          Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 13:28 -0700
            Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-04-05 22:47 +0000
              Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 16:01 -0700
                Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-04-06 19:31 +0000
                  Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-06 14:49 -0700
                    Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2020-04-07 14:45 +0000
                    Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2020-04-07 12:01 -0400
                    Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Oliver Schmidt <ol.sc@web.de> - 2020-04-09 19:33 +0000
                      Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-09 12:52 -0700
                        Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request ol.sc@web.de (Oliver Schmidt) - 2020-04-11 21:54 +0000
                      Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> - 2020-04-09 19:52 -0400
    Re: A2osX Crashes and Feature Request remy gibert <remygibert63@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 13:03 -0700

#44493 — A2osX Crashes and Feature Request

I used A2osX release 0.93 earlier this week on my platinum Apple IIe. Let's
see if I can remember the slot configuration:

Aux: RamWorks III w/ 1 MB RAM
1: Transwarp
2: Super Serial
3: Uthernet II
4: Apple Mouse
5: TimeMaster II H.O.
6: Disk II controller
7: CFFA 3000

First off, this is a really impressive operating system, and I can remember
how it was 2 years ago, and it was promising then. Now to have a Unix-like
system that not only supports multiple pseudo-ttys, but also dial-ins from
SSC's is really amazing!

The crashes I experienced I think were due to the networking code. I noticed
that my Uthernet II was not automatically detected. When I used INSDRV to
add UTHERNET2.DRV I would get a crash to the Monitor a few moments later.
This happened again after I rebooted and did the same thing.

For the feature request, I would like to have a -h switch for ls to give
file sizes in Kilobytes or Megabytes when listing a directory.

-- 
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44496

DF,

Thanks for the kind words and the feedback.  For the feature request it would be best to open an issue on github to log/track the request.  If you do it, you will get notified when/if it is implemented.  If you prefer I can add the request (but you will not get any updates).

On your problem, I have used the U2 extensively with both a TW and U2 without problem, however what stands out to me is your TimeMaster.  I had a thunderclock (that i later decided was bad or something and pulled and replaced with an NSC....) but now you have me wondering if that is the problem.  I would suggest you do the following to test:
  1) Pull both the TW and TM II and boot and run.
  2) If no problems after 1: then put the TW back in
  3) Depending on 2/Swap with the TM II.
Also check your settings for the TW (high/slow slot speed) for the U2. I think it works at high, but you might try at slow.

If all that does not work...pull the mouse (I only say that because it is an interrupt source and can change a2osx behavior).

Oh...and I assume you are working on the most current 0.93 (it sounds like you are using the RELEASE.32mb.po images, just confirming...

Patrick

P.S. We do have a forum on slack if you want semi-real-time support/chat.  I can send you an invite if your interested.

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 11:34:22 AM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
> I used A2osX release 0.93 earlier this week on my platinum Apple IIe. Let's
> see if I can remember the slot configuration:
> 
> Aux: RamWorks III w/ 1 MB RAM
> 1: Transwarp
> 2: Super Serial
> 3: Uthernet II
> 4: Apple Mouse
> 5: TimeMaster II H.O.
> 6: Disk II controller
> 7: CFFA 3000
> 
> First off, this is a really impressive operating system, and I can remember
> how it was 2 years ago, and it was promising then. Now to have a Unix-like
> system that not only supports multiple pseudo-ttys, but also dial-ins from
> SSC's is really amazing!
> 
> The crashes I experienced I think were due to the networking code. I noticed
> that my Uthernet II was not automatically detected. When I used INSDRV to
> add UTHERNET2.DRV I would get a crash to the Monitor a few moments later.
> This happened again after I rebooted and did the same thing.
> 
> For the feature request, I would like to have a -h switch for ls to give
> file sizes in Kilobytes or Megabytes when listing a directory.
> 
> -- 
> ]DF$
> The New Apple II User's Guide:
> https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44519

Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> 
> If all that does not work...pull the mouse (I only say that because it is
> an interrupt source and can change a2osx behavior).

I will do these tests and report back what happens.

> 
> Oh...and I assume you are working on the most current 0.93 (it sounds like
> you are using the RELEASE.32mb.po images, just confirming...

Correct.


> 
> P.S. We do have a forum on slack if you want semi-real-time support/chat. 
> I can send you an invite if your interested.

I think I'm already on that, if it's the a2osx.slack.com site.

-- 
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44560

Results are back. The cause was the TimeMaster II HO card and the
Uthernet2.drv driver. I tested both with and without the Transwarp, and the
cause is definitely the clock card alone.

Here are 5 screenshots showing the A2osX crash to Monitor:
https://macgui.com/gallery/showcat.php?id=7&with=5375

Crash screenshot 4 is actually a hang. There were no problems with the
Uthernet.drv driver for original Uthernet.

The phrase "Hi there!" is an echo command that I put in my .profile.

Here are the cards in my Apple IIe:
https://macgui.com/gallery/showphoto.php?pic_id=5370

My Uthernet II is in slot 3, though you can hardly see it.

-- 
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44566

Thanks for the feedback.  Just to verify, does the TM II work normally with ProDOS and other software?

Oh oh oh...I think I know what is going on.  If you notice when loading the U2.drv you dont have to say what slot it is in.  That is because A2osX automatically scans slots (starting at 7) for the U2 when you do the INSDRV command.  You can tell it to skip a slot with the KCONFIG utility.  Load KCONFIG and "DISABLE" the slot the TM II is in.  Then "Save" and "Exit" Kconfig.  Now reboot A2osX.  Do INSDRV with both cards installed and see if it still crashes.

FYI, what is happening is with INSDRV, A2osX is probing all the slots and is tripping the ROM on the TM II in some way that makes the Apple go boom.

Let me know if this helped defuse this one :)

Patrick

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 2:16:08 PM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
> Results are back. The cause was the TimeMaster II HO card and the
> Uthernet2.drv driver. I tested both with and without the Transwarp, and the
> cause is definitely the clock card alone.
> 
> Here are 5 screenshots showing the A2osX crash to Monitor:
> https://macgui.com/gallery/showcat.php?id=7&with=5375
> 
> Crash screenshot 4 is actually a hang. There were no problems with the
> Uthernet.drv driver for original Uthernet.
> 
> The phrase "Hi there!" is an echo command that I put in my .profile.
> 
> Here are the cards in my Apple IIe:
> https://macgui.com/gallery/showphoto.php?pic_id=5370
> 
> My Uthernet II is in slot 3, though you can hardly see it.
> 
> -- 
> ]DF$
> The New Apple II User's Guide:
> https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44569

Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback.  Just to verify, does the TM II work normally
> with
> ProDOS and other software?

Yes.

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#44570

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:47:17 PM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
> Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> > Thanks for the feedback.  Just to verify, does the TM II work normally
> > with
> > ProDOS and other software?
> 
> Yes.

OK, Let me know if the KCONFIG options solves the issue.

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#44576

Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:47:17 PM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
>> Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
>> > Thanks for the feedback.  Just to verify, does the TM II work normally
>> > with
>> > ProDOS and other software?
>> 
>> Yes.
> 
> OK, Let me know if the KCONFIG options solves the issue.
>

You were correct: it was the order of cards in the slots that caused the
crash. When I swapped the TimeMaster II and Uthernet II cards, there was no
crash. This seems to be indicative of a bug in the slot detection code for
the Uthernet II.

My Uthernet II is in slot 6 and the TimeMaster II is in slot 3 now.

I did not use the KCONFIG option.

-- 
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44577

This is not a bug.  If you look at any other software for the ethernet cards (and for that matter printer cards, serial cards/modems, etc.) you have to tell the system which slot a card is in.  Specifically, look at all the software that works with the Uthernet II, you either must put the card in a particular slot (2 or 5 or something) or you have to patch the software to tell it where the card is.  In the case of A2osX, it scans the slots to attempt to find a card (this is true for any driver you load with INSDRV), so if you install support for terminals with INSDRV SSC.DRV then that will do the same slot scanning and would trip over your TM II.  This is the reason KCONFIG allows you specifically tell A2osX to never scan a particular slot (to solve the problem you saw).

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 3:31:02 PM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
> Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:47:17 PM UTC-4, D Finnigan wrote:
> >> Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> >> > Thanks for the feedback.  Just to verify, does the TM II work normally
> >> > with
> >> > ProDOS and other software?
> >> 
> >> Yes.
> > 
> > OK, Let me know if the KCONFIG options solves the issue.
> >
> 
> You were correct: it was the order of cards in the slots that caused the
> crash. When I swapped the TimeMaster II and Uthernet II cards, there was no
> crash. This seems to be indicative of a bug in the slot detection code for
> the Uthernet II.
> 
> My Uthernet II is in slot 6 and the TimeMaster II is in slot 3 now.
> 
> I did not use the KCONFIG option.
> 
> -- 
> ]DF$
> The New Apple II User's Guide:
> https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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#44583

Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> This is not a bug.  If you look at any other software for the ethernet
> cards (and for that matter printer cards, serial cards/modems, etc.) you
> have to tell the system which slot a card is in.  Specifically, look at
> all
> the software that works with the Uthernet II, you either must put the card
> in a particular slot (2 or 5 or something) or you have to patch the
> software to tell it where the card is.  In the case of A2osX, it scans the
> slots to attempt to find a card (this is true for any driver you load with
> INSDRV), so if you install support for terminals with INSDRV SSC.DRV then
> that will do the same slot scanning and would trip over your TM II.  This
> is the reason KCONFIG allows you specifically tell A2osX to never scan a
> particular slot (to solve the problem you saw).

So crashing into the Monitor is not a bug?

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#44584

On 4/6/20 5:49 PM, Patrick Kloepfer wrote:
> This is not a bug.  If you look at any other software for the ethernet cards (and for that matter printer cards, serial cards/modems, etc.) you have to tell the system which slot a card is in.

I object!  Mine does not.

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#44605

Patrick Kloepfer <pkloepfer@gmail.com> wrote:

> [...]  If you look at any other software for the ethernet cards (and for
> that matter printer cards, serial cards/modems, etc.) you have to tell
> the system which slot a card is in.  Specifically, look at all the
> software that works with the Uthernet II, you either must put the card in
> a particular slot (2 or 5 or something) or you have to patch the software
> to tell it where the card is.

Come on, let me know of "all the software" you know of ;-))

Let me help you:

- ADTPro _does_ slot auto detection - as David already informed about.

- All Contiki programs do slot configuration via a config file, so no
"patching".

- All IP65 programs but one do slot configuration via a config file, so no
"patching".

- The one IP65 program in question is Telnet65 which doesn't do slot
configuration via config file as it doesn't do file I/O at all.

Maybe better less big talk about other software next time.

Regards,
Oliver

PS: The issue that initiated this thread is the very type of reason why my
software will never ever do slot auto detection of slot cards without
firmware - not even optionally.

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#44606

Does your PS not make my point?  And as far as all the software that has config files....That is the same for A2osX or really, it does auto config for the most part, but there are times where you have to make changes in a config file.  This was a design consideration... to make it easy for most people (the auto config works with no configuration for a majority of people, but configuration is available for the exceptions).

As a side note, I in no way meant to piss on someone else parade, but I guess i did, so I will let others answer user questions going forward.

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:33:14 PM UTC-4, Oliver Schmidt wrote:
> 
> > [...]  If you look at any other software for the ethernet cards (and for
> > that matter printer cards, serial cards/modems, etc.) you have to tell
> > the system which slot a card is in.  Specifically, look at all the
> > software that works with the Uthernet II, you either must put the card in
> > a particular slot (2 or 5 or something) or you have to patch the software
> > to tell it where the card is.
> 
> Come on, let me know of "all the software" you know of ;-))
> 
> Let me help you:
> 
> - ADTPro _does_ slot auto detection - as David already informed about.
> 
> - All Contiki programs do slot configuration via a config file, so no
> "patching".
> 
> - All IP65 programs but one do slot configuration via a config file, so no
> "patching".
> 
> - The one IP65 program in question is Telnet65 which doesn't do slot
> configuration via config file as it doesn't do file I/O at all.
> 
> Maybe better less big talk about other software next time.
> 
> Regards,
> Oliver
> 
> PS: The issue that initiated this thread is the very type of reason why my
> software will never ever do slot auto detection of slot cards without
> firmware - not even optionally.

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#44619

Hi Patrick,

>Does your PS not make my point? [...]

Actually, it does not. A2osX does auto detection with the option to
fall back to configure manually.

My programs never ever do auto detection and only allow to configure
manually.

Why? Because I'm too lazy to implement auto detection? No, rather
because after a failed auto detection has e.g. by accident caused a
hard disk to be formatted the user likely isn't fully satisfied to
learn that he as well would have had the option to configure manually
;-)

>As a side note, I in no way meant to piss on someone else parade, but I gue=
>ss i did [...]

Thanks for the clarification :-) But actually, you did. At least to me
'patching' a program means to make a modification to a program which
was not intended by the original author of the program. So the
co-notation of your statement was at least for me that the authors of
'all' programs beside A2osX were too stupid to foresee the need to
operate an Ethernet card in a different slot than the one the author
considered the default. However, the opposite is true: All programs I
know of either do auto detection or have well defined and documented
means to configure the Ethernet card slot.

>[...] so I will let others answer user questions going forward.

As far I understand...
- A2osX currently doesn't have a large user base
- The A2osX developer hasn't spoken up in this thread so far to help
the user to solve his issue
...so I'd assess that your expertise with A2osX is pretty valuable.

The only issue I see is you making "problematic" statements about
'all' non-A2osX programs.

Regards,
Oliver

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#44608

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, Oliver Schmidt wrote:

> PS: The issue that initiated this thread is the very type of reason why my
> software will never ever do slot auto detection of slot cards without
> firmware - not even optionally.

I ran into some trouble with detection code for... I think it was the 
EZCGI.  It was one of the TMS9918 sprite cards, at least.

-uso.

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#44626

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 4:34:22 PM UTC+1, D Finnigan wrote:
> I used A2osX release 0.93 earlier this week on my platinum Apple IIe. Let's
> see if I can remember the slot configuration:
> 
> Aux: RamWorks III w/ 1 MB RAM
> 1: Transwarp
> 2: Super Serial
> 3: Uthernet II
> 4: Apple Mouse
> 5: TimeMaster II H.O.
> 6: Disk II controller
> 7: CFFA 3000
> 
> First off, this is a really impressive operating system, and I can remember
> how it was 2 years ago, and it was promising then. Now to have a Unix-like
> system that not only supports multiple pseudo-ttys, but also dial-ins from
> SSC's is really amazing!
> 
> The crashes I experienced I think were due to the networking code. I noticed
> that my Uthernet II was not automatically detected. When I used INSDRV to
> add UTHERNET2.DRV I would get a crash to the Monitor a few moments later.
> This happened again after I rebooted and did the same thing.
> 
> For the feature request, I would like to have a -h switch for ls to give
> file sizes in Kilobytes or Megabytes when listing a directory.
> 
> -- 
> ]DF$
> The New Apple II User's Guide:
> https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

Oyé, David!

i see you finally got help from Patrick about your U2 problem.

About your -h enhencement, just open an issue at GitHub so i won't forgot to add it to .94 : https://github.com/A2osX/A2osX/issues

And remember you will always be welcome to join us to contribute to this project.


Rémy

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