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Virtual Acorn and UAC

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  Virtual Acorn and UAC Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2015-12-20 15:05 +0000
    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 16:21 +0000
      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-21 09:52 +0000
        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC spampling <spam.pling@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-22 07:53 +0000
          Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-22 08:39 +0000
            Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC spampling <spam.pling@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-23 08:00 +0000
    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2015-12-20 16:19 +0100
      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2015-12-21 13:34 +0000
        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2015-12-21 17:11 +0100
          Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2015-12-21 20:34 +0000
    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2015-12-20 16:27 +0000
      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 17:03 +0000
        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2015-12-20 17:32 +0000
          Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 20:00 +0000
            Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 20:52 +0000
              Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC jgh@mdfs.net - 2015-12-31 18:32 -0800
                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2016-01-01 06:51 +0000
                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Vince M Hudd <atdotcodotuk@dotcodotukat.co.uk> - 2016-01-01 09:40 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC jgh@mdfs.net - 2016-01-02 17:35 -0800
                      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Vince M Hudd <atdotcodotuk@dotcodotukat.co.uk> - 2016-01-05 12:42 +0000
                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2016-01-03 13:34 +0000
                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC John <newsmcc@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-01-03 14:16 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2016-01-03 22:23 +0000
                      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC John <newsmcc@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-01-04 09:18 +0000
                        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2016-01-04 12:09 +0000
        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Vince M Hudd <atdotcodotuk@dotcodotukat.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 18:27 +0000
          Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-20 19:58 +0000
            Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 20:26 +0000
              Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-20 21:04 +0000
                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 21:53 +0000
                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2015-12-20 22:04 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Folderol <general@musically.me.uk> - 2015-12-20 22:19 +0000
                      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-12-20 23:31 +0000
                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-21 20:57 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC (very OT noe!) Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> - 2015-12-21 21:29 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-21 22:25 +0000
                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian Howlett <news-spamtrap@brianhowlett.me.uk> - 2015-12-21 23:46 +0000
                      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-22 11:35 +0000
                        Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-12-23 11:05 +0000
                          Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Folderol <general@musically.me.uk> - 2015-12-23 11:10 +0000
                            Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> - 2015-12-23 20:57 +0000
                              Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Timothy Hartley <tgh@orpheusmail.co.uk> - 2015-12-27 10:15 +0000
                                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2015-12-27 13:11 +0000
                                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2015-12-27 14:44 +0000
                                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-12-27 19:45 +0000
                                    Education red tape was Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-28 20:35 +0000
                                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC spampling <spam.pling@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-27 13:34 +0000
                                Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-12-27 17:28 +0000
                                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2015-12-27 18:14 +0000
                                    Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-27 20:01 +0000
                                  Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2015-12-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: Virtual Acorn and UAC Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2015-12-21 13:52 +0000

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#13526 — Virtual Acorn and UAC

I'm trying to solve the UAC problem with Virtual Acorn on my Wife's laptop
prior to CONSIDERING a W7 to W10 upgrade.

People on this NG have said that reducing the UAC security places your
machine more at risk and should be avoided. They have then offered their
solutions which seem to be either moving the folder or changing the
settings of the folder. Both parties are then are able to switch UAC back
to normal and VA still works.

I have tried both ways and given it a good go too, spent a couple of hours
on it. For me, neither system works properly or at all.

Moving the folder is the kiss of death, from them on it can't find the
Acorn hard drive and so will not boot. Obviously, this needs configuration
changes to make this work, so that it knows where to look for the hard
drive and probably other stuff.

Changing security permissions to give everyone and their dog full control
doesn't suppress the security nags.

For some odd reason there appears to be some reluctance for people who
have succeeded in this venture to specify exactly what they did so that
others can do it or am getting paranoid?

So would someone who has solved this riddle please reveal the detail of
their fix please. Go on, it is christmas.

Cheers,

Bob.

-- 
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

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#13527

In article <5534fde7adbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
   Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> So would someone who has solved this riddle please reveal the detail of
> their fix please. Go on, it is christmas.


http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/news.htm

See 5/9/2014

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#13545

In article <553504cf2dSpambin@argonet.co.uk>,
   Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5534fde7adbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
>    Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> > So would someone who has solved this riddle please reveal the detail of
> > their fix please. Go on, it is christmas.


> http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/news.htm

> See 5/9/2014

Hi Stuart.

I've been trying to get an answer to this one for long and weary.

It does remind me of what my dad used to say about petrol engines and
carburetters - if it's working then don't fiddle with it, leave it well
alone and don't ever strip it to find why it is working.

I think that is what I might do!

Brian

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#13563

In article <5535650af1bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
   Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> if it's working then don't fiddle with it, leave it well
> alone and don't ever strip it to find why it is working.

When I was 7 or 8 I took apart my bedroom clock, it worked better when I
put it back together.

-- 

Steve Pampling

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#13564

In article <5535ddf2e7spam.pling@btinternet.com>,
   spampling <spam.pling@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <5535650af1bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
>    Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > if it's working then don't fiddle with it, leave it well
> > alone and don't ever strip it to find why it is working.

> When I was 7 or 8 I took apart my bedroom clock, it worked better when I
> put it back together.

You wouldn't be related to a guy called Harrison perhaps?

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#13569

In article <5535e23d39bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
   Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5535ddf2e7spam.pling@btinternet.com>,
>    spampling <spam.pling@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > In article <5535650af1bbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
> >    Brian <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > if it's working then don't fiddle with it, leave it well
> > > alone and don't ever strip it to find why it is working.

> > When I was 7 or 8 I took apart my bedroom clock, it worked better when I
> > put it back together.

> You wouldn't be related to a guy called Harrison perhaps?

Not according to the genealogy research

-- 

Steve Pampling

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#13528

Bob Latham wrote:
> Moving the folder is the kiss of death, from them on it can't find the
> Acorn hard drive and so will not boot. Obviously, this needs configuration
> changes to make this work, so that it knows where to look for the hard
> drive and probably other stuff.

You need to change the location of the hard drive in the appropriate
Model.cfg file(s). It/they will still point to the old location.

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#13546

In article <gemini.nznx81000gakr00rw.nwsgrp@ntlworld.com>,
   SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Bob Latham wrote:

> > Moving the folder is the kiss of death, from them on it can't find the
> > Acorn hard drive and so will not boot. Obviously, this needs
> > configuration changes to make this work, so that it knows where to
> > look for the hard drive and probably other stuff.

> You need to change the location of the hard drive in the appropriate
> Model.cfg file(s). It/they will still point to the old location.

Thanks for that.

I found as you suggested 1 file that had the old path to the hard drive
and I changed it. The file is:

VirtualAcorn/VirtualRPC-AdjustSA/Models/StrongArm RISC OS Adjust
(jit)/Model.cfg

Can't find any other files with the wrong path but it still will not run.

Now gives error: Incompatible Host.

Any ideas?


Bob.

-- 
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

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#13550

Bob Latham wrote:
> Now gives error: Incompatible Host.
> Any ideas?

See if this helps:
http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/support/articles/151/index.htm

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#13557

In article <gemini.nzpubq0015ree03j0.nwsgrp@ntlworld.com>,
   SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Bob Latham wrote:
> > Now gives error: Incompatible Host.
> > Any ideas?

> See if this helps:
> http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/support/articles/151/index.htm

Yes it did. The path in there looked fine, nothing wrong at all, never the
less, the fix, fixed it.

Thank you for your help.


Cheers,

Bob.

-- 
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

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#13529

On 20 Dec, Bob Latham wrote in message
    <5534fde7adbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

> People on this NG have said that reducing the UAC security places your
> machine more at risk and should be avoided. They have then offered their
> solutions which seem to be either moving the folder or changing the
> settings of the folder. Both parties are then are able to switch UAC back
> to normal and VA still works.

Correct. Reducing or turning off UAC is a /really/ bad idea.

> I have tried both ways and given it a good go too, spent a couple of hours
> on it. For me, neither system works properly or at all.
> 
> Moving the folder is the kiss of death, from them on it can't find the
> Acorn hard drive and so will not boot. Obviously, this needs configuration
> changes to make this work, so that it knows where to look for the hard
> drive and probably other stuff.

I'm not a Virtual Acorn user, so this is from a distant memory. However...

Isn't this set from Virtual Acorn's configuration? Start it windowed (or use
Alt-Enter to switch from full screen), then look in the Windows-side menu
bar for the Config option. Somewhere in that will let you set the location
of HostFS, unless it's changed since I last had the misfortune to use VA.

> Changing security permissions to give everyone and their dog full control
> doesn't suppress the security nags.

It's not a great idea anyway.
 
> For some odd reason there appears to be some reluctance for people who
> have succeeded in this venture to specify exactly what they did so that
> others can do it or am getting paranoid?

I can't help thinking that it would be good if Aaron just fixed it properly
in an update. I mean, the concept of user data folders isn't exactly a new
one for Windows, and he's had about 10 years to catch up...

It's also not even vaguely difficult to fix, as the Windows APIs make it
trivial to find the location of a user's writable data areas.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

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#13531

In article <mpro.nzo0dp07b2vk30369.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> I can't help thinking that it would be good if Aaron just fixed it
> properly in an update. I mean, the concept of user data folders isn't
> exactly a new one for Windows, and he's had about 10 years to catch up...

It has been fixed, see my other post.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#13532

On 20 Dec, Stuart wrote in message
    <553508b0d3Spambin@argonet.co.uk>:

> In article <mpro.nzo0dp07b2vk30369.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
>    Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I can't help thinking that it would be good if Aaron just fixed it
> > properly in an update. I mean, the concept of user data folders isn't
> > exactly a new one for Windows, and he's had about 10 years to catch
> > up...
> 
> It has been fixed, see my other post.

Where do modern copies of VA put HostFS, then? And is the executable itself
correctly stored in C:\Program Files where it belongs?

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

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#13537

In article <mpro.nzo3d108sjud40369.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> Where do modern copies of VA put HostFS, then? And is the executable
> itself correctly stored in C:\Program Files where it belongs?

As I'm still using XP, I haven't upgraded so I cannot answer the question.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#13538

In article <553518e7f2Spambin@argonet.co.uk>,
   Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <mpro.nzo3d108sjud40369.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
>    Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> > Where do modern copies of VA put HostFS, then? And is the executable
> > itself correctly stored in C:\Program Files where it belongs?

> As I'm still using XP, I haven't upgraded so I cannot answer the
> question.

It doesn't belong in Program Files, it belongs where the User of the
computer wants to put it.

The only thing I allow to install in Prog Files is anything MS or System
related, all else goes in C:\Apps  a directory I create in the first
instance when I set up my PCs.

So VRPC here is installed in C:\Apps\VRPC\ and that's where the .exe
resides.

Same with RPCEmu, Firefox, OvPro for windows, etc...

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#13588

Dave Symes wrote:
> The only thing I allow to install in Prog Files is anything MS or System
> related, all else goes in C:\Apps a directory I create in the first
> instance when I set up my PCs.
> So VRPC here is installed in C:\Apps\VRPC\ and that's where the .exe
> resides.

Hear hear! C:\Apps\Emulators over here, along with C:\Apps\Graphics,
C:\Apps\Programming, C:\Apps\Internet, C:\Apps\Disk&File, etc.

jgh

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#13589

In article <fe78d9b7-d055-4ade-aaff-dad23b46c19b@googlegroups.com>,
   <jgh@mdfs.net> wrote:
> Dave Symes wrote:
> > The only thing I allow to install in Prog Files is anything MS or
> > System related, all else goes in C:\Apps a directory I create in the
> > first instance when I set up my PCs. So VRPC here is installed in
> > C:\Apps\VRPC\ and that's where the .exe resides.

> Hear hear! C:\Apps\Emulators over here, along with C:\Apps\Graphics,
> C:\Apps\Programming, C:\Apps\Internet, C:\Apps\Disk&File, etc.

> jgh

Blimey jgh., you are the only other person I know off (Guess there must be
others somewhere) who bucks the MS requirement.

Cred man...   ;-)

Best wishes for the now starting new year.
Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#13590

Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <fe78d9b7-d055-4ade-aaff-dad23b46c19b@googlegroups.com>,
>    <jgh@mdfs.net> wrote:

> > Hear hear! C:\Apps\Emulators over here, along with C:\Apps\Graphics,
> > C:\Apps\Programming, C:\Apps\Internet, C:\Apps\Disk&File, etc.

> Blimey jgh., you are the only other person I know off (Guess there must be
> others somewhere) who bucks the MS requirement.

s/MS requirement/improved security/

-- 
Vince M Hudd
Soft Rock Software

Don't forget to vote in the 2015 RISC OS Awards:
www.riscosawards.co.uk/vote2015.html

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#13600

Vince M Hudd wrote:
> > > Hear hear! C:\Apps\Emulators over here, along with C:\Apps\Graphics,
> > > C:\Apps\Programming, C:\Apps\Internet, C:\Apps\Disk&File, etc.
> 
> > Blimey jgh., you are the only other person I know of (Guess there must
> > be others somewhere) who bucks the MS requirement.
> 
> s/MS requirement/improved security/

C:\Apps still has 'world read'+'system read/write', it's just set up to
avoid Microsoft's enthusiasm for destroying the concept of hierarchial
data storage. For instance, the preponderance, encouraged my MS, for
most users to dump *everything* in 'Desktop' and *everything* in Start->
Programs.

jgh

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#13615

jgh@mdfs.net wrote:
> Vince M Hudd wrote:

[using another location instead of C:\Program Files]
 
> > s/MS requirement/improved security/
 
> C:\Apps still has 'world read'+'system read/write', 

Okay, so you've set the permissions more sensibly - I'd contend that most
typical users wouldn't, however.

(Does that not still cause VRPC/UAC issues, though? The reason the "new
version" of VRPC defaults to installing the emulator somewhere else is to
sidestep the issue, as has already been discussed.)

> it's just set up to avoid Microsoft's enthusiasm for destroying the
> concept of hierarchial data storage.

This strikes me as a completely nonsensical reason. If you don't like the
way things are arranged in Program Files, and you are capable of moving
things to a folder called Apps, you are just as capable of rearranging them
within Program Files.

Changing the location of the top level directory doesn't change how things
are placed within it - in either case, it is down to you and/or the
installers for the programs. (A good one will allow you to override the
defaults - and those defaults are defined by whoever is responsible for the
software you are installing).

It strikes me your choice is more a case of thumbing your nose at Microsoft
"just because". (Nothing wrong with that, of course - I'd be a hypocrite to
suggest otherwise.)

> For instance, the preponderance, encouraged my MS, for most users to dump
> *everything* in 'Desktop'

In what way has Microsoft ever encouraged that? (Stupidly) making it a
little too easy is a vastly different thing to encouraging it.

> and *everything* in Start-> Programs.

For as long as I've been using a Start Menu - i.e. since it first appeared -
mine has had things arranged on it in a sensible hierarchy (and very little
on the 'Desktop') - although since Windows 8, I've begrudgingly learned to
live without it.

As with installers having a default path within Program Files, they usually
have a default path on the Start Menu. If a crap installer doesn't let you
choose where the shortcut should appear, how is that MS's fault, given that
the installer *could* very easily have been written to provide that choice?

I've used plenty of installers over the years (obviously) and I've found
some that are truly crap and don't offer you the choice[1], some that are
crap but accidentally allow their defaults to be overwritten[2], and some
well written ones that allow the tree to be navigated and new directories
(submenus) to be created.

[1] Let them install where they want, then move the Start Menu entries
around; it allow[s|ed] drag and drop.

[2] Knowing that the Start Menu is a directory tree helps here - so when the
Start Menu location is a writable text field, you can type in the path you
want, though sometimes for this to work might need any new folders to be
created first. It varies.

Of course, the closest match to the Start Menu on RISC OS is the Apps folder
- which if you use it (unless you take extra steps and/or don't access it
from its icon bar icon) offers a wonderful hierarchy of... every application
in the one window.

Feck me, I'm defending Microsoft! I feel dirty.

Followups set.
-- 
Vince M Hudd
Soft Rock Software

Don't forget to vote in the 2015 RISC OS Awards:
www.riscosawards.co.uk/vote2015.html

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