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Getting close to raspberry pi time

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  Getting close to raspberry pi time Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-01-11 21:39 +0000
    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Martin Hansen <mhh@shrewsbury.org.uk> - 2012-01-12 01:11 -0800
      Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-12 15:26 +0000
      Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-01-12 16:03 +0000
        Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Mark Beerling <invalid@online.de> - 2012-01-12 17:57 +0100
          Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-01-14 17:37 +0000
            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-14 21:02 +0000
              Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 02:51 +0100
                Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-15 02:44 +0000
                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 15:45 +0100
                    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-15 17:48 +0000
                      Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 06:24 +0100
                        Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-01-16 08:43 +0000
                          Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 19:48 +0100
                            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-01-16 19:52 +0000
                            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-16 20:37 +0000
                              Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 07:38 +0100
                                Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 08:33 +0000
                                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-01-17 10:20 +0000
                                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-17 11:47 +0000
                                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-01-17 20:11 +0000
                                    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 21:17 +0000
                                    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-17 23:10 +0000
                                Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-01-17 10:23 +0000
                                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> - 2012-01-17 11:32 +0000
                                Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-17 11:52 +0000
                                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 12:18 +0000
                                    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-17 22:54 +0000
                                      Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-01-18 10:16 +0000
                                        Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Bryn Evans <d@a.invalid> - 2012-01-18 14:42 +0000
                  Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 12:31 +0000
                    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-17 23:04 +0000
                      Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 09:28 +0000
                        Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-18 12:41 +0000
                          Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 15:50 +0000
                            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-18 21:10 +0000
                            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-01-18 23:54 +0000
                            Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-01-21 18:05 +0000
                              Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time (OT) Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> - 2012-01-21 18:55 +0000
                              Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-01-21 20:22 +0000
    Re: Getting close to raspberry pi time "Ste (news)" <steve@revi11.plus.com> - 2012-01-14 17:42 +0000

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#3279 — Getting close to raspberry pi time

Production is under way now :)

Anyone know the state of play for RICO OS flavouring in the pi?

-- 
Will J G

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#3283

On Jan 11, 9:39 pm, Folderol <folde...@ukfsn.org> wrote:
> Production is under way now :)
>
> Anyone know the state of play for RICO OS flavouring in the pi?
>
> --
> Will J G

Last I heard there were on going licensing issues;
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/distributions/risc-os-on-raspberry-pi/page-2/#p25164
I suspect Raspberry Pi will end up being too busy to be bothered with
this nonsense.

I'll post news as soon as I get any on RISCOScode.

In the meantime, there is an ePetition linked to from RISCOScode to
sign if you are
as angry as I am that Inland Revenue rules meant the Pi will NOT be
made in the UK.

Essentially, electrical components entering the UK are taxed, but an
assembled
circuit board is not. Result : Government does not get the money
anyway and UK
manufacturing does not get the work (with a recession looming). Nuts!

Regards,
Martin
http://www.RISCOScode.com

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#3290

Martin Hansen wrote:
> there is an ePetition linked to from RISCOScode to sign
> if you are as angry as I am that Inland Revenue rules meant the Pi will
> NOT be made in the UK.
> Essentially, electrical components entering the UK are taxed, but an
> assembled circuit board is not. Result : Government does not get the money
> anyway and UK manufacturing does not get the work (with a recession
> looming). Nuts!

More or less the whole of the tax regime is nuts - this is just a
v. tiny e.g. of it.

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#3291

In article <6de71dd2-9838-4b89-9aed-c2b80e287c45@u20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Hansen <URL:mailto:mhh@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 9:39 pm, Folderol <folde...@ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > Production is under way now :)
> >
> > Anyone know the state of play for RICO OS flavouring in the pi?
> >
> > --
> > Will J G
> 
> Last I heard there were on going licensing issues;
> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum/distributions/risc-os-on-raspberry-pi/page-2/#p25164
> I suspect Raspberry Pi will end up being too busy to be bothered with
> this nonsense.
> 
> I'll post news as soon as I get any on RISCOScode.
> 
> In the meantime, there is an ePetition linked to from RISCOScode to
> sign if you are
> as angry as I am that Inland Revenue rules meant the Pi will NOT be
> made in the UK.

It is EU rules and has been for many years, not a recent UK matter. This has
been pointed out by me and others in the RPi forum but many people seem to
be ignoring facts:-(

> Essentially, electrical components entering the UK are taxed, but an
> assembled
> circuit board is not. Result : Government does not get the money
> anyway and UK
> manufacturing does not get the work (with a recession looming). Nuts!

I suspect there must be some logic to it as it has been stuck to for many
years (10-15?) though it beats me, what it is!


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#3293

In message <ant121647e61pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
          Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <6de71dd2-9838-4b89-9aed-c2b80e287c45@u20g2000yqb.googlegro
> ups.com>,
> Martin Hansen <URL:mailto:mhh@shrewsbury.org.uk> wrote:

...

>> as angry as I am that Inland Revenue rules meant the Pi will NOT be
>> made in the UK.

> It is EU rules and has been for many years, not a recent UK matter. This has
> been pointed out by me and others in the RPi forum but many people seem to
> be ignoring facts:-(

>> Essentially, electrical components entering the UK are taxed, but an
>> assembled
>> circuit board is not. Result : Government does not get the money
>> anyway and UK
>> manufacturing does not get the work (with a recession looming). Nuts!

> I suspect there must be some logic to it as it has been stuck to for many
> years (10-15?) though it beats me, what it is!

I can remember Clive Sinclair complaining about this ca. 30 years ago.


-- 
Mark Beerling

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#3313

In article <a60a7c5052.freenet@beerling.online.de>, Mark Beerling
<invalid@online.de> wrote:
> In message <ant121647e61pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk> Chris Evans
>           <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> > I suspect there must be some logic to it as it has been stuck to for
> > many years (10-15?) though it beats me, what it is!

> I can remember Clive Sinclair complaining about this ca. 30 years ago.

ISTR those rules were introduced to protect europe's component industry.
If your response is 'what component industry?' please write to your MP.

-- 
Tim Hill of timil.com . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@

... "Sleep seldom visits sorrow; when it doth, it is a comforter" Tempest, Act ii, Sc.1

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#3316

Tim Hill wrote:

>>> I suspect there must be some logic to it as it has been stuck to for
>>> many years (10-15?) though it beats me, what it is!

>> I can remember Clive Sinclair complaining about this ca. 30 years ago.

> ISTR those rules were introduced to protect europe's component industry.
> If your response is 'what component industry?' please write to your MP.

See here: http://www.truefreetrade.org/pft7.htm

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#3318

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:02:58 +0000, SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> 
wrote:

> See here: http://www.truefreetrade.org/pft7.htm

tl;dr

Is there a less pretentious, less verbose version for those of us 
with short attention spans?


Best wishes,

Ri...where was I?...ck  :-)

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#3319

Rick Murray wrote:
> SG nws wrote:
>> See here: http://www.truefreetrade.org/pft7.htm

> Is there a less pretentious, less verbose version for those of us with
> short attention spans?

Trade is not invasion. It does not involve aggression on one side and
resistance on the other, but mutual consent and gratification. There
cannot be trade unless the parties to it agree, any more than there can
be a quarrel unless the parties to it differ.... Civilized nations,
however, do not use their armies and fleets to open one anoother's ports
to trade. What they use their armies and fleets for is, when they
quarrel, to close one another's ports. And their effort then is to
prevent the carrying in of things more than the bringing out of things
-- importing rather than exporting. For a people can be more quickly
injured by preventing them from getting things than by preventing them
from sending things away. Trade does not require force. Free trade
consists simply in letting people buy and sell as they want to buy and
sell. It is protection that requires force, for it consists in
preventing people from doing what they want to do. Protective tariffs
are as much the application of force as blockading squadrons, and their
object is the same -- to prevent trade. The difference between the two
is that blockading squadrons are a means whereby nations seek to prevent
their enemies from trading; protective tariffs are a means whereby
nations seek to prevent their own people from trading. What protection
teaches us, is to do to ourselves in time of peace what enemies seek to
do to us in time of war. - Henry George

Shorter: If protection made sense, why not put up tariff barriers between
say Manchester and London?

Or shorter still - trade, good; protection, bad.

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#3322

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 02:44:05 +0000, SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> 
wrote:

> ; protective tariffs are a means whereby
> nations seek to prevent their own people from trading.

That's sort of what I thought this was getting at. Which leads to the 
obvious question - what sort of government would implement a means to 
prevent its own people from effectively trading?

If the RPi is made overseas as a result, hasn't this just 
demonstrated that such a policy is ultimately damaging? [employment 
going elsewhere while unemployment rising locally...]


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#3324

Rick Murray wrote:
> SG nws wrote:
>> protective tariffs are a means whereby nations seek to prevent their
>> own people from trading.

> That's sort of what I thought this was getting at. Which leads to the
> obvious question - what sort of government would implement a means to
> prevent its own people from effectively trading?

And does that not lead to the obvious answer?

> If the RPi is made overseas as a result, hasn't this just demonstrated
> that such a policy is ultimately damaging? [employment going elsewhere
> while unemployment rising locally...]

It would seem to. :-)

"We cannot safely leave politics to politicians, or political economics 
 to college professors. The people themselves must think, because the 
 people alone can act.  - Henry George 

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#3331

On 15/01/2012 18:48, SG nws wrote:

> And does that not lead to the obvious answer?

Pretty much.


> "We cannot safely leave politics to politicians, or political economics
>   to college professors. The people themselves must think, because the
>   people alone can act.  - Henry George

Not necessarily. Hold a referendum on Europe and watch the British screw 
themselves over having been given two-plus decades of reasons why 
everything that goes wrong in the world is either Europe's fault, or 
something to do with the French.

Sometimes we need to be protected from ourselves. But right now, it's 
looking more like we need to be protected from our own governments.


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#3333

In article <4f13b480$0$5695$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>,
   Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > "We cannot safely leave politics to politicians, or
> >   political economics to college professors. The people
> >   themselves must think, because the people alone can
> >   act.  - Henry George

> Not necessarily. Hold a referendum on Europe and watch the
> British screw themselves over having been given two-plus
> decades of reasons why everything that goes wrong in the
> world is either Europe's fault, or something to do with
> the French.

The crucial point in the Henry George quote is "The people
themselves must think". Unfortunately, they, by and large,
do not, often preferring to be spoon-fed tendentious rubbish
by those with a particular point-of-view.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#3337

On 16/01/2012 09:43, Russell Hafter News wrote:

> The crucial point in the Henry George quote is "The people
> themselves must think". Unfortunately, they, by and large,
> do not, often preferring to be spoon-fed tendentious rubbish
> by those with a particular point-of-view.

My physics teacher told me to question everything, and not believe what 
was written - even in a textbook - until I've proved it to myself.
I gather he was something of a rarity, and if there are others who 
educate children to believe that which they are told by a supposed 
authority figure, how are they to know any difference?

Indeed, looking at the sudden storm in a teacup that is the idea of a 
referendum for Scottish independence, one might suggest that most people 
are NOT aware of all of the facts, and most carry a romantic motion 
for/against Scotland. This isn't to say the country shouldn't vote, but 
only once the facts are clear and available for everybody to analyse and 
discuss. Not because some jerk in Westminster woke up with a headache 
and thought "what can I screw up today?".


Problem is, everybody has a vested interest these days. From the 
Opposition to the ConDems to The Sun to the guy in the pub. And I'm sure 
they will tell you everything they want you to hear while carefully 
editing out the rest. How is Joe Average supposed to make sense of all 
the conflicting nonsense, to arrive at a logical conclusion?


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#3338

In article
<4f1470ff$0$5692$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>, Rick
Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/01/2012 09:43, Russell Hafter News wrote:

> > The crucial point in the Henry George quote is "The
> > people themselves must think". Unfortunately, they, by
> > and large, do not, often preferring to be spoon-fed
> > tendentious rubbish by those with a particular
> > point-of-view.

> My physics teacher told me to question everything, and
> not believe what was written - even in a textbook - until
> I've proved it to myself. I gather he was something of a
> rarity, and if there are others who educate children to
> believe that which they are told by a supposed authority
> figure, how are they to know any difference?

That is a difficult one. TBH most (all) education systems
simply do not have the time for everyone to question
everything.

On the other hand, I can give you a seriously worrying (from
the point of view of getting voters to think about what they
are voting for) incident from the 1987 general election
campaign...

I was out canvassing with three or four others, walking
through an estate on the edge of Dunblane. Suddenly a window
was thrown open and a woman shouted at at one of us "Are you
no' Alison H.....n?" Alison acknowledged that she was. "Your
husband's on the telly, aye?" Alison again acknowledged that
that was true. "Whit party's youse all for? I'm voting or
you." The chief canvasser told her which party we were
campaigning for, and then made another tick on her list.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#3339

Rick Murray wrote:
> Problem is, everybody has a vested interest these days. From the
> Opposition to the ConDems to The Sun to the guy in the pub. And I'm
> sure they will tell you everything they want you to hear while
> carefully editing out the rest. How is Joe Average supposed to make
> sense of all the conflicting nonsense, to arrive at a logical
> conclusion?

He can't - as long as the operative filter is his vested interest: he
will form a judgement - right or wrong - based on this vested
interest. And I will add that a /logical/ conclusion will often not be
the right conclusion for logic works on polarities - it can only weigh
two factors at a time - one against the other. The real world is much
more complex.

How then - on what basis - can one form a right judgement?

How is a (law court) judge supposed to act?

Is this the basis on which one is encouraged to judge?

And, in trying to determine the shape of an object we are not going to
get very far if we are confined to a consideration of whether it is
triangular or circular when, in fact, the object is square.
(I have in mind here, stuff like "Newsnight".)

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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#3343

On 16/01/2012 21:37, SG nws wrote:

> triangular or circular when, in fact, the object is square.

Meh, a square is just a Friday triangle. ;-)


Seriously though - The People should decide, but we've shown that The 
People cannot be relied upon to make the correct decision, working by 
emotions or, as Russell mentioned, who-knows-who rather than anything 
resembling functional logic.

Where does this leave democracy?

This is probably something politicians are *supposed* to do, but - as 
was to be expected - it all get a bit corrupted. Maybe rather than 
fixing The People, or The Question, it is The System itself that needs 
fixing? Certainly one that holds the government to greater 
accountability to the people it represents would be a good start.


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#3345

In article <4f151779$0$5700$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>,
   Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> Seriously though - The People should decide, but we've shown that The 
> People cannot be relied upon to make the correct decision, working by 
> emotions or, as Russell mentioned, who-knows-who rather than anything 
> resembling functional logic.

> Where does this leave democracy?

All my life, well until recently, I've been in favour of proportional
representation as an electoral system, however, just before the referendum
a while back, we saw a version of PR in action with the election of the
new Labour party leader, whereby the lowest common denominator won.

Regardless of your political leanings, the current incumbent is probably
second only to Michael Foot in the LCD stakes.

Thereafter we had the referendum about the sh one tee crippled and useless
system proposed by the politicians.

For both myself and Fay (Both as already noted lifelong advocated of PR)
it was deluge of cold water, and it caused us to re-assess.

Where does this leave democracy... In a bit of a hole, but at least we do
have a democracy unlike a lot of other places we see on the box.

I guess one small positive ATM. During this economically bad time, we do
at least have two parties pulling *mostly* in the same direction.

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#3346

In article <5252e11dc2dave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > Where does this leave democracy?

> All my life, well until recently, I've been in favour of
> proportional representation as an electoral system,
> however, just before the referendum a while back, we saw
> a version of PR in action with the election of the new
> Labour party leader, whereby the lowest common
> denominator won.

[Snip]

> Thereafter we had the referendum about the sh one tee
> crippled and useless system proposed by the politicians.

> For both myself and Fay (Both as already noted lifelong
> advocated of PR) it was deluge of cold water, and it
> caused us to re-assess.

I could write huge amounts on this, but will not as it is
really too OT, but...

The AV referendum was a farce. Perhaps we need a body to
which all campaign statements have to be passed in advance
for checking as to whether they are actually true. I could
nominate half-a-dozen people from this group who would do
the job admirably.
:-)

A good arguement for proper PR (see below) comes from my own
experience. From 1980 to 1999 I lived in a marginal
constituency with (IMO) an absolutely apalling person as MP.
I was always forced to vote (and canvass) for the person I
(and the papers) thought most likely to get rid of him, but
only in 1997 did we succeed.

Now I live in a pretty safe constituency, so I can vote for
who I would like to see elected, albeit in the pretty
certain knowledge that they will not be.

I have been amused by the recent comments from certain tory
anti-Europe-nutters about why cannot we become just like
Switzerland.

They clearly have not looked at the Swiss political system
at Federal level:

1. The Swiss Federal government has nothing like the power
of the Westminster parliament as most things of every day
importance are decided at cantonal or community level.
Income Tax, for example, is constitutionally forbidden to
the federal government.

2. The Swiss House of Commons equivalent is elected by
proportional representation, using an *open* list system.
This means that while you vote for a party, you also
specifically vote for individuals. If there is someone in
your pary that you cannot stand, you can cross them off the
list. If there is someone that you think would be really
good, then you cn vote for them twice. You can also add
people from a different party to your list if you want.

3. By convention, all governments are always coalitions of
the three or four largest parties, so you always have two
social democrats as well as one or two liberals, one or two
christian democrats etc.

I now promise to keep quiet on this.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#3351

Dave Symes wrote:
> one small positive ATM. During this economically bad time, we do
> at least have two parties pulling *mostly* in the same direction.

So the diresction is irrelevant?!

-- 
Stewart Goldwater
http://janusg.co.nr

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