Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register


Groups > comp.software-eng > #3872

Re: is the ct-thesis cooked?

Subject Re: is the ct-thesis cooked?
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.software-eng
References (24 earlier) <10kj7v9$33o1s$2@dont-email.me> <DNbbR.5237$px9c.175@fx37.iad> <10kjkjo$33o1t$11@dont-email.me> <OUebR.122036$UIC2.99587@fx11.iad> <10kkd7v$r0n$1@dont-email.me>
From Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID <_oEbR.400756$rbZb.321304@fx17.iad> (permalink)
Organization Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Show all headers | View raw


On 1/18/26 11:51 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 1/18/26 4:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 1/18/26 4:50 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>> On 1/18/26 12:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/26 1:15 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/26 4:05 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/26 1:05 AM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/17/26 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/17/26 10:14 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good luck starving to death when your money runs out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one can only hope for so much sometimes 🙏
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I guess you don't understand the rules of logic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> also not an argument
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, YOUR PROBLEM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it's pretty crazy i can produce a machine (even if u haven't 
>>>>>>>>>>> understood it yet) that produces a consistent deterministic 
>>>>>>>>>>> result that is "not a computation".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because you get that result only by equivocating on your 
>>>>>>>>>> definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the context is part of the inpt to make the output 
>>>>>>>>>> determistic from the input, then they fail to be usable as 
>>>>>>>>>> sub- computations as we can't control that context part of the 
>>>>>>>>>> input.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When we look at just the controllable input for a sub- 
>>>>>>>>>> computation, the output is NOT a deterministic function of 
>>>>>>>>>> that inut.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> not sure what the fuck it's doing if it's not a computation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Its using hidden inputs that the caller can't control.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> which we do all the time in normal programming, something which 
>>>>>>>>> apparently u think the tHeOrY oF CoMpUtInG fails to encapsulate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, but that isn't about computations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pretty crazy we do a bunch "non-computating" in the normal act 
>>>>>>>>> of programming computers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I have said, "Computatations" is NOT about how modern 
>>>>>>>> computers work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess you are just showing that you fundamentally don't 
>>>>>>>> understand the problem field you are betting your life on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> one would presume the fundamental theory of computing would be 
>>>>>>> general enough to encapsulate everything computed by real world 
>>>>>>> computers, no???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember, the fundamental theory of Computing PREDATES the 
>>>>>> computer as you know it.
>>>>>
>>>>> so ur saying it's outdated and needs updating in regards to new 
>>>>> things we do with computers that apparently turing machines as a 
>>>>> model don't have variations of ...
>>>>
>>>> No, it still handles that which it was developed for.
>>>
>>> well it was developed to be a general theory of computing, and 
>>> apparently modern computing has transcended that theory ...
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> THe way modern processors work, "sub-routines" can fail to be 
>> computations, but whole programs will tend to be. Sub-routines CAN be 
>> built with care to fall under its guidance.
> 
> lol, what are they even if not "computations"???

not-computations

> 
>>
>> THere ARE advantages to doing so, as that DOES add a lot of 
>> correctness provability to the code.
>>
>> The biggest part of code not being analyzable/provable is when it 
>> deviates from the requirements of being a computation.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> or what ... someone writes down a fundamental theory and then it 
>>>>> just sticks around like an unchanging law when u haven't even 
>>>>> proven the ct- thesis correct???
>>>>
>>>> Why does it need to change?
>>>
>>> why does the fundamental theory of computing need to encapsulate all 
>>> that is possible within computing??
>>
>> That is like asking about shouldn't number theory talk about 
>> everything mathematics.
>>
>>>
>>> idk, what's what i thot a fundamental theory is supposed to do, but i 
>>> guess you don't agree???
>>
>> Nope, it handles ONE ASPECT of the general field.
>>
>> We not only have Computation Theory, but we also get things like 
>> Complexity Theory,
> 
> complexity theory is built on top of the fundamentals of computing ...

Yes, just like computability/comptation theory.

The field of "Computer Science" has a bunch of subfields/theories within it.

You seem to confuse Computation THeory with fundamental of computing.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> like, if the fundamental theory doesn't encapsulate everything done 
>>> within computing ... then idk why u think the halting problem should 
>>> apply to modern computing???
>>
>> Because it DOES present a limitation of what modern computers can do.
>>
>> After all, every non-computation can be converted into a computation 
>> by forcing all the "hidden inputs" to be considered as inputs.
> 
> lol schrodinger's computation

Model conversion.

> 
>>
>> This just shows the limitation in controlability of the interface.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If a new problem comes up, a new theory might be needed to handle it.
>>>
>>> or maybe new techniques could rectify old problems ...
>>>
>>> talk about a lack of curiosity. you confusing regurgitation of route 
>>> learning with actual intelligence, but i suppose that's all u need 
>>> working for a military contractor...
>>>
>>> military intelligence is an oxymoron, remember?
>>
>> You might be surprised about that statement.
>>
>> You don't want a "smart bomb" locked onto you.
> 
> they also don't want that if they know what's best for them
> 
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All you are doing is showing your ignorance of what you are 
>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Showing that you really don't understand what you are talking 
>>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems you just assume you are allowed to change the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition, perhaps because you never bothered to learn it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is sort of like the problem with a RASP machine 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> architecture, sub- machines on such a platform are not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily computations, if they use the machines 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capability to pass information not allowed by the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rules of a computation. Your RTM similarly break that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, Computations are NOT just what some model of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> processing produce, but specifically is defined based 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on producing a specific mapping of input to output, so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if (even as a sub- machine) a specific input might 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce different output, your architecture is NOT 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing a computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And without that property, using what the machine 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do, becomes a pretty worthless criteria, as you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't actually talk much about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the output is still well-defined and deterministic at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> runtime,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not from the "input" to the piece of algorithm, as it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> includes "hidden" state from outside that input stored 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere in the machine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context-dependent computations are still computations. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fact TMs don't capture them is an indication that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ct- thesis may be false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not unless the "context" is made part of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "input", and if you do that, you find that since you are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to make it so the caller can't just define that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context, your system is less than turing complete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your system break to property of building a computation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the concatination of sub-computations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...including a context-dependent sub-computation makes ur 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overall computation context-dependent too ... if u dont 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want a context- dependent computation don't include 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent sub- computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which makes it not a computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fallacy of equivocation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm not shifting meaning dude. i'm directly claiming it's a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinct type of computation that has been ignored by the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory of computing thus far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice try tho
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don't actually do that, as you then claim to be in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same field to solve a problem specified in the field.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, if you want to try to define a new field based on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a new definition of what a computation is, go ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it's not a new field, it's a mild extension of turing 
>>>>>>>>>>> machines, with one new operation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, it is, as you are changing essential core defintions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is like saying that spherical geometery is the same field 
>>>>>>>>>> as plane geometry, we just added a small extension.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> what the did the nut say when it was all grown up???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to work out your formal definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Show how the system actually works out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Show what it can show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And show why anyone would want to use it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in order to be complete and coherent, certain 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computations *must* have context-awareness and are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore context- dependent. these computations aren't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally computable by TMs because TMs lack the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary mechanisms to grant context- awareness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you require some computations to not be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual computations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless u can produce some actual proof of some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation that actually breaks in context-dependence, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than just listing things u assume are true, i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't believe u know what ur talking about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A computation produces the well defined result based on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the INPUT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> context-dependent computation simply expands it's input to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> include the entire computing context, not just the formal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameters. it's still well defined and it grants us access 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to meta computation that is not as expressible in TM 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ct-thesis is cooked dude
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, because you are just putting yourself outside the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> field it is written about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't change the definition of a computation, and still 
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk about things as if you were in the same system.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That just shows you are smoking some bad weed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your context, being not part of the input, can't change 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the well- defined result.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should 1 + 2 become 4 on Thursdays? of it asked of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gingerbread man?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ur overgeneralizing. just become some computation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent doesn't mean all computation is context- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another fallacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but nothing that actually is a computation can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ur just arguing in circles with this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, you are just lying to yourself to try to disagree with the 
>>>>>>>>>> definition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is saying you disagree with the definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go ahead, try to define an alternate version of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Computation Theory where the result can depend on things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that aren't part of the actual input to the machine, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what you can show that is useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem becomes that you can't really say anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about what you will get, since you don't know what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hidden" factors are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ??? i was very clear multiple times over what the "hidden" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> input was. there's nothing random about it, context- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependent computation is just as well-defend and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deterministic as context- independent computation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is that when you look at the computation itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (that might be imbedded into a larger computation) you don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>> know which of the infinite contexts it might be within.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> depth is not infinite for any given step,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say infinite depth, I said from infinite contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AND THAT'S WHERE REFLECT COMES IN: IT DUMPS THE FULL MACHINE 
>>>>>>>>>>> DESCRIPTION OF THE RUNNING MACHINE, THE CURRENT STATE NUMBER, 
>>>>>>>>>>> AND A FULL COPY OF THE TAPE ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And WHICH machine description does it dump? The problem is the 
>>>>>>>>>> machine description isn't unique.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> all the info required to compute all configurations between 
>>>>>>>>>>> the beginning and the current step of the computation, which 
>>>>>>>>>>> can allow it to compute anything that is "knowable" about 
>>>>>>>>>>> where it is in the computation at time of the REFLECT 
>>>>>>>>>>> operation...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And where did it store that information?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remember, the starting tape was unbounded in length (but finite).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The machine itself is bounded in size, plus the unbounded tape.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the problem is ur literally not reading what i'm writing to 
>>>>>>>>>>> an appreciable degree of comprehension, being too focused on 
>>>>>>>>>>> isolated responses that lack overall *contextual* awareness 
>>>>>>>>>>> of the conversation...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, you are ignoring the requirements to implement what you 
>>>>>>>>>> desire.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus, what you can say about that "computation" is very 
>>>>>>>>>>>> limited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to understand that a key point of the theory 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is about being able to build complicate things from simpler 
>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It comes out of how logic works, we build complicated 
>>>>>>>>>>>> theories based on simpler theories and the axioms. If those 
>>>>>>>>>>>> simplere things were "context dependent" it makes it much 
>>>>>>>>>>>> harder for them to specifiy what they actually do in all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts, and to then use them in all contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i'm sorry context-dependent computation aren't as simple 🫩🫩🫩
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which is why you need to actually FULLY DEFINE them, and admit 
>>>>>>>>>> it is a new field.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well it'd be great if someone fucking helped me out there, but 
>>>>>>>>> all i get is a bunch adversarial dismissal cause i'm stuck on a 
>>>>>>>>> god forsaking planet of a fucking half-braindead clowns
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Help has been offered, 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> not constructively, ur barely even paying attention to what i write
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, perhaps the problem is I assume you at least attempt to learn 
>>>>>> what you are trying to talk about.
>>>>>
>>>>> u don't even know what constructive help is to be frank
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm not ur student, ur not my teachers, this isn't a hierarchical 
>>>>> relationship,
>>>>>
>>>>> and until u recognize that ur going to continue to be non-constructive
>>>>
>>>> YOU were the one asking for help to develop your ideas, if only by 
>>>> posting them and asking for comments.
>>>>
>>>> I have just pointed out the fundamental errors in your analysis
>>>>
>>>> You need to make a choice of directions.
>>>>
>>>> Either you work in the currently established theory, so you can use 
>>>> things in it, and see if you can develop something new.
>>>>
>>>> Or, you branch out and start a brand new theory, and start at the 
>>>> ground floor, fully define what you mean by things, show what you 
>>>> ideas can do, and why that would be useful.
>>>
>>> false dichotomy, add that to growing list of fallacies u shat out at me
>>
>> No real dichotomy.
> 
> no, i don't have to totally rewrite the system to transcend a few 
> classical limits.

Sure you do. You need to figure out what might have changed.

Remove the first floor of your building and see what happens.

> 
>>
>> Follow the rules and you can stay in the system.
>>
>> Change anything and you are outside, and need to show what still can 
>> apply.
>>
>> To say you can change the foundation but keep the building is just lying.
> 
> you can in fact replace foundation without even lifting the house bro

Not in logic.

I guess you don't understand the use of figures of speach.

> 
> i'm not invalidating most of computing, just gunning for a few classical 
> limits that don't actually do anything interesting anyways. not really 
> sure why people are to bent up about them

And, if you don't understand what those changes do, you don't know if 
your system is valid.

> 
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems you want to change the foundation, but keep most of the 
>>>> building on top, without even knowing how that building was built 
>>>> and how it connects to the foundation.
>>>>
>>>> That just doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but you just reject it as it doesn't match your ideas, largely 
>>>>>>>> because you don't understand what you are trying to get in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When your errors are explained, just just curse back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can't fix stupid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You aren't stuck on a planet of clowns, you are the clown that 
>>>>>>>> doesn't understand the world.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> if the simplest theory was always correct we'd still be using 
>>>>>>>>>>> newtonian gravity for everything
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can't change a thing and it still be the same thing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I guess that truth is something you don't understand
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

Back to comp.software-eng | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar


Thread

Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-10 17:03 -0600
  Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-12-11 07:10 +0800
  Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error --- typo polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-10 17:53 -0600
  Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error Oleksiy Gapotchenko <alex.s.gap@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 01:24 +0100
    Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 18:39 -0600
    is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-05 23:47 -0800
      Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 19:26 -0600
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-06 19:03 -0800
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 22:33 -0600
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-07 00:56 -0800
              yes/no questions lacking a correct yes/no answer are incorrect questions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 05:50 -0600
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 07:12 -0500
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 07:06 -0500
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-12 14:09 -0800
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:16 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-12 20:21 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-13 07:09 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-13 12:33 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-14 22:43 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-15 04:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-15 22:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 01:08 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:46 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 14:21 -0800
                The essence of all Computation generically defined olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 16:58 -0600
                Re: The essence of all Computation generically defined Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 18:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 18:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 16:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 22:24 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 23:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 07:33 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 19:14 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 22:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 22:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 07:05 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 10:15 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:56 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 13:50 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 22:27 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 15:01 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 20:30 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 22:28 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 20:51 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-19 22:18 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 07:59 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-20 17:55 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 09:44 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 14:36 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:24 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 17:36 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 21:56 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:39 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 11:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:17 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 14:29 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Dude <punditster@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 13:31 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 01:12 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Dude <punditster@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 13:29 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 13:37 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 14:07 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-28 07:23 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 12:17 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 08:15 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 09:47 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 15:31 -0500
                The essence of all Computation generically defined olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 18:35 -0600
      Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 14:05 +0200
        Exactly what are deciders in the theory of computation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 15:29 -0600
      Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 17:06 -0600
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:05 -0800
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:23 -0500
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:04 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 22:50 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 01:35 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:43 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 11:45 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-27 00:00 -0800
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 20:35 -0600
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:38 -0800
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 20:53 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 19:12 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 21:42 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 20:03 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 22:06 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 21:45 -0800
    Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-06 15:23 +0200
      Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 08:02 -0600
        Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 14:10 +0200
          Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 07:06 -0600
            Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-08 12:21 +0200
              Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:18 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-10 11:25 +0200
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-11 08:32 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-11 16:16 +0000
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2026-01-11 21:00 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-12 13:05 +0200

csiph-web