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Re: What I like about programming . . .

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On 08/02/2023 9:07 pm, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> 
>> On 08/02/2023 3:03 pm, Paul N wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 9:58:29 PM UTC, JJ wrote:
>>>> If you go to any programming sub in Reddit, or any programming channel in
>>>> Discord, you'll realize that some people aren't capable of realizing that
>>>> they are wrong.
> 
> Yes, it's a rather quaint idea.  Some subjects might make it easier for
> people with open minds to discover their mistakes, but it's very far
> from being universal!

Indeed, although computer programs have proven to be singularly 
adept at proving their authors wrong!

>>> This is even more obvious in comp.theory. There is a poster there who
>>> claims to have refuted the Halting Problem proof,
>>
>> I refute it too. Bear with me.
> 
> OK...

Ta.

>>> and to have a system which can accurately determine whether a program
>>> will halt or not.
>>
>> I, too, have such a system. Bear with me.
> 
> This is a rather different claim.  The "Halting Problem proof" surely
> refers to a proof of a specific mathematical theorem, so it's not clear
> in what way any particular C program refutes it.

The refutation is in the program's output (which is always correct):

If executed, the specified program will halt.

Which it will. ALL programs halt.

> 
>>> He has a demonstration program, which he claims does not halt
> 
> His claims change, but when I last checked in he (the loon in
> comp.theory) was still being clear that the program in question halts.
> He's posted code, he's posted traces of the simulation, he's stated it
> in plain words.
> 
>> He is mistaken.
> 
> On this point, no.

The specific statement I was addressing was: "He has a 
demonstration program, which he claims does not halt"

Such a claim would be erroneous.

If he makes the opposite claim: "still being clear that the 
program in question halts", then of course he is correct in 
making that specific claim.

> 
>>> and which his detector identifies as non-halting.
>>
>> His detector errs.
>>
>>> He does however accept that when said program is run, it halts.
> 
> Just to clear up the nonsense he spouts, he claims that "non-halting" is
> the right answer because of what /would/ happen if the program were not
> stopped -- that the program in question only halts because it is stopped
> "by itself".  Yes, it's bonkers, but he maintains he's right because
> he's changed what "halting" means.

We all know what "halting" means, and we all should know that all 
programs halt.

<snip>

> OK, /I/ know you are joking, but will everyone?

No. That's part of the joy of Usenet.

> Do we want any more
> people confused about what the halting theorem is about?

Interesting exercise: attempt to justify a "yes" answer in an 
entertaining way. (I came up with three that are far too dull to 
post.)

> 
> (I know you are not a
> crank, you are just having a bit of fun).

After such kind words, I suppose I had better let go of the handle.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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Re: What I like about programming  . . . JJ <jj4public@outlook.com> - 2023-02-08 04:58 +0700
  Re: What I like about programming . . . David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-08 08:59 +0100
  Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-08 09:34 +0000
  Re: What I like about programming . . . Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2023-02-08 07:03 -0800
    Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-08 15:50 +0000
      Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-08 21:07 +0000
        Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-08 21:56 +0000
          Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-09 01:09 +0000
            Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-09 07:18 +0000
              Re: What I like about programming . . . David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-09 09:42 +0100
                Re: What I like about programming . . . "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2023-02-09 11:17 +0100
                Re: What I like about programming . . . David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-09 14:15 +0100
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-09 11:41 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-09 14:20 +0100
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-09 13:38 +0000
              Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-09 14:05 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-10 07:04 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-10 11:46 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-10 12:49 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Y A <air000000000000@ya.ee> - 2023-02-10 06:37 -0800
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-10 23:16 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-11 07:20 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-11 21:12 +0000
                Re: What I like about programming . . . Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2023-02-11 23:05 +0000

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