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old linux, newer PC, CD settings

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  old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-02-26 19:15 +0000
    Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-02-26 22:25 +0000
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:24 +0000
    Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:21 +0000
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-26 22:54 -0500
        Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-02-28 19:57 +0000
          Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 00:48 -0500
            Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-03 13:58 +0000
              Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-03 08:33 -0800
              Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 01:48 -0500
                Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-07 21:31 +0000
                  Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-07 22:29 -0500
                    Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-09 08:35 -0800
                      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28C.I874" <28C.I874@noabgba.net> - 2023-03-09 20:29 -0500
                        Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2023-03-10 03:24 +0000
                          Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28C.I864" <28C.I864@nobbgba.net> - 2023-03-10 00:27 -0500
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-10 00:32 +0000
    Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-08 21:31 +0000
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-08 21:33 +0000
        Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-09 11:06 -0800
          Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-13 15:57 +0000
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings "28C.I874" <28C.I874@noabgba.net> - 2023-03-08 20:58 -0500
    Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-11 23:12 -0800
      Re: old linux, newer PC, CD settings vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2023-03-13 15:59 +0000

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#37282 — old linux, newer PC, CD settings

What CD settings does an old (say 2005) Linux  expect to see on the CDROM?

(UEFI,ATA,SATA...)



-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37291

At Sun, 26 Feb 2023 19:15:11 -0000 (UTC) vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

> 
> What CD settings does an old (say 2005) Linux  expect to see on the CDROM?
> 
> (UEFI,ATA,SATA...)

An older Linux boot disk probably won't have the UEFI settings, so the BIOS 
should be set to "Legacy BIOS".  Otherwise it probably does not matter.  The 
SATA controller should be set to AHCI mode if possible, so there won't be 
driver issues.

> 
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                                       

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#37295

On 26/02/2023 22:25, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sun, 26 Feb 2023 19:15:11 -0000 (UTC) vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> 
>>
>> What CD settings does an old (say 2005) Linux  expect to see on the CDROM?
>>
>> (UEFI,ATA,SATA...)
> 
> An older Linux boot disk

Who mentioned a boot disk?

When live booting from a Linux install disk, nothing need be done except 
set the BIOS to boot from CDROM
When reading or writing a DVD/CD rive but not booting, none of the UEFI 
stuff is relevant.
Throwing word salad around as if UEFI and ATA were equivalent is just 
nonsense anyway




  probably won't have the UEFI settings, so the BIOS
> should be set to "Legacy BIOS".  Otherwise it probably does not matter.  The
> SATA controller should be set to AHCI mode if possible, so there won't be
> driver issues.
> 
>>
>>
>>
> 

-- 
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

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#37294

On 26/02/2023 19:15, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> What CD settings does an old (say 2005) Linux  expect to see on the CDROM?
> 
> (UEFI,ATA,SATA...)
> 
> 
> 
Whatever the motherboard comes equipped with

Ive had linux running over IDE, And SATA at least to CD roms
IIRC the installation will probe the hardware to see what is there, and 
uitilise the correct drivers.


-- 
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of 
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

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#37304

On 2/26/23 6:21 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/02/2023 19:15, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>> What CD settings does an old (say 2005) Linux  expect to see on the 
>> CDROM?
>>
>> (UEFI,ATA,SATA...)
>>
>>
>>
> Whatever the motherboard comes equipped with
> 
> Ive had linux running over IDE, And SATA at least to CD roms
> IIRC the installation will probe the hardware to see what is there, and 
> uitilise the correct drivers.


   MOST Linux's (Lini ?) will see WHATEVER is there - even
   old 5-1/4 ATA parallel-interface floppies, ISA-buss
   modems and such from the Win-3.11/95 universe.

   There are a few, aimed at "older units", that make a
   point to have all those old drivers (and you can
   flesh them out as needed to be perfectly "modern",
   build a decent server or whatever).

   Note that some old HDD's (the 5-40mb era) may NOT be
   supported because many came with more or less proprietary
   interface cards and some of those particulars are just
   lost to history. What WAS Company-X's particular take
   on a parallel interface, or SCSI ? Nobody remembers.

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#37334

I guess linuces?

But I'm trying to load knoppix 4 (quantian, actually) on a Dell Vostro 3560
and it CAN'T FIND FILESYSTEM. I had some problems with windows xp (over 7)
and fixed them by changing UEFI to legacy and SATA to ATA. I'm just asking
plenty of questions hoping I will stumble on an answer.


-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37335

On 2/28/23 2:57 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I guess linuces?
> 
> But I'm trying to load knoppix 4 (quantian, actually) on a Dell Vostro 3560
> and it CAN'T FIND FILESYSTEM. I had some problems with windows xp (over 7)
> and fixed them by changing UEFI to legacy and SATA to ATA. I'm just asking
> plenty of questions hoping I will stumble on an answer.

   Some distros DO prefer 'legacy' booting - remember to
   turn off all the Win "secure boot" crap you can find
   as well (unless you're dual-booting WITH Win of course,
   but WHY ???).

   Knoppix, for a long time, is never really MEANT to
   be installed. It's tuned to run from a CD or stick.
   I did a HDD install of a rather EARLY version, but
   since then there are MUCH better choices.

   The BRAND of PC isn't usually a big deal - except for
   finding/having the correct settings in the BIOS.
   Some "consumer" BIOS's disappear a lot of options.
   "Game" boards are your best bet - fine-tuning for
   *everything*. I'd rec ASUS ROG. Their "B" biz boards
   are really good too.

   I built a mail server in a cheap-ass Dell, and it has
   worked very well for years now. However there were
   "secret" key-presses and such required to get at the
   BIOS options to boot the correct bits. There are
   weird hidden menus with lots of VERY badly documented
   UEFI options for where the thing should ACTUALLY boot
   from. Kinda had to "best guess" and got lucky.

   I've never found a quasi-modern PC I could not coerce
   into booting a mainstream Linux one way or another.
   Some sub-laps with EEMC 'hdds' made it kinda a trial
   sometimes though. The HP I'm writing this on was one
   of those. The 'free' Winders never ran for one second,
   totally removed now, for which I'm kinda proud .....

   So ... I'm gonna ask ... WHY KNOPPIX ? There are
   a good 200 versions of Linux out there - something,
   or many somethings, to please everybody, fit every
   situation. Go to distrowatch.org and click the
   "show all" ... 200+ ranked by 'popularity'. Some
   are 'dedicated' distros like router/firewall stuff
   like IPFire or NAS disrros like OpenMediaVault (both
   very good BTW), but on the whole 100+ general-use
   distros based on Arch/Deb/Fedora/RHEL/Slack. If Knoppix
   just will NOT install on your particular box, well .....

   I have FIVE Linux distro's on my HDDs - you can get
   to all through GRUB - and then there are some VMs
   for special occasions (like dissecting very suspicious
   e-mails safely). My faves are Mint, vanilla Deb and MX
   plus the LXDE desktop.

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#37383

Trying to recreate an old computer DOS+xp+QUantian

Tell me more about laptop problems

this is a laptop, my original was desktop

This Quantian is based on knoppix 4
PC is Dell Vestro 3560

knoppix-install or -intaller didn't work

I tried sda5 instead od sda1 in home= because 5 is the linux partition

Some longernamed disks show up when I type mount
I will try those



-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37386

On 3/3/23 05:58, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> Trying to recreate an old computer DOS+xp+QUantian
> 
> Tell me more about laptop problems
> 
> this is a laptop, my original was desktop
> 
> This Quantian is based on knoppix 4
> PC is Dell Vestro 3560
> 
> knoppix-install or -intaller didn't work

	Which version are you trying to install?
	If it is your old version you might try to download a fresh copy
and use the proper tool to write it to your installation media.
	Old version are called that for a reason.
> 
> I tried sda5 instead od sda1 in home= because 5 is the linux partition
> 
> Some longernamed disks show up when I type mount
> I will try those

	Well all my install go to the disk(sda) not to a partition.  BUT the 
disk has my predetermined partitions already in place.

	bliss
	
-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#37393

On 3/3/23 8:58 AM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> Trying to recreate an old computer DOS+xp+QUantian
> 
> Tell me more about laptop problems
> 
> this is a laptop, my original was desktop

   Um, not TOO much to say other than that most
   laptops (I use several sub-laps) are nefarious
   about hiding/disappearing sophisticated boot
   options. I think M$ got to them .....

> This Quantian is based on knoppix 4
> PC is Dell Vestro 3560
> 
> knoppix-install or -intaller didn't work
> 
> I tried sda5 instead od sda1 in home= because 5 is the linux partition
> 
> Some longernamed disks show up when I type mount
> I will try those

   I'm kinda losing the picture here ....

   In theory you use the Knoppix Installer and pick
   a completely new stretch of disk space to install
   the system. SOMETIMES this involves using something
   like gparted to CREATE the partition ahead of time
   so Knoppix will have something it can SEE as the
   install point rather than trying to create it de-novo.

   May I also suggest VMs ? You can have The Experience
   without a lot of the (occasionally dangerous) complications.
   KVM is pretty good, but VirtualBox is much easier to
   deal with. I have a CP/M-86  machine in VirtualBox and
   it works as-advertised.

   WORST case ... hmm ... if you have an ISO of Knoppix
   you can use gparted to create an equal-or-larger
   partition and then 'dd' the ISO into there. Then
   run update-grub. ALWAYS be VERY careful with 'dd',
   it's nickname is "Disk Destroyer"  :-)

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#37474

Thanks to all. (REF: Quantian based on Knoppix4. Vostro 3560 laptop)

Most recently I tried booting from Voytro on USB and got kernel panic.
I prefered Voytro over Rufus because it allows multiple ISOs.
I then went back to the DVD and after it couldn't find the file system,
I entered "exec KNOPPIX" to which it also gave "kernel panic".
So, there is some consistency!

Now, I have installed Quantian/Knoppix before but I do not know which version
that was. It seems there is only one ISO online, that in arhciveos.

Since playing with  DVD parameters (UEFI -> Legacy, SATA -> ATA)
overcame objections to installing XP (over Win7), I am assuming (perhaps
wrongly) that the same will work with KNOPPIX.

I did find somewhere that the DVD is /dev/sr0 and will play with that next eg
home=/dev/sr0/KNOPPIX.img or Quantian.iso The quantian web site gives a
bootfrom knoppix command that isn't on the cheatcodes But that is where I got
sr0 from

In <m_2dncOBY-JQdJ_5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> by 28A.I873
  <28A.I873@noabzba.net>
  on Sat, 04 Mar 2023 01:48:44 we perused:

*+-  In theory you use the Knoppix Installer and pick
*+-  a completely new stretch of disk space to install
*+-  the system. SOMETIMES this involves using something
*+-  like gparted to CREATE the partition ahead of time
*+-  so Knoppix will have something it can SEE as the
*+-  install point rather than trying to create it de-novo.

Yes, I used GParted to set up DOS,XP, Extended
(ext4,linux-swap,fat32-data) partitions

(I'm wondering if someday I may want Android and DEC20
partitions or if I'm just being foolish)

*+-  May I also suggest VMs ? You can have The Experience
*+-  without a lot of the (occasionally dangerous) complications.
*+-  KVM is pretty good, but VirtualBox is much easier to
*+-  deal with. I have a CP/M-86  machine in VirtualBox and
*+-  it works as-advertised.

VMs? I know KVM as the switch that lets me use the same
Keyboard-Video-Mouse on several machines.

I have used DOSBox from Android and Linpus with some satisfaction. (Off
Topic, apparently DOS Mathematica doesn't work with DOSBOX)

*+-  WORST case ... hmm ... if you have an ISO of Knoppix
*+-  you can use gparted to create an equal-or-larger
*+-  partition and then 'dd' the ISO into there. Then
*+-  run update-grub. ALWAYS be VERY careful with 'dd',
*+-  it's nickname is "Disk Destroyer"  :-)

I'm wondering in that direction ev'tho not sure what dd does.
I'm thinking of copying the ISO to the Data partition
and somehow running it from there (how?).

Is update-grub on the GParted ISO?

BTW, cfdisk and DD do not run in the ISO-Linux that comes with Knoppix and
into which it crashes. It had a very limited busybox set of bash commands.
One of the Quantian sites suggests cfdisk and dd. Apparently quantian.org is
still up.

The other thing I may just try to instal a different Linux and see how it
behaves differently and then go back and apply the lessons.

   I really do need to recreate the old environment as closely as
possible. (DOS+XP+Quantian, but that was a 2007 AOpen desktop)

I will get back to this again over the weekend

Most obliged.

-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37480

On 3/7/23 4:31 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> Thanks to all. (REF: Quantian based on Knoppix4. Vostro 3560 laptop)
> 
> Most recently I tried booting from Voytro on USB and got kernel panic.
> I prefered Voytro over Rufus because it allows multiple ISOs.
> I then went back to the DVD and after it couldn't find the file system,
> I entered "exec KNOPPIX" to which it also gave "kernel panic".
> So, there is some consistency!
> 
> Now, I have installed Quantian/Knoppix before but I do not know which version
> that was. It seems there is only one ISO online, that in arhciveos.
> 
> Since playing with  DVD parameters (UEFI -> Legacy, SATA -> ATA)
> overcame objections to installing XP (over Win7), I am assuming (perhaps
> wrongly) that the same will work with KNOPPIX.
> 
> I did find somewhere that the DVD is /dev/sr0 and will play with that next eg
> home=/dev/sr0/KNOPPIX.img or Quantian.iso The quantian web site gives a
> bootfrom knoppix command that isn't on the cheatcodes But that is where I got
> sr0 from
> 
> In <m_2dncOBY-JQdJ_5nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> by 28A.I873
>    <28A.I873@noabzba.net>
>    on Sat, 04 Mar 2023 01:48:44 we perused:
> 
> *+-  In theory you use the Knoppix Installer and pick
> *+-  a completely new stretch of disk space to install
> *+-  the system. SOMETIMES this involves using something
> *+-  like gparted to CREATE the partition ahead of time
> *+-  so Knoppix will have something it can SEE as the
> *+-  install point rather than trying to create it de-novo.
> 
> Yes, I used GParted to set up DOS,XP, Extended
> (ext4,linux-swap,fat32-data) partitions
> 
> (I'm wondering if someday I may want Android and DEC20
> partitions or if I'm just being foolish)

   SOME install Android. Not entirely sure why, it's sort
   of a crippled Linux. Some Rasbperry Pis and clones will
   boot it too .

   DEC20 ... wow ... that's WAY BACK.

   I kinda preferred VMS - a very sophisticated OS for
   its day. You could do international biz/science "live"
   over 110-baud modems  :-)

   In any case, neither DEC20 or VMS will run on any chip
   currently in existence. You HAVE to use emulation
   software. There ARE a couple of VMS emulators BUT you
   have to get the binary images yerself - and the one
   place that used to give 'em away doesn't anymore.
   I have seen a PDP-11/Unix-V emulator, but I've never
   tried to install it, kinda tedious. Allegedly it can
   turn your rPI into a PDP-11 Unix box (and it's likely
   faster than the originals :-)

   None of the popular VM systems - KVM, VirtualBox or
   Xen - can do those old systems ... it kinda had to
   run on an '86 chip of some kind - they don't do
   alien processors.

> *+-  May I also suggest VMs ? You can have The Experience
> *+-  without a lot of the (occasionally dangerous) complications.
> *+-  KVM is pretty good, but VirtualBox is much easier to
> *+-  deal with. I have a CP/M-86  machine in VirtualBox and
> *+-  it works as-advertised.
> 
> VMs? I know KVM as the switch that lets me use the same
> Keyboard-Video-Mouse on several machines.
> 
> I have used DOSBox from Android and Linpus with some satisfaction. (Off
> Topic, apparently DOS Mathematica doesn't work with DOSBOX)
> 
> *+-  WORST case ... hmm ... if you have an ISO of Knoppix
> *+-  you can use gparted to create an equal-or-larger
> *+-  partition and then 'dd' the ISO into there. Then
> *+-  run update-grub. ALWAYS be VERY careful with 'dd',
> *+-  it's nickname is "Disk Destroyer"  :-)
> 
> I'm wondering in that direction ev'tho not sure what dd does.
> I'm thinking of copying the ISO to the Data partition
> and somehow running it from there (how?).
> 
> Is update-grub on the GParted ISO?

   Might be - but it'd be almost pointless. update-grub is
   keen to replace the current HDDs MBR. If you booted from
   a stick or something THAT'S where the MBR is. There ARE
   some options, I think you *can* point it elsewhere but
   I've never tried it on the CL.

> BTW, cfdisk and DD do not run in the ISO-Linux that comes with Knoppix and
> into which it crashes. It had a very limited busybox set of bash commands.
> One of the Quantian sites suggests cfdisk and dd. Apparently quantian.org is
> still up.

   'dd' is almost ALWAYS there, somewhere .... a very useful
   (and dangerous) utility.

   The past few weeks I've put together three 'dd'-ish utilities.
   A GUI 'visualizer', looks like a fancier version of ghex, where
   you can search, or pick an exact byte, decimal or hex. It will
   soon have byte-level editing capabilities and I'm thinking
   about having it identify/expand a few 'key' areas like the MBR
   and UEFI partition. Also made a disk blaster for sanitizing
   old drives before they go to the trash or auction or whatever,
   plus the equiv of 'dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb status=progress'.
   You can specify the buffer size, but the 1mb default seems
   more than good enough. Because the latter two have fewer
   options than 'dd' they generally run a bit faster. MY limiting
   factor is an older USB-3.0 external drive fixture ... if they
   now make 'em in USB-3.2 it'd surely make things snappier.

> The other thing I may just try to instal a different Linux and see how it
> behaves differently and then go back and apply the lessons.

   As I said, Knoppix really ISN'T meant for permanent install
   anymore - they optimized everything for running off a stick.

   There are a huge variety of very good alternatives. Just go
   to distrowatch.org and you can get a little commentary and
   popularity rating for hundreds. SOME of those distros are
   not supported anymore - flashes in the proverbial pan - but
   some people download 'em anyway for a look-see.

   I've had good luck with MX Linux - a "middleweight" distro
   with lots of nice features. If you need small/quick and/or
   for 'older' hardware there are a number of those too. There
   is even Slitaz - which again is not meant to be installed
   so much but is extremely tiny and run from a stick OR you
   can use VirtualBox to create a sort of faux-install.

   Hmmmm ... I'll bet Knoppix can be run by VBox off its ISO
   image too.

   But a 'rescue/utility' distro on a real partition has it's
   useful place too. I've got MX and Kali set up that way.


>     I really do need to recreate the old environment as closely as
> possible. (DOS+XP+Quantian, but that was a 2007 AOpen desktop)
> 
> I will get back to this again over the weekend
> 
> Most obliged.
> 

   DOS won't run on modern chips. You HAVE to use some kind of
   emulator. I think the Core2 chips were the last that would
   run 8-bit software directly (I remember booting a CP/M-86
   floppy on one). XP was 16/32/(64) and will run on the
   current crop of chips directly. VirtualBox WILL run 8-bit
   systems/software easily. DO go into BIOS and make sure
   virtualization is (or CAN be) enabled. Things will be
   slow otherwise. Not all Intel processors HAVE virtualization
   support.

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#37513

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 10:30:07 PM UTC-5, 28B.I874 wrote:
> On 3/7/23 4:31 PM, vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote: 
[]
> > 
> > In <m_2dncOBY-JQdJ_5...@earthlink.com> by 28A.I873 
> > <28A....@noabzba.net> 
> > on Sat, 04 Mar 2023 01:48:44 we perused: 
> > 
> > *+- In theory you use the Knoppix Installer and pick 
> > *+- a completely new stretch of disk space to install 
> > *+- the system. SOMETIMES this involves using something 
> > *+- like gparted to CREATE the partition ahead of time 
> > *+- so Knoppix will have something it can SEE as the 
> > *+- install point rather than trying to create it de-novo. 
> > 
> > Yes, I used GParted to set up DOS,XP, Extended 
> > (ext4,linux-swap,fat32-data) partitions 
> > 
> > (I'm wondering if someday I may want Android and DEC20 
> > partitions or if I'm just being foolish)
> SOME install Android. Not entirely sure why, it's sort 
> of a crippled Linux. Some Rasbperry Pis and clones will 
> boot it too . 
> 
> DEC20 ... wow ... that's WAY BACK. 
> 
> I kinda preferred VMS - a very sophisticated OS for 
> its day. You could do international biz/science "live" 
> over 110-baud modems :-) 
> 
> In any case, neither DEC20 or VMS will run on any chip 
> currently in existence. You HAVE to use emulation 
> software. There ARE a couple of VMS emulators BUT you 
> have to get the binary images yerself - and the one 
> place that used to give 'em away doesn't anymore. 
> I have seen a PDP-11/Unix-V emulator, but I've never 
> tried to install it, kinda tedious. Allegedly it can 
> turn your rPI into a PDP-11 Unix box (and it's likely 
> faster than the originals :-) 

Open VMS exists for other processors.
I only know about it because of a friend that runs it,
both on original DEC hardware and Intel platforms.

From their website:
"Originally designed to run on proprietary VAX servers,
 followed by Alpha and Itanium-based HP Integrity servers,
 OpenVMS is currently being ported to the X86-64 processor
 architecture, bringing a true enterprise OS to the leading
 industry-standard platform. "

https://vmssoftware.com/products/openvms/

Enjoy,
Ed

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#37517

On 3/9/23 11:35 AM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 10:30:07 PM UTC-5, 28B.I874 wrote:
>> On 3/7/23 4:31 PM, vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> []
>>>
>>> In <m_2dncOBY-JQdJ_5...@earthlink.com> by 28A.I873
>>> <28A....@noabzba.net>
>>> on Sat, 04 Mar 2023 01:48:44 we perused:
>>>
>>> *+- In theory you use the Knoppix Installer and pick
>>> *+- a completely new stretch of disk space to install
>>> *+- the system. SOMETIMES this involves using something
>>> *+- like gparted to CREATE the partition ahead of time
>>> *+- so Knoppix will have something it can SEE as the
>>> *+- install point rather than trying to create it de-novo.
>>>
>>> Yes, I used GParted to set up DOS,XP, Extended
>>> (ext4,linux-swap,fat32-data) partitions
>>>
>>> (I'm wondering if someday I may want Android and DEC20
>>> partitions or if I'm just being foolish)
>> SOME install Android. Not entirely sure why, it's sort
>> of a crippled Linux. Some Rasbperry Pis and clones will
>> boot it too .
>>
>> DEC20 ... wow ... that's WAY BACK.
>>
>> I kinda preferred VMS - a very sophisticated OS for
>> its day. You could do international biz/science "live"
>> over 110-baud modems :-)
>>
>> In any case, neither DEC20 or VMS will run on any chip
>> currently in existence. You HAVE to use emulation
>> software. There ARE a couple of VMS emulators BUT you
>> have to get the binary images yerself - and the one
>> place that used to give 'em away doesn't anymore.
>> I have seen a PDP-11/Unix-V emulator, but I've never
>> tried to install it, kinda tedious. Allegedly it can
>> turn your rPI into a PDP-11 Unix box (and it's likely
>> faster than the originals :-)
> 
> Open VMS exists for other processors.
> I only know about it because of a friend that runs it,
> both on original DEC hardware and Intel platforms.
> 
>  From their website:
> "Originally designed to run on proprietary VAX servers,
>   followed by Alpha and Itanium-based HP Integrity servers,
>   OpenVMS is currently being ported to the X86-64 processor
>   architecture, bringing a true enterprise OS to the leading
>   industry-standard platform. "
> 
> https://vmssoftware.com/products/openvms/


   Good to see !  wonder what they'll CHARGE for it ?
   I note there's a "Sales" link  :-)

   For a TIME you could get VMS free and run it on
   an emulator.

   In any case, VMS was a damned good system - even in
   light of modern times. It was made for big iron doing
   big work worldwide. "Connectedness" isn't such a new
   concept. RHEL would like you to think it invented
   fail-over servers, but they didn't.

   Still have my VMS manual - about three inches thick
   in smallish type  :-)

   Now about 64 cores worth of decent Xeon and ...

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#37519

On 2023-03-10, 28C.I874 <28C.I874@noabgba.net> wrote:
> ...
>
>    Still have my VMS manual - about three inches thick
>    in smallish type  :-)
>
>    Now about 64 cores worth of decent Xeon and ...

Which of the several volumes would that be?  At least in the
1980s, the VMS manual was a shelf of binders.  Around a couple of
decades ago, at a thrift store IIRC, I bought an orange binder
labeled as follows:

        VAX/VMS
        Volume 2A

        Command
        Language
        System Messages

        Command
        Language
        User's Guide

        Guide to
        Using Command
        Procedures

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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#37520

On 3/9/23 10:24 PM, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2023-03-10, 28C.I874 <28C.I874@noabgba.net> wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>     Still have my VMS manual - about three inches thick
>>     in smallish type  :-)
>>
>>     Now about 64 cores worth of decent Xeon and ...
> 
> Which of the several volumes would that be?  At least in the
> 1980s, the VMS manual was a shelf of binders.  Around a couple of
> decades ago, at a thrift store IIRC, I bought an orange binder
> labeled as follows:
> 
>          VAX/VMS
>          Volume 2A
> 
>          Command
>          Language
>          System Messages
> 
>          Command
>          Language
>          User's Guide
> 
>          Guide to
>          Using Command
>          Procedures
> 

   Mine is a big paperback that seems to
   put all those 'binders' together. All
   you'd ever want to know.

   And it's GOOD NEWS - even nearly 40 years later.
   DEC made a GREAT system - the best of the narrow-
   tie tekkies. Add a few modern tweaks and it's still
   a competitor. Can others can make that claim ?

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#37516

I'll give it a few more tries before I  surrender and install CAELINUX
instead.

-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37506

This is not about intalling Knoppix4, it is about installing Quantian
(quantian.org aka dirk.eddelbuettel.com/quantian.html iso on
archiveos.org/quantian/) which uses Knoppix4.

linuxquestions.org/questions/damnsmalllinux-42/can't-find-knoppix-filesystem-447438/
claims I'm out of luck for installing Quantian on Vostro

Please not the Vostro 3560 is itself from 2012 and used to run Win7.
I have gotten Win Xp and MSDOS 6.22 to work fine.

As to old computers, I generally remove the drive and smash it with a
hammer.


-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37507

Sorry for the clutter, but the USb responce is
https://linuxnetmag.com/kernel-panic-not-syncing/ Which also happens on DVD
when I repsond "exec KNOPPIX" to "can't find filesystem"

-- 
	 Vasos Panagiotopoulos  panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---

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#37514

On 3/8/23 13:33, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> Sorry for the clutter, but the USb responce is
> https://linuxnetmag.com/kernel-panic-not-syncing/ Which also happens on DVD
> when I repsond "exec KNOPPIX" to "can't find filesystem"
> 

	How is your BIOS set?
	How old is your DVD?

	I have had no problems with current DVDs/Flash Drives on machine older 
than yours.

	bliss

-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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