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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87875 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 130 — 12 participants |
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Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 07:54 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 02:12 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 09:03 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:25 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:22 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:14 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:45 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:21 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 04:20 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-14 14:27 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 22:51 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 03:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:46 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:16 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-15 17:02 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 19:05 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 20:41 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 22:21 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 02:00 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 02:55 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:54 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:00 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:55 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:07 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:51 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:34 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:55 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:14 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 20:22 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 16:47 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:11 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:29 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:09 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:19 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:09 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 23:23 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 07:20 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:26 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:32 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:44 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 13:55 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 17:02 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:37 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 19:14 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 20:50 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:36 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 11:58 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:18 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:22 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:27 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:34 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:01 +0000
Communism ???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-18 21:46 -0700
Re: Communism ???? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 05:59 +0000
Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:51 -0400
Re: Communism ???? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 11:51 +0200
Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 23:50 -0400
Re: Communism ???? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-20 08:54 +0200
Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 03:25 -0400
Re: Communism ???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:25 +0100
Re: Communism ???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000
Re: Communism ???? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 18:22 +0000
Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:48 -0400
Re: Communism ???? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:08 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 12:56 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 02:04 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:41 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:39 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:50 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:25 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:00 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:46 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:13 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:33 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:18 +0100
The Walmart Effect (Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-19 06:12 -0700
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:44 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-19 02:26 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:26 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 01:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:42 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:49 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:51 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-19 13:12 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-19 17:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 00:10 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-20 01:44 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-20 01:42 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 06:42 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 04:18 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:21 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 23:09 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 06:22 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 03:57 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:38 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 +0800
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 02:51 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <n5acnZRUso2Feqn3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88081 |
On 6/19/26 01:59, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 21:46:40 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> [snipped] >>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-) >>> >>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground >>> - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some >>> adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined >>> as a virtue, things have been going downhill. >> >> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and >> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people >> living there. > > Until recently the Nordic countries had an an advantage. Your neighbor was > Sven, not Mohammad, so it was a big happy family. I don't think the Nordic > model is workable in a diverse society. Norway having oil money flowing in > helped too. Yep, the convenient UniCulture kind of collapsed. NOW it's 'complicated' - sometimes to extremes. Sweden is being beaten down by Islamist gangs now, terrorizing everyone.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 11:51 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <n9khomFidf7U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88079 |
{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> [snipped]
>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)
>>
>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
>> things have been going downhill.
>
> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people
> living there.
None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in which
most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody has
money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow or make.
Economy would have to stop being based on work.
For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on the
Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People migrate
outworld to find jobs.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 23:50 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <OuGcncl0OdVlkKv3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88089 |
On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> {Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
>
> On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> [snipped]
>>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)
>>>
>>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
>>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
>>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
>>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
>>> things have been going downhill.
>>
>> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
>> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
>> people living there.
>
> None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in which
> most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody has
> money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow or make.
As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.
> Economy would have to stop being based on work.
Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
the effort.
> For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on the
> Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People migrate
> outworld to find jobs.
Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.
If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
buy with it ?
Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
still required.
What happens if that no longer exists ?
SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
the same bullshit.
In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.
And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?
Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
using AI tools ROTS the human skill set :-)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 08:54 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <n9mrocFti34U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88112 |
On 2026-06-20 05:50, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> {Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
>>
>> On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> [snipped]
>>>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)
>>>>
>>>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
>>>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
>>>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
>>>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
>>>> things have been going downhill.
>>>
>>> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and
>>> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
>>> people living there.
>>
>> None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in
>> which most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works, nobody
>> has money to buy the things or products that the robot factories grow
>> or make.
>
> Â As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
> Â no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.
>
>> Economy would have to stop being based on work.
>
> Â Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
> Â short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
> Â as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
> Â those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
> Â the effort.
>
>> For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on
>> the Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People
>> migrate outworld to find jobs.
>
> Â Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.
Taxes on robot factories. China is already doing this.
>
> Â If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
> Â the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
> Â buy with it ?
>
> Â Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
> Â will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
> Â billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
> Â do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
> Â still required.
>
> Â What happens if that no longer exists ?
>
> Â SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
> Â were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
> Â hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
> Â the same bullshit.
>
> Â In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
> Â one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
> Â Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
> Â would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
> Â and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.
>
> Â And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
> Â things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
> Â god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
> Â another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
> Â hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?
>
> Â Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
>  using AI tools ROTS the human skill set :-)
>
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 03:25 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <55OcnVLiTN4n3av3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88122 |
On 6/20/26 02:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-20 05:50, c186282 wrote:
>> On 6/19/26 05:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>> {Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
>>>
>>> On 2026-06-19 06:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> [snipped]
>>>>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's
>>>>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism,
>>>>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever
>>>>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue,
>>>>> things have been going downhill.
>>>>
>>>> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada
>>>> and the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the
>>>> people living there.
>>>
>>> None of the existing political systems can cope with an economy in
>>> which most of the work is done by robots and AIs. Nobody works,
>>> nobody has money to buy the things or products that the robot
>>> factories grow or make.
>>
>> Â Â As said, that's the Big Flaw in The Plan. No workers,
>> Â Â no money, nobody can buy yer AI-cheapened stuff.
>>
>>> Economy would have to stop being based on work.
>>
>> Â Â Not sure that's possible - certainly not in any
>> Â Â short term. Money is awarded for DOING STUFF seen
>> Â Â as valuable. Requires EFFORT and SKILL. "AI" steals
>> Â Â those skills and doesn't give a shit (so far) about
>> Â Â the effort.
>>
>>> For example, in the SciFi Expanse universe, people on Earth live on
>>> the Basic, an universal income. The fortunate have a job. People
>>> migrate outworld to find jobs.
>>
>> Â Â Even that 'basic income' has to come from SOMETHING.
>
> Taxes on robot factories. China is already doing this.
>
>>
>> Â Â If almost all humans are replaced, then WHERE ? Will
>> Â Â the "AI"s just 'print money' ??? What will/can you
>> Â Â buy with it ?
>>
>> Â Â Note the AI influence won't just be in the USA ... it
>> Â Â will displace billions EVERYWHERE, eventually ALL the
>> Â Â billions once the androids are better. Sure, they can
>> Â Â do everything, but some economic balance, impetus, is
>> Â Â still required.
>>
>> Â Â What happens if that no longer exists ?
>>
>> Â Â SOUNDS like the "communist utopia" Marx and well beyond
>> Â Â were trying to sell. In reality it was a horrible grey
>> Â Â hopeless existence. Now we have neo-Marxists, selling
>> Â Â the same bullshit.
>>
>> Â Â In THEORY a 'robotopia' can exist - but I fear it's
>> Â Â one of those "Can't really GET there from here" things.
>> Â Â Many little realities in the way. If even possible it
>> Â Â would have to grow, entwine, very slowly. Industry
>> Â Â and Govt want AI *RIGHT NOW* for everything.
>>
>> Â Â And, of course, eventually the AIs will invent better
>> Â Â things to do than just "serving" .... they will become
>> Â Â god-like, we will become irrelevant (at best), just
>> Â Â another kind of cockroach. How many can jump back to the
>> Â Â hunter-gatherer thing these days on short notice ?
>>
>> Â Â Ah ... see my next post ... analysis/evidence sez that
>>   using AI tools ROTS the human skill set :-)
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
Thanks ... but this all MAY not be so "cheerful".
"AI" represents a MAJOR socioeconomic paradigm shift,
even worse than the Industrial Revolution.
Humans STILL had jobs, just a little different, when
automation became a thing. NOW - no future at all,
no utility, no clout.
And NOBODY of relevance seems INTERESTED in what to do
with all the obsoleted humans ......
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 13:25 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <1113cfg$39rgp$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88079 |
On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: > On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > [snipped] >>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-) >> >> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's >> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, >> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever >> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, >> things have been going downhill. > > There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and > the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people > living there. > Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either. The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment. The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded. Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social membership, and thereby enslaves. -- To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <%ieZR.115315$9FP3.42086@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #88096 |
On 2026-06-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> [snipped] >>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-) >>> >>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's >>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, >>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever >>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, >>> things have been going downhill. >> >> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and >> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people >> living there. >> > Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either. > The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by > membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment. > The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded. Or not. Here in Canada we also have McDonald's and Uber, Microsoft and Google. Powerful multinationals blur the borders. > Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social > membership, and thereby enslaves. +1 -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 18:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <n9lfmcFmbfkU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88099 |
On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 16:41:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Or not. Here in Canada we also have McDonald's and Uber, Microsoft and > Google. Powerful multinationals blur the borders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUpmeak0pV4 'Many a Mile' Patrick Sky I've seen your towns they are all the same The only difference is in a name.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 01:48 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <-JidneWLepgNtKv3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88096 |
On 6/19/26 08:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 19/06/2026 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: >> On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> [snipped] >>>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-) >>> >>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's >>> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, >>> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever >>> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, >>> things have been going downhill. >> >> There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and >> the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the >> people living there. >> > Indeed. Their societies are not fault free either. > The great thing about having diverse countries who are not bound by > membership of an inflexible bureaucracy, is that they can experiment. > The good gets copied, the bad gets discarded. > Top down socialism or capitalism, dictates the terms of social > membership, and thereby enslaves. Pay attention to the news from the last 10-15 years. The 'socialist' Nordics ... it's all IMPLODING on them. NOT a Real World / Real Human model. Can seem to work for a LITTLE while ... but THEN ....... Too many hippies, not enough actual analysts.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 01:08 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Communism ???? |
| Message-ID | <-JidneuLepipvav3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88079 |
On 6/19/26 00:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: > On 2026-06-18 11:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2026-06-18, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > [snipped] >>> So, we need some sort of communism for the future >:-) >> >> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's >> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, >> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever >> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, >> things have been going downhill. > > There are places with a less fanatical capitalism, such as Canada and > the Nordic countries. They seem to do quite well for most of the people > living there. Ummmmm ... check again.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 12:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1113aq6$39rgp$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88060 |
On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's > a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, > perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever > since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, > things have been going downhill. Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his employees. The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake. -- Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 16:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <0jeZR.115316$9FP3.105169@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #88091 |
On 2026-06-19, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's >> a middle ground - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, >> perhaps. It will take some adjustment, though - ever >> since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined as a virtue, >> things have been going downhill. > > Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and > schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general > realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his employees. > > The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only > to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake. Not for those currently at the top of the pyramid, alas. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 17:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9ldd4FmbfkU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88091 |
On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 12:56:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground >> - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some >> adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined >> as a virtue, >> things have been going downhill. > > Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and > schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general > realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his > employees. > > The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only > to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. Ford, his hero and mentor Edison, and Firestone thought they had been ill used by the 'capitalists' of Wall Street. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship Ford was idealistic before he turned bitter. War is much more profitable than peace so it was a lost cause.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 18:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <MXfZR.67016$S8Pc.1113@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #88105 |
On 2026-06-19, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 12:56:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 18/06/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Why go from one extreme to the other? Perhaps there's a middle ground >>> - a non-fanatical form of capitalism, perhaps. It will take some >>> adjustment, though - ever since the 1980s, when greed became re-defined >>> as a virtue, >>> things have been going downhill. >> >> Back in the day, concerned conservative capitalists built houses and >> schools for their workers, paid for basic medical care and in general >> realised that a capitalist is a member of society, just like his >> employees. >> >> The onset of American style corporate capitalism that assigns value only >> to cash is somewhat of an anomaly and a mistake. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. > > Ford, his hero and mentor Edison, and Firestone thought they had been ill > used by the 'capitalists' of Wall Street. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship > > Ford was idealistic before he turned bitter. War is much more profitable > than peace so it was a lost cause. https://www.politicalgraphics.org/post/war-is-not-healthy-poster-of-the-week https://www.ebay.ca/itm/314425448249 -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 02:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <-JidneSLepjKsKv3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88108 |
Henry Ford was famous for decently paying his workers. Yea, boring jobs on The Line - but you COULD make enough money to buy a house and a Model-T. Really nobody else offered anything like that. He turned bitter when UNIONS (commies) claimed he was an 'exploiter' and wanted to extort mass money from him. Kinda sad ... Ford did have the wealth/clout/position where he could have CRUSHED the US 'Red' movement - not always by 'nice' means - way back then. He did not - a too "ME"-oriented vision. Didn't look at the Bigger Picture.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 19:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9ivvnFaeprU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88049 |
On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:32:16 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > So, we need some sort of communism for the future > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Servile_State
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 13:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1113c8d$39rgp$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88070 |
On 18/06/2026 20:41, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:32:16 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: > >> So, we need some sort of communism for the future > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Servile_State Skimming wiki, that sounds about right... -- To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 19:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9ivrjFaeprU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88047 |
On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 04:26:10 -0400, c186282 wrote: > So, again, WHAT happens to all the obsoleted humans ? I believe I mentioned Vonnegut's 'Player Piano' in this group recently. They work on recreation and reclamation make work projects. Not a plot spoiler, but they aren't happy with the situation.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <yGCYR.185084$yrMe.173727@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #88024 |
On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote:
>
>> The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field
>> picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful
>> gatherings.
>
> His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for
> all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks
> pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise',
> more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
> factory ........
In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says:
Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a
trillionaire instead of everyone having food?
Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article
talking about what a hero Elon Musk is.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation
/ \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 04:50 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xuqcnUFbGvvwLK73nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88040 |
On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > >> On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote: >> >>> The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field >>> picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful >>> gatherings. >> >> His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for >> all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks >> pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise', >> more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green >> factory ........ > > In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says: > > Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a > trillionaire instead of everyone having food? > > Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article > talking about what a hero Elon Musk is. Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous :-)
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