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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread

Redundancy/Survival

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Last post2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 123 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

Page 6 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7  Next page →


#87346

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Message-ID<e681fmxjks.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87334
On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>      service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>      forgotten,
>>>>      but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>
>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>
>>    I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>
>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>    to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>    for an excuse ...
> 
> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
> 
>>    They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>    ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>    are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
> 
> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
> change their minds later.
> 
>>    Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>    different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
> 
> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
> 
> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
> 


It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses 
different numeration than mobile. Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87362

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Message-ID<10vm8d8$2prmk$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87346
On 2026-06-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>>      service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>>      forgotten,
>>>>>      but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>>
>>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>>
>>>    I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>>
>>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>>    to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>>    for an excuse ...
>>
>> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
>> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
>> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
>> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
>> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
>> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
>> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
>>
>>>    They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>>    ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>>    are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
>>
>> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
>> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
>> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
>> change their minds later.
>>
>>>    Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>>    different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
>>
>> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
>> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
>> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
>>
>> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
>> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
>> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
>>
>
>
> It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses
> different numeration than mobile.

Do you get a landline prefix or a "VoIP" prefix, or are both the same in
Spain?  Across one of the borders, Portugal has or had a different (3)
prefix for VoIP services, while landlines use 2.

<https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BAmeros_de_telefone_em_Portugal#Plano_Nacional_de_Numera%C3%A7%C3%A3o>

> Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.

(With GSM, wasn't the "generation" a criterion for that? Was it 4G that
started requiring a VoIP-like approach?)

-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87367

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Message-ID<vtq2fmxa11.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87362
On 2026-06-02 11:39, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-06-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>       There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>>>       service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>>>       forgotten,
>>>>>>       but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>>>
>>>>     I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>>>
>>>>     But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>>>     to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>>>     for an excuse ...
>>>
>>> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
>>> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
>>> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
>>> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
>>> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
>>> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
>>> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
>>>
>>>>     They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>>>     ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>>>     are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
>>>
>>> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
>>> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
>>> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
>>> change their minds later.
>>>
>>>>     Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>>>     different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
>>>
>>> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
>>> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
>>> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
>>>
>>> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
>>> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
>>> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses
>> different numeration than mobile.
> 
> Do you get a landline prefix or a "VoIP" prefix, or are both the same in
> Spain?

A traditional landline number.

There is a VoIP system behind it, but the identifiers and the configs 
are not published. Not accessible except by reverse engineering. It is 
even possible that a 10.*.*.* network is involved (I'm not sure).

>  Across one of the borders, Portugal has or had a different (3)
> prefix for VoIP services, while landlines use 2.
> 
> <https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BAmeros_de_telefone_em_Portugal#Plano_Nacional_de_Numera%C3%A7%C3%A3o>
> 
>> Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.
> 
> (With GSM, wasn't the "generation" a criterion for that? Was it 4G that
> started requiring a VoIP-like approach?)

I don't know, I'm no longer working in that field :-)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87170

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Message-ID<TJycnTERSJjsxIv3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87165
On 5/26/26 18:09, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like
>>> isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price.
>>
>>    Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and
>>    the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN
>>    workers.
>>
>>    They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty.
> 
> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that
> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability
> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are
> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or
> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level.

   That IS a factor.

> They don't mind at all sending a tech. out to drag in fiber, given that
> each one moves them from "regulated service" to "unregulated service".

   Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
   have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
   with it.

   "Comcast" will probably have cable/Fiber for awhile
   yet, but their price has become extreme. Can't even
   get that anymore, tiny bushes became huge trees over
   time and it'd cost me thousands to clear a path for
   a cable-tv wire now. When my old one - literally on
   the ground since Covid days - goes, well, dish.

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#87195

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Message-ID<10v6qg9$2ot19$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87170
On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>    with it.

Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper


-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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#87207

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Message-ID<6a17789e@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#87195
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>    with it.
> 
> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper

Still here in Australia one person I know with "fibre to the
premises" (as opposed to re-using the old copper phone lines for
connection from the street to the house) had to have the line fixed
within about a year of installation due to a faulty connection that
evidently "degraded" somehow over time.

Likely a faulty installation, the box they attached to the house
wasn't even screwed on very convincingly, but there'll be a lot of
that in this contry and probably elsewhere.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#87213

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Message-ID<10v8qa7$39l9v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87207
On 28/05/2026 00:05, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>     have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>     with it.
>>
>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
> 
> Still here in Australia one person I know with "fibre to the
> premises" (as opposed to re-using the old copper phone lines for
> connection from the street to the house) had to have the line fixed
> within about a year of installation due to a faulty connection that
> evidently "degraded" somehow over time.
> 
> Likely a faulty installation, the box they attached to the house
> wasn't even screwed on very convincingly, but there'll be a lot of
> that in this contry and probably elsewhere.
> 
Nothing in that shows that the fibre degraded. Only a connection

-- 
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle 
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump 
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the 
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is 
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

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#87220

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Message-ID<ec6dnYCgEcvmaYr3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87195
On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>    with it.
> 
> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper

   The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires
   splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade.
   HUMANS will be required to replace that
   stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and
   expensive.

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#87225

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Message-ID<10v8tsh$3ajmv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87220
On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>    with it.
>>
>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
> 
>    The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires
>    splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade.
>    HUMANS will be required to replace that
>    stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and
>    expensive.
> 
Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix cables
And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible
And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science


-- 
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

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#87244

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Message-ID<UYicndWFJtyzQoX3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87225
On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>>    with it.
>>>
>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>
>>    The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires
>>    splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade.
>>    HUMANS will be required to replace that
>>    stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and
>>    expensive.
>>
> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix cables
> And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible
> And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science


   Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.

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#87245

FromInterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org>
Date2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Message-ID<10vaorr$3r8c4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87244
On 5/28/2026 8:34 PM, c186282 wrote:
> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>>>    with it.
>>>>
>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>>
>>>    The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires
>>>    splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade.
>>>    HUMANS will be required to replace that
>>>    stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and
>>>    expensive.
>>>
>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix 
>> cables
>> And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible
>> And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science
> 
> 
>    Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.

It isn't just the fiber itself, but the other active equipment involved.

I live in a Verizon metro area, so unfortunately it's fiber and not 
copper. I still pay for standalone regulated "POTS over fiber" (not the 
more common unregulated FiOS Digital Voice offering). It works ~mostly 
the same, i.e. you can make dial-around calls using Feature Group D 
Equal Access and I have a TDM-based long-distance service, even though 
my ONT connects via SIP to a new packet switch.

In just the past couple years, there have been several impairments to my 
service that would not have happened with copper. On one occasion, I 
came home and had no dial tone, and called Verizon up using VoIP through 
my cable ISP. I made a stink, since the "POTS" line (albeit fiber) is my 
only way to reach 911 in an emergency. They gave me a service credit, 
but could not explain why it randomly stopped working and needed a 
reboot. When is the last time a 5ESS or DMS100 just "stopped providing 
dial tone" randomly and needed a reboot? Probably never.

On another occasion, I called about another unrelated issue and the 
idiot offshore tech decided to reboot my ONT *without my consent*, and 
unnecessarily given I wasn't calling about a line-related issue at all. 
Well, I let *him* have it and also demanded and got another service 
credit. But another loss of service (however temporary) that would be 
impossible on copper.

Yes, copper is not perfect, but in actual reality, copper works much 
more of the time than fiber. There are fewer things that can go wrong. 
And even though I have a backup battery unit for my service, it's only 
good for 8 hours. What happens then? I would take a line with a little 
hum or static over no line at all, especially when most needed.

This has all come to a head recently in California - the California 
regulator has so far protected consumers and stood up to AT&T, unlike 
other states, and now AT&T has sued California for this and asked the 
FCC to preempt California's protections - see https://savelandlines.org/ 
for the high-level details.

While I live in an urban area and probably will be fine in a power 
outage unless I hurt myself, many Californias will be left for dead if 
they lose their copper POTS line, as it's often the only reliable way to 
call for help in many areas, esp. with prolonged power outages being 
common. But the FCC has long ago decided that helping industry increase 
its already massive profits is now more important than its actual job, 
protecting the people from industry.

P.S. I empathize with the OP here... while I still have cable Internet 
for the time being (not interested in Verizon's stupid and unnecessary 
fiber that I never asked for or wanted), I've been questioning why I 
even have that. Between JavaScript that doesn't work in my browsers, 
user agent blocking, and just plain bloated and unusable sites, hardly 
anything on the WWW even works anymore (or is even worth accessing if it 
still does). Email and Usenet work fine on slow connections and 
asynchronously. I found a new dial-up ISP[1] in the last month that has 
good customer service and is still reselling dial-up, and I'm planning 
to cancel my cable and switch to dial-up. Will save a few bucks and cut 
some BS out of my life. (And yes, it works just fine on my "POTS over 
fiber", though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k. It's rock 
solid and will stay up with no drops, though my fellow copper dial-up 
users tell me they can get speeds in the 40s and 50s, so something about 
the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with V.90/V.92 negotiation.)

[1] https://www.va.net/dialup

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#87337

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Message-ID<10vk256$27ab8$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87245
InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
> though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k.

33.6 is as high as you can negioate using digital to audio and audio to 
digital signal transmission (i.e., standard "modem" working) due to the 
underlying digitizing rate for all phone calls by the carriers.

> so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with 
> V.90/V.92 negotiation.)

Obtaining speeds higher than 33.6 requires:
1) copper between the modem and the dmarc in the exchange
2) the dmark in the switch being one that can have the analog to 
digital converter at the end of the copper turned off.

The higher speeds work by both ends driving the copper as if it were a 
digital baseband network link (i.e., somewhat akin to driving ethernet 
signaling over the line).

But, with any analog to digital converters in between mean you can't 
get better than 33.6.  And all the "fiber to your home, with a little 
box that drives your in house copper as if it were still connected to 
POTS" means there is a small analog to digital converter in the way 
(and no one decided to offer the ability to switch it off and drive the 
copper as digital baseband).

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#87350

FromInterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org>
Date2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Message-ID<10vl3kr$2ii0i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87337
On 6/1/2026 9:40 AM, Rich wrote:
> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>> though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k.
> 
> 33.6 is as high as you can negioate using digital to audio and audio to
> digital signal transmission (i.e., standard "modem" working) due to the
> underlying digitizing rate for all phone calls by the carriers.
 >
>> so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with
>> V.90/V.92 negotiation.)
> 
> Obtaining speeds higher than 33.6 requires:
> 1) copper between the modem and the dmarc in the exchange
> 2) the dmark in the switch being one that can have the analog to
> digital converter at the end of the copper turned off.
>
> The higher speeds work by both ends driving the copper as if it were a
> digital baseband network link (i.e., somewhat akin to driving ethernet
> signaling over the line).
> 
> But, with any analog to digital converters in between mean you can't
> get better than 33.6.  And all the "fiber to your home, with a little
> box that drives your in house copper as if it were still connected to
> POTS" means there is a small analog to digital converter in the way
> (and no one decided to offer the ability to switch it off and drive the
> copper as digital baseband).

Yes, I'm aware of the 33.6 ceiling with conversions.

I don't think I mentioned it before, but I can get 36000 (not 33600) 
when calling certain modems. I've gotten it a few times when calling the 
dial-up ISP here in the US (there is really only one, no matter which 
reseller you use), but usually just 33600.

That demonstrates I can get speeds > 33.6k, but usually the negotiation 
fails (I can hear it too, it's not happy trying to negotiate V.90/V.92).

My point was that copper POTS customers can get speeds in the 40s/50s 
calling the same service, no problem at all, but I'm not able to do that 
with my service being delivered over fiber. Dial-up Internet speeds are 
actually *hampered* by fiber... how ironic is that?

So from my (consumer) perspective, fiber is a loser. It's inferior 
quality and connectivity and it doesn't work in a power outage. There's 
already coax in my area for CATV so the fiber was redundant to begin 
with for broadband. They crippled our phone service in favor of another 
expensive[1] and unregulated service... but it's great for the telco! 
Now the burden - and cost - of powering phone service is on the consumer.

The only scenario in which fiber wins in my book would be where your 
copper line is fed out of a SLC-96 that doesn't have a reliable power 
supply in emergencies, in which case if you happen to have enough backup 
power yourself, fiber would be better since it's passive (GPON).

[1] Oh, and even though my service is arguably inferior to copper, I 
don't pay any less than copper customers; still all the high taxes/fees 
associated with regulated service (which I have intentionally). So it's 
not copper that's expensive per se, it's regulated phone service 
regardless of technology.

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#87361

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Message-ID<9rg2fmxp12.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87350
On 2026-06-02 01:12, InterLinked wrote:
> On 6/1/2026 9:40 AM, Rich wrote:
>> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>>> though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k.
>>
>> 33.6 is as high as you can negioate using digital to audio and audio to
>> digital signal transmission (i.e., standard "modem" working) due to the
>> underlying digitizing rate for all phone calls by the carriers.
>  >
>>> so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with
>>> V.90/V.92 negotiation.)
>>
>> Obtaining speeds higher than 33.6 requires:
>> 1) copper between the modem and the dmarc in the exchange
>> 2) the dmark in the switch being one that can have the analog to
>> digital converter at the end of the copper turned off.
>>
>> The higher speeds work by both ends driving the copper as if it were a
>> digital baseband network link (i.e., somewhat akin to driving ethernet
>> signaling over the line).
>>
>> But, with any analog to digital converters in between mean you can't
>> get better than 33.6.  And all the "fiber to your home, with a little
>> box that drives your in house copper as if it were still connected to
>> POTS" means there is a small analog to digital converter in the way
>> (and no one decided to offer the ability to switch it off and drive the
>> copper as digital baseband).
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of the 33.6 ceiling with conversions.
> 
> I don't think I mentioned it before, but I can get 36000 (not 33600) 
> when calling certain modems. I've gotten it a few times when calling the 
> dial-up ISP here in the US (there is really only one, no matter which 
> reseller you use), but usually just 33600.
> 
> That demonstrates I can get speeds > 33.6k, but usually the negotiation 
> fails (I can hear it too, it's not happy trying to negotiate V.90/V.92).
> 
> My point was that copper POTS customers can get speeds in the 40s/50s 
> calling the same service, no problem at all, but I'm not able to do that 
> with my service being delivered over fiber. Dial-up Internet speeds are 
> actually *hampered* by fiber... how ironic is that?

Yes. The signal was digitized at your exchange, then transmitted to the 
remote exchange. which had a bank of signal processors that would 
process the digital signal instead of a modem, and get you that V90.

I worked for a telco that did precisely this (using the 5ESSS and the 
Lucent MAX TNT) around year 2000.

With fibre and VoIP you have a problem: you are probably using a codec. 
Maybe a lossy one.



> So from my (consumer) perspective, fiber is a loser. It's inferior 
> quality and connectivity and it doesn't work in a power outage. There's 
> already coax in my area for CATV so the fiber was redundant to begin 
> with for broadband. They crippled our phone service in favor of another 
> expensive[1] and unregulated service... but it's great for the telco! 
> Now the burden - and cost - of powering phone service is on the consumer.

Well, if you want to use dial up modem, you are using the wrong technology.

> 
> The only scenario in which fiber wins in my book would be where your 
> copper line is fed out of a SLC-96 that doesn't have a reliable power 
> supply in emergencies, in which case if you happen to have enough backup 
> power yourself, fiber would be better since it's passive (GPON).
> 
> [1] Oh, and even though my service is arguably inferior to copper, I 
> don't pay any less than copper customers; still all the high taxes/fees 
> associated with regulated service (which I have intentionally). So it's 
> not copper that's expensive per se, it's regulated phone service 
> regardless of technology.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#87248

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Message-ID<n7s80tFo1qlU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87244
On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it.
>>>>
>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>>
>>>    The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters.
>>>    THOSE will degrade.
>>>    HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a pain
>>>    in the ass and expensive.
>>>
>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix
>> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition
>> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science
> 
> 
>    Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.

We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech 
crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires while 
his little workspace fill with water...

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#87264

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Message-ID<UYicnc-FJtzBsIT3nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to#87248
On 5/28/26 21:21, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
>>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>>>     have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>>>
>>>>     The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters.
>>>>     THOSE will degrade.
>>>>     HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a pain
>>>>     in the ass and expensive.
>>>>
>>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix
>>> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition
>>> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science
>>
>>
>>     Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.
> 
> We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech
> crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires while
> his little workspace fill with water...


   Sounds "courageous", "dedicated" - a hero figure.

   Long years back I kinda of WAS that person.

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#87268

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Message-ID<n7sqolFu3pfU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87264
On Fri, 29 May 2026 02:08:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 5/28/26 21:21, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>>>>     have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>>>>
>>>>>     The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters.
>>>>>     THOSE will degrade.
>>>>>     HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a
>>>>>     pain in the ass and expensive.
>>>>>
>>>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix
>>>> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition
>>>> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science
>>>
>>>
>>>     Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.
>> 
>> We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech
>> crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires
>> while his little workspace fill with water...
> 
> 
>    Sounds "courageous", "dedicated" - a hero figure.

No, just a guy doing a job. Sometimes the job sucks but you do it anyway. 
Linemen are the same way. When the poles blow over it isn't a nice sunny 
day but they're out there fixing them. You haven't lived until you've 
driven a semi through a North Dakota blizzard but you keep on trucking.

I'm not sure how much of that attitude is left in Gen Z.

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#87336

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Message-ID<10vk14q$27ab8$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87220
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>    with it.
>> 
>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
> 
>   The fiber doesn't ...  but fiber requires splitters/repeaters.  
>   THOSE will degrade.  HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff.  
>   Humans are a pain in the ass and expensive.

Newsflash....  So does your POTS copper line, if you are over the 
maximum length from the central office where it terminates.

The POTS lines also have echo cancelers along the way between you and 
the central office.  And if your wiring is above ground cabling, 
lightning arrestors, and lots of other bits and pieces that *will also 
degrade* and that periodically *require humans to replace*.

There's nothing magic about copper POTS that makes it significantly 
more reliable than the alternatives.  The reliability of POTS was *all* 
about the regulatory environment, not the hardware.

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#87347

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Message-ID<mg81fmxjks.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87336
On 2026-06-01 15:23, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>>>>     have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>>>>     with it.
>>>
>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper
>>
>>    The fiber doesn't ...  but fiber requires splitters/repeaters.
>>    THOSE will degrade.  HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff.
>>    Humans are a pain in the ass and expensive.
> 
> Newsflash....  So does your POTS copper line, if you are over the
> maximum length from the central office where it terminates.
> 
> The POTS lines also have echo cancelers along the way between you and
> the central office.  And if your wiring is above ground cabling,
> lightning arrestors, and lots of other bits and pieces that *will also
> degrade* and that periodically *require humans to replace*.
> 
> There's nothing magic about copper POTS that makes it significantly
> more reliable than the alternatives.  The reliability of POTS was *all*
> about the regulatory environment, not the hardware.

There is only the nuance that POTS worked during power failures and 
fibre doesn't. We need local power backup. And they managed to get the 
regulators accept this. Oh well... such is life.

In Spain after the energy zero we had, the government asked to rethink 
how to keep the network working for longer on an energy zero. I have not 
heard anything more about it.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#87143

FromMarco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de>
Date2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Message-ID<10v3j1q$3jdt3$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#87133
On 26.05.2026 02:21 c186282 c186282 wrote:

> Last year, one of my old ISPs, who I still get
> SOME services thru, sent a message saying they
> would no longer support DIAL-UP ... ie hardline
> modem access.

Reasonable, as customer-base for that service is shrinking.
Too slow for current needs and alternatives like satellite-bases access
is available.

theworld.com still lists such a service, is that an option for you?

> DO still have a hardline phone, they keep raising
> the price, trying to get me to quit. It works even
> IF all the cell towers and such go down hard. Still
> worth the money IMHO. And yea, HAVE had the experience
> of all the towers going down. It's called HURRICANE.
> The towers, IF still standing, have about three days
> of generator power. Then ........

Amount of customers is shrinking, spare parts for old exchanges getting
more expensive etc.

> Admittedly dial-up is NOT good with modern, ultra-
> cluttered bullshit-laden web pages. WILL usually
> work though, if you're REALLY patient.
> 
> However you CAN at least do e-mail and a few other
> things. In case of disasters SOME basic stuff will
> still work.
> 
> But this back-redundancy is rapidly disappearing.
> This leaves us with NOTHING in the event of
> cyberwar or even natural disasters.

Telephony is nowadays often done via VoIP - the old ISDN (or
other digital protocols) is being phased out.
In such a case, VoIP is most likely also affected.


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