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"Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY

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  "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-10 22:03 -0500
    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 03:50 +0000
      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-10 23:24 -0500
        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-11 05:54 +0000
          Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 01:23 -0500
            Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-11 22:08 +0000
              Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 23:08 +0000
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 20:49 -0500
                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-12 03:11 +0000
                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-12 04:43 +0000
                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 11:44 +0000
                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 11:43 +0000
                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-12 08:41 -0500
                        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 14:48 +0000
                          Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-12 19:43 +0000
                            Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 20:41 +0000
                            Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-13 06:37 -0500
                              Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 19:03 +0000
                                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-13 14:15 -0500
                                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-14 03:25 +0000
                                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2026-01-14 12:32 +0100
                                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-14 18:32 +0000
                                        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 11:10 -0800
                                          Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-15 03:42 +0000
                                            Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-15 00:43 -0500
                                              Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 08:03 -0800
                                                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-15 18:58 +0000
                                                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-15 11:40 -0800
                                                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-16 02:05 +0000
                                                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-16 08:03 -0500
                                                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 08:14 -0800
                                              Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-15 19:20 +0000
                                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-14 11:33 +0000
                                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-14 19:02 +0000
                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-12 17:36 -0500
                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 11:41 +0000
                    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-12 23:41 +0000
                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-12 23:01 -0500
                      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 08:02 +0000
                        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-13 09:16 +0000
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-11 23:47 +0000
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-11 23:46 +0000
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-11 23:46 +0000
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-01-12 07:02 +0100
              Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-01-12 07:36 -0500
                Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-12 19:58 +0000
                  Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-01-13 21:39 -0800
        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 16:55 +0000
      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2026-01-12 13:40 +0000
    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-01-11 16:21 +0000
      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 16:55 +0000
      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-01-11 09:36 -0800
    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-01-13 19:36 +0800
    Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-14 23:18 +0100
      Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-14 17:34 -0500
        Re: "Bloomberg Financial" Interview - "Programmers" GOING AWAY John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-14 14:59 -0800

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#80965

On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 23:08:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> There is a minimum level of intelligence and social responsibility
> that is required in order for democracy to work.

To be fair, the Yanquis were never given a chance to get it to work.

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#80966

On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 23:08:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> There is a minimum level of intelligence and social responsibility
> that is required in order for democracy to work.

To be fair, the Yanquis were never given a chance to get it to work.

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#80967

On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 23:08:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> There is a minimum level of intelligence and social responsibility
> that is required in order for democracy to work.

To be fair, the Yanquis were never given a chance to get it to work.

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#80977

On So 11 Jan 2026 at 23:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-01-11, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:23:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>    In any case, the subject was "governments" ... and a note that
>>>    'herding humans' is incredibly difficult.
>>>    While we may WANT "kinder and gentler", maybe it's not always
>>>    POSSIBLE. Humans easily, quickly, trend towards anarchy.
>>
>> I naturally lean toward anarchism/libertarianism. However after observing 
>> the circus for all these years I also see the place for authoritarian 
>> governments lest humanity sinks to the lowest common denominator. If it 
>> hasn't already. The gene pool needs a few tons of chlorine.
>
> There is a minimum level of intelligence and social responsibility
> that is required in order for democracy to work.  We're currently
> getting a graphic example of what happens when these factors fall
> below the critical level.

+1

'Andreas

-- 
ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam

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#80984

rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:23:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:
>
>>    In any case, the subject was "governments" ... and a note that
>>    'herding humans' is incredibly difficult.
>>    While we may WANT "kinder and gentler", maybe it's not always
>>    POSSIBLE. Humans easily, quickly, trend towards anarchy.
>
> I naturally lean toward anarchism/libertarianism. However after observing 
> the circus for all these years I also see the place for authoritarian 
> governments lest humanity sinks to the lowest common denominator.

Ah, you want a father figure.

> If it hasn't already. The gene pool needs a few tons of chlorine.

Eugenics?

    <https://www.harpercollins.com/products/davos-man-peter-s-goodman?variant=40359237910562>

    Davos Man:  How the Billionaires Devoured the World
    By Peter S. Goodman

Apparently they're happy to excuse Trump in return for the
benefits to them. And that was just in his first term.

-- 
Ship it.

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#81009

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:36:37 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
> 
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:23:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>    In any case, the subject was "governments" ... and a note that
>>>    'herding humans' is incredibly difficult.
>>>    While we may WANT "kinder and gentler", maybe it's not always
>>>    POSSIBLE. Humans easily, quickly, trend towards anarchy.
>>
>> I naturally lean toward anarchism/libertarianism. However after
>> observing the circus for all these years I also see the place for
>> authoritarian governments lest humanity sinks to the lowest common
>> denominator.
> 
> Ah, you want a father figure.
> 
>> If it hasn't already. The gene pool needs a few tons of chlorine.
> 
> Eugenics?

"The Bible commandment 'thou shalt not kill' is a naivete compared to the 
commandment of life to decadents, thou shalt not beget."

Friedrich Nietzsche

The quote is from 'Nietzsche the Thinker' by William Salter.  He doesn't 
footnote it but it sounds about right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mackintire_Salter

The early 20th century was more concerned with improving society than 
coddling the misfits.

"Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

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#81103

On 1/12/26 11:58, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:36:37 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>> rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
>>
>>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:23:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>     In any case, the subject was "governments" ... and a note that
>>>>     'herding humans' is incredibly difficult.
>>>>     While we may WANT "kinder and gentler", maybe it's not always
>>>>     POSSIBLE. Humans easily, quickly, trend towards anarchy.
>>>
>>> I naturally lean toward anarchism/libertarianism. However after
>>> observing the circus for all these years I also see the place for
>>> authoritarian governments lest humanity sinks to the lowest common
>>> denominator.
>>
>> Ah, you want a father figure.
>>
>>> If it hasn't already. The gene pool needs a few tons of chlorine.
>>
>> Eugenics?
> 
> "The Bible commandment 'thou shalt not kill' is a naivete compared to the
> commandment of life to decadents, thou shalt not beget."
> 
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> The quote is from 'Nietzsche the Thinker' by William Salter.  He doesn't
> footnote it but it sounds about right.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mackintire_Salter
> 
> The early 20th century was more concerned with improving society than
> coddling the misfits.
> 
> "Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
> 
> Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

	One of the stupidest things and intelligent man ever said.

	Negroes and poor white women were being sterilized not for imbecility
but for poverty and skin color.  Native Americans were moved into the 
program
of forced and uninformed and unconsensual sterilization.
	Just part of the white supremacy program.  The NAZI copied us but took
it a step further and murdered those they considered inferior.

	bliss
	

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#80925

On 2026-01-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

>    And even then they sometimes managed to sneak
>    something by. Spent TWO DAYS hand-fixing some
>    older DB info because the users had managed to
>    sneak in some nonsense. They don't Get It, they
>    are In A Hurry, they WON'T learn it. This is
>    the reality.

One of my favourites came up while converting programs
from an old computer that didn't throw data exceptions.
The keyboard on the IBM 029 keypunch had the numeral 1
over the U key, while the vertical bar was right next
door, over the Y key.  A slight overreach and you'd
get an error that you wouldn't notice - either on the
interpreted card or on a subsequent printout - without
looking really closely.

And this was in a file of mortgage data...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#80985

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote at 03:50 this Sunday (GMT):
> On 2026-01-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
>> Only caught part of the interview with some big-biz
>> CEO. Said he stopped hiring programmers a couple of
>> years ago, as soon as CHAT could write code.
>>
>> The interview may come around again tomorrow
>> sometime ... if I see it I'll fill in details.
>>
>> In essence, CHAT and friends now empower the
>> pointy-haired bosses to just describe what
>> they want an app to do and the AI makes it so.
>> No human programmers needed - they're annoying
>> and stinky and expensive anyway, right ?
>
> Back in my first job in the early '70s I came up with
> the image of the ideal programmer: someone who could
> read the manager's mind, wave his hands over a deck
> of blank cards, and have a set of holes appear in it
> that was a binary image that would do exactly what
> he wanted (heavy use of the DWIM instruction).
>
>> Now the real-world QUALITY of AI-generated code
>> is NOT a for-sure thing. Humans can intuit where
>> vulnerabilities may be, what Vlad's boyz might
>> get up to. The AI probably won't ... can't quite
>> think like a creative malicious human.
>
> I once heard programmers described as a particularly
> pessimistic lot; while everyone else was looking for
> the beauty in things, programmers insisted on looking
> for ways things could go wrong.  But it's kept me in
> work for over 50 years...

You know what they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst...

>> Dealing with the idiotic human ERRORS in data
>> entry and such too ... shit, half of my old DB
>> code was dedicated to that exact thing. AMAZING
>> what clueless humans can do. YOU know what it's
>> suppose to be, THEY don't, not at all.
>
> At one PPOE we had a manager that I actually admired.
> If a user came along with an unreasonable request, he
> used a word that wasn't in most manager's vocabulary:
> "No."  One thing he had us do was tighten up input
> editing to where the data would squeak - which resulted
> in our rejecting a hell of a lot of data.  The users
> were outraged.  He told them to get stuffed.

That's pretty cool.

>> "-12152012" as a date ... yep ... SEEN it.
>> Whole paragraphs pasted into 30 byte fields,
>> SEEN it. There's MORE ... MORE ......
>>
>> Trust the pointy-haired bosses to specify
>> code ? Are you MAD ????????
>
> My favourite was when a boss insisted that
> Boolean data fields must be 3 bytes long;
> you need that much to hold "YES" or "NO".


What if the user is using a different language? :(
-- 
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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#80922

On 2026-01-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> "-12152012" as a date ... yep ... SEEN it.

December 15th, 2012. Lots of people put dashes, spaces or slashes
as separators in a date. Just strip all three out on the way in,
In fact, this is much clearer that the ubiquitous 10/12/25
that is so common in the US. Of course, I would prefer is to be
entered as 2012-10-12, but that's just me.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#80927

On 2026-01-11, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> On 2026-01-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
>> "-12152012" as a date ... yep ... SEEN it.
>
> December 15th, 2012. Lots of people put dashes, spaces or slashes
> as separators in a date. Just strip all three out on the way in,
> In fact, this is much clearer that the ubiquitous 10/12/25
> that is so common in the US. Of course, I would prefer is to be
> entered as 2012-10-12, but that's just me.

ISO 8601 all the way for me.  I've realized from the beginning
that the only reasonable way to store dates internally is
year-month-day, and my report programs all print them that
way too.  So far I haven't had any users complain about it.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#80928

On 1/11/26 08:21, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-01-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> "-12152012" as a date ... yep ... SEEN it.
> 
> December 15th, 2012. Lots of people put dashes, spaces or slashes
> as separators in a date. Just strip all three out on the way in,
> In fact, this is much clearer that the ubiquitous 10/12/25
> that is so common in the US. Of course, I would prefer is to be
> entered as 2012-10-12, but that's just me.
> 

	That is the way I feel as well and it helps with file sorting.
	Started doing it that way back in AmigaOS days.
	2026-01.11-09:34
	You ain't the only one...

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026- Linux 6.12.64-pclos1- KDE Plasma 
6.5.4

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#81069

c186282 wrote:
> Only caught part of the interview with some big-biz
> CEO. Said he stopped hiring programmers a couple of
> years ago, as soon as CHAT could write code.
> 
> The interview may come around again tomorrow
> sometime ... if I see it I'll fill in details.
> 
> In essence, CHAT and friends now empower the
> pointy-haired bosses to just describe what
> they want an app to do and the AI makes it so.
> No human programmers needed - they're annoying
> and stinky and expensive anyway, right ?
> 
> Now the real-world QUALITY of AI-generated code
> is NOT a for-sure thing. Humans can intuit where
> vulnerabilities may be, what Vlad's boyz might
> get up to. The AI probably won't ... can't quite
> think like a creative malicious human.
> 
> Dealing with the idiotic human ERRORS in data
> entry and such too ... shit, half of my old DB
> code was dedicated to that exact thing. AMAZING
> what clueless humans can do. YOU know what it's
> suppose to be, THEY don't, not at all.
> 
> "-12152012" as a date ... yep ... SEEN it.
> Whole paragraphs pasted into 30 byte fields,
> SEEN it. There's MORE ... MORE ......
> 
> Trust the pointy-haired bosses to specify
> code ? Are you MAD ????????
> 

yes I asked one of those AI code apps to make a blue noise generator.
Instead I got a pink noise generator (spectrum increases 3 dB/octave to
low frequencies instead of high frequencies)

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#81128

On 2026-01-11 04:03, c186282 wrote:
> Only caught part of the interview with some big-biz
> CEO. Said he stopped hiring programmers a couple of
> years ago, as soon as CHAT could write code.

...

> Trust the pointy-haired bosses to specify
> code ? Are you MAD ????????

Evolution will filter him out, eventually.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#81129

On 1/14/26 17:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2026-01-11 04:03, c186282 wrote:
>> Only caught part of the interview with some big-biz
>> CEO. Said he stopped hiring programmers a couple of
>> years ago, as soon as CHAT could write code.
> 
> ...
> 
>> Trust the pointy-haired bosses to specify
>> code ? Are you MAD ????????
> 
> Evolution will filter him out, eventually.

   The AIs can *already* do a better job than they can  :-)

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#81132

On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 17:34:39 -0500
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> > > Trust the pointy-haired bosses to specify
> > > code ? Are you MAD ????????  
> > 
> > Evolution will filter him out, eventually.  
> 
>    The AIs can *already* do a better job than they can  :-)

It *is* pretty rich that the people most desperate to replace everyone
with chatbots are the exact people who could be most viably replaced
with chatbots.

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