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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 237 — 16 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 03:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:30 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:15 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:19 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:34 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-04 08:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 01:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:18 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:53 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 10:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:30 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:51 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:46 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:30 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:13 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 01:03 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <dDmdnde0rKqOmrz3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87425 |
On 6/3/26 06:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 03/06/2026 03:13, Rich wrote: >> And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by >> default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the >> bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the >> concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who >> invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at >> the other end of the long thin glass tube. > > Have you any idea how remote these are? > > Typically 40-70km, and they don't have that much kit either. > The whole last 30 miles is essentially passive...until > you get to CPE. > > > And the backhaul it relies upon after that is the same as copper based > signals anyway. > > In short it should be *more* reliable in a power cut apart from the CPE. > > If you want redundancy buy your won bloody batteries We do. Alas your "more reliable" fiber ... HOW much "more" in a disaster situation ? Never seen it quantified. Claims - but no numbers, no field data. When that big hurricane pushed up into the central USA all towers/fiber/whatever went DOWN, pretty fast, TOO fast ... a lot of people perished because they could not even call for help. Authorities had to scrounge up a lot of sat-phones/StarLink quick. Wasn't quick enough. Maybe you live in some magical place where nothing serious ever happens ???
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 10:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vrf81$894o$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87477 |
On 04/06/2026 06:03, c186282 wrote: > On 6/3/26 06:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 03/06/2026 03:13, Rich wrote: >>> And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by >>> default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the >>> bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the >>> concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who >>> invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at >>> the other end of the long thin glass tube. >> >> Have you any idea how remote these are? >> >> Typically 40-70km, and they don't have that much kit either. >> The whole last 30 miles is essentially passive...until >> you get to CPE. >> >> >> And the backhaul it relies upon after that is the same as copper based >> signals anyway. >> >> In short it should be *more* reliable in a power cut apart from the CPE. >> >> If you want redundancy buy your won bloody batteries > > We do. > > Alas your "more reliable" fiber ... HOW much "more" > in a disaster situation ? Never seen it quantified. > Claims - but no numbers, no field data. > Depends on te disaster. 100% OK in floods., Not so much earthquakes. But then neither is copper. Ukraine shows that best comms in a war is Starlink or fibre. line of sight RF doesnmt survive jamming > When that big hurricane pushed up into the central USA > all towers/fiber/whatever went DOWN, pretty fast, TOO > fast ... a lot of people perished because they could > not even call for help. Authorities had to scrounge > up a lot of sat-phones/StarLink quick. Wasn't quick > enough. > > Maybe you live in some magical place where nothing > serious ever happens ??? > No,. I live in a place where very serious things have happened, and technology evolved to deal with them By and large we are bot worried about theoretical possibilities. We can look at Ukraine to see what survives a war zone. It turns out to be fiber " Fiber-optic drones began proliferating across other areas of the front, graduating from a niche capability to a staple weapon. Their use has since expanded to such an extent that vast swaths of Ukrainian farmland and forest are now littered with fiber-optic cables shed by drones. Fiber-optic drones have also featured prominently in a series of major battles, including the most consequential fighting of the past year in the Pokrovsk region of eastern Ukraine. By mid-2025, the fiber-optic drone story was no longer so one-sided as Ukraine moved to replicate and adapt the capability. Domestic production surged thanks to Ukraine’s agile ecosystem of innovative defense tech startups. Within months, more than 80 Ukrainian-designed fiber-optic systems had been approved for use, while the number of Ukrainian companies involved in producing or integrating this category of drones has rapidly expanded. Ukrainian developers are now pushing the boundaries of range, with the country’s famous Birds of Magyar drone unit fielding a fiber-optic drone model capable of reaching approximately forty kilometers. What began as a Russian experiment has evolved into a mutual innovation cycle in which Ukraine is now leading in certain aspects. " https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/fiber-optics-drones-have-emerged-as-critical-kit-for-both-russia-and-ukraine/ When you cab lay a 40knm fiber using a drone its not hard to get a basic comms net up. Other methods using RF in non conflict areas include starlink type satellites, in LEO, or any form of 'high point' RF hotspot using e.g. balloons, loitering aircraft or drones, or simply high terrain. Given advances in battery, drone and fibre technology, it would be far quicker and simpler to run a fibre controlled drone equipped with 3G etc into a disaster zone than lay in new copper -- Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor. Peter Thompson
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo2eb$3b3aj$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87349 |
InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: > On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>> batteries. >> >> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >> they privided this, now they provide that". > > The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I > had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available > anymore. Ah, that sounds reasonable, and is very in keeping with cheapening the product as time goes on. > Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power > with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, Yep. What they provide is, hopefully, enough time to call the electric utility to report your power being out. But for extended outages, yes, within at most one day (and that assumes the batteries still contain their original energy amounts) you'll be out of communication. > and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected > to bear. Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge.
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vo3hu$3bkkd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
On 6/2/2026 10:10 PM, Rich wrote: > InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >> to bear. > > Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to > replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. > The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. Worse! They don't even supply the original battery! I had to buy my own as well as the unit. And most people don't even bother and then are surprised when their phone doesn't work when the power goes out. At one point the battery was low on my original battery and the ONT did start beeping every 15 minutes, which was annoying. A Verizon tech happened to be visiting for something else and he got a kick out of seeing some vintage telephones around the home, so I got lucky and he gave me a free replacement battery from the truck. Not sure if that was any skin off his nose... but might have to fake a service call the next time it runs low and see if I can pull the same trick!
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <63a5fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87401 |
On 2026-06-03 04:29, InterLinked wrote: > On 6/2/2026 10:10 PM, Rich wrote: >> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >>> to bear. >> >> Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to >> replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. >> The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. > > Worse! They don't even supply the original battery! I had to buy my own > as well as the unit. And most people don't even bother and then are > surprised when their phone doesn't work when the power goes out. > > At one point the battery was low on my original battery and the ONT did > start beeping every 15 minutes, which was annoying. A Verizon tech > happened to be visiting for something else and he got a kick out of > seeing some vintage telephones around the home, so I got lucky and he > gave me a free replacement battery from the truck. Not sure if that was > any skin off his nose... but might have to fake a service call the next > time it runs low and see if I can pull the same trick! Here the normal thing is to connect traditional phones to the ONT. They maintain the fantasy that everything was as it were (and charge the same prices). Actually, if you ask them, it is not possible to connect real VoIP phones. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <IYZTR.138996$Grwb.101821@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #87401 |
On 2026-06-03, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
> On 6/2/2026 10:10 PM, Rich wrote:
>
>> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected
>>> to bear.
>>
>> Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to
>> replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time.
>> The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge.
>
> Worse! They don't even supply the original battery! I had to buy my own
> as well as the unit. And most people don't even bother and then are
> surprised when their phone doesn't work when the power goes out.
I bought some batteries, but they weren't
included - so I had to buy them again.
-- Stephen Wright
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <8u95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
On 2026-06-03 04:10, Rich wrote: > InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >> to bear. > > Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to > replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. > The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. True lead acid batteries (not gel, ie, not maintenance free) last way longer. 5 years easily, maybe 10. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 00:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <5oKdnYKvkdj2Yr33nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87419 |
On 6/3/26 05:49, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-06-03 04:10, Rich wrote: >> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: > > >>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >>> to bear. >> >> Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to >> replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. >> The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. > > True lead acid batteries (not gel, ie, not maintenance free) last way > longer. 5 years easily, maybe 10. Yep ... 'maint free' do NOT have as much lifespan. The old Edison nickle-iron batteries (KOH electrolyte) are still popular for home PV systems. They can last a very long time - but YOU have to check/fill the electrolyte every so often. I suppose that COULD be automated for cheap these days. And Edison batteries don't EXPLODE like lithiums.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 07:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ijg7fmxhlm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87471 |
On 2026-06-04 06:30, c186282 wrote: > On 6/3/26 05:49, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-06-03 04:10, Rich wrote: >>> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>>> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >> >> >>>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >>>> to bear. >>> >>> Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to >>> replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. >>> The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. >> >> True lead acid batteries (not gel, ie, not maintenance free) last way >> longer. 5 years easily, maybe 10. > > Yep ... 'maint free' do NOT have as much lifespan. > > The old Edison nickle-iron batteries (KOH electrolyte) > are still popular for home PV systems. They can last > a very long time - but YOU have to check/fill the > electrolyte every so often. I suppose that COULD be > automated for cheap these days. > > And Edison batteries don't EXPLODE like lithiums. > Lead acid do: they release hydrogen. I exploded one when I was a teenager. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 09:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vreb2$894o$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87481 |
On 04/06/2026 06:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> And Edison batteries don't EXPLODE like lithiums. >> > > Lead acid do: they release hydrogen. I exploded one when I was a teenager. Yup. boys on the shop floor did that too, when they remove the charger cables from a forklift that had been on charge for a day. -- Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor. Peter Thompson
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp18e$3igml$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
The ultimate solution is of course a house wired for DC power fed to USB style outlets with a big $10,000 battery, in addition to normal mains. You simply feed your LV kit off that and Robert is a relative. Then when renewable energy takes your country's grid down you can still complain to politicians -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as foolish, and by the rulers as useful. (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <NYZTR.139004$Grwb.24822@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #87426 |
On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > The ultimate solution is of course a house wired for DC power fed to USB > style outlets with a big $10,000 battery, in addition to normal mains. > > You simply feed your LV kit off that and Robert is a relative. > > Then when renewable energy takes your country's grid down you can still > complain to politicians And they can still ignore you. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-04 02:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <5oKdnb2vkdixirz3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87453 |
On 6/3/26 14:00, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> The ultimate solution is of course a house wired for DC power fed to USB >> style outlets with a big $10,000 battery, in addition to normal mains. >> >> You simply feed your LV kit off that and Robert is a relative. >> >> Then when renewable energy takes your country's grid down you can still >> complain to politicians > > And they can still ignore you. WILL. They've already got their kick-backs. That's how realpolitik works - always has. Any other line of BS ... Machiavellian illusion. There was once hope for "moon bounce" comms - laser beams and reflectors. It HAS been done, but it's mostly impractical - you need dangerously strong lasers and the 2sec(x2) bounce time would be just AWFUL with any modern web apps. Oh, the moon has to be UP in your area :-) Despite limits, something like StarLink is probably the best backup approach. I'm looking into a subscription as a backup - not free, but it'd work so long as I could power the terminal somehow. DO have one large PV panel in the junk shed, about 200 watts @ 12v. There's a 12v->120v converter in there somewhere too with a little batt-charge plug, I think. That oughtta do it. Better check .... There's a 'local' microwave provider near me also, current page info is kinda iffy though. They can provide net to places outside the reach of Comcast or most ATT services into the countryside. Just call and they will screw an antenna thingie to yer house. Again, not a great volume-data provider, but it'd get ya past a disaster, could still do banking and such. Anyway, between NATURAL disasters, CORPORATE disasters and CYBER-WAR disasters... odd backup routes are now more important than ever. The older you get the more you realize how badly things can get FUCKED UP. Hmm ... maybe ought to buy an (unlicensed) HAM set ... in a disaster nobody's gonna be checking licenses. Doesn't have to be major, just 100 watts or so. That'll get you 50-100 miles, better than 'CB'.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <97OcnWwzhIQAsoT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87255 |
Argue crap all you want - the providers are generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running and I support that. Note the theme here - "Redundancy". Keep EVERYTHING that worked. Add on new stuff all you want, but ..... Use the Laws. Hire class-action lawyers if needed to kick ass. Oh, and even TELEGRAPH service should be preserved over a few copper lines. Slow, but WORKED and was very robust. First comm network that could use pre-Tube/Transistor amplifiers ... just relays. Edison figured out how to record the traffic even as a youth. On the whole, "new" is MUCH more technically complicated at every level. That complication means MANY more ways for it to FAIL. OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a LONG time. So HOW do you call an ambulance ? Your bank ? You AREN'T ... unless we've maintained some lower-tech REDUNDANCY.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vivi4$1us3j$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87265 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Argue crap all you want - the providers are > generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running > and I support that. And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part is why. > OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off > several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the > 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a > LONG time. Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects to at that switch now in 2026? The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early 70's. It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and bytes around. Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP be exploded? While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)).
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bIScnQGbw7sQjoD3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87318 |
On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >> and I support that. > > And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was > mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part > is why. > >> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >> LONG time. > > Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that > begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to > pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects > to at that switch now in 2026? > > The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical > crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early > 70's. Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! > It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on > the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy > computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and > bytes around. > > Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP > be exploded? > > While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the > diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, > because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local > switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service > now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital > computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL manually connect at least a sub-portion of the copper. Most tech fried ... hey ... telegraphy works :-) Simple relay-based line amps. Worked in 1850 and can work now over remaining POTS lines. Find a neighborhood 'telegraph guy'.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ni40fmxe5o.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87324 |
On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: > On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>> and I support that. >> >> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >> is why. >> >>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>> LONG time. >> >> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >> to at that switch now in 2026? >> >> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >> 70's. > > Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! > >> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >> bytes around. >> >> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >> be exploded? >> >> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). > > Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL > manually connect at least a sub-portion of the > copper. Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. > > Most tech fried ... hey ... telegraphy works :-) > Simple relay-based line amps. Worked in 1850 and > can work now over remaining POTS lines. Find a > neighborhood 'telegraph guy'. > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vkfub$2ci6m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87330 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>> and I support that. >>> >>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>> is why. >>> >>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>> LONG time. >>> >>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>> >>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>> 70's. >> >> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >> >>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>> bytes around. >>> >>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>> be exploded? >>> >>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >> >> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >> copper. > > Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables > to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the > wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" is a non-trivial job for the non-expert.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <9u61fmxgao.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87339 |
On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>>> and I support that. >>>> >>>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>>> is why. >>>> >>>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>>> LONG time. >>>> >>>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>>> >>>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>>> 70's. >>> >>> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >>> >>>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>>> bytes around. >>>> >>>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>>> be exploded? >>>> >>>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >>> >>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >>> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >>> copper. >> >> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables >> to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the >> wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. > > I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of > 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly > not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 > red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" > is a non-trivial job for the non-expert. Heh, absolutely. Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the English name, a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, connecting to 4000 at the other side which go to the actual switch. These are labelled, but you need to know the system. I have not wired these, so here I have to guess, but the phone number is not written here. Rather wire number of the bundle on the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You need a table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, possibly printed and stored in large binders. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo3b2$3b3aj$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87343 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>>>> and I support that. >>>>> >>>>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>>>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>>>> is why. >>>>> >>>>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>>>> LONG time. >>>>> >>>>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>>>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>>>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>>>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>>>> >>>>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>>>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>>>> 70's. >>>> >>>> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >>>> >>>>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>>>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>>>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>>>> bytes around. >>>>> >>>>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>>>> be exploded? >>>>> >>>>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>>>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>>>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>>>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>>>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>>>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >>>> >>>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >>>> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >>>> copper. >>> >>> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables >>> to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the >>> wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. >> >> I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of >> 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly >> not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 >> red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" >> is a non-trivial job for the non-expert. > > Heh, absolutely. > > Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the English name, > a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, connecting to 4000 at > the other side which go to the actual switch. These are labelled, but > you need to know the system. I have not wired these, so here I have to > guess, but the phone number is not written here. Rather wire number of > the bundle on the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You > need a table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, possibly > printed and stored in large binders. Given how many lines terminated in any given central office building, there has to be a labeling system. But it won't be something that anyone can just walk into and begin connecting random lengths of spare copper pairs onto to "reconnect" a small portion of customers to each other. And yes, no dialing. You get connected to your Aunt Edna two blocks over, but you two are the only two who get to talk (unless the "fixer" starts wiring a party line, but then too many on a party line makes for a mess too). Expecting that some lineman's going to be able to go cross connecting folks who want to talk (even if they wanted to all call the local hospital) to the destination to which they want to talk to, by manually wiring them up is rather insane. It's just not feasable to do manually anymore, if the switching computers that usually do it are fried then there's lots of useless copper pairs connecting to dead phones.
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