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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread

Redundancy/Survival

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Last post2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 193 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

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#87256

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Message-ID<n7sjnrFu3pfU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87252
On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>    landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...

There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them 
saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it 
isn't a huge deal.

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#87261

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Message-ID<97OcnW0zhIRttIT3nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to#87256
On 5/29/26 00:41, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>     landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
> 
> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
> isn't a huge deal.


   My AT&T is *very* expensive now ... they ARE trying
   to scare everybody away from their copper lines.

   For OUR good ? NO !

   Well, I can afford it ... I'm gonna put up with their
   extortion. MAY be some lawyers who'll get some of that
   back later on.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87266

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Message-ID<n7sq8kFu3pfU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87261
On Fri, 29 May 2026 01:53:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    My AT&T is *very* expensive now ... they ARE trying to scare
>    everybody away from their copper lines.

CenturyLink doesn't seem to be trying to scare people away but the cost 
has risen with more taxes and so forth. Usually I have 4G on the T-Mobile 
net but sometimes I need to move the phone around. So far the copper 
connection works when I pick it up.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87335

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Message-ID<10vk0s8$27ab8$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87256
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>    landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
> 
> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them 
> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it 
> isn't a huge deal.

The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a 
single monopoly.

You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local 
service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.

I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local 
only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make 
direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever 
needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling 
cards" services.

And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.

The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in 
the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very 
concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long 
distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87345

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Message-ID<n081fmxjks.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87335
On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>     But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>>     landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
>>
>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
>> isn't a huge deal.
> 
> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
> single monopoly.
> 
> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
> 
> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
> cards" services.
> 
> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
> 
> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very
> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).

No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(

Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.

And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87404

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
Message-ID<10vo4ii$3b3aj$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87345
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>     But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>>>     landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
>>>
>>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
>>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
>>> isn't a huge deal.
>> 
>> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
>> single monopoly.
>> 
>> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
>> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
>> 
>> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
>> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
>> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
>> cards" services.
>> 
>> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
>> 
>> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
>> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very
>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
>> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
> 
> No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
> 
> Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
> 
> And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.

The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as 
in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and 
"long distance" service.  The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby 
bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of 
now).  The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance 
provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for 
phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.

It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in 
the US.

In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP 
provider).  Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon 
POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month.  That is for 
"metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like 
$0.001/minute, i.e.  so small as to be nearly zero).  But I can call my 
next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away) 
for the same $0.001/minute.  They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well, 
but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever 
make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make 
sense in my case.

Now, yes, I'm still "paying Verizon", as I'm paying them for FIOS 
internet service, so that I 'can' then also use VOIP for phone service.  
But I'd be paying for the internet service in any case, so it's not 
like I have FIOS /just/ to support the VOIP phone service.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87408

FromInterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org>
Date2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
Message-ID<10voag2$3d2ba$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87404
On 6/2/2026 10:46 PM, Rich wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>>>>      landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
>>>>
>>>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
>>>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
>>>> isn't a huge deal.
>>>
>>> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
>>> single monopoly.
>>>
>>> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
>>> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
>>>
>>> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
>>> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
>>> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
>>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
>>> cards" services.
>>>
>>> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
>>>
>>> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
>>> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very
>>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
>>> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
>>
>> No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
>>
>> Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
>>
>> And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.
> 
> The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as
> in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and
> "long distance" service.  The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby
> bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of
> now).  The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance
> provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for
> phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.
> 
> It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in
> the US.
> 
> In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP
> provider).  Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon
> POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month.  That is for
> "metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like
> $0.001/minute, i.e.  so small as to be nearly zero).  But I can call my
> next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away)
> for the same $0.001/minute.  They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well,
> but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever
> make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make
> sense in my case.

But this is conflating with regulated facilities based phone service 
with unregulated over the top services. Also, they are not mutually 
exclusive. I have over 70 phone numbers myself through IP-based CLECs 
and thousands of minutes of call volume flow monthly through various 
Asterisk systems of mine for me and other folks. But I still keep the 
regulated POTS line because it serves a fundamentally different purpose. 
VoIP is great for cheap phone calls that are fine if they are 
best-effort, drop a few packets, etc. etc. Relying on "cheap" stuff for 
life/death situations is a different matter.

Quality is another factor. Verizon's 5c/min long-distance plan is 
TDM-based, very good quality that is hard to match with VoIP services. I 
don't use it much, but I will often use it if I know I'm calling another 
POTS line. If I'm calling a VoIP or wireless number, then it's not worth 
the cost since the quality will suck anyways, and I send the call 
through a VoIP carrier.

(And sometimes, I use them in tandem; placing a call to one of my VoIP 
numbers over the POTS line and then terminating the call often results 
in a noticeably better connection than doing "over the top VoIP" using a 
residential broadband connection.)

I realize that most people these days don't care about voice quality and 
are quite happy with poor quality VoIP services or cell phones. I think 
a lot of people have forgotten or don't even know what good quality 
phone calls even sound like.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87414

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
Message-ID<86ecndgZ6pfcSoL3nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87408
On 6/3/26 00:27, InterLinked wrote:
 > On 6/2/2026 10:46 PM, Rich wrote:
 >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
 >>> On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
 >>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
 >>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>>      But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
 >>>>>>      landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
 >>>>>
 >>>>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can
 >>>>> see them
 >>>>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo 
so it
 >>>>> isn't a huge deal.
 >>>>
 >>>> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
 >>>> single monopoly.
 >>>>
 >>>> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
 >>>> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
 >>>>
 >>>> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
 >>>> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
 >>>> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
 >>>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
 >>>> cards" services.
 >>>>
 >>>> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
 >>>>
 >>>> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
 >>>> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the 
very
 >>>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
 >>>> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
 >>>
 >>> No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
 >>>
 >>> Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
 >>>
 >>> And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.
 >>
 >> The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as
 >> in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and
 >> "long distance" service.  The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby
 >> bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of
 >> now).  The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance
 >> provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for
 >> phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.
 >>
 >> It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in
 >> the US.
 >>
 >> In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP
 >> provider).  Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon
 >> POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month.  That is for
 >> "metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like
 >> $0.001/minute, i.e.  so small as to be nearly zero).  But I can call my
 >> next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away)
 >> for the same $0.001/minute.  They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well,
 >> but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever
 >> make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make
 >> sense in my case.
 >
 > But this is conflating with regulated facilities based phone service
 > with unregulated over the top services. Also, they are not mutually
 > exclusive. I have over 70 phone numbers myself through IP-based CLECs
 > and thousands of minutes of call volume flow monthly through various
 > Asterisk systems of mine for me and other folks. But I still keep the
 > regulated POTS line because it serves a fundamentally different purpose.
 > VoIP is great for cheap phone calls that are fine if they are best-
 > effort, drop a few packets, etc. etc. Relying on "cheap" stuff for life/
 > death situations is a different matter.

   OK - "unlimited free" may NOT be so 'realistic'. Sending
   info COSTS in many ways. Ruin that and you've ruined yer
   whole comm system (or have to support it with ridiculous
   'socialistic' means).

 > Quality is another factor. Verizon's 5c/min long-distance plan is TDM-
 > based, very good quality that is hard to match with VoIP services. I
 > don't use it much, but I will often use it if I know I'm calling another
 > POTS line. If I'm calling a VoIP or wireless number, then it's not worth
 > the cost since the quality will suck anyways, and I send the call
 > through a VoIP carrier.

   "Quality" for digital voice/data comms WAS bad - but
   so was the TECH.

   Now (using vastly more CPU/MEM/GPUs) it's most always
   gonna be very good. VOIP and related are now very
   decent - very low latency and high quality. TOOK awhile.

 > (And sometimes, I use them in tandem; placing a call to one of my VoIP
 > numbers over the POTS line and then terminating the call often results
 > in a noticeably better connection than doing "over the top VoIP" using a
 > residential broadband connection.)

   Modern comms piggyback, or overlay, on EVERY available
   connection method. Yer TCP frames likely traverse fiber,
   copper, microwave, maybe even sat. It's why UDP isn't
   that good outside yer door.

 > I realize that most people these days don't care about voice
 > and  are quite happy with poor quality VoIP services or cell
 > phones. I think a lot of people have forgotten or don't even
 > know what good quality phone calls even sound like.

   Well, "poor" quality now was "Just GREAT" quality even
   10-15 years ago.

   Also, Gen-Z/A2 are AFRAID to talk to actual humans ...
   not sure why but it's documented. They'll text the
   bartender rather than call-out an order. Worrisome.
   Socially decompositional. Soon they'll even be afraid
   to text ...... then it's ALL Done. All Fall Down
   Go Boom. Vlad/Xi will be delighted - most Westerners
   socially/psych paralyzed, unable to cooperate in
   real time with anyone on any subject.

   Note, sorry, my provider/TBird crapped ... had to
   resend using a copy ....

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87413

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
Message-ID<a9qdnfZK25eFT4L3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87404
On 6/2/26 22:46, Rich wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>>>>      landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
>>>>
>>>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
>>>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
>>>> isn't a huge deal.
>>>
>>> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
>>> single monopoly.
>>>
>>> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
>>> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
>>>
>>> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
>>> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
>>> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
>>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
>>> cards" services.
>>>
>>> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
>>>
>>> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
>>> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very
>>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
>>> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
>>
>> No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
>>
>> Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
>>
>> And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.
> 
> The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as
> in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and
> "long distance" service.  The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby
> bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of
> now).  The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance
> provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for
> phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.
> 
> It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in
> the US.
> 
> In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP
> provider).  Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon
> POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month.  That is for
> "metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like
> $0.001/minute, i.e.  so small as to be nearly zero).  But I can call my
> next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away)
> for the same $0.001/minute.  They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well,
> but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever
> make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make
> sense in my case.
> 
> Now, yes, I'm still "paying Verizon", as I'm paying them for FIOS
> internet service, so that I 'can' then also use VOIP for phone service.
> But I'd be paying for the internet service in any case, so it's not
> like I have FIOS /just/ to support the VOIP phone service.


   My Biz Sense is quasi-Libertarian. USUALLY there are good
   reasons to break up 'monopolies' - lowers prices for all
   and spurs innovation.

   However in the Bell/ATT case, the "Baby Bells" were NOT
   an improvement by and large. Still aren't, even the
   remaining babies double-up on the old ATT lines/links.
   The sheer investment to go it totally alone - WAY TOO !
   Also, how does network-A connect to network-B ? That
   does NOT work without massive expenses.

   A worldwide comm system pretty much NEEDS to be
   homogenous and centrally planned/managed. Prices
   creeping too much ? Deal with THAT problem rather
   than destroy the backbone.

   Old days, you COULD dial from NYC to some random
   Nevada, or Mongolian, desert line Straight-Up. Might
   be a little 'static' sometimes but you could have
   a conversation. AFTER the anti-trust BS (wonder how
   may pols got big kickbacks ?) that wasn't as easy/cheap
   anymore.

   ATT has kind-of put it all back together again.
   Took a long time and weird legal maneuvers though.

   The "Libertarian perspective" is a GUIDE - but
   not an all-purpose paradigm. Gotta THINK.

   Politicians NEVER think ... except of their
   campaign finance fund ........

   Note, this kind of "thinking" does, and can even
   more severely, impact Linux/Unix. M$/Apple would
   LIKE 'alternatives' DESTROYED and will offer perks
   if pols will help make it happen by whatever means.

   Recent other thread, how "Child Protection" laws
   can completely ruin Linux/open-source. It is NOT
   a trivial speculative issue at all - might easily
   be The Dagger M$ and Apple have long wanted.

   Umm ... come up with some "underground" system
   like NOW.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87421

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
Message-ID<p9b5fmxcl.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87404
On 2026-06-03 04:46, Rich wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my
>>>>>      landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ...
>>>>
>>>> There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them
>>>> saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it
>>>> isn't a huge deal.
>>>
>>> The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
>>> single monopoly.
>>>
>>> You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
>>> service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
>>>
>>> I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
>>> only.  And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
>>> direct-dialed long distance calls.  For the once in five years I ever
>>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
>>> cards" services.
>>>
>>> And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
>>>
>>> The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
>>> the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very
>>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
>>> distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
>>
>> No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
>>
>> Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
>>
>> And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.
> 
> The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as
> in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and
> "long distance" service.  The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby
> bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of
> now).  The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance
> provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for
> phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.
> 

Curious.

> It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in
> the US.

Yes, local exchanges connected to routing exchanges for long distance, 
these to international. All the same company, except the other countries 
networks. The telcos I worked for were small, but the setup at 
Telefonica was huge. Not as huge as in the USA :-)

> 
> In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP
> provider).  Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon
> POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month.  That is for
> "metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like
> $0.001/minute, i.e.  so small as to be nearly zero).  But I can call my
> next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away)
> for the same $0.001/minute.  They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well,
> but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever
> make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make
> sense in my case.

That's how it should be.

Telefónica pretends we still have POTS, just using fibre instead of 
copper. We connect old phones to the ONT or router, we pay "normal" fees 
as always, and the telco denies it is possible to connect a Cisco VoIP 
phone to the ethernet wire. They do not publish the configuration, but 
some have reverse engineered it.

> 
> Now, yes, I'm still "paying Verizon", as I'm paying them for FIOS
> internet service, so that I 'can' then also use VOIP for phone service.
> But I'd be paying for the internet service in any case, so it's not
> like I have FIOS /just/ to support the VOIP phone service.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87432

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
Message-ID<10vp207$3igml$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87421
On 03/06/2026 11:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Telefónica pretends we still have POTS, just using fibre instead of 
> copper. We connect old phones to the ONT or router, we pay "normal" fees 
> as always, and the telco denies it is possible to connect a Cisco VoIP 
> phone to the ethernet wire. They do not publish the configuration, but 
> some have reverse engineered it.

Good old EU centralised services paid for by taxpayers and riddled with 
unions.


-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#87436

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
Message-ID<10vp3dh$3io0e$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87432
On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/06/2026 11:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Telefónica pretends we still have POTS, just using fibre instead of
>> copper. We connect old phones to the ONT or router, we pay "normal"
>> fees as always, and the telco denies it is possible to connect a
>> Cisco VoIP phone to the ethernet wire. They do not publish the
>> configuration, but some have reverse engineered it.
>
> Good old EU centralised services paid for by taxpayers and riddled
> with unions.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

But others will say that's how to do it efficiently, costing less to
taxpayers, and leading to a better economy and society.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#87440

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
Message-ID<10vpb5d$3m0u8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87436
On 03/06/2026 12:33, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 03/06/2026 11:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> Telefónica pretends we still have POTS, just using fibre instead of
>>> copper. We connect old phones to the ONT or router, we pay "normal"
>>> fees as always, and the telco denies it is possible to connect a
>>> Cisco VoIP phone to the ethernet wire. They do not publish the
>>> configuration, but some have reverse engineered it.
>>
>> Good old EU centralised services paid for by taxpayers and riddled
>> with unions.
> 
> You say that like it's a bad thing.
> 
> But others will say that's how to do it efficiently, costing less to
> taxpayers, and leading to a better economy and society.
> 
LOL!

WE tried that already.

UK model is not bad, regulator with teeth and a private company setup.
Companies allowed to make money on condition they provide complete 
services even to loss making customers and wherever possible have no 
monopoly





-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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#87334

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Message-ID<10vk089$27ab8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87252
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>>     There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>     service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>     forgotten,
>>>     but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>> 
>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
> 
>   I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
> 
>   But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>   to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>   for an excuse ...

They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission 
(already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's 
permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that, 
you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X" 
by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you 
have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to 
elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.

>   They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>   ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>   are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.

Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the 
regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they 
waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to 
change their minds later.

>   Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses 
>   different xxx-0123 numbers always now.

Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area" 
based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes" 
(your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.

New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but 
that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx- 
prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.

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#87346

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Message-ID<e681fmxjks.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87334
On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>      service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>      forgotten,
>>>>      but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>
>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>
>>    I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>
>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>    to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>    for an excuse ...
> 
> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
> 
>>    They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>    ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>    are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
> 
> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
> change their minds later.
> 
>>    Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>    different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
> 
> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
> 
> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
> 


It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses 
different numeration than mobile. Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#87362

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Message-ID<10vm8d8$2prmk$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87346
On 2026-06-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>>      service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>>      forgotten,
>>>>>      but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>>
>>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>>
>>>    I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>>
>>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>>    to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>>    for an excuse ...
>>
>> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
>> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
>> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
>> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
>> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
>> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
>> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
>>
>>>    They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>>    ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>>    are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
>>
>> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
>> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
>> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
>> change their minds later.
>>
>>>    Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>>    different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
>>
>> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
>> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
>> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
>>
>> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
>> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
>> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
>>
>
>
> It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses
> different numeration than mobile.

Do you get a landline prefix or a "VoIP" prefix, or are both the same in
Spain?  Across one of the borders, Portugal has or had a different (3)
prefix for VoIP services, while landlines use 2.

<https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BAmeros_de_telefone_em_Portugal#Plano_Nacional_de_Numera%C3%A7%C3%A3o>

> Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.

(With GSM, wasn't the "generation" a criterion for that? Was it 4G that
started requiring a VoIP-like approach?)

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#87367

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Message-ID<vtq2fmxa11.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87362
On 2026-06-02 11:39, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-06-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>       There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>>>       service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>>>       forgotten,
>>>>>>       but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>>>
>>>>     I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>>>
>>>>     But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>>>     to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>>>     for an excuse ...
>>>
>>> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
>>> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
>>> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
>>> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
>>> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
>>> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
>>> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
>>>
>>>>     They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>>>     ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>>>     are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
>>>
>>> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
>>> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
>>> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
>>> change their minds later.
>>>
>>>>     Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>>>     different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
>>>
>>> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
>>> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
>>> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
>>>
>>> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
>>> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
>>> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses
>> different numeration than mobile.
> 
> Do you get a landline prefix or a "VoIP" prefix, or are both the same in
> Spain?

A traditional landline number.

There is a VoIP system behind it, but the identifiers and the configs 
are not published. Not accessible except by reverse engineering. It is 
even possible that a 10.*.*.* network is involved (I'm not sure).

>  Across one of the borders, Portugal has or had a different (3)
> prefix for VoIP services, while landlines use 2.
> 
> <https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BAmeros_de_telefone_em_Portugal#Plano_Nacional_de_Numera%C3%A7%C3%A3o>
> 
>> Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.
> 
> (With GSM, wasn't the "generation" a criterion for that? Was it 4G that
> started requiring a VoIP-like approach?)

I don't know, I'm no longer working in that field :-)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#87405

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
Message-ID<10vo56p$3b3aj$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87362
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-06-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-01 15:08, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>      There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your
>>>>>>      service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long
>>>>>>      forgotten,
>>>>>>      but still bleeding money from their accounts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long
>>>>> distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years.
>>>>> Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last
>>>>> three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
>>>>
>>>>    I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account.
>>>>
>>>>    But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse
>>>>    to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING
>>>>    for an excuse ...
>>>
>>> They don't need an excuse.  They just need the FCC's permission
>>> (already done) and your local state's telephone regulatory agency's
>>> permission (the process is *likely* underway).  Once they have that,
>>> you'll be given an ultimatium.  Switch to their newfangled "service X"
>>> by date Y.  After date Y your old POTS line will go dead, and if you
>>> have not "switched to newfangled Y" or ported your number out to
>>> elsewhere, you'll also lose "rental ownership" of the phone number.
>>>
>>>>    They DID send a letter saying they were not going to
>>>>    ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they
>>>>    are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all.
>>>
>>> Again, they don't go looking for an excuse.  They sweettalk the
>>> regulators into allowing it, and once the regulators say "ok", they
>>> waste no time making sure there is no option for the regulators to
>>> change their minds later.
>>>
>>>>    Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses
>>>>    different xxx-0123 numbers always now.
>>>
>>> Not anymore.  You can move any number anywhere now.  The old "area"
>>> based exchange idea for both "area codes" and for "exchange codes"
>>> (your xxx- above) has been long gone for years.
>>>
>>> New wireless service might be handing out different xxx- prefixes, but
>>> that's because there's no spare numbers left in your current xxx-
>>> prefix.  But the number you have now *can* be moved.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is just administrative. Here in Spain "landline" (VoIP) uses
>> different numeration than mobile.
> 
> Do you get a landline prefix or a "VoIP" prefix, or are both the same in
> Spain?  Across one of the borders, Portugal has or had a different (3)
> prefix for VoIP services, while landlines use 2.
> 
> <https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BAmeros_de_telefone_em_Portugal#Plano_Nacional_de_Numera%C3%A7%C3%A3o>
> 
>> Mobile may actually be not using VoIP yet.
> 
> (With GSM, wasn't the "generation" a criterion for that? Was it 4G that
> started requiring a VoIP-like approach?)

4G started the transition to cell phones being /effectively/ VOIP.  It 
is called VoLTE (Voice over LTE).  4G no longer has a dedicated 
synchronous TDM "phone channel" like 3G wireless had.  Voice calls are 
handled simply as more network data being sent over the LTE data 
channel.  

Notably, at least in the US, they pulled the same stunt they previously 
pulled for long distance.  The call's being handled by sending a 
network data stream over LTE, but was still being charged as if your 
handset were reserving one of a limited number of TDM slots on the 
antenna pole your handset is linked to currently.  That is until 
competition compelled all of them to offer 'unlimited minutes to 
everywhere for one low price'.

5G is purely VOIP (it may not be TCP/IP VOIP the actual protocol, but 
it is "digitzed voice over a data network") over the 5G LTE network for 
the voice calls.  They just droped the VoLTE label as it was no longer 
"new fangled" at the 5G stage.

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#87170

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Message-ID<TJycnTERSJjsxIv3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87165
On 5/26/26 18:09, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like
>>> isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price.
>>
>>    Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and
>>    the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN
>>    workers.
>>
>>    They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty.
> 
> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that
> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability
> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are
> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or
> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level.

   That IS a factor.

> They don't mind at all sending a tech. out to drag in fiber, given that
> each one moves them from "regulated service" to "unregulated service".

   Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
   have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
   with it.

   "Comcast" will probably have cable/Fiber for awhile
   yet, but their price has become extreme. Can't even
   get that anymore, tiny bushes became huge trees over
   time and it'd cost me thousands to clear a path for
   a cable-tv wire now. When my old one - literally on
   the ground since Covid days - goes, well, dish.

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#87195

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Message-ID<10v6qg9$2ot19$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87170
On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote:
> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll
>    have fired all the humans who knew how to deal
>    with it.

Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper


-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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