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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 187 — 16 participants |
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Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vng30$376sh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87380 |
On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: > One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you actually > need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying the UPS. A > lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, so a > modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also carrying a PC, > monitor, printer, etc. One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. > I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important depends on > it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant drops, then > more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays online, then > the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from place to place. I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network going for any meaningful length of time.
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| From | TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <a3a9e781b1087009b1ee@dev.null> |
| In reply to | #87389 |
>On Tue, 2 Jun 2026 16:57:02 -0400, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: >> One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you actually >> need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying the UPS. >> A >> lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, so a >> modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also carrying a PC, >> monitor, printer, etc. > >One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS >involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back >to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the >backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. > >There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, >of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good >UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. > >> I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important depends >> on >> it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant drops, >> then >> more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays online, >> then >> the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. > >Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was >tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that >even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet >immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active >equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. > >In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because >I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) > >I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out >during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from >place to place. > >I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. >I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps >working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, >etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network >going for any meaningful length of time. Agreed. If the load is all small DC gear, a purpose-built DC UPS or a battery system with regulated 12 V / 9 V / 5 V outputs is often a better fit than dragging the power through an inverter and a pile of wall warts. The catches are worth checking before buying parts: the connector polarity, the actual voltage tolerance of the ONT/router, startup current, and whether the unit passes clean power while charging. Some cheap "12 V UPS" boxes are really just lithium packs with a boost converter and optimistic labels. A safe approach is to measure the real load, size the battery for the desired runtime with conversion losses included, add proper fusing, then do the same planned outage test. That answers both questions: whether the local gear survives and whether the provider side stays up long enough to matter. -- TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> "I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4g95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87389 |
On 2026-06-02 22:57, InterLinked wrote: > On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: >> One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you >> actually >> need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying >> the UPS. A >> lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, >> so a >> modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also >> carrying a PC, >> monitor, printer, etc. > > One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS > involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back > to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the > backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. Yes. There are DC UPS out there, though. I posted some samples yesterday: <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/APC-Back-UPS-Connect-CP12036LI-Controladores/dp/B0CJ5D89Z9> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Internal-Battery-Lightweight-Protects-Overloads/dp/B07DPTF9VW> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Salicru-658BB000009-SPS-net2/dp/B0DHL4XRBW/> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Shanqiu-Router-Surveillance-Camera-Output/dp/B0FF9QS7LK/> > > There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, > of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good > UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. Not the best thing, but it is what I have now. It powers several things, including my TV set, the wireless phone... > >> I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important >> depends on >> it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant >> drops, then >> more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays >> online, then >> the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. > > Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was > tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that > even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet > immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active > equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. > When there was a energy zero here not yet a month ago, I forgot to verify that point. I think I did not have fibre. I was busy orderly powering down computers and forgot to test internet. Initially I did not know the whole of Spain went down. > In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because > I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) > > I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out > during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from > place to place. > > I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. > I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps > working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, > etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network > going for any meaningful length of time. Indeed. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo2kk$3b3aj$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87379 |
Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote: > On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>>> batteries. >>> >>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >>> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >>> they privided this, now they provide that". >> >> The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I >> had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available >> anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power >> with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. > > Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> > Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. > The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than > maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A > customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess > whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood > concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. Damn, so they've completly given up on even giving the impression that the replacement fiber might appear to be some level of equivalent to the old POTS network. And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at the other end of the long thin glass tube.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tp95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87398 |
On 2026-06-03 04:13, Rich wrote: > Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>>>> batteries. >>>> >>>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >>>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >>>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >>>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >>>> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >>>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >>>> they privided this, now they provide that". >>> >>> The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I >>> had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available >>> anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power >>> with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, >>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. >> >> Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> >> Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. >> The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than >> maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A >> customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess >> whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood >> concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. > > Damn, so they've completly given up on even giving the impression that > the replacement fiber might appear to be some level of equivalent to > the old POTS network. > > And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by > default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the > bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the > concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who > invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at > the other end of the long thin glass tube. > During the energy zero in Spain, I found that I had mobile phone coverage the full time. Not many people did, but I live relatively near a big exchange with big batteries and probably a generator. Something scares me more than no internet during a power failure: being trapped in an elevator. Not many provide a safety to drop the elevator to the next floor and open the door. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp0rn$3igml$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87398 |
On 03/06/2026 03:13, Rich wrote: > And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by > default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the > bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the > concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who > invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at > the other end of the long thin glass tube. Have you any idea how remote these are? Typically 40-70km, and they don't have that much kit either. The whole last 30 miles is essentially passive...until you get to CPE. And the backhaul it relies upon after that is the same as copper based signals anyway. In short it should be *more* reliable in a power cut apart from the CPE. If you want redundancy buy your won bloody batteries -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo2eb$3b3aj$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87349 |
InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: > On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>> batteries. >> >> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >> they privided this, now they provide that". > > The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I > had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available > anymore. Ah, that sounds reasonable, and is very in keeping with cheapening the product as time goes on. > Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power > with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, Yep. What they provide is, hopefully, enough time to call the electric utility to report your power being out. But for extended outages, yes, within at most one day (and that assumes the batteries still contain their original energy amounts) you'll be out of communication. > and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected > to bear. Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge.
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vo3hu$3bkkd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
On 6/2/2026 10:10 PM, Rich wrote: > InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >> to bear. > > Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to > replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. > The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. Worse! They don't even supply the original battery! I had to buy my own as well as the unit. And most people don't even bother and then are surprised when their phone doesn't work when the power goes out. At one point the battery was low on my original battery and the ONT did start beeping every 15 minutes, which was annoying. A Verizon tech happened to be visiting for something else and he got a kick out of seeing some vintage telephones around the home, so I got lucky and he gave me a free replacement battery from the truck. Not sure if that was any skin off his nose... but might have to fake a service call the next time it runs low and see if I can pull the same trick!
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <63a5fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87401 |
On 2026-06-03 04:29, InterLinked wrote: > On 6/2/2026 10:10 PM, Rich wrote: >> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >>> to bear. >> >> Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to >> replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. >> The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. > > Worse! They don't even supply the original battery! I had to buy my own > as well as the unit. And most people don't even bother and then are > surprised when their phone doesn't work when the power goes out. > > At one point the battery was low on my original battery and the ONT did > start beeping every 15 minutes, which was annoying. A Verizon tech > happened to be visiting for something else and he got a kick out of > seeing some vintage telephones around the home, so I got lucky and he > gave me a free replacement battery from the truck. Not sure if that was > any skin off his nose... but might have to fake a service call the next > time it runs low and see if I can pull the same trick! Here the normal thing is to connect traditional phones to the ONT. They maintain the fantasy that everything was as it were (and charge the same prices). Actually, if you ask them, it is not possible to connect real VoIP phones. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <8u95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
On 2026-06-03 04:10, Rich wrote: > InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected >> to bear. > > Also true. They supply the original battery, but you get to pay to > replace it when it wears out over time. And both wear out over time. > The lead acid from being kept charged, the D cells from self discharge. True lead acid batteries (not gel, ie, not maintenance free) last way longer. 5 years easily, maybe 10. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp18e$3igml$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87397 |
The ultimate solution is of course a house wired for DC power fed to USB style outlets with a big $10,000 battery, in addition to normal mains. You simply feed your LV kit off that and Robert is a relative. Then when renewable energy takes your country's grid down you can still complain to politicians -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as foolish, and by the rulers as useful. (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <97OcnWwzhIQAsoT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87255 |
Argue crap all you want - the providers are generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running and I support that. Note the theme here - "Redundancy". Keep EVERYTHING that worked. Add on new stuff all you want, but ..... Use the Laws. Hire class-action lawyers if needed to kick ass. Oh, and even TELEGRAPH service should be preserved over a few copper lines. Slow, but WORKED and was very robust. First comm network that could use pre-Tube/Transistor amplifiers ... just relays. Edison figured out how to record the traffic even as a youth. On the whole, "new" is MUCH more technically complicated at every level. That complication means MANY more ways for it to FAIL. OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a LONG time. So HOW do you call an ambulance ? Your bank ? You AREN'T ... unless we've maintained some lower-tech REDUNDANCY.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vivi4$1us3j$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87265 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Argue crap all you want - the providers are > generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running > and I support that. And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part is why. > OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off > several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the > 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a > LONG time. Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects to at that switch now in 2026? The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early 70's. It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and bytes around. Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP be exploded? While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)).
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bIScnQGbw7sQjoD3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87318 |
On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >> and I support that. > > And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was > mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part > is why. > >> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >> LONG time. > > Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that > begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to > pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects > to at that switch now in 2026? > > The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical > crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early > 70's. Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! > It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on > the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy > computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and > bytes around. > > Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP > be exploded? > > While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the > diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, > because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local > switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service > now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital > computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL manually connect at least a sub-portion of the copper. Most tech fried ... hey ... telegraphy works :-) Simple relay-based line amps. Worked in 1850 and can work now over remaining POTS lines. Find a neighborhood 'telegraph guy'.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ni40fmxe5o.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87324 |
On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: > On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>> and I support that. >> >> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >> is why. >> >>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>> LONG time. >> >> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >> to at that switch now in 2026? >> >> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >> 70's. > > Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! > >> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >> bytes around. >> >> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >> be exploded? >> >> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). > > Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL > manually connect at least a sub-portion of the > copper. Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. > > Most tech fried ... hey ... telegraphy works :-) > Simple relay-based line amps. Worked in 1850 and > can work now over remaining POTS lines. Find a > neighborhood 'telegraph guy'. > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vkfub$2ci6m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87330 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>> and I support that. >>> >>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>> is why. >>> >>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>> LONG time. >>> >>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>> >>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>> 70's. >> >> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >> >>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>> bytes around. >>> >>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>> be exploded? >>> >>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >> >> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >> copper. > > Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables > to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the > wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" is a non-trivial job for the non-expert.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <9u61fmxgao.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87339 |
On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>>> and I support that. >>>> >>>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>>> is why. >>>> >>>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>>> LONG time. >>>> >>>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>>> >>>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>>> 70's. >>> >>> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >>> >>>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>>> bytes around. >>>> >>>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>>> be exploded? >>>> >>>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >>> >>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >>> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >>> copper. >> >> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables >> to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the >> wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. > > I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of > 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly > not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 > red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" > is a non-trivial job for the non-expert. Heh, absolutely. Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the English name, a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, connecting to 4000 at the other side which go to the actual switch. These are labelled, but you need to know the system. I have not wired these, so here I have to guess, but the phone number is not written here. Rather wire number of the bundle on the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You need a table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, possibly printed and stored in large binders. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo3b2$3b3aj$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87343 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>>>> and I support that. >>>>> >>>>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>>>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>>>> is why. >>>>> >>>>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>>>> LONG time. >>>>> >>>>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>>>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>>>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>>>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>>>> >>>>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>>>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>>>> 70's. >>>> >>>> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >>>> >>>>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>>>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>>>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>>>> bytes around. >>>>> >>>>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>>>> be exploded? >>>>> >>>>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>>>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>>>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>>>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>>>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>>>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >>>> >>>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >>>> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >>>> copper. >>> >>> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables >>> to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the >>> wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. >> >> I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of >> 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly >> not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 >> red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" >> is a non-trivial job for the non-expert. > > Heh, absolutely. > > Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the English name, > a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, connecting to 4000 at > the other side which go to the actual switch. These are labelled, but > you need to know the system. I have not wired these, so here I have to > guess, but the phone number is not written here. Rather wire number of > the bundle on the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You > need a table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, possibly > printed and stored in large binders. Given how many lines terminated in any given central office building, there has to be a labeling system. But it won't be something that anyone can just walk into and begin connecting random lengths of spare copper pairs onto to "reconnect" a small portion of customers to each other. And yes, no dialing. You get connected to your Aunt Edna two blocks over, but you two are the only two who get to talk (unless the "fixer" starts wiring a party line, but then too many on a party line makes for a mess too). Expecting that some lineman's going to be able to go cross connecting folks who want to talk (even if they wanted to all call the local hospital) to the destination to which they want to talk to, by manually wiring them up is rather insane. It's just not feasable to do manually anymore, if the switching computers that usually do it are fried then there's lots of useless copper pairs connecting to dead phones.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <a9qdnfRK25e4W4L3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87400 |
On 6/2/26 22:25, Rich wrote: > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>>>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>>>> Argue crap all you want - the providers are >>>>>>> generally REQUIRED to keep the POTS running >>>>>>> and I support that. >>>>>> >>>>>> And there you are slowly beginning to maybe see why POTS service was >>>>>> mostly "always working". The "providers are generally required" part >>>>>> is why. >>>>>> >>>>>>> OK ... believable ... North Korea sets off >>>>>>> several EMP bombs high over the USA. ALL the >>>>>>> 'complicated' tech immediately DIES for a >>>>>>> LONG time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sadly, I have bad news for you. Your wonderful copper POTS line that >>>>>> begins at the side of your house, and travels however far from pole to >>>>>> pole to reach you local telephone switch, well, guess what it connects >>>>>> to at that switch now in 2026? >>>>>> >>>>>> The old electromechanical step-by-step switches, or electromechanical >>>>>> crossbar switches? Nope. Those were, mostly, long gone by the early >>>>>> 70's. >>>>> >>>>> Saw 'em in action, late 60s. Neat ! >>>>> >>>>>> It connects to...... a modern digitizer that digitizes the signals on >>>>>> the line, and the entire rest of the switch, in 2026, is a fancy >>>>>> computer system (usually running Erlang) that routes digital bits and >>>>>> bytes around. >>>>>> >>>>>> Guess what happens to those digital computer switches should that EMP >>>>>> be exploded? >>>>>> >>>>>> While you /might/ have 48v of power on the line, for a while (until the >>>>>> diesel generators run out of fuel) you won't have any communications, >>>>>> because *everything* after your copper wires terminate at the local >>>>>> switch is, and has been since the early 70's, essentially VOIP service >>>>>> now (not literally VOIP, but digital networking and/or digital >>>>>> computerized circuit switching (i.e. ATM)). >>>>> >>>>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL >>>>> manually connect at least a sub-portion of the >>>>> copper. >>>> >>>> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and rewire the cables >>>> to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, because the batteries are the >>>> wrong voltage. Certainly no dialing. >>> >>> I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those "bundles" of >>> 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 different colors (certianly >>> not 4000 colors). So "working out" which red/black, from the 10,000 >>> red/black pairs that terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" >>> is a non-trivial job for the non-expert. >> >> Heh, absolutely. >> >> Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the English name, >> a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, connecting to 4000 at >> the other side which go to the actual switch. These are labelled, but >> you need to know the system. I have not wired these, so here I have to >> guess, but the phone number is not written here. Rather wire number of >> the bundle on the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You >> need a table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, possibly >> printed and stored in large binders. > > Given how many lines terminated in any given central office building, > there has to be a labeling system. But it won't be something that > anyone can just walk into and begin connecting random lengths of spare > copper pairs onto to "reconnect" a small portion of customers to each > other. And yes, no dialing. You get connected to your Aunt Edna two > blocks over, but you two are the only two who get to talk (unless the > "fixer" starts wiring a party line, but then too many on a party line > makes for a mess too). > > Expecting that some lineman's going to be able to go cross connecting > folks who want to talk (even if they wanted to all call the local > hospital) to the destination to which they want to talk to, by manually > wiring them up is rather insane. It's just not feasable to do manually > anymore, if the switching computers that usually do it are fried then > there's lots of useless copper pairs connecting to dead phones. Hmmmm ... by the 90s+ ... the number of connected customers surely exceeded the number of practical wire pairs almost everywhere. SOME kind of multiplexing scheme would have been absolutely required. NOT fully versed in that alas, a 'transitional' period, the exact what/where/why/how is kinda obscure, hidden behind corporate firewalls. DID work, but EXACTLY how is kinda obscure/proprietary/guessed. Fiber CAN be OK ... and fast ... but it's still a PHYSICAL system and that means Hardware Maint using HUMANS (for now). As mentioned somewhere, I still have a (now obscenely priced) COMCAST vid line. Unlike the phone company it comes in from 'the side'. Note SMALL trees/bushes eventually become BIG trees/bushes. You don't wanna know what the local trimming companies wanted to charge to clear a path for the Comcast wire. Fell around Covid time, they promised to come fix it all somehow, NEVER did. cheepo spice. Some fun Jamacian techs though. A lot is still ON THE GROUND under a lot of tree limbs. The rest, well, bungie cords on tree limbs. Into Covid a neighbor went wild with lawn tools and SHREDDED my spliced wire. After two+ weeks I finally found SOMEONE at Comcast who actually understood when I said the PHYSICAL CABLE was broken. They kept wanting to test my Box. NOT the problem at all. Guess it was Page #2 in their Hindi diagnostic manual. Anyway, when it dies again it's gonna have to be a DISH. DO love "channel surfing" ... price about 2/3rds LESS since they don't have to bother with wires. Dish is NOT good for internet - too much satellite latency. Learned that WAY back, even when web pages were simple. 33,000 miles UP, 33,000 miles DOWN, then all BACK again ... even the speed of light begins to SUCK. (where's "sub-space" comms ??? STILL waiting for my Flying Car and Atomic Batteries in everything too !!!) As for COMCAST ... time to go "semi-wireless". Run the cable down the MAIN lines in the Right Of Way along the real roads. Add a wireless "5G+" transmitter every block (a few more for 'country blocks'). Then you do not have to worry about weird trees/worse down back all the long driveways and dirt roads. You can get to the transmitters easily. MUCH less expense. "Comcast Business" ... well ... then you DO need a physical connection for the 1-10gbit link. However 'biz' tend to be easier to GET at. Did get 'biz' from them eventually for my office. Initially the install price was horrible. However called near Xmas and apparently there was a sign-up drive. Got the long cable across a road for NOTHING :-)
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sna5fmxn6s.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87411 |
On 2026-06-03 08:12, c186282 wrote: > On 6/2/26 22:25, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 19:36, Rich wrote: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 2026-06-01 07:07, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> On 5/31/26 23:50, Rich wrote: >>>>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: ... >>>>>> Well, if the digital stuff fries they can STILL manually >>>>>> connect at least a sub-portion of the copper. >>>>> >>>>> Manually? You need an expert to go in the exchange and >>>>> rewire the cables to connect two phones permanently. Maybe, >>>>> because the batteries are the wrong voltage. Certainly no >>>>> dialing. >>>> >>>> I've not even pointed out to him yet that in most of those >>>> "bundles" of 4000 pairs, that there's only about 8 or 10 >>>> different colors (certianly not 4000 colors). So "working >>>> out" which red/black, from the 10,000 red/black pairs that >>>> terminate at the switch, connect to "joe's pizza" is a non- >>>> trivial job for the non-expert. >>> >>> Heh, absolutely. >>> >>> Although you can find the cable at the... I don't know the >>> English name, a rack of wire wrapping pins. 4000 at one side, >>> connecting to 4000 at the other side which go to the actual >>> switch. These are labelled, but you need to know the system. I >>> have not wired these, so here I have to guess, but the phone >>> number is not written here. Rather wire number of the bundle on >>> the one side, and equipment number on the other side. You need a >>> table to find out which is which, possibly computerized, >>> possibly printed and stored in large binders. >> >> Given how many lines terminated in any given central office >> building, there has to be a labeling system. But it won't be >> something that anyone can just walk into and begin connecting >> random lengths of spare copper pairs onto to "reconnect" a small >> portion of customers to each other. And yes, no dialing. You get >> connected to your Aunt Edna two blocks over, but you two are the >> only two who get to talk (unless the "fixer" starts wiring a party >> line, but then too many on a party line makes for a mess too). >> >> Expecting that some lineman's going to be able to go cross >> connecting folks who want to talk (even if they wanted to all call >> the local hospital) to the destination to which they want to talk >> to, by manually wiring them up is rather insane. It's just not >> feasable to do manually anymore, if the switching computers that >> usually do it are fried then there's lots of useless copper pairs >> connecting to dead phones. > > Hmmmm ... by the 90s+ ... the number of connected customers surely > exceeded the number of practical wire pairs almost everywhere. SOME > kind of multiplexing scheme would have been absolutely required. > > NOT fully versed in that alas, a 'transitional' period, the exact > what/where/why/how is kinda obscure, hidden behind corporate > firewalls. DID work, but EXACTLY how is kinda obscure/proprietary/ > guessed. By the 90's, it was digital exchanges. The working I explained in another post, it is not multiplexing. Simple concept, the difficulty is the scale, and the details. Here by the end of the 90's there remained a few (a hundred?) of electromechanical exchanges, some hybrid. Redoing a big exchange back from digital to electromechanical is a huge task, and requires expert knowledge that no longer exists. It would have to be reinvented. Assuming there is room in the building. ... -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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