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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #29984 > unrolled thread

most common text editors in popular distros?

Started bypedro1492@lycos.com
First post2020-06-09 04:40 -0700
Last post2020-06-21 10:56 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 126 — 26 participants

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  most common text editors in popular distros? pedro1492@lycos.com - 2020-06-09 04:40 -0700
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-09 12:51 +0100
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-06-10 11:22 -0400
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-10 16:37 +0100
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? pH <wb6dwp@gmail.com> - 2020-06-11 19:37 -0700
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-12 11:01 +0000
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-13 14:23 +0200
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-13 15:32 +0000
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-09 14:36 +0200
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2020-06-09 15:26 +0200
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-09 20:57 +0200
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-09 22:23 +0000
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2020-06-09 18:52 -0400
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-10 13:00 -0400
              Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-06-10 18:38 +0000
                Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-10 19:20 +0000
                  Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2020-06-11 09:52 -0600
                    Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2020-06-11 09:59 -0600
                      Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:00 -0400
                        Re: Why? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2020-06-21 10:10 -0600
                          Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-22 06:06 -0400
                    Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-11 22:11 +0200
                  Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 09:59 -0400
                Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2020-06-11 09:45 -0600
                  Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-11 22:16 +0200
                    Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-11 21:08 +0000
                      Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-12 13:49 +0200
                        Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-12 20:49 +0000
                          Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-13 14:19 +0200
                            Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-13 13:13 +0000
                              Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-16 13:02 +0200
                                Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-16 20:42 +0000
                                  Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-16 23:13 +0200
                                    Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-16 21:41 +0000
                                      Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-17 12:05 +0200
                                        Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-17 11:03 +0000
                                          Re: Why? (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-17 14:06 +0200
                        Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:18 -0400
                      Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:10 -0400
                        Re: Why? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-21 20:18 +0200
                Re: Why? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 09:49 -0400
              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-10 19:54 +0000
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 20:44 -0400
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-26 11:32 +0300
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2020-07-16 15:06 +0300
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? John McCue <jmccue@hairball.Belkin> - 2020-06-09 22:55 +0000
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-10 09:13 +0100
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-10 13:11 -0400
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-10 20:53 +0100
              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-10 20:54 +0000
                Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-10 22:36 +0100
                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-10 22:49 +0000
                    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Harold Stevens <wookie@limbo.localdomain> - 2020-06-10 18:07 -0500
                      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-11 01:59 +0100
                    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-11 01:57 +0100
                      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2020-06-11 08:30 +0200
                        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Harold Stevens <wookie@limbo.localdomain> - 2020-06-11 03:37 -0500
                      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? John McCue <jmccue@obsd2.mhome.org> - 2020-06-11 12:25 +0000
                        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-11 22:19 +0200
                          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-12 08:04 +0100
                            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-12 13:50 +0200
                              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-12 15:28 +0100
                                Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-12 17:00 +0000
                                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-12 19:38 +0100
                                    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-12 19:09 +0000
                                      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-12 23:14 +0100
                                        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-13 00:31 +0000
                                    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-13 14:11 +0200
                Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-11 08:17 +0100
                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-11 09:25 +0100
                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-11 17:57 +0000
              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:24 -0400
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? John McCue <jmccue@obsd2.mhome.org> - 2020-06-10 20:55 +0000
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-10 21:39 -0400
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-09 13:42 +0000
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-09 22:31 +0000
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-09 22:56 +0000
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Ralf Fassel <ralfixx@gmx.de> - 2020-06-09 17:36 +0200
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-09 19:38 +0000
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-09 13:46 -0700
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-09 23:51 +0000
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-10 13:19 -0400
              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-10 20:54 +0000
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-09 09:51 -0700
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-09 11:55 -0500
    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com - 2020-06-12 18:54 +0000
      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-12 20:58 +0000
        Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 17:44 -0400
          Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-12 22:31 +0000
            Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 20:50 -0400
              Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-13 11:51 +0000
                Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-13 09:22 -0400
                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-13 13:35 +0000
                  Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-20 07:45 -0400
                    Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 07:57 -0400
                      Re: most common text editors in popular distros? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:52 -0400
        That's why they call it "normal" mode. (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-06-13 13:48 +0000
          Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-13 17:05 +0000
            Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-13 18:52 +0000
              Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-06-16 06:03 -0400
                Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-16 11:31 +0000
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-16 14:12 +0000
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-16 18:10 +0100
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-06-16 17:12 +0000
                      Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:57 -0400
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-16 20:48 +0000
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-07-03 10:46 -0400
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-07-03 20:30 +0000
                Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-17 12:12 +0200
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-17 11:26 +0000
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-17 14:16 +0200
                      Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-17 20:51 +0000
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-07-03 11:01 -0400
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-07-04 00:30 +0300
          Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-13 18:46 +0000
            Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-06-15 10:58 -0400
              Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2020-06-15 17:43 +0000
                Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-15 21:21 +0000
              Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-15 19:04 +0000
                Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2020-06-15 21:05 +0000
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-15 22:03 +0000
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-06-18 12:55 +0200
                Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-06-16 06:11 -0400
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2020-06-16 11:35 +0000
                    Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2020-06-16 13:11 +0100
                  Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-06-21 10:56 -0400

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#30110 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-16 11:31 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrehbd7.qf.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30105
Le 16-06-2020, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> a écrit :
> On 13 Jun 2020 18:52:49 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>> Le 13-06-2020, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> I suspect the second half of your statement is the cause (that
>>> English is not the posters first language).
>>
>> It's in part the reason. I'm sorry for the mistake I can make I try
>> to write correctly. I'll improve but it can take some time.
>
> Stéphane (French, French Canadian?, not that it is important; 

I'm a French from France. The English language is really well less spread
than in Canada.

> hello from Montreal ;-), 

Hello from Paris.

> may be also change the introduction line (underlined) into
> English. I am not an native English speaker myself but use "wrote" in
> English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the newsreader Gnus is smart
> enough to adapt to another languages in non-English newsgroups.

We can speak about it, I wondered about it at the beginning.

First : I won't translate it. If I write "If you've got some time to
waste :", and the English reader clic on it, he won't understand anything
and will be more frustrated than if he doesn't understand the meaning
(and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
is not surprised).

Now, I can put it in the French newsgroups and remove it in the English
ones. The reason I let is to show I'm not an English speaker. So, if
something I write offends someone, he can suspect I didn't mean it but
made a mistake.

That being said, if I'm wrong and it's really more annoying than
helpful, I can remove it. I don't put french in my messages to annoy but
to remind to be indulgent with my mistakes.

And I never write in French inside my messages because if I chose to
access English spoken newsgroup, it's to write in English. As it's not
really inside the message, I thought it would be a good compromise. But
again, if I'm wrong, I can change it.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30113 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2020-06-16 14:12 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<rcak0h$um4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#30110
Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
> is not surprised).

Another small English tip.

The English click (as in "mouse click") has a "k" on the end of the 
word.

The word 'clic' in English has a /very/ different meaning:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clic

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#30114 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2020-06-16 18:10 +0100
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<rcaude$ebs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#30113
On 16/06/2020 15:12, Rich wrote:
> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
>> is not surprised).
> 
> Another small English tip.
> 
> The English click (as in "mouse click") has a "k" on the end of the
> word.
> 
> The word 'clic' in English has a /very/ different meaning:
> 
> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clic
> 
That is the word in *American*

In *English*, we spell and pronounce it as the French do - Clique.


-- 
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's 
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

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#30115 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-06-16 17:12 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<rcauh702kuo@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#30113
On 2020-06-16, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>
>> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
>> is not surprised).
>
> Another small English tip.
>
> The English click (as in "mouse click") has a "k" on the end of the 
> word.
>
> The word 'clic' in English has a /very/ different meaning:
>
> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clic

I've never seen it spelled that way.  In my circles it's spelled "clique".

https://www.etymonline.com/word/clique

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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#30164 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromBud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com>
Date2020-06-21 10:57 -0400
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<wzKHG.70709$eN2.19965@fx47.iad>
In reply to#30115
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2020-06-16, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
>>> is not surprised).
>>
>> Another small English tip.
>>
>> The English click (as in "mouse click") has a "k" on the end of the 
>> word.
>>
>> The word 'clic' in English has a /very/ different meaning:
>>
>> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clic
>
> I've never seen it spelled that way.  In my circles it's spelled "clique".
>
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/clique

That's how I would spell it as well.

Perhaps we're just not chic. :-)

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#30117 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-16 20:48 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnreic10.qh.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30113
Le 16-06-2020, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
> Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
>> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
>> is not surprised).
>
> Another small English tip.
>
> The English click (as in "mouse click") has a "k" on the end of the 
> word.
>
> The word 'clic' in English has a /very/ different meaning:
>
> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clic

Thanks, this one was really done on purpose. Not to mean something else,
but to remove the 'k' to mean this

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30251 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-07-03 10:46 -0400
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<87a70g64i3.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#30110
On 16 Jun 2020 11:31:51 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
> Le 16-06-2020, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> a écrit :
>
>> may be also change the introduction line (underlined) into
>> English. I am not an native English speaker myself but use "wrote" in
>> English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the newsreader Gnus is smart
>> enough to adapt to another languages in non-English newsgroups.
>
> We can speak about it, I wondered about it at the beginning.
>
> First : I won't translate it. If I write "If you've got some time to
> waste :", and the English reader clic on it, he won't understand anything
> and will be more frustrated than if he doesn't understand the meaning
> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
> is not surprised).
>
> Now, I can put it in the French newsgroups and remove it in the English
> ones. The reason I let is to show I'm not an English speaker. So, if
> something I write offends someone, he can suspect I didn't mean it but
> made a mistake.
>
> That being said, if I'm wrong and it's really more annoying than
> helpful, I can remove it. I don't put french in my messages to annoy but
> to remind to be indulgent with my mistakes.
>
> And I never write in French inside my messages because if I chose to
> access English spoken newsgroup, it's to write in English. As it's not
> really inside the message, I thought it would be a good compromise. But
> again, if I'm wrong, I can change it.

Was just a suggestion. My introduction line has also "You wrote" in
German newsgroups I read.

Don't be offended. Let the French introduction line there. Was just a
suggestion to change it to English.
-- 
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

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#30256 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-07-03 20:30 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrfv5aq.oq.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30251
Le 03-07-2020, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> a écrit :
> On 16 Jun 2020 11:31:51 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>> Le 16-06-2020, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> a écrit :
>>
>>> may be also change the introduction line (underlined) into
>>> English. I am not an native English speaker myself but use "wrote" in
>>> English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the newsreader Gnus is smart
>>> enough to adapt to another languages in non-English newsgroups.
>>
>> We can speak about it, I wondered about it at the beginning.
>>
>> First : I won't translate it. If I write "If you've got some time to
>> waste :", and the English reader clic on it, he won't understand anything
>> and will be more frustrated than if he doesn't understand the meaning
>> (and doesn't clic because he feels unconcerned or at least if he clics he
>> is not surprised).
>>
>> Now, I can put it in the French newsgroups and remove it in the English
>> ones. The reason I let is to show I'm not an English speaker. So, if
>> something I write offends someone, he can suspect I didn't mean it but
>> made a mistake.
>>
>> That being said, if I'm wrong and it's really more annoying than
>> helpful, I can remove it. I don't put french in my messages to annoy but
>> to remind to be indulgent with my mistakes.
>>
>> And I never write in French inside my messages because if I chose to
>> access English spoken newsgroup, it's to write in English. As it's not
>> really inside the message, I thought it would be a good compromise. But
>> again, if I'm wrong, I can change it.
>
> Was just a suggestion. My introduction line has also "You wrote" in
> German newsgroups I read.

First I'm sorry, as I answered someone else (I'd say it was Carlos but
I'm not sure) I misunderstood. I thought you where speaking about my
signature and it's only with the introduction line.

As I never really read them. Sometimes, I can search for the name/pseudo
but never really taking care of the surrounding so I didn't realized it
was in French. I did let it by default from the beginning.

> Don't be offended. Let the French introduction line there. Was just a
> suggestion to change it to English.

I wasn't offended and didn't took it badly. I understood it was a
suggestion and took it like that. I would have to dive a little bit to
change it, but I can if it's needed. As you don't feel offended by my
French and as Carlos asked me to let it in French, I will for now. If
others complain I'll change it.

When I see some in Chinese and others in Russian, as it looks nice to me,
I hope others, like Carlos (if I remember well), find it nice to. It's
another reminder (even if not so obvious than my signature) that I'm
French and I can make mistakes.

On the other side, I would hate to put the introduction in English in
French newsgroups. I don't care speaking in English with people who
don't understand French. But I'm using English only when I can't do
anything else. When I deal with Germans, I try German as long as I can
(which is very limited) before switching to English.

In a French newsgroup it would be worse. Some could imagine I want to
show off. Others could imagine I'm unable to use some tolls in my
language. So if I can try to find out a way to put the introduction line
in English, it would be only in the English spoken newsgroups.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30122 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2020-06-17 12:12 +0200
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<3u6prg-nbs.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#30105
On 16/06/2020 12.03, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2020 18:52:49 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>> Le 13-06-2020, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> I suspect the second half of your statement is the cause (that English
>>> is not the posters first language).
>>
>> It's in part the reason. I'm sorry for the mistake I can make I try to write
>> correctly. I'll improve but it can take some time.
> 
> Stéphane (French, French Canadian?, not that it is important; hello from
> Montreal ;-), may be also change the introduction line (underlined) into
> English. I am not an native English speaker myself but use "wrote" in
> English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the newsreader Gnus is smart
> enough to adapt to another languages in non-English newsgroups.
> 

Many news or mail clients are not aware of the post language and offer 
no way to change that line depending on, say, folder or group. For 
example, Thunderbird doesn't. It doesn't change the speller language either.

There could be a standard header in posts saying the language.

Me, I like to see that line in the own language of the poster, not of 
the group. It indicates to me that the person normally speaks some other 
language. It is nice.

In my case, it is in English but I'd like it to be in Spanish.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#30124 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-17 11:26 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrejveg.qm.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30122
Le 17-06-2020, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit :
> On 16/06/2020 12.03, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2020 18:52:49 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 13-06-2020, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> I suspect the second half of your statement is the cause (that
>>>> English is not the posters first language).
>>>
>>> It's in part the reason. I'm sorry for the mistake I can make I try
>>> to write correctly. I'll improve but it can take some time.
>> 
>> Stéphane (French, French Canadian?, not that it is important; hello
>> from Montreal ;-), may be also change the introduction line
>> (underlined) into English. I am not an native English speaker myself
>> but use "wrote" in English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the
>> newsreader Gnus is smart enough to adapt to another languages in
>> non-English newsgroups.

OK, my bad. I didn't understood you spoke about it: I thought you were
speaking of the last lines of my massage. I never look closely at it
and it didn't strike me. Now I understand better why the way you put it
looked weird to me.

Do you know how Gnus can know the language of a newsgroup ?

> Many news or mail clients are not aware of the post language and offer
> no way to change that line depending on, say, folder or group. For
> example, Thunderbird doesn't. It doesn't change the speller language
> either.


In fact, I really don't know how it could know about the newsgroup
language. I would have to set it myself. I'll try to see what can be
done automatically.

> Me, I like to see that line in the own language of the poster, not of 
> the group. It indicates to me that the person normally speaks some other 
> language. It is nice.

It's a little bit why I like to have a few French words around. To remind
people not to feel offended if I make a mistake. I don't put French
inside the messages because it would be rude (except in very particular
cases). But if some feels annoyed by the reminder, I can see how to
change it.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30126 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2020-06-17 14:16 +0200
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<c5eprg-nd.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#30124
On 17/06/2020 13.26, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 17-06-2020, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit :
>> On 16/06/2020 12.03, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On 13 Jun 2020 18:52:49 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Le 13-06-2020, Rich <rich@example.invalid> a écrit :
>>>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>> I suspect the second half of your statement is the cause (that
>>>>> English is not the posters first language).
>>>>
>>>> It's in part the reason. I'm sorry for the mistake I can make I try
>>>> to write correctly. I'll improve but it can take some time.
>>>
>>> Stéphane (French, French Canadian?, not that it is important; hello
>>> from Montreal ;-), may be also change the introduction line
>>> (underlined) into English. I am not an native English speaker myself
>>> but use "wrote" in English speaking newsgroups. Thankfully the
>>> newsreader Gnus is smart enough to adapt to another languages in
>>> non-English newsgroups.
> 
> OK, my bad. I didn't understood you spoke about it: I thought you were
> speaking of the last lines of my massage. I never look closely at it
> and it didn't strike me. Now I understand better why the way you put it
> looked weird to me.
> 
> Do you know how Gnus can know the language of a newsgroup ?

No, I don't, sorry. My knowledge of Emacs is limited.

> 
>> Many news or mail clients are not aware of the post language and offer
>> no way to change that line depending on, say, folder or group. For
>> example, Thunderbird doesn't. It doesn't change the speller language
>> either.
> 
> 
> In fact, I really don't know how it could know about the newsgroup
> language.

By looking at the content and guessing :-)


> I would have to set it myself. I'll try to see what can be
> done automatically.


With some mail clients you might define a template for new posts or 
replies, automatically selecting the template based on criteria such as 
the folder (alpine can do this). A template might as well define the 
language (not saying it does). And then, they could add a message 
header, like:

X_LANG=en_UK


Basically, it is a set of features that programs could have but do not.


> 
>> Me, I like to see that line in the own language of the poster, not of
>> the group. It indicates to me that the person normally speaks some other
>> language. It is nice.
> 
> It's a little bit why I like to have a few French words around. To remind
> people not to feel offended if I make a mistake. I don't put French
> inside the messages because it would be rude (except in very particular
> cases). But if some feels annoyed by the reminder, I can see how to
> change it.


Please, don't change it :-)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#30129 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-17 20:51 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrel0ja.r0.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30126
Le 17-06-2020, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> a écrit :
> On 17/06/2020 13.26, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> 
>> In fact, I really don't know how it could know about the newsgroup
>> language.
>
> By looking at the content and guessing :-)

I could say, if it's proxad.* (my ISP) or fr.* it's in French,
everything else in English. It's not the best but it should work.

>> I would have to set it myself. I'll try to see what can be done
>> automatically.
>
>
> With some mail clients you might define a template for new posts or
> replies, automatically selecting the template based on criteria such
> as the folder (alpine can do this). A template might as well define
> the language (not saying it does). And then, they could add a message
> header, like:
>
> X_LANG=en_UK
>
>
> Basically, it is a set of features that programs could have but do
> not.

In fact, I see two ways of doing it. 

The first is to ask slrn to do it. I have no idea of the difficulty. But
for a beginning I have no idea where the french wording is defined. I
looked at my configuration file and at the system configuration file :
it's commented and in English. The first file loaded by slrn is a script
file.  It's funny because it says "don't edit this file, edit the
configuration file". And the configuration file is in English. But the
logs are in English before and in French after. So, there must be
something interesting in this file.

The second is to put a tag in my local configuration file to override
the wording, and to ask vim to put the right wording depending on the
forum. It shouldn't be very difficult.

I prefer the first way because I like to understand what happens on my
computer and it looks better at first glance.

>>> Me, I like to see that line in the own language of the poster, not
>>> of the group. It indicates to me that the person normally speaks
>>> some other language. It is nice.
>> 
>> It's a little bit why I like to have a few French words around. To
>> remind people not to feel offended if I make a mistake. I don't put
>> French inside the messages because it would be rude (except in very
>> particular cases). But if some feels annoyed by the reminder, I can
>> see how to change it.
>
> Please, don't change it :-)

I understood the first time, thanks for your concern. As I like being in
charge and understanding, at least I want to know what I can do if
needed. As I don't want to be rude, if others are complaining I will
change it.

But not yet, for know I will let it like that because it's not so easy
to dive into it before being able to change it. 

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30252 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-07-03 11:01 -0400
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<877dvk63sw.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#30122
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:12:51 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> Many news or mail clients are not aware of the post language and offer
> no way to change that line depending on, say, folder or group. For
> example, Thunderbird doesn't. It doesn't change the speller language
> either.

Didn't figure it out. But I have some LISP snipped in my .gnus which
detects if I write in a German than English Newsgroup and it sets up the
spell checking accordingly.

Might work for the introductory line too. But I just have it in English,
no matter if I post in an English or German group. Readers in German
groups don't mind. But may be people in English groups would mind if it
has "$AUTHOR schrieb am $DATE:". So I leave it in English.
-- 
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

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#30257 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromAnssi Saari <as@sci.fi>
Date2020-07-04 00:30 +0300
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<sm0k0zk2smn.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi>
In reply to#30252
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> Might work for the introductory line too. But I just have it in English,
> no matter if I post in an English or German group. Readers in German
> groups don't mind. But may be people in English groups would mind if it
> has "$AUTHOR schrieb am $DATE:". So I leave it in English.

I didn't find a complete solution for Gnus with a quick search. However,
the variable that controls the attribution line is
message-citation-line-format which could be easily set via group
parameters. Alternatively, you can define your own function and point
message-citation-line-function to it.

However, you'd want the date and time formatted in German for the German
attribution and I don't know how to do that in Emacs.

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#30078 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode. (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?)

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-13 18:46 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode. (Was: most common text editors in popular distros?)
Message-ID<slrnrea7o0.qj.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30074
Le 13-06-2020, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> a écrit :
> In article <slrnre7r38.qi.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>, Stéphane
> CARPENTIER  <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: ...
>>In vim it's used for stopping what you are doing and go back in normal
>>mode whatever happens before.
>
> The above sentence is weirdly phrased - odd word choices - but it is
> hard to tell how much of it is intentional (pushing an agenda) and how
> much of it is merely evidence that English is not the poster's first
> language.

Let's say a little bit of both. I'm here to improve my English level
(not only I try to have real exchanges to but it's important). So if you
see I repeat some mistakes don't hesitate to tell me, I won't take
offence and I'll try to improve.

> I would have put it like this:
>
>     In vim, it's used for ending "insert" mode and returning to
>     "normal" mode.

Not only. There is more than one mode in vim. When you type [ESC] you go
back from any mode which is a little bit more broader than what you
wrote but there was more meaning in what I was writing. 

Let's take an example, it's be easier. When you are in normal mode, you 
want to delete a line. So you press the first [d], and suddenly you
realise you are not on the right line. So, instead of pressing the
second [d], you press [ESC], you go on the right line, and then you
press [d][d].

So, you never quit the normal mode, but the [ESC] key was there to
cancel what you where doing. There is a lot of reason to do it, your
finger press the wrong key, you change your mind, you are interrupted,
you want to be sure no key has been pressed before doing something. It's
thoughtless. To end everything before starting something else.

And when I'm in tools with some keybindings which begin by [ESC], it's
very disturbing when pressing a key I get an error because I pressed [ESC]
before without realising it.

> Two (related) notes on this subject:
>
>     1) Some people (people who don't really understand the "wah" of
> 	vi/vim), 

I understand it, it's disturbing at first.

> 	do think of it "the other way" - that is, that the normal resting
> 	mode of an(y) editor is, of course, the one in which you can enter
> 	text - the mode in which if I type, say, an X, an X appears in my
> 	text buffer.  They think that, well, of course, in vi/vim, you type
> 	Escape as the prefix/leader to entering an editing command, and
> 	then, of course, go back to regular typing mode after that.

I'd say that when they learn vim, they learn it with a blank file. And
the most time you spend at the beginning is in writing your text so in
insert mode, not in normal mode. Once it's written, you start improving
it, so you spend more time in normal mode than in insert mode. But only
if you are using vim's functionalities and not the normal mode with the
arrows to move.

> 	So, when a newbie asks how to get to the bottom of their text in
> 	vi/vim, these people answer with: <Esc>Gi

OK, I understand. In fact, even needed it, it wouldn't bother me.
Because if I had press [ESC] without thought before, it wouldn't change
the result.

>     2) These same people take umbrage at referring to the "command 
> 	mode" as "normal mode" - since it seems so abnormal to them.  They
> 	do not realize that it really is normal, because that's how the vim
> 	documentation refers to it.  It is not an agenda-push to refer to it
> 	as such.

I didn't wrote the documentation, so it's only a feeling. But for me
it's to push new users to change the way they see the text. As in every
other editor there is no mode, there is no normal mode. And they have to
write everything in "insert mode" and use the arrows to move trough the
text. They say that the new user must avoid the arrows to move fast in
the text. I agree. 

They say that it's because the arrows are farther than [h], [j], [k] and
[l] from the center of the keyboard. I disagree with it. For me, the
reason why it's faster it's because once you stop to use the arrows, you
don't use the slow motion keys. Instead, you use faster motion keys.

And once you start using faster motion keys you keep learning tricks
which help you. And then you began to understand the power of vim. But,
to be able to embrace the power of vim is to go first in normal mode.
And I've got the impression it's to hammer that in the beginners they
called it normal mode.

But first, to be able to get the full power of vim, you need to have a
file. And usually, it begins with an empty file you have to write in
insert mode. Even if in insert mode you have good things to.

For long time I had to use vim and I was always in insert mode with the
arrows. And it took me a while to switch. Now, I'm really fond of vim,
but I really understand the old habit are difficult to loose.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30084 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-06-15 10:58 -0400
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<87y2oobckd.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#30078
On 13 Jun 2020 18:46:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
> Le 13-06-2020, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> a écrit :
>> In article <slrnre7r38.qi.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>, Stéphane
>> CARPENTIER  <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote: ...
>>>In vim it's used for stopping what you are doing and go back in normal
>>>mode whatever happens before.
>>
>> The above sentence is weirdly phrased - odd word choices - but it is
>> hard to tell how much of it is intentional (pushing an agenda) and how
>> much of it is merely evidence that English is not the poster's first
>> language.
>
> Let's say a little bit of both. I'm here to improve my English level
> (not only I try to have real exchanges to but it's important). So if you
> see I repeat some mistakes don't hesitate to tell me, I won't take
> offence and I'll try to improve.

Me too. :-)

>> I would have put it like this:
>>
>>     In vim, it's used for ending "insert" mode and returning to
>>     "normal" mode.
>
> Not only. There is more than one mode in vim. When you type [ESC] you go
> back from any mode which is a little bit more broader than what you
> wrote but there was more meaning in what I was writing. 

No, when you are in the "command mode" ESC will do nothing.

> Let's take an example, it's be easier. When you are in normal mode, you 
> want to delete a line. So you press the first [d], and suddenly you
> realise you are not on the right line. So, instead of pressing the
> second [d], you press [ESC], you go on the right line, and then you
> press [d][d].
>
> So, you never quit the normal mode, but the [ESC] key was there to
> cancel what you where doing. There is a lot of reason to do it, your
> finger press the wrong key, you change your mind, you are interrupted,
> you want to be sure no key has been pressed before doing something. It's
> thoughtless. To end everything before starting something else.
>
> And when I'm in tools with some keybindings which begin by [ESC], it's
> very disturbing when pressing a key I get an error because I pressed [ESC]
> before without realising it.

May be the different modes of vi(m) should be brushed up. What is the
mode you start vi(m) with? Then you got INSERT. Another is to run
commands (or is that the same mode you started vi(m) with already?). Like

%s/pattern/replace_pattern/

Am very sorry I write this with Emacs in the Gnus newsreader. ;-)
-- 
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

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#30086 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromEli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
Date2020-06-15 17:43 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<eli$2006151343@qaz.wtf>
In reply to#30084
In comp.os.linux.misc, Andreas Kohlbach  <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2020 18:46:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> Not only. There is more than one mode in vim. When you type [ESC] you go
>> back from any mode which is a little bit more broader than what you
>> wrote but there was more meaning in what I was writing. 

In strict vi terms there are three modes: visual, ex, and open. And open
is hardly ever used (and not implemented in vim).  "visual" mode is what
you get when you use the "vi" command (from command line or from : ex
prompt). "ex" mode is what you get when you use the "ex" command from
the command line or "Q" in visual mode. Open mode is what you get when
you try to use visual mode on a terminal without enough features, eg a
hardcopy terminal. You can have a single command version of ex mode,
too. It starts with a ":".

The word "mode" is overloaded by the "showmode" setting, but in reality
"insert mode" is just a command with a very long following parameter.
Similarly "replace mode" (or vim's "visual mode" reached with
<control-V>).

> No, when you are in the "command mode" ESC will do nothing.

It ends the current in-progress command. For incompletely entered commands
it aborts the entry. That's why "7<ESC>j" and "7j" do different things.

>> Let's take an example, it's be easier. When you are in normal mode, you 
>> want to delete a line. So you press the first [d], and suddenly you
>> realise you are not on the right line. So, instead of pressing the
>> second [d], you press [ESC], you go on the right line, and then you
>> press [d][d].

This exactly.

>> So, you never quit the normal mode, but the [ESC] key was there to
>> cancel what you where doing. There is a lot of reason to do it, your
>> finger press the wrong key, you change your mind, you are interrupted,
>> you want to be sure no key has been pressed before doing something. It's
>> thoughtless. To end everything before starting something else.

Some (at least me) long time users of vi, tend to use <ESC> before
entering commands if there has been any break at all in editing. If I
get up to get coffee, when I come back I'm likely to hit escape to make
sure I know the state: "To end everything before starting something
else" is a good way to put it.

> May be the different modes of vi(m) should be brushed up. What is the
> mode you start vi(m) with? Then you got INSERT. Another is to run
> commands (or is that the same mode you started vi(m) with already?). Like

Things on the : line are in ex mode, which you can switch to for single
command at a time with ":". Even multiline input ex mode commands work
that way. I've been known to use ":[LINE-RANGE]c" to change stuff. That
command ends with a "." on a single line.

Elijah
------
hitting <ESC> by reflex in other programs can cause issues

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#30089 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-15 21:21 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrefpi1.qi.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30086
Le 15-06-2020, Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> a écrit :
> In comp.os.linux.misc, Andreas Kohlbach  <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2020 18:46:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> Not only. There is more than one mode in vim. When you type [ESC]
>>> you go back from any mode which is a little bit more broader than
>>> what you wrote but there was more meaning in what I was writing. 
>
> In strict vi terms there are three modes: visual, ex, and open. And
> open

I don't use vi, I'm using vim and I don't know if I ever used vi. So, I
know, there is differences, but I don't really know which ones, I always
say I'm using vim. So I never talk about strict vi, I'm not competent to
do so.

> is hardly ever used (and not implemented in vim).  "visual" mode is what
> you get when you use the "vi" command (from command line or from : ex
> prompt). "ex" mode is what you get when you use the "ex" command from
> the command line or "Q" in visual mode. Open mode is what you get when
> you try to use visual mode on a terminal without enough features, eg a
> hardcopy terminal. You can have a single command version of ex mode,
> too. It starts with a ":".

I agree, that's the reason I say I don't really know how many mode vim
possessed. Nevertheless, there are two things that makes me use the word
mode, even if it's not exact, at least everybody understand it.

The first is, there are different properties. For example even if visual
is considered one mode, it's not always exactly the same between a block
and a line. For exemple, if you want to insert a character, like a
comment, at the beginning of consecutive lines, you need to be in visual
block. I mean out of the box in visual mode, not in using a plugin or in
writing a macro. So it makes sense to consider visual mode not only as
one mode but as three modes.

The second is the one you wrote just after :

> The word "mode" is overloaded by the "showmode" setting, 

In the configuration file, there are many modes. So, if strictly speaking
it's not always right, sometimes it's convenient.

>>> Let's take an example, it's be easier. When you are in normal mode,
>>> you want to delete a line. So you press the first [d], and suddenly
>>> you realise you are not on the right line. So, instead of pressing
>>> the second [d], you press [ESC], you go on the right line, and then
>>> you press [d][d].
>
> This exactly.

Now you answered it, I realise "it'll be easier" would have been better
than "it's be easier". With time I should avoid those mistakes.

>>> So, you never quit the normal mode, but the [ESC] key was there to
>>> cancel what you where doing. There is a lot of reason to do it, your
>>> finger press the wrong key, you change your mind, you are
>>> interrupted, you want to be sure no key has been pressed before
>>> doing something. It's thoughtless. To end everything before starting
>>> something else.
>
> Some (at least me) long time users of vi, tend to use <ESC> before
> entering commands if there has been any break at all in editing. If I
> get up to get coffee, when I come back I'm likely to hit escape 

I do the same without realising it. So when I get "Error: unknown
command [ESC][whatever]", I'm very annoyed.

> to make sure I know the state: "To end everything before starting
> something else" is a good way to put it.

Great. At least I have one correct sentence.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30087 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2020-06-15 19:04 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<slrnrefhha.qi.sc@scarpet42p.localdomain>
In reply to#30084
Le 15-06-2020, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> a écrit :
> On 13 Jun 2020 18:46:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>
>> Not only. There is more than one mode in vim. When you type [ESC] you go
>> back from any mode which is a little bit more broader than what you
>> wrote but there was more meaning in what I was writing. 
>
> No, when you are in the "command mode" ESC will do nothing.

OK, so I was so surprised, I just tested it. And as I do it so thoughtfully
I never realised it. You are almost right : I have to press it twice to
get in normal mode. So if the first [ESC] didn't allow me to get back in
normal mode. It isn't exactly nothing because it allows me to go back in
normal mode in pressing [ESC] a second time. I tried two or three things
and it looks like it acting like a <leader> in normal mode.

I guess, now I understand why I so often press [ESC] multiple times. I
never new why. I'd say as it can't be wrong to [ESC] twice and it can
help, I do it systematically.

Thanks for the clue.

> May be the different modes of vi(m) should be brushed up. 

Maybe. I don't know how many modes there is because there is way to
consider some modes as identical or not. So I really don't care. The
important points are : to be able to use what I want and to know what
the others are meaning with the name they use.

> What is the mode you start vi(m) with? Then you got INSERT. Another is
> to run commands (or is that the same mode you started vi(m) with
> already?). Like

I'm always starting in normal mode because it allows me to do what I
want easily. If I want to write, I have to move the cursor to the wright
place first. So in normal mode I can chose directly another word.

> Am very sorry I write this with Emacs in the Gnus newsreader. ;-)

I said I prefer to have many tools, each one well designed. I never said
everybody must prefer to have many tools. It's only a matter of taste and
nobody is wrong to do as he want. I understand you can prefer one big
tool able to handles everything.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#30088 — Re: That's why they call it "normal" mode.

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2020-06-15 21:05 +0000
SubjectRe: That's why they call it "normal" mode.
Message-ID<rc8nr2$toh$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#30087
Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
> I'm always starting in normal mode because it allows me to do what I
> want easily. If I want to write, I have to move the cursor to the wright
> place first. So in normal mode I can chose directly another word.

Small tip.  You meant "right" not "wright" above, as I very much doubt 
you meant an actual "wright":

    Definition of wright

     (Entry 1 of 5)
    : a worker skilled in the manufacture especially of wooden objects 
    -- usually used in combination
    // shipwright
    // wheelwright

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