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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #56635 > unrolled thread

NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder

Started bySugarBug <3883@sugar.bug>
First post2024-07-03 17:05 -0500
Last post2024-07-04 09:12 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 73 — 15 participants

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  NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder SugarBug <3883@sugar.bug> - 2024-07-03 17:05 -0500
    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> - 2024-07-03 19:58 -0400
      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-04 12:06 +0200
        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-04 11:15 +0100
        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:41 +0000
          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-04 12:01 +0100
            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-05 02:10 +0000
              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-05 09:54 +0100
                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 12:29 +0200
                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-05 12:08 +0100
                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 19:15 +0200
                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-05 18:40 +0100
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 03:19 +0000
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:42 +0200
                            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-07 00:55 +0000
                              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 11:19 +0100
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 21:12 +0200
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-07 21:32 +0000
                                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 11:52 +0200
                              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:51 +0200
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 12:33 +0100
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 21:23 +0200
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-07-06 17:57 +0000
                            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-07 00:48 +0000
                              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 11:11 +0100
                            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 11:10 +0100
                              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-07 10:15 +0000
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 12:26 +0100
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:31 +0200
                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-07-05 20:28 +0000
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-07-06 11:00 +1000
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:34 +0200
                            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-07-07 09:33 +1000
                              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 11:18 +0100
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-07-07 17:23 +0000
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-07-07 18:13 +0000
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-07-07 20:04 +0100
                                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 11:50 +0200
                                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-07-08 18:04 +0100
                                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 22:17 +0200
                                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-09 09:34 +0100
                                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-09 12:21 +0200
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-08 08:43 +0100
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 21:11 +0200
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-09 09:38 +0100
                                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-07-09 20:47 +0200
                                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-09 20:31 +0100
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-06 11:29 +0100
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-07-06 17:57 +0000
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:33 +0200
                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-05 13:03 +0000
                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-05 15:05 +0100
                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 19:19 +0200
                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 03:15 +0000
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:39 +0200
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-07 00:57 +0000
                            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:53 +0200
                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-05 12:49 +0000
                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-05 14:59 +0100
                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-06 05:30 +0000
                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-06 11:32 +0100
          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-04 23:29 +0200
            Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-05 02:15 +0000
              Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 12:26 +0200
                Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-06 03:42 +0000
                  Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:50 +0200
                    Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-07-07 09:28 +0000
                      Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-07 11:33 +0100
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-07-07 17:23 +0000
                          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-07-07 17:38 +0000
                        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 21:19 +0200
        Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-04 10:11 -0400
          Re: NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-04 09:12 -0700

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#56635 — NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder

FromSugarBug <3883@sugar.bug>
Date2024-07-03 17:05 -0500
SubjectNixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors, forces abdication of founder
Message-ID<v64hv6$2vkok$1@paganini.bofh.team>
NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
forces abdication of founder

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314

I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc

Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.

-- 
  www.sybershock.com | sci.crypt | alt.sources.crypto | alt.lite.bulb

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#56637

FromRabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og>
Date2024-07-03 19:58 -0400
Message-ID<6BlhO.3136$vdRc.1100@fx09.iad>
In reply to#56635
On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
> forces abdication of founder
> 
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
> 
> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
> 
> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.

Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.

-- 
@RabidPedagog

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#56643

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-04 12:06 +0200
Message-ID<40dc3717-9748-fb74-562d-96e7fb7071a2@example.net>
In reply to#56637

On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:

> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>> forces abdication of founder
>> 
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>> 
>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>> 
>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>
> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.

Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free 
speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and 
communists who contribute.

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#56644

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-04 11:15 +0100
Message-ID<v65so7$2najh$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56643
On 04/07/2024 11:06, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
> 
>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>> forces abdication of founder
>>>
>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>>
>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>>
>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>
>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
> 
> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free 
> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis 
> and communists who contribute.

Oh its all fashion. All this in yer face LBGT trans crap has simply made 
people dislike them, not for what they are, but for  being boring, 
obtrusive, attention seeking and
essentially using Marxist techniques to promote their pointless metaphysics.

Which by circular argument confirms their alleged  feelings of 'being 
oppressed'.

Its the same technique as Hamas, kill people and then scream 'victim' 
when someone responds appropriately.

-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#56645

FromBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Date2024-07-04 10:41 +0000
Message-ID<slrnv8cv2b.2m8.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
In reply to#56643
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
On 2024-07-04, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jul 2024, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-03 6:05 p.m., SugarBug wrote:
>>> NixOS commits a "purge" of "Nazi" contributors,
>>> forces abdication of founder
>>> 
>>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40870314
>>> 
>>> I found a youtube version of this article being read by a gray-bearded
>>> tech nerd with a Hawaiian shirt: https://youtu.be/KsDYul3J3Dc
>>> 
>>> Maybe I should pop a pineapple pizza in the oven and watch the drama.
>>
>> Darn, I thought I was the first to post this.
>
> Are there any non-political distributions to switch to? Since I'm a free 
> speech extremist I'm against all projects that ban conservative, nazis and 
> communists who contribute.

Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".  What
distribution are you using at the moment?


I'm using Debian, and I haven't seen anything overtly political, but
then, I haven't looked into it that deep.

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#56646

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-04 12:01 +0100
Message-ID<v65vdd$2najh$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56645
On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".

The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if 
its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think 
they are smarter than they actually are.
They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from 
first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous 
quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the 
justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be 
true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.

Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they 
are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.

Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted 
bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common 
sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are 
never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they 
believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor 
has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must 
be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the 
herd.

The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.

Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in 
all this woke shit.

-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#56656

FromBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Date2024-07-05 02:10 +0000
Message-ID<slrnv8elfo.a1b.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
In reply to#56646
On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>
> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if 
> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think 
> they are smarter than they actually are.
> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from 
> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous 
> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the 
> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be 
> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>
> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they 
> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>
> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted 
> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common 
> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are 
> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they 
> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor 
> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must 
> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the 
> herd.
>
> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>
> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in 
> all this woke shit.
>

Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
better than us.  This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
educated elite, and we know better".  So naturally, an ideology which
puts them in power, is appealing.  We've run the experiment, put
intellectuals in power, and it didn't work.  I don't really have a
problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
society should work.  Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
what values are good for society.

I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.

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#56660

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-05 09:54 +0100
Message-ID<v68cbd$37h92$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56656
On 05/07/2024 03:10, Borax Man wrote:
> On 2024-07-04, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/07/2024 11:41, Borax Man wrote:
>>> Most people in "tech" seem to be insufferable progressives.
>>> Unfortunately people now seem to think that everything they touch, and
>>> everything they get involved in, needs to be "activist".
>>
>> The fact is that Marxism - and this is another example of it, even if
>> its protagonists dont realise it - is attractive to people who think
>> they are smarter than they actually are.
>> They are not super bright and cannot work things out for themselves from
>> first principles but they are absolutely capable of absorbing enormous
>> quantities of received wisdom, which they regurgitate using the
>> justification that Greater Minds have said it, therefore it must be
>> true. This is the "Argumentum Ad Auctoritatem" fallacy.
>>
>> Because they have more 'facts' stuffed in their heads, they feel they
>> are actually better qualified to run things than plebs.
>>
>> Unfortunately they are vulnerable to any kind of carefully crafted
>> bullshit that comes along, because having decreed that ordinary common
>> sense is what plebs have, and the Truth is what they have, they are
>> never minded to actually attempt to understand the reality of what they
>> believe in. And fearful of being the first to declare that the Emperor
>> has no clothes, they use their Bandar Logic (We all say it, so it must
>> be true) to follow the herd of the minor intelligentsia, and follow the
>> herd.
>>
>> The problem with following the herd, is that all you see is arseholes.
>>
>> Too much education for not very high quality brains leads to a belief in
>> all this woke shit.
>>
> 
> Marxism says that intellectuals should rule and make decisions, so it
> appeals to those who perceive themselves to be intellectuals, who know
> better than us.  This seems to underlie the thinking, "we are the
> educated elite, and we know better".  So naturally, an ideology which
> puts them in power, is appealing.  We've run the experiment, put
> intellectuals in power, and it didn't work.  I don't really have a
> problem with people being educated, after all, I am as well, but I do
> with the hubris that education makes one better placed to decide how
> society should work.  Your degree in Software Engineering does NOT put
> you in a better position to comment on social issues and politics and
> what values are good for society.
1. My degree is not in software engineering
2. My contempt is not for true intellectuals, but for the vast majority 
of pseudo intellectuals who are as you describe above.
3. I have far more time for the ordinary bloke on the shop floor who has 
learnt by direct experience.

> 
> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.

The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with 
their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'

-- 
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

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#56662

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-05 12:29 +0200
Message-ID<0567e036-6ad8-92a2-d28c-1cbfe214d908@example.net>
In reply to#56660

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>
> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with their 
> Art degrees and their moral 'issues'

This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.

It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
winners of the current system.

However... and here is where it gets interesting!

I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56663

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-05 12:08 +0100
Message-ID<v68k7n$38pvc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56662
On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>
>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists 
>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
> 
> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
> 
> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
> winners of the current system.
> 
> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
> 
> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.

A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving 
socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and said 
that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory squirearchy.

And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.

I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that 
Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it 
identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
It was the thought, that counted.

Virtue signalling, not practical politics.

Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that cannot 
be implemented or won't work if they are.

And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have 
been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.

-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56669

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-05 19:15 +0200
Message-ID<0ee63ea0-0a70-6e06-a9ac-7897b0763eb1@example.net>
In reply to#56663

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>> 
>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists with 
>>> their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>> 
>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>> 
>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>> winners of the current system.
>> 
>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>> 
>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>
> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving 
> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and said that 
> 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory squirearchy.
>
> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>
> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that Labour 
> never has and never will solve a single social problem it identifies as 
> 'crucial' meant nothing to him
> It was the thought, that counted.
>
> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>
> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that cannot be 
> implemented or won't work if they are.
>
> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they have been 
> given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.

This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never 
worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it has 
been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on believing it.

The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on 
earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that 
this time it will be different, which of course it never is.

But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56671

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-05 18:40 +0100
Message-ID<v69b6e$3chtf$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56669
On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>
>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists 
>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>
>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>
>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>> winners of the current system.
>>>
>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>
>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>
>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving 
>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and 
>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory 
>> squirearchy.
>>
>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>
>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that 
>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it 
>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>
>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>
>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that 
>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>
>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they 
>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
> 
> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never 
> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it 
> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on 
> believing it.
> 
> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on 
> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that 
> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
> 
> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the 
gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees 
them right'.
Except  somehow it never does...

-- 
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a 
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, 
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer 
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to 
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56676

FromBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Date2024-07-06 03:19 +0000
Message-ID<slrnv8hdt9.coo.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
In reply to#56671
On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists 
>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>
>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>
>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>
>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>
>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>
>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving 
>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and 
>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory 
>>> squirearchy.
>>>
>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>
>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that 
>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it 
>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>
>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>
>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that 
>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>
>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they 
>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>> 
>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never 
>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it 
>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on 
>> believing it.
>> 
>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on 
>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that 
>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>> 
>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the 
> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees 
> them right'.
> Except  somehow it never does...
>

If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital.  Many
people have little to no Capital... soo...

I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism.  They'll never own
a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?

By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
miserably too.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56689

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-06 12:42 +0200
Message-ID<5734987a-f113-a0d6-a89e-a33a4fb60b2c@example.net>
In reply to#56676

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

> On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>>
>>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>>
>>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>>
>>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>>>> squirearchy.
>>>>
>>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>>
>>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>>
>>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>>
>>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>>
>>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>>
>>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
>>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
>>> believing it.
>>>
>>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>>
>>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
>> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
>> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
>> them right'.
>> Except  somehow it never does...
>>
>
> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital.  Many
> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>
> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism.  They'll never own
> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>
> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
> miserably too.
>

The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn 
capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat 
shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds 
financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took 
over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the 
backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few 
generations.

More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the 
capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.

As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack 
life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give 
them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to 
work.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56707

FromBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Date2024-07-07 00:55 +0000
Message-ID<slrnv8jpr5.4uu.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
In reply to#56689
On 2024-07-06, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
>   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> --8323328-1362738420-1720262525=:17764
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
>
>
>
> On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:
>
>> On 2024-07-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 05/07/2024 18:15, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/07/2024 11:29, D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see this quite often in my line of work, this condescension towards
>>>>>>>> the uneducated, that people only vote a particular way because of
>>>>>>>> ignorance of fear.  Worse, is that this mentality is now promoted and
>>>>>>>> coddled, workplaces now champion themselves as promoters of a "social
>>>>>>>> good", which gives those who work there an even bigger head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only people who vote for delusion are the champagne socialists
>>>>>>> with their Art degrees and their moral 'issues'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the truth! Most extreme tech-socialists I've met live in houses,
>>>>>> have at least 2 cars, and are generally very well off. Often they do
>>>>>> have big public sector customers who help them fund their life styles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is also completely impossible to discuss why their politics is
>>>>>> irrational and damaging to society at large, because they are such huge
>>>>>> winners of the current system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However... and here is where it gets interesting!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know one socialist from a working class background, and he is the only
>>>>>> socialist I know who it is actually possible to discuss politics with!
>>>>>> Needless to say, we've ended up in the agree to disagree box quite
>>>>>> often, but from time to time we actually do agree on something.
>>>>>
>>>>> A late friend was a rampant sort of lower middle class Scottish raving
>>>>> socialist of the red union sort. He became a local councillor, and
>>>>> said that 'the only people who ever got things done were the Tory
>>>>> squirearchy.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet he was overjoyed when Blair got in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally realised that what appealed was the ideology. The fact that
>>>>> Labour never has and never will solve a single social problem it
>>>>> identifies as 'crucial' meant nothing to him
>>>>> It was the thought, that counted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Virtue signalling, not practical politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Socialists are the ultimate cat-bellers.  Full of solutions that
>>>>> cannot be implemented or won't work if they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> And sadly that became the game of the Tories too, which is why they
>>>>> have been given the finger. All mouth and no trousers.
>>>>
>>>> This is true. Socialism has been refuted historically (it has never
>>>> worked), logically (it is self-contradictory)  and scientifically (it
>>>> has been proven by economists not to work). Yet, the masses insist on
>>>> believing it.
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that it is a religion where the leaders promise heaven on
>>>> earth, here and now, and workers who don't like their lives, hope that
>>>> this time it will be different, which of course it never is.
>>>>
>>>> But who knows? Maybe humanity will learn one day?
>>> Socialism is essentially paternalistic slavery. Everyone works for the
>>> gummint, and the gummint tells them what to think do and say and 'sees
>>> them right'.
>>> Except  somehow it never does...
>>>
>>
>> If you want people to support Capitalism, they must have Capital.  Many
>> people have little to no Capital... soo...
>>
>> I can't blame young people for turning to Socialism.  They'll never own
>> a house, never have any wealth, why should they care?
>>
>> By the way, I struggle to see our system working, it is failing
>> miserably too.
>>
>
> The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn 
> capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat 
> shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds 
> financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took 
> over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the 
> backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few 
> generations.
>
> More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the 
> capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.
>
> As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack 
> life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give 
> them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to 
> work.
> --8323328-1362738420-1720262525=:17764--


Well, the thing is we HAVE Capitalism and Free Markets and Capital is
being accumulated by the few.  Now if you are going to use that "this is
not true Free Markets", then sorry, then you sound like all the
Communists who say that Russia and China and North Korea are "not true
Communism".  If your ideology can only ever work in an utterly pure
form, its faulty, because that pure form will never be realised in
practice.

I've spend enough time believing in, buying, reading these arguments,
they don't work, IN PRACTICE.  There is something to be said by letting
entrepreneurs be entrepreneurs, and there is something to be said by
letting creative people be creative, yes, but the current system is
based on Capital, not creativity and inventiveness.  You earn more money
monopolising houses than actually working.

I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
everything right.  Screw that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56736

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-07-07 11:19 +0100
Message-ID<v6dq3j$9l29$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56707
On 07/07/2024 01:55, Borax Man wrote:
> I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
> watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
> everything right.  Screw that.

I was like that till I ended up running my own businesses.

There is only one person worth working hard for, and that is yourself


-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56767

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-07 21:12 +0200
Message-ID<29f375c9-5cbc-ccec-936b-cace642f038b@example.net>
In reply to#56736

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 07/07/2024 01:55, Borax Man wrote:
>> I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
>> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
>> watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
>> everything right.  Screw that.
>
> I was like that till I ended up running my own businesses.
>
> There is only one person worth working hard for, and that is yourself

This is the truth! I encourage everyone competent I know to at least try 
to start their own business. If you succeed, it is well worth the effort.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56773

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-07-07 21:32 +0000
Message-ID<lf0fqlFsgocU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#56767
On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 21:12:31 +0200, D wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 07/07/2024 01:55, Borax Man wrote:
>>> I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
>>> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
>>> watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
>>> everything right.  Screw that.
>>
>> I was like that till I ended up running my own businesses.
>>
>> There is only one person worth working hard for, and that is yourself
> 
> This is the truth! I encourage everyone competent I know to at least try
> to start their own business. If you succeed, it is well worth the
> effort.

I did but I didn't have much interest in the 'business' part. Between the 
bookkeeping and having to go out and sell myself to find new contracts it 
got old. I did okay with several core clients but I decided to 'retire'. 
That was fun for a while. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56782

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-08 11:52 +0200
Message-ID<993bd7e9-7563-2492-2da8-1e08ee210bc8@example.net>
In reply to#56773

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 21:12:31 +0200, D wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/07/2024 01:55, Borax Man wrote:
>>>> I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
>>>> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
>>>> watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
>>>> everything right.  Screw that.
>>>
>>> I was like that till I ended up running my own businesses.
>>>
>>> There is only one person worth working hard for, and that is yourself
>>
>> This is the truth! I encourage everyone competent I know to at least try
>> to start their own business. If you succeed, it is well worth the
>> effort.
>
> I did but I didn't have much interest in the 'business' part. Between the
> bookkeeping and having to go out and sell myself to find new contracts it
> got old. I did okay with several core clients but I decided to 'retire'.
> That was fun for a while.
>

Well, you tried, and for me, that's the important thing. I'm sure you also 
learned some valuable skills. =)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56742

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-07-07 12:51 +0200
Message-ID<1245d7da-51d1-cf8a-e0da-afe1cf7e6c25@example.net>
In reply to#56707

On Sun, 7 Jul 2024, Borax Man wrote:

>> The thing is... with capitalism and free markets, people will soon earn
>> capital. Hong Kong used to be a backwards island, they started with sweat
>> shops and unregulated capitalism, and finished by becoming the worlds
>> financial center with the highest salaries in the world (before china took
>> over). What made that possible was unregulated capitalism, since the
>> backwards island could then bootstrap itself to wealth within a few
>> generations.
>>
>> More about that in Johan Norbergs in defense of global capitalism, and the
>> capitalist manifesto, if you are interested.
>>
>> As for the young, they are sold lies, and since they are young and lack
>> life experience, it is of course a nicer lie that the government will give
>> them everything, without having to work for it, than manning up and go to
>> work.
>> --8323328-1362738420-1720262525=:17764--
>
>
> Well, the thing is we HAVE Capitalism and Free Markets and Capital is
> being accumulated by the few.  Now if you are going to use that "this is
> not true Free Markets", then sorry, then you sound like all the
> Communists who say that Russia and China and North Korea are "not true
> Communism".  If your ideology can only ever work in an utterly pure
> form, its faulty, because that pure form will never be realised in
> practice.

I will use the "this is not free markets". Just go to heritage
foundation and sort countries based on size of governments. In the west,
the governments are _huge_, the regulatory burden is _huge_, politicians
decide which companies will be big or not since governments are enormous
actors on the markets.

Actually, what you are complaining about is socialism with some markets
added on the side. That is why your children have the future ahead of
them that you describe.

Due to high taxes, they cannot save their way to becoming millionaires.
Companies use the government (either with willing or unwilling
politicians) to give themselves the ultimate edge. Politicians get rich
by doing that and getting board seats in return.

I'm sorry, but we have no free markets in the western world, and we are
seeing the results. If you think I claim "not true communism" then I do
not think it is profitable to continue this discussion, because your
definition of free markets and my definition are not even remotely
close, so we would just talk past each other.

> I've spend enough time believing in, buying, reading these arguments,
> they don't work, IN PRACTICE.  There is something to be said by letting
> entrepreneurs be entrepreneurs, and there is something to be said by
> letting creative people be creative, yes, but the current system is
> based on Capital, not creativity and inventiveness.  You earn more money
> monopolising houses than actually working.

No, the current system is based on government, and government control of
capital. When the government spending is 30% or 40% or 60% of the GDP,
you don't have a free market, you have the government deciding who the
millionaire will be, with some iron willed and smart entrepreneurs
playing the game in the free small pockets that remain.

> I'm not buying these lies anymore.  I have a "good job", that I worked
> damn hard to achieve, a managerial position, yet am worse off, while I
> watch rent-seekers get everything.  I never took benefits, I did
> everything right.  Screw that.

The lie I do not buy is that the government will fix everything. I see
politicians becoming richer and richer, I see regulations becoming more,
I see more and more government contracts being awarded to corporates who
are in bed with the government.

As I said, this is not my definition of free markets, this is my
definition of early stage socialism. And since this, as per your
message, seems to be what you mean with free markets, we will just talk
past each other.

What I do find interesting though, is that we see a lot of the same
problems, but we land in dramatically different solutions.

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