Re: printer purchases

From	Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: printer purchases
Date	2025-08-10 03:19 +0000
Organization	none-at-all
Message-ID	<slrn109g3ue.ao5.spamtrap42@one.localnet> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <mfceqjF87m2U2@mid.individual.net> <106s795$15ddn$1@news1.tnib.de> <10763rd$10n9v$5@dont-email.me> <slrn109dhad.9c6.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <wwv34a07w33.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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On 2025-08-09, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> writes:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how
>>> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
>>> accepting PDF files or something ...
>>
>> At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
>> rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
>> rasterized image to the printer.  Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
>> earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
>> take PS or PCL).
>
> https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/
>
> The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no
> separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are
> advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side
> rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think
> client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.
>
>> Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
>> first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
>> rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
>> could shovel the paper.  Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
>> around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
>> seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages.  Printing a 30-page
>> credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.
>
> 20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
> printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
> at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
> whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
> light on it.

Most of what I'm printing is not complex.  I see the delay on
something as simple as a receipt for a payment on a utility
company's website.  The amount of delay does not seem to be
highly dependent on the complexity of the page in question.

I don't know which driverless variant is in use.  In fact, I
didn't know there were different variants.  When I installed
Daedalus, I set up the print queues via the CUPS port 631 web
GUI.

During the ~15 seconds waiting for the page, xload doesn't report
a noticeable jump in CPU use.  The Noctua fans usually ramp up
audibly in response to a few seconds of a single CPU-bound
process (but nothing like for 16 CPU-bound processes), and they
don't ramp up while waiting for a page to print.  The symptoms
seem to indicate that (most of) the delay is sending the
rasterized image over 100Mb/s ethernet to the printer.  In
2000-2003, a representative page might have 50KB of PS/PCL but
more than several MB (or tens/hundreds of MB depending on the
transfer format) of rasterized bits--especially if the printer's
network stack is sluggish.

Come to think of it, I could shed some light by running dstat
while waiting for a page to print.  I'll try to do that if I get
an opportunity.  Thanks for the idea.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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printer purchases Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-08-03 03:49 -0400
  Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-03 04:10 -0400
    Re: printer purchases Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-08-03 18:51 +0000
    Re: printer purchases Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-08-05 16:57 +1000
      Re: printer purchases Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:26 +0100
        Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 10:10 +0100
          Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-06 20:01 +0000
          Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 22:10 +0000
            Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 00:05 +0000
              Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-08 22:54 -0400
                Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 04:27 +0000
                Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-09 01:37 -0400
                Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 21:00 +0000
              Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 11:03 +0100
                Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 21:12 +0000
                Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 10:19 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-10 01:59 +0000
  Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 05:36 +0000
    Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-04 09:15 +0200
    Re: printer purchases Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 09:16 +0100
      Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 11:17 +0100
      Re: printer purchases Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-04 13:58 +0100
        Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 19:03 +0100
      Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-04 19:04 +0000
    Re: printer purchases "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-04 12:40 +0200
      Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 11:50 +0100
        Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-04 15:12 +0200
          Re: printer purchases "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-04 20:27 +0200
            Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 08:10 +0200
              Re: printer purchases "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-05 12:26 +0200
              Re: printer purchases Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:59 -0600
                Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 15:12 +0200
                Re: printer purchases "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-06 12:38 +0200
              Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:15 +0000
          Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-04 19:09 +0000
            Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 08:10 +0200
              Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:13 +0000
                Re: printer purchases Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-08-09 03:49 +0000
                Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 04:36 +0000
                Re: printer purchases Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 09:12 +0100
                Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 11:08 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-08-10 03:19 +0000
                Re: printer purchases Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 09:43 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 09:45 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-09 11:31 +0200
          Re: printer purchases not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-05 09:15 +1000
            Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 08:12 +0200
              Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-05 03:48 -0400
                Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 11:23 +0200
                Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 10:49 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:19 +0000
                Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-05 19:29 +0000
              Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 10:42 +0100
                Re: printer purchases Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 15:14 +0200
                Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 14:54 +0100
                Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-05 19:38 -0400
            Re: printer purchases c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-05 03:45 -0400
              Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 10:54 +0100
              Re: printer purchases not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-06 08:20 +1000
                Re: printer purchases Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 00:01 +0100
      Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 22:06 +0000
        Re: printer purchases Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:17 +0100
          Re: printer purchases Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:33 +0100
          Re: printer purchases The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 11:00 +0100
            Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 21:02 +0000
        Re: printer purchases Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 14:04 +0000
          Re: printer purchases rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 21:15 +0000
          Re: printer purchases Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-10 01:56 +0000

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